Soulblight Gravelords News, Rumours and Speculation

[Gotz]

1 hour ago, Erdemo86 said:

Also wasn’t there a leak in the new white dwarf where you could make your own hero? So you could still use the named characters as model for your own created Hero.

That's the anvil of aphoteosis. Specially suited for narrative and open play, and any friendly match in general, but not really for matched play. 

But yeah, it's a really interesting device to repurpose named characters or work on some conversions 

[Aren73]

@Koradrel of Chrace and @Harioch haha thanks - hey I am still really stoked for the faction! 

Don't get me wrong, sure I think the new reveals could have been better, but I am still so so hyped for Soulblight Gravelords as a whole!

I'm going to grab some Fell Bats, a Vengorian Lord (or two!), skeles, blood knights, a Terrorgheist and plenty of Vargheists and I am going to run a bat themed, nightmare army! It's going to be kick-ass and look amazing and hopefully be at least somewhat viable  Fingers crossed for good rules eh? 

[Malakithe]

Well im happy. The wait was killing me and now i can actually plan ahead. Going to go ham on some vamps. Heres to hoping we get a good book that some what reflects 'some of the strongest beings in all the Mortal Realms'

[Clan's Cynic]

3 hours ago, warhammernerd said:

Sure, I hear that. But likewise, it’s demoralising when people moan constantly.

It's demoralising to have every critique or discussion interjected by someone going "Omg someone always whines11!" or "Some people are never happy!!!" as if it's somehow going to bowl over people's opinions and make them see the 'error' of their ways for not mindlessly loving literally everything Games Workshop puts out for no other reason than it has 'Warhammer' on the label.

I guess some people keep posting it because of the dopamine rush they get from the guaranteed Likes or something.

 

 

Edited May 4, 2021 by Clan's Cynic

[Sception]

I'm still super hype myself.  Lauka/Vengabus in particular very much tickles my own 'Nagashii / necromantic horror / vampires as abominations meant to slaughter mortals not rule them' sensibilities, as well as my love of goofy toyetic model designs.

But that's very much a taste thing, and this is a marmite model if I've ever seen one.  I can absolutely understand others hating it, and as it is the big centerpiece model of the release wave, and literally the only actual new generic unit in a release wave otherwise made up of named heroes and updates to the existing range.

Even as hype as I feel, there are things I think could have been handled better.  I cannot argue with the total number of kits, because even if you ignore the cursed city refugees (as IMO you should) 10 new model kits is an absolutely monstrous release already.  So the only fair criticism is releases you think should have been swapped out for something else.  On that ground there are a few things I think could have been better:
 

Spoiler

 

Beyond Fault:

• Zombies - new models look nice and were absolutely needed, can't find any fault here.
• dire wolves - same
• blood knights - same.  Admittedly heavy cloaks and furs would have been great, but I kind of like the svelte look, so imo no fault here.
• Mounted wight king - needed, and the new model is, imo, the best warhammer undead model ever.  absolutely hype.
• Fell Bats - I'm nor sure there needs to be a fell bat unit, but if there is to be such a thing then they needed new models and these look good imo.
• Lauka Vai / Vengorian Lord - as mentioned above, I really like this thing.

Refugees, imo not originally part of this release, so not really fair game

• Kritza/Annika - Lets be real here, these are Cursed City refugees.  Their presence in this battletome is a result of their real home, the Cursed City, getting pulled out from under them.  They aren't replacing anything else we might have gotten instead.  So yeah, I don't think they were necessary, and there's absolutely other things I'd rather have seen (separate swarms or nightguard or especially gravekeeper) but I can't pretend like the Gravelords might have gotten something else in their place.

stuff that maybe might have been better as different stuff, or at least a different version of itself:

• Vampire lord - looks nice, but we just effectively got 4 great plastic vampire lord on foot models in the Crimson Court, so if it were up to me and I knew there was only room in the release wave for a single generic vampire lord, I would have gone for one mounted on a horse so as to complement the new blood knights.
• Skeletons - these are a great new kit, but honestly the existing ones still hold up, and I especially wouldn't have chosen to replace them if they weren't also ready to replace the grave guard.  A dual kit with new grave guard might have been possible, but IMO this kit should have been dropped for a 3 to 5 model blood-born or similar vampire infantry kit.
• Radukar/Volga - I do honestly really like both of these models.  The Vyrkos in general have a cool theme going, one we haven't seen before in AoS / Vampire Counts.  I cannot begrudge their existence, nor can I begrudge them getting an AoS specific named character.  But two is probably too much, yeah.  That said, if I were to remove one of these, I'm not sure how I'd pick.  Radukar 2.0 is an /amazing/ model.  Like, really, spectacular.  While Volga is just really cool conceptually on that wolf, and brings a bit of baba yaga energy to the subfaction that really works, imo.  Personally, I'd keep Volga, then go even more bestial on Radukar so that you could make him a dual kit with a generic vargskyr.

 

Honestly, even trying I can't find much to fault here.

I absolutely understand people who are disappointed at the relative lack of new units, at the excess of named characters (though I mostly blame cursed city refugees for that feeling, if you ignore cursed city stuff it's much more reasonable), at the big new centerpiece not being to their particular taste, etc.

But hopes and expectations aside, this is, again, just a positively monstrous release wave, and definitely marks us out as a faction GW in motivated to support, not just an afterthought holdover from a long dead game.

[Nagash42]

There are no refugees.

There wouldn't have been time to suddenly but these models in the book if they were supposed to be expansions for Cursed City. 

[Sception]

There would be if they were going to put them in the book anyway, which could easily be the case while still having originally been intended for Cursed City.

which kritza and annika clearly were.  They don't even look like warhammer models.  Nothing else in the new soulblight line looks anything like them, not even the other Vyrkos special characters.  These were not originally designed for AoS and you cannot convince me otherwise.

I'm not saying they weren't always intended to be in the battletome, but they're in the battletome like the cursed city main box pile is, or like the sepulchral guard might be, or like the war cry warbands were in the slaves to darkness book.  They aren't there instead of other units that people wanted more, they're there because they already existed for other games and got added to the pile in a 'might as well' sort of way.

I mean, Kritza literally only makes sense if he's paired with undead rat swarms, which exist in the cursed city game, but according to all rumors and information pointedly /do not/ exist in the Soulblight Gravelords battletome.

He is a refugee.  Don't get me wrong, I'm happy to have him, but it is pointless to complain that we should have gotten another generic hero instead because an instead was never possible.  He wasn't a core part of this wave that could have been something else.  He's bonus.  He's extra.  And if he is, then so is Annika.

Edited May 4, 2021 by Sception

[Mandzak-Miniatures]

I think there are nice things here, but the army is disjointed. On one hand you have the flanged armor of the blood knights and vampires that have been a thing for quite a while. Then you have the injection of “kislev” vampire characters. Which aesthetically is disjointed by everything else in the army. Hell all wolves in the army except the two on the wolf riding lady are dead but hers.

zombies wolves and bats are generic

skeletons have a new look of heavily armored that rival graveguard, also in stature.

With the exception of leman Russ returned from the warp, I mean Radukan (obvious big were-vampire), vampires including bloodknights are all big but not Sigvald in size. Enter the hamfisted, everyone gets a “centaur” but BoC.  Why are they so big? Why wouldn’t the mortarch vampires have that kind of stature if they are so powerful? I’m fine with a named character like this, but the alt build should have been a abyssal terror type mount or mourghast thing. This smells of not knowing wtf to do for a centerpiece, it’s completely disjointed to have a giant half vampire thing. Now if it was a “form” like morathi then sure that works.

lastly, the removal of all things “night haunt”.  The black coach has always had a reviving vampire in it and was a part of VC before bloodknights existed. Spirit hosts, wraith and banshee also a classic VC units.   FEC and NH are only separate because gw split it up for AoS. However there are FEC units present in SG. So the basic & classic VC ethereal units need to remain NH for what reason? By that logic SG should only have bat things and zombies and skeletons be completely removed. Seems oddly specific that the grave sites these vampires lord over are void of tormented spirits.

there is a lot of potential for great conversions. But for me this was a blow hoping for a return of more “classic” VC instead of overloading on Russian themed vampire characters.

Edited May 4, 2021 by Mandzak-Miniatures

[BaylorCorvette]

So I just started to think abut this, but it is very possibly that warscroll for the Terrorghiest and Zombie Dragon do not change because they are also in the FeC army. Although someone could just make the argument that FeC will indirectly receive a buff by Gravelords updating Terrorghiests and Zombie Dragons. But I'm going to be pissed if our Zombie Dragons do not get a slight buff. Also there better be mount traits in the Gravelords book.

[Sception]

The scrolls might change for this book, but that won't affect the FEC versions.  FEC and LoN TGs and ZDs have had separate rules pretty much since FEC were a thing.  Personally I don't expect mount traits.  But vampire traits could be a thing.  That's what I'm hoping for, anyway.  Especially since a Vengorian could conceivably benefit from vampire traits, but not from mount traits since it isn't actually mounted.

...

As for those who want nighthaunt stuff... I would have liked spirit hosts to have stuck around too, so I do feel you, but even so allies are a thing in this game.  There's a whole established subsystem for how they work.  A standard 2k game has enough ally room for a wraith, three spirit hosts, and a black coach.  Or a Black Coach and two banshees.  Or reikenor, a banshee, and 20 chainrasps.  Or a knight of shrouds on steed and 10 hexwraiths.

If you want to field ghosts in your army then

 

Edited May 4, 2021 by Sception

[swarmofseals]

6 hours ago, relic456 said:

Named characters have almost been across the board not competitively viable outside centerpiece models like Archaon, Nagash, etc. Not impossible that GW bucked the trend this time around but just saying historically that isn't the case.

Let's investigate the first statement a bit. As you mentioned there are tons of very competitive centerpiece named characters. Here's a list of all of the non-specialist game (so no WHQ or Underworlds) non-centerpiece characters named characters that have been released since the start of AOS:

• The Changeling
• Sigvald
• Syll'Esske
• The Masque
• Volturnos
• Brokk Grungsson
• Eltharion
• Ellania and Ellathor
• Sevireth
• Gavriel Sureheart
• Astreia Solbright
• Neave Blacktalon
• Gardus
• Drycha
• Skragrott
• Lady Olynder
• Reikenor
• Kurdoss Valentian
• Zandtos
• Vokmortian
• Vandus Hammerhand
• Khorgos Khul

The new Lumineth heroes and Gardus are too early to really make a judgment about, so I'm going to disregard them.

Syll'Esske, Volturnos, Gavriel Sureheart, Drycha, the Changeling and Zandtos have all seen pretty major competitive play.

Skragrott, Lady Olynder, and Reikenor have all been very competitive choices in their faction, but haven't seen as much competitive play because they belong to relatively uncompetitive factions.

Eltharion is a very solid warscroll that is overshadowed by other stuff in the same faction.

I'd argue that Sigvald is semi competitive at the very least.

That leaves The Masque, Brokk Grunggsson, Astreia Solbright, Neave Blacktalon, Kurdoss Valentian, Vokmortian, Vandus Hammerhand and Khorgos Khul.

Out of 19 I'd say that only 8 are non-competitive, and even among those I think Vandus Hammerhand and The Masque aren't all that bad.

2 are semi-competitive, and 9 are either competitive or would be if their factions were better.

So overall I'd say it's basically a coinflip as to whether a named character is competitive or not -- certainly not "nearly across the board not competitively viable" unless you set an extremely high bar for competitively viable, in which case the same could be true for basically all warscrolls.

5 hours ago, Aren73 said:

Let's call a spade a spade. 

5/12 - almost half of our new releases are named characters. Does anyone here actually like running multiple named characters in their lists? 

....

 

@warhammernerd - it's really tiring when people try to shut down honest and genuine critique. Games Workshop doesn't produce pure gold all the time, some of their releases are better than others, it's ok for other people to think that this release is one of the lackluster ones.

Personally I don't really care if a character is named or not. If I like the model and like the rules I'll be happy running it. So you can at least count me as someone who (potentially) likes running multiple named characters in my lists.

I'll respond to the other bit below with @Clan's Cynic's comment

2 hours ago, Clan's Cynic said:

It's demoralising to have every critique or discussion interjected by someone going "Omg someone always whines11!" or "Some people are never happy!!!" as if it's somehow going to bowl over people's opinions and make them see the 'error' of their ways for not mindlessly loving literally everything Games Workshop puts out for no other reason than it has 'Warhammer' on the label.

@Aren73 and @Clan's Cynic -- I think both of you have a valid point. There has to be room for criticism, and not everybody is going to be happy. I can only speak for myself, but what makes me want to argue with people posting negative reactions isn't the reaction itself or the "honest and genuine critique" but rather the tendency of people to frame their personal, subjective opinions either as objective facts or as opinions that are widely or universally held rather than individual.

So comments like "Bit pissed that we didn't get ...." by @CDM or "Oh well...they missed my taste by a mile and a half. I will probably pass on this one for now." by @DocKeule don't bother me at all even though they are negative. They embrace their subjectivity and assert the opinion as their own.

Meanwhile comments like "lets call a spade a spade" attempts to assert an opinion as an objective fact. "Does anyone here actually like XYZ?" could be an honest question, but it's framed in a very leading way that rhetorically makes it much more of a suggestion that nobody likes playing with multiple named characters.

I know it may seem pedantic, but for me there is a big difference between "this release sucks" and "I think this release sucks."

[Ghoooouls]

2 hours ago, BaylorCorvette said:

So I just started to think abut this, but it is very possibly that warscroll for the Terrorghiest and Zombie Dragon do not change because they are also in the FeC army. Although someone could just make the argument that FeC will indirectly receive a buff by Gravelords updating Terrorghiests and Zombie Dragons. But I'm going to be pissed if our Zombie Dragons do not get a slight buff. Also there better be mount traits in the Gravelords book.

Terrorg and zomb dragon both got updated with FEC and and the legions FAQ said to replace the ones in the book with the new FEC ones. I'd assume that will happen here, but I'd also assume we don't get the zombie dragon (other than the one mounted by a vampire), as was the case previously.

If that is the case, the terrorgheist really doesn't need any changes, it's great already and will benefit from our abilities.

Edited May 4, 2021 by Ghoooouls

[JackStreicher]

Summarized we received 5 truly new units:

- The CC band (has to be taken together, so I‘ll count it once)

- Wolf Lady

- Radukar the Beast

- Vangorian Lord

- Lady of the Vangorian Lords

that‘s 4 unique units out of 5.
All of the rest we received were gorgeous remakes of old units (counting in the new Vampire Lord and  the Wight King)

I Love Radukar and his Skyrim-esque armor, he’s awesome.

The Wolf lady is fine, but she isn‘t that interesting imo

The Vangorian Lord and Lady. I thought about this for a while and tried to like it. I am happy for everyone who loves the model!
My opinion over is: It looks like 2 finished Models, which look awesome on their own, yet they were put together in the most unfitting way imo, meaning: The Vampire part is huge, the biggest Vampire Torso ever. The lower body has no design cue that it actually belongs to the upper body: I‘d have loved to see some armour of the same style for example to bind the two pieces together. This makes the model look disconnected from the main body. Maybe this was intentional idk. 
Looking at the army the model doesn‘t look like it‘s part of the same book. There is no other monster remotely like it (a unit of small Vampires like the Vangorian would bind it into the army). 
Many people said it’s weird and supposed to be weird, which I partly agree with. In my opinion it doesn‘t look weird, to my eye it doesn‘t look good. Weird could have been achieved differently, to me this is just a model glued atop another, totally different model. Anyways let‘s get back to the positivity!

The Direwolfes are great. They really inspire to build a wolf themed army (which we can!)

I also think that the army for the greatest part looks good and coherent: The skeletons have a Russian/Eastern touch with their spiked  helmets. Radukar and Wolf Lady fit that esthetic very well. All I miss now is a armoured infantry unit that‘s more elite than grave guards. Maybe a far in the future release will finally add a unit of Vyrkos Bloodborn?

Edited May 4, 2021 by JackStreicher
Autocorrect:)

[Bosskelot]

The full reveal is a little underwhelming for me.

I have to echo the disappointment at the absurd amounts of named characters in the release schedule. A big part of Warhammer for me is the concept of "Your guys." Being able to create an army for yourself and fill it with your own lore and characters. I play Craftworld Ulthwe in 40k and so make heavy use of Eldrad, but my two main HQ's are an Autarch and her twin Farseer brother and I've created an entire backstory and ongoing narrative for the two of them over the past few years. Same with my Necron Phaeron and his entire royal court and its political intrigues. Same with my 3 Raiding Force leaders for my Drukhari. Sure, I'll use Drazhar in that army sometimes, but in none of these cases are special characters really a big part of the faction identity of even necessary for them to function. In AOS my gobbos of the Yellow Nose Tribe have an entire hierarchy and storyline going on, carried over from WHFB.

In all these cases there's enough given to you in order for you to make your own storylines while being able to dip into the named character pool every now and then. With Soulblight it really feels unbalanced in the other direction, especially as outside of a single Vampire Lord on foot and one on a Dragon you have no other options to represent an un-named Vampire character in your army which feels a little limiting. There's no way to represent an un-named "Feral" vampire either it seems. Radaukar or bust I guess.

Really though it's a further indication of how splitting up a lot of armies from WHFB has had mixed results and the extreme focus on special characters within AOS really kills a lot of my interest in it as a game and a setting. Soulblight are not the VC reboot people were hoping for, but that's because VC already lost half of their units to other factions. And that is not some insurmountable problem, but it would have been nice to see some more actual new units and new generic characters to flesh the faction out and make it feel more alive. So many AOS factions have the majority of their Warscroll entries just be characters which a lot of the time makes them feel less interesting and more simplistic than they otherwise might be.

I know a lot of people like the ongoing narrative of AOS, but I've always struggled to get into that sort of thing within a wargame setting. Not that I object to it or can't enjoy parts of it, but a setting is more important than a narrative to me mainly because in a setting-focused medium I can create my own stories, rather than being fed them.

 

[Lightbox]

So I am big happy with the new stuff, I had literally been talking to my dad the other day about wanting to see a little more monstrous vampire creatures (like vargheists) and the bat-dragon-centaur-vampire-coolkid-lady definitely scratches that itch for me! I can understand it being a bit marmite but unlike actual marmite I am loving this model.

I have also found myself surprisingly drawn to the Vyrkos as a bloodline, the new models for them look pretty sweet and I'll have to hope their rules mesh with how I like to play because I can totally see myself greenstuffing russian hats onto all my vampires and getting lots of wolves.

[Clewzy]

Overall I'm very happy with this although I do find the lack of an update to  grave guard a bit perplexing. 

[LuminethMage]

9 hours ago, Aren73 said:

Ah you're right, Blood Knights also needed resculpts 100%. 

Really, the resculpts are not my issue with this release, they bring those units up to speed with the rest. 

I do just wish we didn't get so many named characters. I'd happily sacrifice Anika, Belladamma and Radukar the Beast for one new vampiric unit like the Bloodborn. 

If it was up to me I'd have probably done the resculpts as is, also had a new kit for Grave Guard, ditched the above mentioned named characters, kept Lauka and the Vengorian Lord and added just one new unit. 

This would bring the release from a 7/10 to an 8-9/10 for me. 

I don't get the feeling that people are hating this release, rather I think the general feeling is "it's ok, it's a bit meh, probably not as good a release as Lumineth or OBR". 

Just saying - half the people in the LRL chat hated the first release. Almost everything about it. There is also a bit of "the grass is greener" effect. And OBR weren't uncontroversial either. LRL didn't have a melee hero, 3 sculpts most people at the time actively hated, and no real re-sculpts that many of you seem to like with the vamps, which are much closer to the original than what the LRL got. Everyone who liked dragons, eagles, heavy cavalry, chariots etc. has been still left without anything to go for even now. 

They might not have done what you wanted them to do, but it doesn't have to mean it's better or worse than other releases. If you really like a faction - you'll also see the problems much more, if it's not exactly what you wanted. For some - like myself - the LRL are all I ever wanted, but many HE fans are still not really happy with them. 

[lare2]

After the events of last night and having a good sleep on it, I think the plan for me now is just initially buying the tome and seeing what's what from there. I'm not massively keen on some of the range but love a fair amount. Hopefully it's possible to build a viable list from the stuff I do like. My enthusiasm for the project has been massively blunted though, not gonna lie, to the point at which I may just continue my worship of Naggy via bedsheets.

[Rachmani]

I‘m surprisingly happy about these releases. 
Mainly because they’re not for me

Sounds strange, I know, but with some destruction factions potentially on the horizon, my wallet & painting time can do without the Soulblight.

[Honk]

Well, looking at the Vangorians again after a good 8h hanging from the parapet 🦇

i still think a morathi approach with two models would have been better... the lower Body looks totally rad ☢️ and the upper body has the old gothic style I love. It’s maybe just the fear of a new style, centaurs never were a vampire thing before. 
let‘s see how the rules treat us, as far as I can see, the usual vampire lists will be possible, maybe with some NH allies.

and with grandma riding living wolves, my investment into fenrisian wolves pays out big time. Her lycanthrop g5-son is hopefully the 250-300 melee monster I hoped for 😈

can‘t wait to field 25 bloodknights with wolves and bats again, led by a highly altered vangorian lord

 

[Souleater]

Overall I am very happy with the release.

 

New versions of Zombies and Skeletons are great, but the Dire Wolves just knock it out of the park for me.  They're a perfect update to a model that I really disliked.

 

Not keen on Queen of Nightmares. Half of two great models joined together at the wrong point.  

[El Syf]

I've backed myself into a corner of starting afresh so I'm going to be shelling out some money this month!

My only real complaint (Because lets be honest my dream of Abhorash wasn't going to happen) is the Lauka Vai/Vangorri model, could it not have been a mount rather than whatever it is? 

Everything else was spot on, hopefully Blood Knights are worth the wait in the rules department.

[Aren73]

3 hours ago, swarmofseals said:

Let's investigate the first statement a bit. As you mentioned there are tons of very competitive centerpiece named characters. Here's a list of all of the non-specialist game (so no WHQ or Underworlds) non-centerpiece characters named characters that have been released since the start of AOS:

• The Changeling
• Sigvald
• Syll'Esske
• The Masque
• Volturnos
• Brokk Grungsson
• Eltharion
• Ellania and Ellathor
• Sevireth
• Gavriel Sureheart
• Astreia Solbright
• Neave Blacktalon
• Gardus
• Drycha
• Skragrott
• Lady Olynder
• Reikenor
• Kurdoss Valentian
• Zandtos
• Vokmortian
• Vandus Hammerhand
• Khorgos Khul

The new Lumineth heroes and Gardus are too early to really make a judgment about, so I'm going to disregard them.

Syll'Esske, Volturnos, Gavriel Sureheart, Drycha, the Changeling and Zandtos have all seen pretty major competitive play.

Skragrott, Lady Olynder, and Reikenor have all been very competitive choices in their faction, but haven't seen as much competitive play because they belong to relatively uncompetitive factions.

Eltharion is a very solid warscroll that is overshadowed by other stuff in the same faction.

I'd argue that Sigvald is semi competitive at the very least.

That leaves The Masque, Brokk Grunggsson, Astreia Solbright, Neave Blacktalon, Kurdoss Valentian, Vokmortian, Vandus Hammerhand and Khorgos Khul.

Out of 19 I'd say that only 8 are non-competitive, and even among those I think Vandus Hammerhand and The Masque aren't all that bad.

2 are semi-competitive, and 9 are either competitive or would be if their factions were better.

So overall I'd say it's basically a coinflip as to whether a named character is competitive or not -- certainly not "nearly across the board not competitively viable" unless you set an extremely high bar for competitively viable, in which case the same could be true for basically all warscrolls.

Personally I don't really care if a character is named or not. If I like the model and like the rules I'll be happy running it. So you can at least count me as someone who (potentially) likes running multiple named characters in my lists.

I'll respond to the other bit below with @Clan's Cynic's comment

@Aren73 and @Clan's Cynic -- I think both of you have a valid point. There has to be room for criticism, and not everybody is going to be happy. I can only speak for myself, but what makes me want to argue with people posting negative reactions isn't the reaction itself or the "honest and genuine critique" but rather the tendency of people to frame their personal, subjective opinions either as objective facts or as opinions that are widely or universally held rather than individual.

So comments like "Bit pissed that we didn't get ...." by @CDM or "Oh well...they missed my taste by a mile and a half. I will probably pass on this one for now." by @DocKeule don't bother me at all even though they are negative. They embrace their subjectivity and assert the opinion as their own.

Meanwhile comments like "lets call a spade a spade" attempts to assert an opinion as an objective fact. "Does anyone here actually like XYZ?" could be an honest question, but it's framed in a very leading way that rhetorically makes it much more of a suggestion that nobody likes playing with multiple named characters.

I know it may seem pedantic, but for me there is a big difference between "this release sucks" and "I think this release sucks."

@swarmofseals - First of all, thank you for the well put together and politely worded reply. It's much more enjoyable to disagree with people if both can be expected to have a grip on their emotions. 

To tackle your first comment about my post I'd say this:
You say I attempt to assert an opinion as an objective fact, by using the phrase "lets call a spade a spade". 
However, you'll find immediately after I said that I followed it up with an objective fact, namely the ratio of named characters to overall releases. That's not an opinion, it can't be. That's how it was intended to come across. 
A - let's look at the objective data
B - let's then talk about how we feel about it. 
 

As for your second claim, that my question about "Does anyone actually play multiple named characters?" is leading and not an honest question:

1. It was intended as both.
2. I am genuinely interested in how many people would play specifically multiple named characters in a list. 
3. It is indeed leading but only in so far as I want to demonstrate my deep disbelief in the majority of the community doing that. I could have run a poll, tried to gauge the true interest in multiple named character lists in the community and then made an objective claim that "the majority" or "the minority" etc play those lists. But that's effort and time, by the time I'd have done that the conversation would have gone cold. So instead, I used that question which both seeks to ask who here would actually play multiple named characters in a list as well as expressing that I find it unlikely that the majority does so. 

Nonetheless - I appreciate your approach to this discussion, it's level-headed and makes for a more chill environment, kudos. 

In general I'd like to respond with two things. 

Firstly - there are plenty of objective things we can say about this reveal. For example the ratio of named characters to resculpts. Or the fact that on paper this release seems smaller than the Gloomspite Gitz one (which had the same amount of resculpts, more new units, terrain and endless spells). These are things that inform our opinions but ultimately it is our opinions that matter. It is based on our personal opinions that we will buy and play this army. 

Secondly - Opinions are important and I see them as just as valid data. If someone feels bad or good about this release there is a reason they feel so. Some of those reasons will be based more on their internal factors and experiences but I'd say the majority of those reasons are still based on the quality of this release and the perceived value it brings to each person. I don't mind if someone says their opinion to me framed as objective fact - it is the objective fact to them, I don't need them to preface it with "In my opinion" because I already know that that's what they mean. As long as people are polite and respectful I am VERY interested in everyones opinion on this. I love Vampire Counts/Soulblight and I enjoy talking about both negative and positive opinions regarding them. 

To close, I'd also say that at that point I got a bit tired of the negative comment bashing that was going on and I wasn't as subtle as I could have been - perhaps it makes my post seem a bit on the arrogant side. Let me assure you it's not, I just wanted to bring the conversation on more solid and objective ground, away from just shouting "I think this is GREAT" "No I thing this is BAD". The point was to underline two things which I think are true. The first, that there is an unusual ratio of named characters in this release. The second is that the majority of the community probably won't play more than one of those, occasionally, making it a bit of a weird release. Those are still technically opinions, however they're informed opinions based in the objective reality, as well as my observation over playing AoS since release of how many named characters people play in their lists. 

TLDR: Thanks for being chill, I agree with your sentiments however I had valid reasons for putting things across how I did, let's all try to give well-informed, high quality opinions and debate  

[Gotz]

soooo, I've just seen this on twitter. The torso-neck vampire strikes again

[Chikrit]

Isn't it strange that in the group photo there are all the new things and some of the old that suppossedly stays (vargheists, corpse cart, zombie dragon) but no sign of Neferata or Mannfred?