Soulblight Gravelords News, Rumours and Speculation

[BrotherTalarian]

I don’t think there are many, if any negative may sayers? 
 

Interpretation might be off because internet/text 

I for one am super excited.

However there’s nothing wrong for people to voice their opinion on what they think it should be, or how they might be disappointed? 
 

at the same time there’s no issue of people saying it’s great. 
 

Maybe I’m not reading between the lines very well, but I think we’re on the same page here.

 

[Sception]

Just now, Raptor_Jesues said:

nah this is all in good spirit, i am actually very damn happy and i think most people will be. My pissings are mostly mild (except doot guy being gone, that i hate, i need some doot) 

Ditto.  Rend is a worry, but can be made up elsewhere (buffs, debuffs, maybe some other unit will specialize in rend freeing up the knights to stomp on softer targets).  The command changes /are/ debuffs that will probably be repeated across the faction, stacking with debuffs to gravesites, deathless minions, endless legions, etc - but in the case of blood knights those wide debuffs are absolutely paved over with targeted improvements.  At least assuming they are intended to be able to leave combat and charge back in as they please.  The result is a unit that, points depending, should be fun and good, if not as good at the specific job of taking out heavily armored foes as some of us might have hoped.  If this pattern continues throughout the various warscrolls, the end result should be perfectly fine.

Again, despite taking note of the handful of potential drawbacks, I'm very much riding high on this preview.  It feels nice.

[BrotherTalarian]

6 minutes ago, warhammernerd said:

I for one feel bad that for the people that think this is anything less than pure win. Shame you can’t enjoy it like the rest of us. X

What’s up with the us vs them mentality? 
 

people are allowed to disappointed because they expected something different, and that would be on them. Just move on and celebrate with those that are also eager

 

EDIT: worded it different to not sound as accusing/aggressive 

Edited May 11, 2021 by BrotherTalarian

[JackStreicher]

1 minute ago, Tizianolol said:

Riders of ruin is not a normal retreat in my opinion. I think you can charge after that move.  If they wanna considered that as "retreat" they specify that on the warscroll

 

Agreed, a normal move is no retreat.

[Aren73]

Just now, Sception said:

Ditto.  Rend is a worry, but can be made up elsewhere (buffs, debuffs, maybe some other unit will specialize in rend freeing up the knights to stomp on softer targets).  The command changes /are/ debuffs that will probably be repeated across the faction, stacking with debuffs to gravesites, deathless minions, endless legions, etc - but in the case of blood knights those wide debuffs are absolutely paved over with targeted improvements.  At least assuming they are intended to be able to leave combat and charge back in as they please.  The result is a unit that, points depending, should be fun and good, if not as good at the specific job of taking out heavily armored foes as some of us might have hoped.  If this pattern continues throughout the various warscrolls, the end result should be perfectly fine.

Again, despite taking note of the handful of potential drawbacks, I'm very much riding high on this preview.  It feels nice.

I am also of very much the same sentiment. Overall happy, though a bit worried about rend. If high rend was going to be anywhere in this book Blood Knights would have been somewhere near the top of that list for me. I don't want us to become one of those books that struggles for rend, so I wonder where it's going to come from.  

[Sartxac]

34 minutes ago, Raptor_Jesues said:

100%, probably even the base vampire lord still has the +1 attack CA. Rend is not too hot but they make up for it very well with raw power, after all rend -2 is only like a 17% damage increase from rend -1.

 

VS a save of +2, rend -2 do a 50% more damage than rend -1.

Vs save of +3, rend -2 do a 33.333% more damage than rend -1.

Vs save of +4, rend -2 do a 25% more damage than rend -1

Vs save of +5, rend -2 do a 20% more damage than rend -1

[Siphon]

Just now, Tizianolol said:

Riders of ruin is not a normal retreat in my opinion. I think you can charge after that move.  If they wanna considered that as "retreat" they specify that on the warscroll

 

Sadly when you read the actual rules, your interpretation is incorrect. I had to re-read it myself and think about it, but all moves while within 3” are normal moves. And then you have to choose either to retreat or stay stationary.  
 

I think the intent was yes they can charge after moving, but shoddy writing means they can’t unless FAQd or 3.0 specifies retreat as a special type of move.

[warhammernerd]

Apols if it’s taken as bashing. No harm intended. X

[Raptor_Jesues]

4 minutes ago, Tizianolol said:

Riders of ruin is not a normal retreat in my opinion. I think you can charge after that move.  If they wanna considered that as "retreat" they specify that on the warscroll

 

i think that is 100% the intention but as of now the rule is a tad unclear

[BaylorCorvette]

7 minutes ago, Raptor_Jesues said:

ok whatever, they are absolute units anyway, i am just mildly pissed for the retreat thing. I absolutely love that they got a 3+ base

Based on the article saying "Riders of Ruin makes Blood Knights ideal harassment units, striking at ‘safe’ targets and disrupting your opponent’s plans. They hit extra hard every time they charge, allowing you to chew your way through the foe’s battle formation with a devastating strike in each successive turn." It looks like the intent is for them to still charge, so we could see an FAQ. Also we don't know what 3.0 is going to be like. Retreats might not be apart of normal moves.

 

8 minutes ago, Boar said:

About rend thing, Chaos Knights for instance if they choose lance are sitting ducks (with rend 0) when stuck in prolonged combat. So Blood Knights are kinda mix between lance and sword in this regard.
 

They sacrifice some imapct on charge for better ombat ability if f.e.x they are charged. So it gives some, takes some I would say.

THIS. In my tournament Khorne army, I run two units of Chaos Knights. One with enscorcelled weapons and one with lances. The ensorcelled weapons either act as "chaff" or are my first wave of Knights to charge in and tie up the opponent with a follow up with lances. I used to run only lances but the problem was they really only got one good charge because even if I protected them allowing them to get the charge off, my opponent would usually just tie them up. So I for one actually like how Blood Knights are set up. Still can do more damage on the charge but aren't garbage if they get stuck in combat.

[Sception]

1 minute ago, JackStreicher said:

Agreed, a normal move is no retreat.

I'm pretty sure this is the intent, and I don't think anyone is arguing otherwise.  Certainly calls for some official FAQ clarification in competitive scenes, but I think it's safe to assume they'll be able to freely leave combat and charge back in when judging what you think of them.

[BrotherTalarian]

Just now, Aren73 said:

I am also of very much the same sentiment. Overall happy, though a bit worried about rend. If high rend was going to be anywhere in this book Blood Knights would have been somewhere near the top of that list for me. I don't want us to become one of those books that struggles for rend, so I wonder where it's going to come from.  

What I’m thinking as well, especially with the new SC being advertised as having a 2+ save. Tough but to crack.

 

wonder what the rules will be for the new Vengorian Lord. Likely some pretty awesome rules in order to sell the new model 

[warhammernerd]

And there is no us v them. All same side. All positive. 

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

40 minutes ago, Boar said:

 

First, my earlier point about rules not being exact/complete still stands. So we will see.

 

But nobody is declaring any special moves. By virtue of starting close to enemy normal move is retreat move, ie. it is retreat and normal move at the same time. Unless you claim that retreating units cannot run for instance?

 

37 minutes ago, Belmail said:

This, based on the core rules a retreat move is a normal move you make if you are within 3" of an enemy.

 

30 minutes ago, Grailstorm said:

You can’t charge after their move. All normal moves made within 3” are retreats.

My take, copied from the rumour thread:

Currently it is ambiguous. The language in the core rules says you decide to retreat or stay put when you "start a normal move". I personally read that as applying to trying to move out of combat under normal circumstances.

Since the Blood Knight rules are special rules, they trump general rules in my opinion. And they just say you get to make a normal move, nothing about having to decide to retreat or stay.

Plus, we have language in other places that says "when this unit makes a retreat", so I believe this situation is supposed to be different.

Normally, retreats are normal moves. But not all normal moves are retreats. I think that's the intention in this case. I hope that they clean up that section of the rules, though, because it is janky. Another example: When you start to move out of combat, you get the choice between retreat or stay. So is staying also a move? Because if it is,it violates the usual rules of not being able to move within 3" of opponents. If it's not, why do you have to "start to move" in order to not make a move?

 

I recognize there being a good case for having to make a retreat move with this ability by RAW, though. Let's wait for the FAQ.

 

[Aren73]

2 minutes ago, warhammernerd said:

Apols if it’s taken as bashing. No harm intended. X

No worries, you're excited for the reveals, I get it, I'm also super excited for the faction. 

All of us have a function to fill. Your enthusiasm I'm sure is helpful to drive your hobby creativity. 
My cynicism and critical outlook can be helpful when optimising lists. 

We're all batting for the same team here. 

[Saodexan]

Riders of Ruin is not a free retreat and charge rules, it's a free flying over wall of enemy rules. With the big base it's easy to get stuck or surrounded. This rules will help with that. Exactly like a Doomwheel.

 

 

Edited May 11, 2021 by Saodexan

[KratosvonCarstein]

Luckily we have 3.0 coming in 2 months or so where everything will be explained perfectly and there should be no room for interpretation 

Regardless of this I think this makes Blood Knights more fluffy, which was something that LoN was lacking imho.

 

Edited May 11, 2021 by KratosvonCarstein

[BaylorCorvette]

I asked on the war-comm FB page and they said the community team cannot answer rules questions and to e-mail aosfaq@gwplc.com. I strongly encourage everyone to send an e-mail to aosfaq@gwplc.com, the more e-mails they get on the same topic the more likely they are to address it with an FAQ.

 

The article also says "Have an opponent that likes to hide the juicy targets behind cheap screening units? They might as well not bother." seems pretty clear the intent.

Edited May 11, 2021 by BaylorCorvette

[Boar]

Just now, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

Since the Blood Knight rules are special rules, they trump general rules in my opinion. And they just say you get to make a normal move, nothing about having to decide to retreat or stay.

To do that, to "trump" core rules in this instance it would have to say that it is not retreat move. Otherwise there is no contradiction to be overwritten by special rule.

4 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

Plus, we have language in other places that says "when this unit makes a retreat", so I believe this situation is supposed to be different.

Yes but that can be also used to weaken your point.

Like in Marauder Horseman f.ex. were possibility of charging later is explicitly called, which is missing from Blood Knight. Which in turn could be used to argue "no charge" position.

 

[Siphon]

I don’t think anyone is arguing the intent, just the implementation of the rules which does not match the intent.

[Boar]

3 minutes ago, BaylorCorvette said:

I asked on the war-comm FB page and they said the community team cannot answer rules questions and to e-mail aosfaq@gwplc.com. I strongly encourage everyone to send an e-mail to aosfaq@gwplc.com, the more e-mails they get on the same topic the more likely they are to address it with an FAQ.

I have mixed feelings about that.

Many FAQ questions I see looks like victims of poor question phrasing and not necessarily FAQ team, can we proceed calmly and carefully?

 

[BaylorCorvette]

Shifting subjects slightly. Does this Blood Knight have a full helmet? Am I just now noticing this? I thought all the Blood Knights you could see their mouth / jaw exposed.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

5 minutes ago, Boar said:

To do that, to "trump" core rules in this instance it would have to say that it is not retreat move. Otherwise there is no contradiction to be overwritten by special rule.

Yes but that can be also used to weaken your point.

Like in Marauder Horseman f.ex. were possibility of charging later is explicitly called, which is missing from Blood Knight. Which in turn could be used to argue "no charge" position.

 

I don't want to get it any deeper because it's not really fruitful unless we get the matter cleared up by word of god. I think you probably have the better case by RAW. However, I also think the intent is fairly clear. Let' just agree to post "most polished edition yet, no more ambiguous rules" memes instead 😎

[Raptor_Jesues]

3 minutes ago, BaylorCorvette said:

Shifting subjects slightly. Does this Blood Knight have a full helmet? Am I just now noticing this? I thought all the Blood Knights you could see their mouth / jaw exposed.

uh... i thought it was a sallet... it probably depends on how you paint it
ALSO this is clearly some inferior virgin metal cosplay armor instead of the obviously superior chad 100kg blood red fullplate <.<

Edited May 11, 2021 by Raptor_Jesues

[Boar]

1 minute ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

I don't want to get it any deeper because it's not really fruitful unless we get the matter cleared up by word of god. I think you probably have the better case by RAW. However, I also think the intent is fairly clear. Let' just agree to post "most polished edition yet, no more ambiguous rules" memes instead 😎

Yeah let's chill.

Just with memes thing, I mean it's hard to write rules of any kind humans are utter ****** trying to twist them so let's not be too harsh on poor GW employees. GW was recently hiring new developer for rules so let's hope it will have good impact.