Soulblight Gravelords News, Rumours and Speculation

[Lich King]

Morghasts are still my favorite models GW has ever done,they need to be at least ally-able.

[Doko]

Im a bit sad seeing as the blood knigths are 90% the same warscroll than olds.

Only shield changed to a flat +1 save added in base scroll

New move trick

Lost the auto 6" charge for a pretty useless reroll the 6++

 

Also the new dinasty seems useless,deep strike a cavalry unit with 10" move? Useless,a deep strike for zombies or skeletons would be cool and we lost the +1 attack to vampires for this?

 

Overall i think old bk in neferata dinasty were stronger than news

Edited May 12, 2021 by Doko

[Malakithe]

The Blood Knight profile is on par with other cav units I think. It will be the points costs that separate them. 180-200 will be fine I think but more then that and they wont be playable

[Loft]

Mobility wise it's average for them, true. But don't forget that a huge benefit of deepstriking is keeping key units off the table until your opponent's shooting and magic phases are done and/or you've chewed through some of their units, essentially safeguarding them and ensuring a full strength unit in later turns. As Death is vulnerable to shooting, I suspect this will come in pretty useful.  

29 minutes ago, Doko said:

Im a bit sad seeing as the blood knigths are 90% the same warscroll than olds.

Only shield changed to a flat +1 save added in base scroll

New move trick

Lost the auto 6" charge for a pretty useless reroll the 6++

 

Also the new dinasty seems useless,deep strike a cavalry unit with 10" move? Useless,a deep strike for zombies or skeletons would be cool and we lost the +1 attack to vampires for this?

 

Overall i think old bk in neferata dinasty were stronger than news

 

[vaector]

I was taking a second look at the tokens that are coming with the warscroll cards and there are at least 3 gravesite tokens. Do these generally come with extra tokens in the case you lose them or something? If not, that seems to indicate to me that there will be some command trait/ability to get an additional 1-2.

[RocketPropelledGrenade]

1 hour ago, vaector said:

I was taking a second look at the tokens that are coming with the warscroll cards and there are at least 3 gravesite tokens. Do these generally come with extra tokens in the case you lose them or something? If not, that seems to indicate to me that there will be some command trait/ability to get an additional 1-2.

The only one I've gotten felt like it came with far too few of most tokens for practical use, so I suspect you could be right.

[EMMachine]

2 hours ago, vaector said:

I was taking a second look at the tokens that are coming with the warscroll cards and there are at least 3 gravesite tokens. Do these generally come with extra tokens in the case you lose them or something? If not, that seems to indicate to me that there will be some command trait/ability to get an additional 1-2.

The Rules of Legions of Nagash had 4 gravesites. So if their are only 3 in the Tokenset it is possible that Gravesites are reduced from 4 to 3 (if their isn't a 4th one hidden behind the card).

[Tali182]

3 minutes ago, EMMachine said:

The Rules of Legions of Nagash had 4 gravesites. So if their are only 3 in the Tokenset it is possible that Gravesites are reduced from 4 to 3 (if their isn't a 4th one hidden behind the card).

I think they said in an article it is 2 now as a base rule, So I think he is speculating there will be ways to add more.

[Beliman]

6 hours ago, Malakithe said:

The Blood Knight profile is on par with other cav units I think. It will be the points costs that separate them. 180-200 will be fine I think but more then that and they wont be playable

I think that I will even take them at 220-240 points. And remember that we still need to read the whole book to find synergies!

Their defense is improved to 3+ base saves, that means that any spell that gives ethereal (Dark Mist for example) is going to be awesome on them. And 6++ with rerolls 1s with healing 1D3 if they kill any minion ( 67% that any injured horse can be fully healed) makes them a lot better. 

Another thing to play with is that the Riders of Ruin has two abilities:

1. Make a normal move in melee range (and can pass over < 3wounds models).
2. Do mortal wounds after this unit makes a normal move over enemy units (not just point 1).

Give them "fly" (dark mist again!) and they can do 1D3 mortal wounds to anyone (even monsters and heroes), and if "run" is still considered a normal move (16" movement is not that bad) that means that even one horse alone can do some cheap dmg too!
And that's without knowing what is going to change with 3.0, because if retreat is not a "normal move anymore" means that they are going to charge after this not-retreat too!

Their dmg is really nice (they were awesome before) and if Legion of Blood and Vampire lords are going to still have +1atk, I think they are going to punch a lot of faces... (hope that's not the case, we don't need more lethality). 

And let's be honest, ambush is always awesome!! And that's without knowing all other abilities that can interact with them.

Edit:
I want to add that Kavalos Deathriders (180p) do half the blood knights dmg and Vanari Dawnriders (130p) charging to 1 wound enemy units (and power of hysh on) do less dmg and they are far behind of Blood Knights thougness.

Edited May 12, 2021 by Beliman

[Ghoooouls]

5 hours ago, Doko said:

Im a bit sad seeing as the blood knigths are 90% the same warscroll than olds.

Only shield changed to a flat +1 save added in base scroll

New move trick

Lost the auto 6" charge for a pretty useless reroll the 6++

 

Also the new dinasty seems useless,deep strike a cavalry unit with 10" move? Useless,a deep strike for zombies or skeletons would be cool and we lost the +1 attack to vampires for this?

 

Overall i think old bk in neferata dinasty were stronger than news

Charge bonus changed from D3 to flat 2, save profile increased rather than +1 to their save is big, 2+ save in cover, ways of making them ethereal etc. Fly over units when they retreat and do d3 mortals to ALL the units they move over, on top of the horses getting an extra attack, the hunger healing d3 instead of 1 and all the other possible rules.

It's going to be relatively easy to get blood knights to damage 3 and/or 4 wounds each with +2 to run and charge (riders of ruin running/flying 18 inches over enemies and doing d3 to them all will be awesome), combine that with the 3+ save and healing d3 they are amazing.

Remember we are also yet to see other allegiance stuff, and the abilities they get from killing things is for ALL vampires, not just blood knights.

Edited May 12, 2021 by Ghoooouls

[warhammernerd]

20 minutes ago, Ghoooouls said:

Charge bonus changed from D3 to flat 2, save profile increased rather than +1 to their save is big, 2+ save in cover, ways of making them ethereal etc. Fly over units when they retreat and do d3 mortals to ALL the units they move over, on top of the horses getting an extra attack, the hunger healing d3 instead of 1 and all the other possible rules.

It's going to be relatively easy to get blood knights to damage 3 and/or 4 wounds each, combine that with the 3+ save and healing d3 they are amazing.

Remember we are also yet to see other allegiance stuff, and the abilities they get from killing things is for ALL vampires, not just blood knights.

This.

The comparison is night and day. They are WAY better. 

The criticism amounts too, they aren’t rend -2, the musician 6” charge has gone and they increased the base size.

In all other regards they improved their warscrolls right across the board. And just to once again echo what’s been said repeatedly, we have zero idea of changes to generic battalion interactions, core rules, board size, (rumoured) terrain increase or battleplans. On top of which and more importantly we still know very little other than the positive indicators yesterday about interactions with sun-factions, hero’s, spells, command abilities, artefacts.

Sorry if it comes across as beating down on criticism, it’s not my intent. But I’m struggling to see what exactly people consider a let down about this unit?

I mean look at the old warscroll? They were garbage. The only thing they had going for them was Swift Death and the occasion where did get a charge off and the wound rolls spiked. The reality was, the unit was target number 1 and was frequently neutered by being tagged. They sucked in protracted combat, we’re very hard to heal and against anything with rend they went down like a sack of hot brown

Now, they are tanky. Very hard to pin. Heal well. Better in protracted combat. Able to permanently buff themselves in certain sub factions (they can get 4 wounds each and an extra point of damage!).

All of which is aside from the fact that the models are a stupendous improvement. 

Edited May 12, 2021 by warhammernerd

[Honk]

The first glance the rules really look like LoN 2.0 with an Soulblight emphasis...

the battleline adjustments are stolen right from FEC (even the Tg/Zd-dynastie) nice since I just bought my 4th gheisty for gristlegore 😇

the suck ability xyz out of crushed foe mechanic sounds interesting, the bloodknights are a bit old a bit new, but sound promising.

the endless legion rule already screams faq, could be brutal or could be wet toiletpaper. The whole army screams kill a unit, so opponents with msu might get picked apart, while big blocks prevent or level up and re-summoning.

compared to the ruminant cheeselords, it looks like more versatility (several legions and emphasis) and not as over the top... although a fully buffed up unit of 10/15 remaining knights in Round three, you opponent might beg to differ

[Liquidsteel]

I'm hopeful, with the amount of named characters we have, that the trend of "this unit is counted as the General in addition" continues.

It would allow you to take Mannfred, Vhordrai and still get use out of a command trait for a regular foot vamp or whatever.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

18 minutes ago, warhammernerd said:

This.

The comparison is night and day. They are WAY better. 

The criticism amounts too, they aren’t rend -2, the musician 6” charge has gone and they increased the base size.

In all other regards they improved their warscrolls right across the board. And just to once again echo what’s been said repeatedly, we have zero idea of changes to generic battalion interactions, core rules, board size, (rumoured) terrain increase or battleplans. On top of which and more importantly we still know very little other than the positive indicators yesterday about interactions with sun-factions, hero’s, spells, command abilities, artefacts.

Sorry if it comes across as beating down on criticism, it’s not my intent. But I’m struggling to see what exactly people consider a let down about this unit?

I mean look at the old warscroll? They were garbage. The only thing they had going for them was Swift Death and the occasion where did get a charge off and the wound rolls spiked. The reality was, the unit was target number 1 and was frequently neutered by being tagged. They sucked in protracted combat, we’re very hard to heal and against anything with rend they went down like a sack of hot brown

Now, they are tanky. Very hard to pin. Heal well. Better in protracted combat. Able to permanently buff themselves in certain sub factions (they can get 4 wounds each and an extra point of damage!).

All of which is aside from the fact that the models are a stupendous improvement.

I think it's partially anchoring bias: Blood Knights could auto-charge 6" before, and that was strong and was partially how people strategized around them. So it makes people think "Oh, my old strategies will not work anymore now, that's a nerf". When in reality, the new Blood Knights easily have a lot more interesting strategic applications now. For example, you might actually see them outside Legion of Blood or Soulblight armies. One min-size unit of Blood Knights is a great self-sufficient harrassment unit that can go into any list. They are durable, fairly mobile and can't be chaffed for long. Their damage is good too, at ~10 on the charge against a 4+ save, so enough to wipe other min-size units as a rule.

However, easily their biggest buff is that you can actually afford their models now.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

14 minutes ago, Liquidsteel said:

I'm hopeful, with the amount of named characters we have, that the trend of "this unit is counted as the General in addition" continues.

It would allow you to take Mannfred, Vhordrai and still get use out of a command trait for a regular foot vamp or whatever.

Since this is already announced for Vrykos, I think chances are good that GW is mindful of this problem this time around. I think it could well be that Mannfred, Neferata, Vhordrai and Lauka Vai become generals in addition in their own subfactions. I definitely don't see them making the mistake of requiring mortarchs to be generals in their own legion like in LoN again. All that did was disincentivize you from actually running these characters in their own sub-allegiance.

[Aren73]

I think there is a subset of us who were expecting GW to make vampires absolute murder machines in this book. 

I don't think that's unreasonable - look at the glow up high elves got by becoming Lumineth. 

It seems however that vampires remain at "alright" damage but are cheap enough that you can field plenty of them. 

So for example, I wouldn't take 5 Blood Knights to do the work anymore, instead I'd probably have to take 10 for them to be the super scary hammer unit. Or even 15.

Though...that large base and 1" range do pose a problem for larger units of them...

I dunno, I'm excited to see what buffs they can get from what sources. Hopefully mounted vampire lords are still a thing (poor now nameless Manfred).

[kozokus]

Kharadron players reading this thread.

Edited May 12, 2021 by kozokus

[JackStreicher]

46 minutes ago, Aren73 said:

I think there is a subset of us who were expecting GW to make vampires absolute murder machines in this book. 

I don't think that's unreasonable - look at the glow up high elves got by becoming Lumineth. 

It seems however that vampires remain at "alright" damage but are cheap enough that you can field plenty of them. 

So for example, I wouldn't take 5 Blood Knights to do the work anymore, instead I'd probably have to take 10 for them to be the super scary hammer unit. Or even 15.

Though...that large base and 1" range do pose a problem for larger units of them...

I dunno, I'm excited to see what buffs they can get from what sources. Hopefully mounted vampire lords are still a thing (poor now nameless Manfred).

Imo fielding units of 5s will be the way to go: You can abuse the Mortal Wound mechanic more and you get +1 attack in each unit for the Castellant. Also the 1" Range screams "Please take me only in minumum size!" (it's frustrating to have a big, choppy Block of Knights of which 3 Models can actually strike....).
The range issue combined with the big base is what makes Chaos Knights lackluster for example (even with lances imo)

The Weird part about the new Blood Knights however is that they received new Weapons (maces) which aren't even mentioned (It's neither a lance, nor a blade). So the rules were (possibly) written before the Models were finished?

Edited May 12, 2021 by JackStreicher
spelling

[Aren73]

4 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

Imo fielding units of 5s will be the way to go: You can abuse the Mortal Wound mechanic more and you get +1 attack in each unit for the Castellant. Also the 1" Range screams "Please take me only in minumum size!" (it's frustrating to have a big, choppy Block of Knights of which 3 Models can actually strike....).
The range issue combined with the big base is what makes Chaos Knights lackluster for example (even with lances imo)

That does sound reasonable.

In which case though, what will be our answer to tough, heavily armoured units? It's looking like it won't be Blood Knights, at least not in units of 5 when they seem to be most effective. 

Will the Terrorgheist become a must take, or a Vengorian Lord? 

[El Syf]

5 minutes ago, Aren73 said:

That does sound reasonable.

In which case though, what will be our answer to tough, heavily armoured units? It's looking like it won't be Blood Knights, at least not in units of 5 when they seem to be most effective. 

Will the Terrorgheist become a must take, or a Vengorian Lord? 

Morghasts!

[pixieproxy]

Really hoping we some Vengorian lord stats today myself, really hoping either they or Lauka Vai are good

[Aren73]

5 minutes ago, El Syf said:

Morghasts!

Nope, not unless you're running the Nagash overfaction. 

They're not a Soulblight Gravelords unit, we need a unit from our own book to be able to deal with tough threats. 

[pixieproxy]

Maybe fell bats are so big now because they're more murderous? One can only hope >.>

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

12 minutes ago, Aren73 said:

That does sound reasonable.

In which case though, what will be our answer to tough, heavily armoured units? It's looking like it won't be Blood Knights, at least not in units of 5 when they seem to be most effective. 

Will the Terrorgheist become a must take, or a Vengorian Lord? 

If our magic is still good, maybe it's mortal wounds.

Otherwise, rend -1 hammers can muscle past 3+ saves no problem when buffed. Maybe Grave Guard get mortal wounds on wound, if so they will be can openers.

8 minutes ago, El Syf said:

Morghasts!

According to that one leak they are probably not in the book anymore, thought.

[Aren73]

7 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

If our magic is still good, maybe it's mortal wounds.

Otherwise, rend -1 hammers can muscle past 3+ saves no problem when buffed. Maybe Grave Guard get mortal wounds on wound, if so they will be can openers.

According to that one leak they are probably not in the book anymore, thought.

I'm worried about Leviadons and Bastiladons here really. 

I am hopeful that our mortal wound output is good, though I hope it's not all based on spells - you should be able to run Soulblight without a heavy spell focus. 

Grave guard with mortal wounds sound good though, or those super powerful, armour piercing fell bats