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Soulblight Gravelords News, Rumours and Speculation


Neil Arthur Hotep

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Since LoBlood is skeleton heavy, we might even see some details on changes to the deathrattle unit warscrolls.  Wight Kings might get a bit of a push what with the fancy new model.  Skeleton Warriors in particular are supposed to be dramatically different from their current rules (no bonus attacks, heal models when they activate in combat - but only if they've already taken damage that same phase, possibly better armor save, etc).  It'd be nice to get some confirmation on what they'll look like now.

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Seeing as this is a speculation thread too, what do we think on the mounted vampire lord option - is it staying or going? 

Technically the Mannfred model exists, however I don't see it on GW site anymore. 

But perhaps GW expects us to kitbash a mounted vampire lord from the Blood Knight box? 

What do you think?

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Any chance the Crimson Court heroes can be played separately, or are we still thinking they will be a single unit? After seeing Prince Duvalle's warscroll card on Sunday's pre-order preview, I'm optimistic for 4 separate characters instead of one single unit. But I'll take Prince Duvalle and 3 vampire bodyguard unit as well. And I guess worse case scenario, I have 4 really nicely sculpted generic vampire lords to add to my army. 

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Just now, Aren73 said:

Seeing as this is a speculation thread too, what do we think on the mounted vampire lord option - is it staying or going? 

I think the option stays, and GW implies you should convert it out of the blood knight box for the time being, then releases a mounted vamp lord the next time the faction gets updated... though we're not lumineth so I'm inclined to think that might be a while.

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So what's people's opinions of the new Vengorian vampire-monster? I think its a cool figure, but its anatomically strange, and doesn't quite sit right with me. I may separate the vampire half from the giant bat thing, add a bat head (looking at you fell bats bits) to the lower half, some armored legs to the vampire half and resculpt it as a mounted vampire on Vengorian. 

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4 minutes ago, Gothmaug said:

Any chance the Crimson Court heroes can be played separately, or are we still thinking they will be a single unit? After seeing Prince Duvalle's warscroll card on Sunday's pre-order preview, I'm optimistic for 4 separate characters instead of one single unit. But I'll take Prince Duvalle and 3 vampire bodyguard unit as well. And I guess worse case scenario, I have 4 really nicely sculpted generic vampire lords to add to my army. 

their official rules will almost certainly require you to buy them as a batch set, though I expect they'll function as four separate heroes on the table.

That said, I don't think anyone will stop you from running a couple of them as generic vampire lords.  No one gets mad, or even notices, if you swap out some thorns of the briar queen for generic chainrasps, or grymwatch for crypt ghoul champs and courtiers, or sepuchral guard for skeletons.

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3 minutes ago, Aren73 said:

Seeing as this is a speculation thread too, what do we think on the mounted vampire lord option - is it staying or going? 

Technically the Mannfred model exists, however I don't see it on GW site anymore. 

But perhaps GW expects us to kitbash a mounted vampire lord from the Blood Knight box? 

What do you think?

I think that option might be gone but the regular vampire lord might be fast enough to keep up with cavalry and fly.

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2 minutes ago, Sception said:

I think the option stays, and GW implies you should convert it out of the blood knight box for the time being, then releases a mounted vamp lord the next time the faction gets updated... though we're not lumineth so I'm inclined to think that might be a while.

I made a really nice vampire lord on nightmare conversion a few years back using a mount from the dreadblade harrow, and a vampiress from the Coven Throne. She sits sidesaddle on the mount and the ghostly wisps on the horse work really well when painted to look like flames befitting a nightmare. 

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I really doubt they're going to pull the option for a mounted lord just as they're finally releasing plastic blood knights that would want to run alongside one.  That would be a feel bad that could actually cut into blood knight sales, and for what, to stop people from proxying a third party vamp hero in home games - something they can do anyway since 'vampire on a horse' isn't even remotely protectable under any IP laws?  They'll gain more sales from people buying a whole extra blood knight kit just to convert a vamp lord they can play in GW stores if they keep the option then they'd lose from home gamers buying a 3rd party hero who wouldn't have have don't that anyway.

And they can always bring back the old mannfred model in a marked up 'made to order' or doubly marked up 'last chance to buy' scheme.

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6 minutes ago, Aren73 said:

Seeing as this is a speculation thread too, what do we think on the mounted vampire lord option - is it staying or going? 

Technically the Mannfred model exists, however I don't see it on GW site anymore. 

But perhaps GW expects us to kitbash a mounted vampire lord from the Blood Knight box? 

What do you think?

I'm concerned that the winged version and the mounted version may be gone. I hope I'm wrong, because I would like a minor support Hero to support some Blood Knights. Would be a shame if the only mounted option was a Wight King (other than a VLoZD). The other option that would be amazing is if the unit leader for Blood Knights could issue command abilities and Deathly Minions aura (like OBR Hekatos). There may be an allegiance ability or general Gravelords ability that allows Kastellan's to do this.

2 minutes ago, Sception said:

their official rules will almost certainly require you to buy them as a batch set, though I expect they'll function as four separate heroes on the table.

That said, I don't think anyone will stop you from running a couple of them as generic vampire lords.  No one gets mad, or even notices, if you swap out some thorns of the briar queen for generic chainrasps, or grymwatch for regular crypt ghoul champs and courtiers, or sepuchral guard for regular skeletons.

I 100% expect them to have to be taken all together but act independently. My original plan was to use these as Vamp Lords, however the new Vamp Lord on foot appears to be on a 40mm base as opposed to 32, which is what the warband is on.

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What I was going to suggest actually is that we could get groups of 5 people together, to split a BK kit between them so that they all get to make a mounted vampire lord without having to pay for the whole box and be stuck with an awkward 4 Blood Knights. 

Could do it through either thread or on FB, whatever works. Sound like something people would be willing to do? 

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2 minutes ago, Aren73 said:

What I was going to suggest actually is that we could get groups of 5 people together, to split a BK kit between them so that they all get to make a mounted vampire lord without having to pay for the whole box and be stuck with an awkward 4 Blood Knights. 

Could do it through either thread or on FB, whatever works. Sound like something people would be willing to do? 

Even if people are able to organize well enough to split boxes 5 ways for lords, that's still going to be more sales gained by keeping the option than they'd lose that way, especially since, again, nothing stops them from putting the mannfred model back up on the store whenever they want.  I know GW can be dumb sometimes, but I'll honestly be surprised if they remove the mounted vamp lord option.

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2 minutes ago, Sception said:

Even if people are able to organize well enough to split boxes 5 ways for lords, that's still going to be more sales gained by keeping the option than they'd lose that way, especially since, again, nothing stops them from putting the mannfred model back up on the store whenever they want.  I know GW can be dumb sometimes, but I'll honestly be surprised if they remove the mounted vamp lord option.

Haha I meant that more as a "I'm up for doing this pro-hobby-community thing together" than "This is a reason why GW sales will be lower" xD

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If it doesn’t have a model it won’t be in the book . This is a model sales company . With 3rd around the corner - it’s highly likely unit champions ( our Kastellans) will be able to use command abilities . 

Edited by Lich King
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Seeing how this is a speculation thread: 

1) Vampire lords will be based around the single real model for a non-named vampire they made in plastic: the vampire lord will most likely be nerfed significantly, but I wouldn't trust GW to adjust the points cost accordingly. 

2) I'm reading a lot of rules previews that are not that different from what they used to be, or new sub-factions that are sidegrades from the old subfactions. 

3) I'm reading rules of the strongest/most reliable LoN abiltity being replaced by random dice rolls for half the effect it used to be. 

And the brutal assessment is: we drew bin guy to re-write the LoN book.

sorry if this bursts the excitement you might have for this new book... But I'm really not that optimistic that the issues facing the old LoN are in any way addressed with these small rules previews. I'm hoping to be proved wrong however.  

Edited by Elmir
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37 minutes ago, Gothmaug said:

So what's people's opinions of the new Vengorian vampire-monster? I think its a cool figure, but its anatomically strange, and doesn't quite sit right with me. I may separate the vampire half from the giant bat thing, add a bat head (looking at you fell bats bits) to the lower half, some armored legs to the vampire half and resculpt it as a mounted vampire on Vengorian. 

Add the head of Mannfred‘s Mount to the main body and maybe make a Vampirtaurus out of the upper half and a Blood Knight Nightmare

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22 minutes ago, BaylorCorvette said:

I 100% expect them to have to be taken all together but act independently. My original plan was to use these as Vamp Lords, however the new Vamp Lord on foot appears to be on a 40mm base as opposed to 32, which is what the warband is on.

A bit annoying if they've changed the vamp lord base size, especially as the new one really looks like it could have stood on a smaller base just fine.  That said, if you still want to run the crimson court as regular vamp lords, re-basing is easy enough.  Everybody else is about to have to do it with all their existing vamp lords.  3rd party adapters are probably the best option here.  There's several to choose from, including simple drop in models that would work fine for gaming purposes and wouldn't involve any permanent glueing, in case you ever want to use them as the actual crimson court.

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6 minutes ago, Elmir said:

Seeing how this is a speculation thread: 

1) Vampire lords will be based around the single real model for a non-named vampire they made in plastic: the vampire lord will most likely be nerfed significantly, but I wouldn't trust GW to adjust the points cost accordingly. 

2) I'm reading a lot of rules previews that are not that different from what they used to be, or new sub-factions that are sidegrades from the old subfactions. 

3) I'm reading rules of the strongest/most reliable LoN abiltity being replaced by random dice rolls for half the effect it used to be. 

And the brutal assessment is: we drew bin guy to re-write the LoN book.

sorry if this bursts the excitement you might have for this new book... But I'm really not that optimistic that the issues facing the old LoN are in any way addressed with these small rules previews. I'm hoping to be proved wrong however.  

I think this is a bit pessimistic. Though you're right on with the sidegrades for subfactions, I agree there. 

When it comes to the LoN gravesite ability - I see it as a good thing. Yeah it's less reliable and not as good, but perhaps the faction will rely less on it, maybe the warscrolls or abilities will be buffed? After all, the Blood Knight Nightmare steeds did get 1 extra attack!

Nah in all seriousness though, the warscrolls and warscroll abilities that we have seen have all been buffs (albeit only slight ones in some instances). I don't expect any warscroll to be nerfed, in fact I expect to see small to medium buffs on most warscrolls, with one or two seeing major power increase. 

 

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2 minutes ago, Aren73 said:

I think this is a bit pessimistic. Though you're right on with the sidegrades for subfactions, I agree there. 

When it comes to the LoN gravesite ability - I see it as a good thing. Yeah it's less reliable and not as good, but perhaps the faction will rely less on it, maybe the warscrolls or abilities will be buffed? After all, the Blood Knight Nightmare steeds did get 1 extra attack!

Nah in all seriousness though, the warscrolls and warscroll abilities that we have seen have all been buffs (albeit only slight ones in some instances). I don't expect any warscroll to be nerfed, in fact I expect to see small to medium buffs on most warscrolls, with one or two seeing major power increase. 
 

I'm really hoping you are right, because removing the most solid ability an army had in the past without any real compensation, is never a positive thing. It leaves armies with a mono-build that TRIES to not get obliterated by "real armies" in the very near future. 

Sylvaneth and their wild woods anybody?

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19 minutes ago, Elmir said:

And the brutal assessment is: we drew bin guy to re-write the LoN book.

sorry if this burst the excitement you might have for this new book... 

I mean sure, but I at least had assumed that going in, and honestly the stuff we've seen so far (retreat-and-charge blood knights, assuming that's how they're actually going to work, immune-to-normal-melee mannfred) are significantly nicer that what I had expected from the bin guy.

Also, I kind of feel the problems with the existing legions rules are a bit overstated.

...

Frankly, while I might cheer at this or boo at that, I'm not honestly terribly concerned with GW getting the rules aspect of the faction right with this release.  To me, the more important part is the rebranding of the lore and refreshing of the model line.  Legions was cool, but cast too wide a net, while hanging too much of its narrative on the motives and ambitions of just Nagash, and had a ceiling on identity and flavor as a result.  The return to the Vampire Counts focus allows for a much stronger personality, particularly with the new bloodlines which, while I might quibble about their rules implementation, imo at least seem to have solid thematic & narrative legs, which, again, imo, was the most important thing to get right with this rebrand.

At least, alongside the model refresh, which imo rightly focused more on updating the aging elements of the existing range, and filling out the roster of personalities for the new bloodlines, than on adding a bunch of wild new stuff.  New stuff would have been cool, sure, and maybe the skeleton warriors could have waited for new models until they were ready to do new grave guard as well, but I personally wouldn't trade the new zombies, blood knights, or fell bats models  for other new units.

As for rules, yeah, on the aggregate we're probably going to end up with a weaker book than the already 40% win rate Legions.  But if they nail the rest I can live with that.  Faction books come and go, but the Faction's lore, personality, and look, that's what draws in players & sparks imagination and inspires future rules writers to do better and go further.  With the way the narrative had been going, I wasn't even sure that vampires and necromancers and plain old skeletons and zombies were even going to stick around in AoS long term.  With this release, they're here to stay.

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Just an FYI, at risk of being gushy.... this thread has been so lush over the last month or so. Something I love to contribute to despite my combative rants, occasional toxic fanboy nature burning a few bridges and ruffling a few feathers. 

I moved to Sweden end of 2019, just before the plague. Moved away from a great local AoS community in Thanet, Kent and have been missing it a shed load, especially in the last year. There is a decent scene here in Southern sweden, but covid... Been playing a ton of TTS, which whilst nice sometimes feels like a bit of a cold transaction, the bants just ain’t the same. 

Anywhoo, should the occasion arise and I finally get mothertrucking vaccinated, I’m all about a trip back to UK for a tournie with this new SBGL goodness and hopefully if any of you bloodsucking vamps are about poss share a pint or twelve with you.

I’m actually not that much of a see u next Tuesday in real life, lol.

So hype for this weekends preorder!

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Blood knight aren't allowed to run and charge though, just because they circumvent  the rules for not being allowed to move across models during a normal move...

Any normal move starting within 3" of an enemy is considered a retreat:

 image.png.06fae011e023b5ebc1751dbc517fb1eb.png

People are just intuitively assuming normal move means anything different than a move made in the movement phase... And that's quite clear on page 4 of the rulebook. 

image.png.1b245f670aad9f579d3c70447e6f12d4.png

Additionally, a normal move cannot end within 3" of an  enemy, so riding across a unit will be difficult at best, and you cannot move across any models is 3+ wounds, so no... you can't ride down characters hiding in the back. 

For some reason, the hype-bug has gotten into people's head so badly that they are misreading even the most basic rules spelled out loud and clear in the BRB...

And I don't consider that a success at all. It was already a fairly weak army... and it seems to be getting even weaker despite the warhammer community team doing it's best to hype it up. I already have a death army that only looks pretty on a shelf with my nighthaunt... Adding some more models next to that isn't exactly what I had hoped for. 

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29 minutes ago, Elmir said:

Seeing how this is a speculation thread: 

1) Vampire lords will be based around the single real model for a non-named vampire they made in plastic: the vampire lord will most likely be nerfed significantly, but I wouldn't trust GW to adjust the points cost accordingly. 

2) I'm reading a lot of rules previews that are not that different from what they used to be, or new sub-factions that are sidegrades from the old subfactions. 

3) I'm reading rules of the strongest/most reliable LoN abiltity being replaced by random dice rolls for half the effect it used to be. 

And the brutal assessment is: we drew bin guy to re-write the LoN book.

sorry if this bursts the excitement you might have for this new book... But I'm really not that optimistic that the issues facing the old LoN are in any way addressed with these small rules previews. I'm hoping to be proved wrong however.  

I have to say, I wholeheartedly disagree.

(a) I don’t buy this false dichotomy, it ain’t that simplistic. 
 

(b) the rules I HAVE SEEN must be different to the ones you’ve been looking at? Cos to my primitive reptilians eyes, the look to be a significant improvement on where we were. 
 

(c) generally speaking, the broken books have been a complete wet ******. They are OP out the gates, present the most NPE, dominate the field and usually end up being the least dynamic in terms of builds cos there is almost always an obvious path to go down which everyone does.

 

(d) I happen to like it when I see a new book and it doesn’t scream broken. I’m looking for flavourful, thematic, impactful rules which embrace the lore and seem inkeeping with the new model range.

 

So, yeah. I get the HWG has made a thing about sin and bin guy, but it’s really far more nuanced than that, as believe it or most most things are... it just suits ranty threads, podcasts and social media to push these simplistic black and white ITS GREAT VS ITS TERRIBLE.

yeahzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

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