warhammernerd Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 3 minutes ago, El Syf said: Morghasts are -2 rend with halberds. Have you seen the size of a morghast blade? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamcbutton Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 Damn I really want to convert up some Thunderwolf-mounted Vyrkos Blood Knights after seeing that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 I like what I'm seeing. Roughly 9 average damage on the charge vs. a unit with a 4+ save, without counting any buffs or debuffs. Sounds decent. Always being able to 'retreat' and charge, being able to move over and damage enemy units while doing so, so that you can get to their back lines, that's pretty decent utility. The subfaction bonus for the castellans is exactly what I wanted to see, a recreation of their outflanking gimmick plus a rule that specifically encourages you to try and take on the strongest enemies with them. Looks good but not wildly OP. Obviously how good they are in practice will come down to points costs, but I like how these are looking. Will definitely be grabbing at least one box this weekend, if I'm not beat out by the scalpers. Not sure what I think of the banner bonus, though, especially if that's what banners do faction wide. A +1 to Deathless Minions would have been fantastic, but a 1/6 chance to get another shot at a 1/6 chance of doing something useful... that's 1/36. basically nothing. So I guess I am sure what I think of the banner bonus - it's bad. We're also looking at what appears to be loss of the minimum 6" charge from our old musicians, possibly faction wide, and that hurts, too. Yet more faction-rule nerfs. If they keep getting paired up with significant improvements to individual warscrolls like we're seeing with the Blood Knights here then it should work out fine in the end, but there's definitely going to be a lot more weight on our warscrolls to be good out of the gate. Still, these blood knights /are/ good out of the gate* so for the moment I'm riding high, if you'll pardon the pun. * again, points cost depending, but points costs are the one thing I'm not too terribly bothered about them getting wrong in the book, since that's the one thing GW's willing to tinker with regularly outside of major releases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belmail Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 2 minutes ago, Boar said: First, my earlier point about rules not being exact/complete still stands. So we will see. But nobody is declaring any special moves. By virtue of starting close to enemy normal move is retreat move, ie. it is retreat and normal move at the same time. Unless you claim that retreating units cannot run for instance? This, based on the core rules a retreat move is a normal move you make if you are within 3" of an enemy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Syf Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 1 minute ago, warhammernerd said: Have you seen the size of a morghast blade? I know, I just miss them, unless the that last little Nagash Icon allows us to field LoN as it was... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordPrometheus Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 (edited) 27 minutes ago, GutrotSpume said: They don’t seem very hitty do they? They’re supposed to be our big smash unit but seem more defensive with re-rolling 1’s for deathless and a 3+ save. The move out of combat isn’t that great as they should be the unit you rely on to obliterate something on the charge. If they could move out and charge again it would be great but as is it’s a bit meh. not bothering to give different weapon profiles for lances and swords is pure laziness. Starting to worry we got bin guy writer. Dude... check out the Kastellai buffs they get. Also, we need MORE cosmetic weapons in AOS, not less. It's way too easy to build the "wrong weapon" and not be able to do decent damage. This removes the noob trap and allows you to just build what you think is cool. This is a GREAT move. I hope 3.0 moves towards this completely. Having to try to work out the "best" weapon for troops with half a dozen options is tedious and unfun. Edited May 11, 2021 by LordPrometheus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherTalarian Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 1 minute ago, warhammernerd said: Have you seen the size of a morghast blade? Common man, it’s not outlandish to think that -2 rend on the charge should/could have been a thing. It’s common in most cavalry units. Also, have you seen the lane points? That looks terrifying to be struck by. Not unreasonable to think -2 rend could have been suitable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raptor_Jesues Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 1 minute ago, Sception said: I like what I'm seeing. Roughly 9 average damage on the charge vs. a unit with a 4+ save, without counting any buffs or debuffs. Sounds decent. Always being able to 'retreat' and charge, being able to move over and damage enemy units while doing so, so that you can get to their back lines, that's pretty decent utility. The subfaction bonus for the castellans is exactly what I wanted to see, a recreation of their outflanking gimmick plus a rule that specifically encourages you to try and take on the strongest enemies with them. Looks good but not wildly OP. Obviously how good they are in practice will come down to points costs, but I like how these are looking. Will definitely be grabbing at least one box this weekend, if I'm not beat out by the scalpers. Not sure what I think of the banner bonus, though, especially if that's what banners do faction wide. A +1 to Deathless Minions would have been fantastic, but a 1/6 chance to get another shot at a 1/6 chance of doing something useful... that's 1/36. basically nothing. So I guess I am sure what I think of the banner bonus - it's bad. We're also looking at what appears to be loss of the minimum 6" charge from our old musicians, possibly faction wide, and that hurts, too. Yet more faction-rule nerfs. If they keep getting paired up with significant improvements to individual warscrolls like we're seeing with the Blood Knights here then it should work out fine in the end, but there's definitely going to be a lot more weight on our warscrolls to be good out of the gate. Still, these blood knights /are/ good out of the gate* so for the moment I'm riding high, if you'll pardon the pun. * again, points cost depending, but points costs are the one thing I'm not too terribly bothered about them getting wrong in the book, since that's the one thing GW's willing to tinker with regularly outside of major releases. yeah, the banner are a bit junk but i cannot feel sad for the bravery thing being gone since it did almost nothing anyway. What i am really sad about is the removal of the doot boy, that was strong and i will miss it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaylorCorvette Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 2 minutes ago, Sception said: do faction wide. A +1 to Deathless Minions would have been fantastic, but a 1/6 chance to get another shot at a 1/6 chance of doing something useful... that's 1/36. basically nothing. So I guess I am sure what I think of the banner bonus - it's bad. We're also looking at what appears to be loss of the minimum 6" charge from our old musicians, possibly faction wide, and that hurts, too. My thoughts too about the banner. But I will reserve full judgement until we see the book / all the rules. If there is some way to get a better Deathless Minions then the re-roll of 1 is pretty impactful. For instance if there is a way to get a 5+ Deathless Minions and then the banner re-rolls 1s that would be pretty huge. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherTalarian Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 I’m looking forward to running a unit of 15 am picking off units and making a super buffed/terrifying ball of death. 12” move, 3D, and 4 wounds each is unlikely to get in a game, but if it does, oh boy! Will really make our opponents consider their deployment, all the buffs are super handy and great. can’t wait to see what else is coming! Command abilities, spells etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 I like the cosmetic weapons change. I don't like minor weapon variations like 'this one gets more on the charge, that one has slightly better to hit when not charging' or 'this one is 3+ to hit and 4+ to wound, that one is 4+ to hit and 3+ to wound' or the like. Minor variations inevitably lead to one option or the other just being better, which then punishes players for aesthetic choices. I do like /dramatic/ weapon differences, where the weapon options essentially completely change how you use the unit and what they do on the battlefield. So 'dread swords vs. dread axes' I'd prefer to be a cosmetic difference, but something like 'great blades vs. great bows' is a meaningful option that I like. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aren73 Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 3 minutes ago, BrotherTalarian said: Common man, it’s not outlandish to think that -2 rend on the charge should/could have been a thing. It’s common in most cavalry units. Also, have you seen the lane points? That looks terrifying to be struck by. Not unreasonable to think -2 rend could have been suitable. This. When you want to pierce something you want a very small, sharp point and not a large flat blade. It's why having them at lower damage (2 not say 3 or something) but rend of -2 would have made a lot of sense. But hey, this is what we have now, no use being down about it, these are great anti light-armour units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grailstorm Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 26 minutes ago, GutrotSpume said: Ok cool that’s much better then! You can’t charge after their move. All normal moves made within 3” are retreats. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aturox Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 4 minutes ago, BrotherTalarian said: Common man, it’s not outlandish to think that -2 rend on the charge should/could have been a thing. It’s common in most cavalry units. Also, have you seen the lane points? That looks terrifying to be struck by. Not unreasonable to think -2 rend could have been suitable. But none of the units has rend if they didnt charge themself but since they got the extra move it seems it doenst matter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warhammernerd Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 7 minutes ago, BrotherTalarian said: Common man, it’s not outlandish to think that -2 rend on the charge should/could have been a thing. It’s common in most cavalry units. Also, have you seen the lane points? That looks terrifying to be struck by. Not unreasonable to think -2 rend could have been suitable. Nah. Your wrong. It’s exceedingly uncommon, in fact I’ve yet to find a single cav unit with -2 rend. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicholasFlamelGames Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 The Blood Knights are such a hit for me. I cannot even start with how happy I am that both the swords and lances having the same weapon profiles. Too often I find units using the same loadouts because it feels like a handicap by not taking the better option. The rules previewed have a fantastic balance between strong for matched play and also very fluffy. Love them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raptor_Jesues Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 3 minutes ago, Grailstorm said: You can’t charge after their move. All normal moves made within 3” are retreats. false, the rule also specify it is a NORMAL move Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghoooouls Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 12 minutes ago, Belmail said: This, based on the core rules a retreat move is a normal move you make if you are within 3" of an enemy. Yea they can't retreat and charge still Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boar Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 1 minute ago, Raptor_Jesues said: false, the rule also specify it is a NORMAL move Retreat is normal move! It is retreat if it starts within 3". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aturox Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 3 minutes ago, warhammernerd said: Nah. Your wrong. It’s exceedingly uncommon, in fact I’ve yet to find a single cav unit with -2 rend. Its mentioned on the loadout description for specific lances 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 -1 rend is admittedly less than I would have liked on the elite cavalry, especially on the charge, and doubly especially with stronger armor saves in 3e, between the new stormcast terminators and the rumored changes to mystic shield. Hopefully there's a way to improve that. Maybe a death mage spell that imposes a -1 to target unit saving throws, or a command ability to improve a units rend or something. Like, without an additional source of rend, these blood knights are absolutely going bounce right off of Mortek Guard with shield wall up and +1 saves from katakros or mystic shield. So fingers crossed that there will be an additional source of rend somewhere in the book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feii Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 btw the mounted wight model won't be on prepurchase this time around - confirmed in the comments on FB by the warcom page. 2 waves! /s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warhammernerd Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 (edited) Some units in AoS with rend -2. Mostly limited to gods and cannons. Edited May 11, 2021 by warhammernerd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaylorCorvette Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 War-comm just confirmed Blood Knight base sizes, FYI. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belmail Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 5 minutes ago, Raptor_Jesues said: false, the rule also specify it is a NORMAL move yeah a retreat is a normal move made within 3" of an enemy, Riders of Ruin is a retreat move at the end of the day until it is FAQ'd to say otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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