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Soulblight Gravelords News, Rumours and Speculation


Neil Arthur Hotep

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22 hours ago, Doko said:

If new skeleton kit gonna replace the old kit. What gonna happen to the skeleton horde start collecting?

Gw wont keep it if the skeleton kit is disscounted and replaced for other.

So i dont know what do,start my vampire army getting this start collecting?but i have fear because it isnt safe even if all the units gonna stay in the tome but if i wait to see the tome to see what units are there maybe be too much late and the start collecting is  deleted allready

The Skeleton Horde SC is only £7 more than buying the Mortarch by themselves so even if the Black Knights are replaced you've barely lost any money and will probably be able to Ebay them for a little more than that later down the line.

Also even if you want to buy the new Deathrattle Skeletons, you can use the ones from the SC for a bit so you don't have to buy multiple boxes right away and/or gives you an opportunity to practise painting them if you're so inclined.

Edit: Turns out Mortarch kit is Direct Only, so buying the Start Collecting is actually CHEAPER if you buy it from a third party. So yeah, go for it if you plan on getting Mannfred or Neferata.

Edited by Clan's Cynic
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For Vampire Lords I would love to have an official Anvil of Apotheosis range...

basic for 140 like now, maybe with a 5+ ward...

choose your dynasty with one power for 30 points...

build your own sigvald for 260? Take nulahmia and make him progenitor/ chosen of Neferata with 3+ ward and crazy... or Chosen of Abhorash blender 

valid hero options have been shown in Hedonites and other books... Be’lakor 

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19 minutes ago, feraxil said:

For vampire flavor, I think vampires should gain wounds like we see in the Strength from Victory ability that Megabosses have. 

I think avoiding the design space of other armies/ units is important. TBH if vamps come out and they're just 1:1 copies of other armies /units ill be disappointed 

I think vamp lords could have unique flavor and mechanics. For example, vampires could require something extra to kill them, i.e. no single blow/activation will do it. Imagine "if a vampire lord is slain by an enemy, for the first time, set their wound counter to 1 instead. All additional wounds that enemy unit have dealt are negated. This vampire lord cannot be slain this turn" 

gives your heroes a chance to stay resilient and fight longer/heal up 

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So I know I'm an outlier on this, but what exactly is it about Abhorash that everyone likes so much?  He always struck me as an emo and mary-sueish character, the sort that I'd expect the fandom to mostly make fun of not latch onto unironically, and a wildly poor fit for the faction in general regardless.  Akin to wanting there to be a holy, good guy daemon prince of order to be buddy buddy with Sigmar, and wanting that character to be the most important and most powerful special character in the chaos daemons army book.

I mean, on a "I remember being a teenager" level I can sort of understand the appeal of the "super dangerous but also super handsome and noble vampire warrior prince who's actually the most honorable and good of anybody and also the best fighter in the world, and he doesn't kill innocent people to drink blood (except for one time that he's so sad and tormented about forever) and he doesn't trust people because they took advantage of him but really deep down he's a good guy who hates all the bad guy vampires and protects the innocent people from them, and if your handsome brettonian prince OC is also a super pure and special noble warrior then he can earn the sad vampire's respect and maybe heal his tormented heart with a sexy bare chested sword fight (and some kissing)".

And, like, I could even see such a character existing in a Warhammer setting as a sort of fun parody - like maybe give him 'glittering armor' that imposes a penalty on attacks against him just to hang a lamp shade on it.  Or, to use a reference from more in my age range (so that we're clear that I'm not just mocking the younger folks), work out a deal with David Boreanaz's agent to use his face for the art and mini.  But even if you were to make him a character with an actual model and rules, I don't see why he would be a character in a Vampire Counts army book.  Make him a Sigmarine, or part of a revamped (if you'll pardon the pun) brettonian faction, or a wandering lone character available to all order armies like Gotrek.  Putting him in a vampire counts army just seems to undercut the entire character of the army as a threatening antagonist faction.

Edited by Sception
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19 minutes ago, Sception said:

So I know I'm an outlier on this, but what exactly is it about Abhorash that everyone likes so much?  He always struck me as an emo and mary-sueish character, the sort that I'd expect the fandom to mostly make fun of not latch onto unironically, and a wildly poor fit for the faction in general regardless.  Akin to wanting there to be a holy, good guy daemon prince of order to be buddy buddy with Sigmar, and wanting that character to be the most important and most powerful special character in the chaos daemons army book.

I mean, on a "I remember being a teenager" level I can sort of understand the appeal of the "super dangerous but also super handsome and noble vampire warrior prince who's actually the most honorable and good of anybody and also the best fighter in the world, and he doesn't kill innocent people to drink blood (except for one time that he's so sad and tormented about forever) and he doesn't trust people because they took advantage of him but really deep down he's a good guy who hates all the bad guy vampires and protects the innocent people from them, and if your handsome brettonian prince OC is also a super pure and special noble warrior then he can earn the sad vampire's respect and maybe heal his tormented heart with a sexy bare chested sword fight (and some kissing)".

And, like, I could even see such a character existing in a Warhammer setting as a sort of fun parody - like maybe give him 'glittering armor' that imposes a penalty on attacks against him just to hang a lamp shade on it.  Or, to use a reference from more in my age range (so that we're clear that I'm not just mocking the younger folks), work out a deal with David Boreanaz's agent to use his face for the art and mini.  But even if you were to make him a character with an actual model and rules, I don't see why he would be a character in a Vampire Counts army book.  Make him a Sigmarine, or a lone character available to all order armies like Gotrek.  Putting him in a vampire counts army just seems to undercut the entire character of the army as a threatening antagonist faction.

For me he was always portrayed rather well; not wanting to ever be a vampire, being tricked into it unlike the others, finding better routes to channel his curse.  In all the literature I have read that he features in (which granted isn't a lot and mostly seems to be a labor of love from Josh Reynolds) he is made out to be the greatest warrior ever and the game is called warhammer.

Arguably he is a much better fit than Neferata in a game that represents fighting battles/wars not subterfuge. But also there is the whole thing where at the end of the day he is actually still begrudgingly loyal to Neferata as he is her champion. I've always loved his story, curing himself of vampirism and then being just a sort of nomadic warrior and standing with Gilles Le Breton at the end. It was great.

Let me be clear, if so many other world that was characters hadn't been bought back I would not be as keen on seeing Abhorash. But they have even after some were explicitly killed and urinated on.

 

I do agree he wouldn't really fit in a vampire army given his history, so that is why I don't think he will be in it but I personally am not prepared to collect a non death army just to have Abhorash.

Edited by El Syf
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22 minutes ago, El Syf said:

For me he was always portrayed rather well; not wanting to ever be a vampire, being tricked into it unlike the others, finding better routes to channel his curse.  In all the literature I have read that he features in (which granted isn't a lot and mostly seems to be a labor of love from Josh Reynolds) he is made out to be the greatest warrior ever and the game is called warhammer.

Arguably he is a much better fit than Neferata in a game that represents fighting battles/wars not subterfuge. But also there is the whole thing where at the end of the day he is actually still begrudgingly loyal to Neferata as he is her champion. I've always loved his story, curing himself of vampirism and then being just a sort of nomadic warrior and standing with Gilles Le Breton at the end. It was great.

Let me be clear, if so many other world that was characters hadn't been bought back I would not be as keen on seeing Abhorash. But they have even after some were explicitly killed and urinated on.

The "sad noble good guy vampire who was tricked into being a vampire" is a pretty common trope in modern vampire fiction (fan and otherwise), and that trope combined with Abhorash being the 'greatest warrior ever' and his stories being a 'labor of love' on the part of a particular author reinforce rather than rebut my feelings that he's a kind of mary sueish character.

And again, even if he were to be brought back, being a 'self cured vampire warrior nomad who shows up randomly to help good guys in need" sounds like it wants a gotrek style implementation as a stand alone character available to heroic factions, not to be a special character in a villainous faction book.  You can't even bring him back and say 'he's on team vampire because he's loyal to his oath to neferata even if he doesn't like her' because that oath is from the old world and even the characters from the old world don't really remember those sorts of specific details from it anymore.

Abhorash isn't a bad fit for the game, the sigmarine faction has more than it's fair share of exactly this sort of noble and pure but sad and tormented superheroes, hence my stating that Abhorash would be a better fit there.  I just don't see him as even remotely a good fit for the Soulblight Gravelords faction.

13 minutes ago, Clewzy said:

I'd rather Vlad came back rather than Abhorash. From a narrative perspective I always found it odd Nagash brought Mannfred back instead of Vlad

I'd also rather vlad than abhorash, but I'd rather not vlad either.  Mannfred's a more interesting character when vlad isn't around, and vlad has now had two solid endings to his narrative ark, hoping for a third would be pushing luck past the breaking point, imo.

Edited by Sception
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Different strokes for different folks. I love Abhorash and if it wasn't for him and the Red Duke's backgrounds (Both of whom didn't have rules by the time I started WFB as Circle of Blood was an edition prior to my get involved in WFB and obviously Abhorash has never had rules) I wouldn't have switched from 40k and probably wouldn't still be in the hobby. So I would find it exceptionnaly nice from a personal standpoint if Abhorash did get a model and rules, again I do actually agree with you that he should be a standalone like Gotrek but I can't see that happening.

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Don't get me wrong.  Despite not being a huge fan of the character (at least not unironically), I'd still love to see a model and rules for Abhorash.  But in the old world game, for the brettonian army.  Not in AoS and especially not in Soulblight Gravelords.

Though if it happens I won't be angry or upset about it.  As you say, different strokes and all.

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10 minutes ago, El Syf said:

Different strokes for different folks. I love Abhorash and if it wasn't for him and the Red Duke's backgrounds (Both of whom didn't have rules when by the time I started WFB as Circle of Blood was an edition prior to my get involved in WFB) I wouldn't have switched from 40k and probably wouldn't still be in the hobby. So I would find it exceptionnaly nice from a personal standpoint if Abhorash did get a model and rules, again I do actually agree with you that he should be a standalone like Gotrek but I can't see that happening.

Abhorash is mostly a mystery, which is appealing since GW could do such a lot with this character. I don‘t see how he is a Mary Sue in any way tbh. All he is good at is fighting (in which he is the best)

Vlad was cool in the end times, yet he is just so generic with his Romeo and Juliet stance towards Isabella. *yawn

Edited by JackStreicher
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I like Abhorash because he makes Death/Vampires more flavourful and distinct from Chaos, representing that they're more independent and 'freewilled' than merely "I want to take over the world/destroy everything because I'm such a ******" compared to Chaos, sort of like how Vlad had 'good' intentions and was a half-decent ruler - far from a saint by any stretch. Chaos will almost universally have outright villainous, complete monsters for characters (no matter how many times people bring up 'but Khorne represented martial honour in a book thirty years ago...') but I'd like Abhorash to represent the side of Death that could, however small, show them as more than complete monsters.

Mostly though, I just love the visual design of Blood Dragons more than any other Bloodline. Even if we ignore Abhorash, I still like their warped and twisted knightly aspect (they're still villainous, just more Noble Demon than Complete ******) visually and in terms of lore. Naturally, getting Abhorash as a centrepiece would do wonders for potential Blood Dragon additions as more than just the one Knight unit.

Edited by Clan's Cynic
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I’d much rather Vlad then Abhoresh as well.  
 

I was always surprised Mannfred came back.  Vlad is awesome and Mannfred has always struck me as a mustache twirling villain.  Vlad has the whole twisted nobility thing going on, he’s a monster sure, but he does it with class.  Mannfred is evil because... he’s Mannfred?

is Mannfred going to stab you in the back...yes because he’s Mannfred.  No other reason.  He’s a cliche of himself at this point and quite boring to read about because you know he’s going to be EVIL and he’s going to ****** up.

I am glad Nef got brought back.  She’s pretty dope.

Edited by Siphon
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I'd be pretty happy to have no more old world vamps included. It should be left at Nef and Manny. AoS is at a strong point in its narrative and it doesn't have to rely on Fantasy. No one predicted Olynder or Katakros, for example, and both are fantastic additions to Death. 

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22 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

Abhorash is mostly a mystery, which is appealing since GW could do such a lot with character. I don‘t see how he is a Mary Sue in any way tbh.

"He's from an evil faction but really he's actually a good guy, and not just any good guy he's the most noble and honorable out of anybody" and "he's a vampire but since he's a good guy he doesn't want to kill people and drink their blood, so he found the special secret way that nobody else knew to cure his blood thirst forever utterly undermining the entire concept of vampirism within the setting" and "he's the best warrior out of anyone ever forever" are the parts of his story that, to me, read like fanfiction from an author who's maybe a bit too enamored of their OC.  And those are, like, the defining traits of his character.  I can understand if he doesn't feel that way to you, but certainly you could at least see how he might read that way to someone else, no?

 

14 minutes ago, Clan's Cynic said:

I like Abhorash because he makes Death/Vampires more flavourful and distinct from Chaos.

I'd rather Death be flavorful and distinct in ways other than being 'not as much a bad guy'.  Two bad guys can be enemies and evil in entirely distinct ways and even both sometimes ally with good guys against the other bad guy without undermining the threat of one of them by saying they're 'less evil' or 'sometimes good'.

Edited by Sception
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I guess if they gave Vhodrai a bit more attention lore wise and made him even better than he is now rule wise (I still think since the Ethereal Amulet isn't a thing your better off taking him than standard VLoZD). That could be an option that would ease the blow of no Abhorash, I like Vhodrai just doesn't seem to have had much thrown his way to make me care about him from a lore standpoint.

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5 minutes ago, Sception said:

"He's from an evil faction but really he's actually a good guy, and not just any good guy he's the most noble and honorable out of anybody" and "he's a vampire but since he's a good guy he doesn't want to kill people and drink their blood, so he found the special secret way that nobody else knew to cure his blood thirst forever" and "he's the best warrior out of anyone ever forever" are the parts of his story that, to me, read like fanfiction from an author who's maybe a bit too enamored of their OC.  And those are, like, the defining traits of his character.  I can understand if he doesn't feel that way to you, but certainly you could at least see how he might read that way to someone else, no?

I'd rather Death be flavorful and distinct in ways other than being 'not as much a bad guy'.  Two bad guys can be enemies and evil in entirely distinct ways and even both sometimes ally with good guys against the other bad guy without undermining the threat of one of them by saying they're 'less evil' or 'sometimes good'.

Well, Abhorash isn't a good guy, he's just got more honour to him than most of the vampiric cast. Challenging random powerful heroes to duels to feed on them/turn them against their will isn't exactly heroic, he's just got more honour to him than "and I will use every underhanded trick to win them over." He's the Black Knight from Monty Python, just a lot more competent about it. 

I'd argue Mannfred's weirdly fetishistic need to backstab everybody reads worse than a vampire who still retains some honour, especially when he's brought back for no other reason than having a model during the End Times.

Besides, about half of Warhammer's characters are "probably the best X out of anyone ever forever." That'd not be a trait unique to Abhorash in AoS.

Edited by Clan's Cynic
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15 minutes ago, El Syf said:

I guess if they gave Vhodrai a bit more attention lore wise and made him even better than he is now rule wise (I still think since the Ethereal Amulet isn't a thing your better off taking him than standard VLoZD). That could be an option that would ease the blow of no Abhorash, I like Vhodrai just doesn't seem to have had much thrown his way to make me care about him from a lore standpoint.

I love vhordrai conceptually.  The Castlevania-esque gimmick of his tower fortress appearing suddenly and unexpectedly out of the mists of shyish, his blood knights riding out to cull the local population, dragging the weak back to feast on in the banquet hall while those strong enough to put up a real fight are offered immortality as vampires in his knightly court?  That's a great gimmick, a great concept for AoS.  That's a take on a vampiric knightly order with their own sense of honour that doesn't sell out the horror or villainy of vampirism in the process, and the castle in particular is the sort of high fantasy concept that fits right in to Age of Sigmar.

But we don't yet really have any characterization or personal history for Vhordrai himself yet, so I can't really say whether I like him as a character or not.  Lots of potential there, though, and I'd love for him to get some more attention, and maybe a bespoke model, in the new battle tome.

Edited by Sception
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5 hours ago, Clan's Cynic said:

The Skeleton Horde SC is only £7 more than buying the Mortarch by themselves so even if the Black Knights are replaced you've barely lost any money and will probably be able to Ebay them for a little more than that later down the line.

Also even if you want to buy the new Deathrattle Skeletons, you can use the ones from the SC for a bit so you don't have to buy multiple boxes right away and/or gives you an opportunity to practise painting them if you're so inclined.

Edit: Turns out Mortarch kit is Direct Only, so buying the Start Collecting is actually CHEAPER if you buy it from a third party. So yeah, go for it if you plan on getting Mannfred or Neferata.

Yes,i gonna grab one before the tome but i gonna wait to see next reveal,i wanna know if we gonna get one new dragon or not.

If we wont get it,then i gonna grab one skeleton and fec star collectings(i need get to 80€ to avoid transport fees so i need more than only the skeleton start)

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14 minutes ago, Sception said:

The Castlevania-esque gimmick of his fortress

And I dig the look of all the new freaks...

abby or vlad, I kinda don’t care, both had their last stand, maybe it is best to design something new and get on with that.
As stated above, Prince Charming Vhordrai is on the run, his story still has a bunch of blank spots , he has a non-Lord warscroll, he parasites the VloZd sprue... before reanimating something that was ended in a kinda rad way and making up another middleweight character that only halfway meets expectations...

the new bunch of crazies might be the new troupe for a menagerie of blood suckers. They have a queen , maybe they’ll also get a king...

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44 minutes ago, Sception said:

He's from an evil faction but really he's actually a good guy, and not just any good guy he's the most noble and honorable out of anybody" and "he's a vampire but since he's a good guy he doesn't want to kill people and drink their blood, so he found the special secret way that nobody else knew to cure his blood thirst forever utterly undermining the entire concept of vampirism within the setting" and "he's the best warrior out of anyone ever forever" are the parts of his story that, to me, read like fanfiction from an author who's maybe a bit too enamored of their OC.  And those are, like, the defining traits of his character.  I can understand if he doesn't feel that way to you, but certainly you could at least see how he might read that way to someone else, no?

Not really. No one said he is a good guy, he is a fighter and he lives strictly by honor. That does not make him good. He can still see all non-warriors as unworthy cattle or might get a murderous tantrum if someone is not acting according to his code of honor.

I never read that he was a good guy, anywhere.

What makes him special is that he turned into another kind of vamp-being by drinking the blood of an elder dragon, which saturated his thirst for blood.

My issue with the way you see him is that a big part of your picture of Abho seems to be a interpretation upon a interpretation (without, perhaps  ever having read about Abho?), based on snippets you‘ve heard?

 

@Honk I‘d like that as well! :)

Edited by JackStreicher
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46 minutes ago, Sception said:

But we don't yet really have any characterization or personal history for Vhordrai himself yet, so I can't really say whether I like him as a character or not.  Lots of potential there, though, and I'd love for him to get some more attention, and maybe a bespoke model, in the new battle tome.

I think this is a problem for some AoS (and more recent 40k) characters, they're just kind of... nothing. I don't think it's even necessarily down to the lack of text written about them, just that e.g. almost every stormcast or new primaris character is by design just Named Captain/Lord Celestant from X chapter/stormhost, nothing beyond that. It doesn't have to be that way - Liege-Kavalos Zandtos for example gains a lot through a few lines about his history and nihilistic philosophy - but it seems to be the default. Vhordai at least has a gimmick. Two even, (i) rebelled against Nagash and (ii) stuck in his apparating castle, but these are really best understood as potential hooks rather than actual qualities of the character, they don't tell us much detail about him.

RE: Abhorash, I get the point about him covering the slightlybetterifyousquintatit 'nobility' aspect of WHFB vampirism but frankly Vlad did it better and with more complexity, even if he's still pretty archetypal. There was a tension there, how long could he actually keep this up, was it ever sincere, did sincerity actually matter, etc. By comparison Abhorash did come off as something of a wandering shonen anime character/deviantart OC, drank the special blood, obsessed with training, capital-B best warrior in the world.

I'd like that noble angle picked up and explored in AoS but either way it would be better done with a new character.

Edited by sandlemad
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1 hour ago, Sception said:

So I know I'm an outlier on this, but what exactly is it about Abhorash that everyone likes so much?  He always struck me as an emo and mary-sueish character, the sort that I'd expect the fandom to mostly make fun of not latch onto unironically, and a wildly poor fit for the faction in general regardless.  Akin to wanting there to be a holy, good guy daemon prince of order to be buddy buddy with Sigmar, and wanting that character to be the most important and most powerful special character in the chaos daemons army book.

I mean, on a "I remember being a teenager" level I can sort of understand the appeal of the "super dangerous but also super handsome and noble vampire warrior prince who's actually the most honorable and good of anybody and also the best fighter in the world, and he doesn't kill innocent people to drink blood (except for one time that he's so sad and tormented about forever) and he doesn't trust people because they took advantage of him but really deep down he's a good guy who hates all the bad guy vampires and protects the innocent people from them, and if your handsome brettonian prince OC is also a super pure and special noble warrior then he can earn the sad vampire's respect and maybe heal his tormented heart with a sexy bare chested sword fight (and some kissing)".

And, like, I could even see such a character existing in a Warhammer setting as a sort of fun parody - like maybe give him 'glittering armor' that imposes a penalty on attacks against him just to hang a lamp shade on it.  Or, to use a reference from more in my age range (so that we're clear that I'm not just mocking the younger folks), work out a deal with David Boreanaz's agent to use his face for the art and mini.  But even if you were to make him a character with an actual model and rules, I don't see why he would be a character in a Vampire Counts army book.  Make him a Sigmarine, or part of a revamped (if you'll pardon the pun) brettonian faction, or a wandering lone character available to all order armies like Gotrek.  Putting him in a vampire counts army just seems to undercut the entire character of the army as a threatening antagonist faction.

To me tha i am new to vampires:

Aborash:badass hero who could figth hundreds(or thousands?) Free people alone and not died,killed the biggest and badass dragon he alone,and moreover only drink from bad persons.

Neferata: lost in a 1vs1 againsth kalida in end times,only stay at shadows and is a scheme\political character

Manfred:a weak hero that loose every war and combat that he does,and a coward that run away at every chance with no honor only to live other day.ohhh and he was the fault of end of fantasy in end of times. 

Vlad and isabella: i dont like these romeo and juliet historys but it is interesting. I love the tougth of vlad as a berzerker going into  figths, dieing and then come back again to die again haha.

I have 34 years old and call me simple,but i LOVE the epic and heroic aborash,but i HATE the coward manfred.

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@Doko People like what they like but... that's not character, is it? This guy is a badass who is good at fighting so he is a Good And Well-Written, this other guy is a cowardly schemer so he is a Bad And Poorly Written. Like, there should be more to what makes an interesting figure than their 'power level', otherwise the Celestant Prime is the best character in AoS.

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