Soulblight Gravelords News, Rumours and Speculation

[BaylorCorvette]

1 hour ago, Lich King said:

Already specially ordering things through a buddy’s store for discount. When do you think we’ll start seeing things leak from the Battletome - my gather by next weekend if not earlier ..

Well latest would be Friday late afternoon (U.S. time) due to New Zealand preorder. However with Some Slaanesh, DoK and LRL stuff I was seeing leaks as early as Wednesday. 

58 minutes ago, Aren73 said:

Real hours real talk:

Are we SG, SBG or SBGL? I've seen all three variations now. 

Or perhaps some other unholy variant? 

I'm team SBGL.

[Sception]

I was a fan of SGL, but since the point of an abbreviation is to be short, SG is probably the best.

No command ability on Duvalle.  I wonder if vamp lords are losing theirs, or if Duvalle is just less competent than regular vamp lords because they always try to make underworlds units a bit worse than their generic equivalents.

[BaylorCorvette]

1 minute ago, Sception said:

 

No command ability on Duvalle.  I wonder if vamp lords are losing theirs, or if Duvalle is just less competent than regular vamp lords because they always try to make underworlds units a bit worse than their generic equivalents.

My guess is, like you mentioned, GW usually makes warbands not as good in AoS. Otherwise this means Vamp Lords are loosing their chalice. Although, Hunger being D3 now softens the blow of the (potential) loss of the chalice. Dare I say it is a net gain!? Especially if you're like me and roll 3 or less for the D6 heal, lol.

[Sception]

18 minutes ago, BaylorCorvette said:

Dare I say it is a net gain!?

You daren't.  Because the chalice can be used at the start of your turn, wherever the vampire is or whatever it's doing, while the hunger can only be used at the end of combat after already committing the model to the risk of melee.

[Twisted Firaun]

11 hours ago, Raptor_Jesues said:

I am halway through of making two vengorian lords for my blood dragons themed army. I was really torn bethween having them ride something or having them be the big bat-dragon centaur monster so i decided i would do NEITHER. I made them to be big sneks with the clawed wings and a blood dragon lord torso stuck on top of the snek, kinda of like morathi.
I am fairly happy atm for how they are coming up 

You gotta post some pictures man, they sound cool. As for myself I actually like the bat-centaur, I figure with some bits replaced here and there it could make an awesome “Tomb Kings” themed beast.

[Austin]

I thought that SG had no associated mortarch but then I saw the cards have Mannfred on them.  Any insights on that?

[Sception]

1 hour ago, Austin said:

I thought that SG had no associated mortarch but then I saw the cards have Mannfred on them.  Any insights on that?

No new mortarchs are expected, but Mannfred and Neferata will both almost certainly be in the faction.  Even so, the Gravelords don't look to be one coherent faction or race within the lore like the ossiarchs are under Katakros or even like the Nighthaunts are under Olynder.  Rather this is a hodge podge of miscelaneous undead forces and kingdoms under a variety of leaders, some of which are allies with each other but more of which are bitter rivals or disconnected altogether, existing in different realms without any especial communication or trade.

A typical Soulblight Gravelord dominion might be a vampire lord, let's call them Vodrich, and his spawn using a horde of zombies raised by an enthralled necromancer to maintain control over a town of mortal feeding stock.  Vodrich might have struck up a mutual defense alliance with a wight king and their skeletal legion who live (unlive?) in a nearby ruined capital of a long forgutten civilization, with both promising to defend each other against incursions by enemy forces - order, chaos, destruction, or even death, as the expanding Ossiarch empire presents a clear threat to deathrattle kingdoms and Vampires' mortal food supplies alike.  If another Vampire Lord and their brood set up a neighboring territory, then they might form a similar alliance with Vodrich, or they might battle over territory and resources.  The Wight King might honor Vodrich's alliance, or might choose to side with the new vampire, or may just hold back and see which Soulblight lord comes out on top.

If a travelling necromancer passes through the area, they might offer their services to the Vodrich in exchange for a place in his court, or promises of being made into a vampire.  Perhaps Vodrich will make them duel his current necromancer thrall to show which is more worthy.  Or the necromancer might avoid the vampire entirely, and instead make their way to the deathrattle castle to attempt a ritual to necromantically dominate the skeletons and wights there, before leading Voderich's own allies against him.  Or the necromancer might take the skeletal army in pursuit of some personal agenda far away, leaving Voderich suddenly and unexpectedly exposed without the skeletal troops he had relied upon to defend his territory.  Or the necromancer's ritual might fail as they're flayed alive by skeletal claws, joining the deathrattle legion as yet another lowly skeletal warrior.

Maybe one day one of the Soulblight mortarchs does show up - Let's say Mannfred, swooping out of the sky unannounced, demanding fealty in the name and power of Nagash, despite the fact that he never displayed all that much loyalty to the lord of death himself.  None the less, he is still invested with a portion of the Great Necromancer's soul and may be able to compel Vodrich's obedience, willing or not, forcing him to round up his entire operation and set out on a march to who knows where in service of the mortarch's nefarious schemes or, as like as not, to avenge some slight against his wounded vanity.

Then again, with Nagash in convalescence, the mortarchs' dominion over the undead may be too diminished to compel obedience from a creature as strong and willful as a Soulblight Lord, and Vodrich might be able to resist his command, and maintain enough control over his own forces to see Mannfred chased away into the night, or even to pull him down and destroy his physical form.  But even if he could, Vodrich would be a fool to do so, since the mortarchs are as deathless as the apocalyptic deity they serve, and the Soulblight Mortarchs in particular never forget an insult.

So maybe Vodrich joins Mannfred willingly, but brings only a portion of his forces, leaving the wight king and some of his thralls to defend his territory.  Maybe he meets up with a few other undead armies that Mannfred has roped into this gambit, and after a long march through a couple realmgates they launch their attack on some City of Sigmar.  But when the stormhosts start bolting down in force Mannfred is of course suddenly nowhere to be found, and Vodrich is only barely able to break free of the encircling sigmarite forces at the head of a band of Blood Knights that Mannfred had roped in from Chamon of all planes.  And with no particular way to get back on their own the knights swear to follow Vodrich, & he leads them back to his home, down half an army but up an elite knightly bodyguard.

Which proves useful when he gets home to find his favorite spawn has claimed Vodrich's dominion and Vodrich is forced to cut through his remaining forces to slay his errant offspring and reclaim his hold.

forgive me for the long divergance.  I meant to put that all in a spoiler block, but the option does not appear?  bah.  formatting on this board is always such a hassle.

The point is, there is no singular Soulblight Gravelords faction, nation, or people to have a singular leader of them.  With Nagash temporarily out of the picture, there's just a mish mash of vampires and whatever lesser undead they can rope into their service, all struggling to survive and to establish their own territories, preferably with reliable populations of mortal food stock.  You might occasionally see a massive army pulled together from various places, and usually a mortarch will be involved in that, but such massive forces are typically short lived as the forces that pulled them together in the first place get distracted or as the personalities and ambitions of individual undead lords inevitably begin to clash.

When and if Nagash returns, that could all change, as the Great Necromancer is more than capable of compelling the obedience of any undead that manages to attract his attention.  But until that time, each Soulblight Lord is their own little Nagash, carving out their own little realm of death wherever they happen to find themselves.

Edited May 10, 2021 by Sception

[El Syf]

Those dice!

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

5 hours ago, Sception said:

You daren't.  Because the chalice can be used at the start of your turn, wherever the vampire is or whatever it's doing, while the hunger can only be used at the end of combat after already committing the model to the risk of melee.

1d3 wounds healing on a 3+ save is cool, though. Does not help against mortals, of course, but will make it hard to kill the Vampire Lord with standard rend 0/-1 attacks. If all new Vampire Lords are on a 3+ with a chance to heal in combat, good combat profile and are wizards, I'll be happy with them. Hopefully plus "mount traits".

[Raptor_Jesues]

3 hours ago, Sception said:

No new mortarchs are expected...

all you said aroused my inner medievalist rather hard, have a like sir

[Aturox]

I am looking forward to the fluff 😍 I wonder how the rules for vykros gonna be... Might use the goulking for a conversion as a vyrkoshero 🤔

Edited May 10, 2021 by Aturox

[Raptor_Jesues]

Just now, Aturox said:

I am looking forward to the fluff 😍 I wonder how the rules for vykros gonna be... Might use the goulking for conversion as a vyrkoshero 🤔

if you make him really hairy i can totally see that working

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

8 minutes ago, Aturox said:

I am looking forward to the fluff 😍 I wonder how the rules for vykros gonna be... Might use the goulking for a conversion as a vyrkoshero 🤔

Those Vyrkos rules can't come out soon enough! They have all of my favourite new sculpts. I want to see if wolf and bat focussed army is possible.

[El Syf]

Duvalle seems pretty good to be fair, flat 2 damage rather than the swingy d3. Spell makes his attacks all the better too. Can't wait to see the rest of the crimson court's stats. 

[Raptor_Jesues]

so, a pair of consideration from what we saw so far:
-gravesites are still in so i think we are going to have the same-ish summon mechanic
-on the other hand duvalle does not have the invocation and the rumors say that undeads can recover model by killing (it is unclear if skeletons get up by themself or if they must kill people) wich is interesting and makes the army a little bit less reliant on heroes keeping up with slow units
-duvalle has a 3+ save and i'd wager that vampire lords will have the same (i dont think the shield will translate necessarily in more resistance but we shall see). Also the spirit possessed sword is 2 damage now wich i would say is a decent improvement. All in all foot lords could be decently beefy
-the hunger gives back d3 wound wich is very cool (expecially for bloodknights since it could imply that they have now 4 wounds) but duvalle has no chalice wich is a bit worrying. It was very swingy but you can use it in your hero phase and it could save you from a stroke of bad luck, so it is a shame
-horde bonus BEGONE! Very good also considering that zombies and skellies come in 20 in the box, you have a perfectly functional unit from the get go. I wonder if skellies are a bit beefier by default now (we already know zombies do mortal wounds, so skellies could just have more attacks)

Edited May 10, 2021 by Raptor_Jesues

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

5 minutes ago, Raptor_Jesues said:

so, a pair of consideration from what we saw so far:
-gravesites are still in so i think we are going to have the same-ish summon mechanic
-on the other hand duvalle does not have the invocation and the rumors say that undeads can recover model by killing (it is unclear if skeletons get up by themself or if they must kill people) wich is interesting and makes the army a little bit less reliant on heroes keeping up with slow units
-duvalle has a 3+ save and i'd wager that vampire lords will have the save (i dont think the shield will translate necessarily in more resistance but we shall see). Also the spirit possessed sword is 2 damage now wich i would say is a decent improvement. All in all foot lords could be decently beefy
-the hunger gives back d3 wound wich is very cool (expecially for bloodknights since it could imply that they have now 4 wounds) but duvalle has no chalice wich is a bit worrying. It was very swingy but you can use it in your hero phase and it could save you from a stroke of bad luck, so it is a shame
-horde bonus BEGONE! Very good also considering that zombies and skellies come in 20 in the box, you have a perfectly functional unit from the get go. I wonder if skellies are a bit beefier by default now (we already know zombies do mortal wounds, so skellies could just have more attacks)

Some hopes and dreams now that we know gravesites are back:

• Gravesite deepstrike stays.

It's a fun mechanic that I believe often went underused. Might as well keep it around.

• Deathrattle and Deadwalker non-heroes can still be resurrected (maybe at half strength instead of full?).

I would like if any hero can do this, not just the general. Or even if it was possible without a hero. Failing that, I hope we get the ability to have double/triple generals like other factions. Otherwise, it's going to be the VLoZD show again (maybe the Vengorian Lord, too). With generic battalions and other command point changes, it seems like in AoS 3 command points will be more abundant. Since LoN was previously balanced by being command point starved, I think we will move to resurrecting half strength units, not full. Which would not be the worst if horde bonuses are mostly gone.

• Deathly Invocation goes, healing gets baked into the warscrolls.

I like that skeletons, zombies and vampires now heal in different ways. Zombies heal by killing, as they should. Vampires heal by damaging things. And skeletons just get back up after fighting. With all this healing going around, we don't need deathly invocations anymore. This will simplify positioning a bit, which would be welcome. Maybe necromancers retain a healing ability and become healer heroes?

• Gravesites can provide a minor heal to anything, not just summonable.

A big problem for the viability of Blood Knight lists in the past is how badly they interacted with LoNs core mechanics. I hope they benefit more this time around. I think making them and heroes able to benefit from gravesite healing would be good. An extra free d3 or so heal would really count for something on these units, unlike on skeleton blobs.

[flamingwalnut]

19 hours ago, Akylas said:

I definitely agree with the idea vampire lords should be stronger, and would be willing to pay more in points for that strength and/or more customization options.

I bought models in the wfb days but didn't start playing until AOS 2.0.  I think I just always had this idea in my head of Vampire Lords being rare but very powerful.

@flamingwalnut

Nothing too set in stone but I have some ideas about my army. Some basic thoughts for characters to lead the army. I used Inkarnate to make a map of the cheesily named Valley of Woe, a backwater area that was sacked and forgotten in the age of chaos, and only now starting to come back. My wife's Nighthaunts and my Ironjawz are also going to be tied to the area. 

If it's feasible I want to be able to field a wight king and skeleton + necromancer and zombie army as well as vamps.

Once the book's in my hands I hope to get a more concrete idea of where I'm going.

Are you planning to rework some fluff for your chacters for the new stuff?

At the moment, not quite sure. I am SUPER curious about the new bloodlines and where they may take the idea of Vampires. As well as what kind of lists I want to run. 

One thing I want to flesh out and use more is the hordes. My first foray into Legions of Nagash actually had very FEW hordes. I have min squad skellies and several dire wolves. My Coven Throne, Blood Knights, and Zombie Dragon were the big, elite hitters. The new zombies (and idea of zombies as an almost beastial horde, sounds like a lot of fun. I have a bunch of old zombies at a friend's place, so it's a great start, even if those are really....bad and old. lol 

But will post more lore and stuff on the forum as I get closer. I want to catalog all my lore soon, maybe get back into a lore building project. 

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

7 hours ago, Loyal Son of Khemri said:

As for myself I actually like the bat-centaur, I figure with some bits replaced here and there it could make an awesome “Tomb Kings” themed beast.

The Necrospinx is a perfect Vengorian Lord proxy already. It has the exact same body configuration. Only downside is that you have to source a Necrosphinx somewhere.

[Aren73]

Hoping to see a WC article today and hopefully the WD pictures sometime soon. 

Think they'll reveal faction abilities, artefacts or unit stats first? 

 

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

3 minutes ago, Aren73 said:

Hoping to see a WC article today and hopefully the WD pictures sometime soon. 

Think they'll reveal faction abilities, artefacts or unit stats first? 

 

They usually just reveal some assorted special rules, right? Makes sense, those are most exciting in a vacuum.

[El Syf]

So my hype levels have gone back through the roof, Blood Knights warscroll is crucial. I'm in even if it's bad but it's the difference between one box if it's bad and 3+ if it's good.

[Aren73]

Sounds good, so I imagine something like the hunger, deathless minions and skeleton or zombie heal mechanics? 

On another note, I've had time to think on the apparent lord profile and it's not too bad - as long as that's the baseline and we get some customisation to go with it. It's GW saying that "even the weakest, magic focused vampire lord is as strong as this" which is fine. 

But, we need an extra level of customisation. Bloodline (dynasty), vampire power and artefact to be able to make proper caster or blender lords. 

What are your thoughts on what a blender or caster v lord would be like? 

[warhammernerd]

I think its fairly certain we can say that 'bloodlines' will simply be our version of subfactions, ie their will be 4-6, and of them 1-2 will be the go too, the others will be less useable but thematic. I imagine any Vampire specific loadouts and abilities will be along the line as other people have suggested, i.e. one command and an artefact if you choose with more flavourful options coming in the form of named characters (which there looks to be a lot of). I too would love a return to the customisation of Vamps from old world fantasy, but I'm not sure why we should be rewarded with greater granularity that any other faction in the game, aside from sub-faction differences? 

 

Edited May 10, 2021 by warhammernerd

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

2 minutes ago, warhammernerd said:

I'm not sure why we should be rewarded with greater granularity that any other faction in the game, aside from sub-faction differences. 

I think this is the kind of difference that give factions their own flavour and identity. Gravelords are still a bit of a soupy faction, so I think giving vampires extra customization options to show that they are the ones in charge would not be bad design.

[The Brotherhood of Necros]

Where does that leave us so far?

• Neferata/Nulahmian bloodline - playable SBGL character
• Mannfred/Von Carstein bloodline - playable SBGL character,
• Mother of Nightmares/Vengorii bloodline - playable SBGL character
• Belladama/Vyrkos bloodline - playable SBGL character(s)
• 'The Blood Dragon'/Blood Dragon bloodline - mysterious SBGL background figure, Vhordrai closest representative?
• Ushoran/Strigoi bloodline... see Flesh Eater Courts

I am dying to find out more about a) what makes the bloodlines so distinct (at the mo, I feel the Vyrkos/FEC and Vengorii/Blood Dragon aesthetics are v. similar) and b) which other new or returning bloodlines might feature.