Soulblight Gravelords News, Rumours and Speculation

[Sception]

I am an old grognard very familiar with the old world lore, but I also don't want any more return characters*.  The two games have very different tones and settings and what makes a character cool in one imo rarely translates well to the other.  The best wargame characters have motivations, relationships, and backstories that are intrinsically connected to the setting itself, and that's basically never the case for returning oldhammer characters, at least apart from the gods that literally shaped the Mortal Realms in their image.

Raistlin Majere is a cool character in the Dragonlance books, but that doesn't mean I'd want to see him as a main character in the next Shadowrun novel.

 

*the only exceptions I'd make are for 1. characters who never really had a chance to stand out on their own in their original context, like Isabella Von Carstein, or 2. characters whose primary motivations and relationships were tied to characters that already exist in Age of Sigmar, like Khalida.

or 3. characters who could be totally re-worked in the process of translating them to the new game - making them essentially new characters but with an allusion to their old world persona baked in.  For instance, Abhorash /as/ Abhorash?  Belongs in the old world, doesn't offer anything new or interesting to the new imo.  But Abhorash as the Carrion King, his own pretentions to nobility defining the delusions of the entire FEC faction?  That I could get behind.  Or maybe Abhorash as the hinted at secret identity of the new Gilles le Breton / Green Knight equivalent in an AoS take on a Brettonia style chivalric knights faction.  Or both - FEC more or less see themselves as Bret style chivalric questing knights after all.  The Light of Eltharion is sort of close to what I'm getting at here, but would be closer if its identity /as/ Eltharion were more hinted at rather than stated outright.

Edited April 23, 2021 by Sception

[Honk]

Well, that’s the main thing isn’t it?

GDubs selling the setting short, because the fluff is not really fleshed out and they somehow can’t be bothered to... claim the realms?

Listening to some audible novels and fe undying king, neferata or soul wars hint at a rich setting and a variety of interesting factions in Shyish ... then the next book drops and it‘s kinda lackluster. 
the slaneesh story and morathi while kinda interesting,again, revive the old world. Hey look, it‘s teclis and be‘lakor hoe you two been? And Alariell, nice... maybe we find the son of Orion somewhere 

and all is just kinda piecemeal and with small incoherent bits. Hyish full of Bushido crazy  furry elves? What are Orks up to? How and why?

some realms are exclusive, like azyr, but in Shyish everybody has an outpost and whines about the noises during nighttime... GET OFF MY LAWN, BREATHING FILTH

GW, get your fluffwork done, officially, can’t buy all the army books

[idn0971]

This is why I'm really excited for the Kragnos broken realms lore since it is a completely new character that no one has ever heard of and he is the title character in an awesome narrative event where every title character has caused real narrative change

[Honk]

10 minutes ago, idn0971 said:

why I'm really excited for the Kragnos

I hoped for chaosdwarves, but your point is valid too... 😂👍

[Raptor_Jesues]

In all seriousness, yes, old characters coming back are quite unlikely and probably not too good for the narrative. The only one i see as a papable candidate is Aborash, wich is heavily hinted to be still alive in shysh under the name "The Blood Dragon" wich has been hinted at even in the blood knights WC article. I would say that there are good chances of seeing him but it is not a given

Edited April 23, 2021 by Raptor_Jesues

[pixieproxy]

This is honestly why I'm excited to see what Kritza and Annika are all about. Having too many old world characters reduces the space the new ones need to breathe. Put it in spoilers, but does Radukar die in cursed city? Or is he just driven out?

There's also the big vamp dude's tomb that was apparently in Ulfenkarn, that was guarded by the double headed wolf Radukar killed. But that is/was probably due for a later Cursed City expansion than directly for the Soulblight

Edited April 23, 2021 by pixieproxy

[idn0971]

I didn't get cursed city and I have no idea why it got canceled but I'm really hoping that any lore and models that GW may have planned for expansions don't get binned and they get released in some other format or GW resolves whatever issue caused cursed city to get canceled so that they can reprint the main game and release expansions for it. There is a lot of narrative potential and tons of new characters that could be tied to it and it would be a real shame if it all got thrown out when this is one of the first times that GW has really focused narrative attention on one place and expanded with lore and new AOS characters for that location.

Edited April 23, 2021 by idn0971
Fixed typo

[Televiper11]

I’m concerned that it will be the last 2.0 tome, which means it will have a long wait to get a 3.0 update and might lose out quickly to 3.0 powercreep

[DocKeule]

3 hours ago, Sception said:

The best wargame characters have motivations, relationships, and backstories that are intrinsically connected to the setting itself

Well there is hardly any AoS character (or faction for that matter) so far that would pass that test. The lore is mostly embarrassingly generic. Most factions are just hunting for a single resource and that is their end-all and be-all. 

[Honk]

15 minutes ago, DocKeule said:

Most factions are just hunting for a single resource and that is their end-all and be-all. 

QfT...

to be honest, Nagash has the best lore which is cartoony AF 🤣

what do Fyreslayers want? Pants? Boots? oh no, we wage war for gold 🙄

Hopefully, after 5 years most factions are present and they chantry to Flesh it out beyond, we came we conquered, then we got plot stomped, repeat

[idn0971]

57 minutes ago, Televiper11 said:

I’m concerned that it will be the last 2.0 tome, which means it will have a long wait to get a 3.0 update and might lose out quickly to 3.0 powercreep

I have to disagree that releasing at the end of 2.0 necessarily means it will be worse than the first 3.0 book. Both IDK and DOK released before 2.0 dropped and were some of the stronger books even before the broken realms updates. They did have some issues and certainly could be improved as shown but releasing at the end of the edition does not necessarily mean that they will be instantly obsolete. Power creep in general seems to be overblown in AOS since for every new DOK or LRL book there is a slaanesh or sons of behemat book. And it is hard to say that DOK is even more powerful then something like Kroak seraphon or changehost tzeentch. It is more that there are more powerful books and less powerful ones when they release during the edition cycle doesn't have a strong relation to how strong the book is.

[DocKeule]

15 minutes ago, Honk said:

Hopefully, after 5 years most factions are present and they chantry to Flesh it out beyond, we came we conquered, then we got plot stomped, repeat

They want to sell models so their focus will be on releasing new units and factions.

 

14 minutes ago, idn0971 said:

I have to disagree that releasing at the end of 2.0 necessarily means it will be worse than the first 3.0 book. Both IDK and DOK released before 2.0 dropped and were some of the stronger books even before the broken realms updates. They did have some issues and certainly could be improved as shown but releasing at the end of the edition does not necessarily mean that they will be instantly obsolete. Power creep in general seems to be overblown in AOS since for every new DOK or LRL book there is a slaanesh or sons of behemat book. And it is hard to say that DOK is even more powerful then something like Kroak seraphon or changehost tzeentch. It is more that there are more powerful books and less powerful ones when they release during the edition cycle doesn't have a strong relation to how strong the book is.

I thing it is a disadvantage (being an IDK player also). Problem is they seem to need some books to get into the groove with the main theme of a new edition. In the DoK and IDK books you could the some raw concepts but also that they were not quite there yet.

[Harioch]

About new vampires characters, I don't mind that neither Vlad or Kemmler (etc) never come back. They had a good fluff and a good ending, at least Vlad, in the end. But pn the other hand, Aborash is already hinted in AoS and he never had a model or rules back in the Old World which is a shame since he was some of their best character. Bringing him into the Mortal Realms could expend his lore (which was cool but less fleshed than Neferata or Vlad or Mannfred). Besides, his power level isn't really a problem in AoS when there is a God/Demigod at every corner of the Realms, compared to the old setting.

But the main reason I want Aborash, or a new Vlad-type-vampire-lord is because, given the recent awesome upgrades Kroak, Sigvald, Belak'or had, I want to see what GW can do with a big imposing armoured vampire (standing on a rock because that's a trend) as a big centerpiece. Even if it's a new character/mortarch I don't mind.

7 hours ago, DocKeule said:

I thing it is a disadvantage (being an IDK player also). Problem is they seem to need some books to get into the groove with the main theme of a new edition. In the DoK and IDK books you could the some raw concepts but also that they were not quite there yet.

I agree. Being a late edition or early new edition battletome can be a problem if you miss all the cool new toys (endless spells and scenery for IdK and DoK) and new theme rules (legions/skyport/etc. That Nighthaunts still missed until White Dwarf and Belakor book). It's not about power of the tome itself, as we've seen it can shift heavily (SoB, DoK, Slaanesh, Lumineths....if it's a trend Soulblight are in a dire situation ) , it's just the tools you have are lacking compared to a middle edition tome.

[Harioch]

1 minute ago, Harioch said:

About new vampires characters, I don't mind that neither Vlad or Kemmler (etc) never come back. They had a good fluff and a good ending, at least Vlad, in the end. But pn the other hand, Aborash is already hinted in AoS and he never had a model or rules back in the Old World which is a shame since he was some of their best character. Bringing him into the Mortal Realms could expend his lore (which was cool but less fleshed than Neferata or Vlad or Mannfred). Besides, his power level isn't really a problem in AoS when there is a God/Demigod at every corner of the Realms, compared to the old setting.

But the main reason I want Aborash, or a new Vlad-type-vampire-lord is because, given the recent awesome upgrades Kroak, Sigvald, Belak'or had, I want to see what GW can do with a big imposing armoured vampire (standing on a rock because that's a thing..I guess) as a big centerpiece. Even if it's a new character/mortarch I don't mind.

I agree. Being a late edition or early new edition battletome can be a problem if you miss all the cool new toys (endless spells and scenery for IdK and DoK) and new theme rules (legions/skyport/etc. That Nighthaunts still missed until White Dwarf and Belakor book). It's not about power of the tome itself, as we've seen it can shift heavily (SoB, DoK, Slaanesh, Lumineths....if it's a trend Soulblight are in a dire situation ) , it's just the tools you have are lacking compared to a middle edition tome.

 

[Harioch]

Oops double post

[pnkdth]

6 hours ago, Harioch said:

About new vampires characters, I don't mind that neither Vlad or Kemmler (etc) never come back. They had a good fluff and a good ending, at least Vlad, in the end. But pn the other hand, Aborash is already hinted in AoS and he never had a model or rules back in the Old World which is a shame since he was some of their best character. Bringing him into the Mortal Realms could expend his lore (which was cool but less fleshed than Neferata or Vlad or Mannfred). Besides, his power level isn't really a problem in AoS when there is a God/Demigod at every corner of the Realms, compared to the old setting.

 

Abhorash is also a character which I could see making it to AoS in terms of lore. The guy literally walked away, bored of the infighting and drama, to meditate in seclusion after curing himself from the thirst for blood. There are also other character which are suitably resilient and refuse to die (The Red Duke).

Though when it comes to Abhorash this opens up the possibility of representing noble warriors who strive to master their blood thirst. As a character he probably would have stood against Nagash since he never was onboard with the debauchery and hedonism of the Lahmian courts. I imagine meeting up with Neferata could get awkward and a nice source for intrigue.

Speaking of intrigue, with Nagash gone from the spotlight I hope that this opens up a more interesting dynamic between the power players in the death factions. Nagash as a character always has to fail since he has a world-ending goal in mind but the general theme of the vampire counts have always been to rule one way or another over a mix of mortal/undead empire (Necrarch's being the exception since they're pretty much aligned with Nagash in terms of end goal).

All in all, I'm hoping for rules which accommodate various bloodlines, arcane or martial focus, to create undead with a lot of character.

[warhammernerd]

What are peoples thoughts on rumoured AoS 3.0 rules and how they might affect SGL? I appreciate we have no idea about our battletome yet, but it doesn’t hurt to speculate. Will our book be written without batallions? 

My understanding of rules changes are as follows:

Battalions: as we know it, gone. Replaced by generic ones. 

Charge reactions: hold = +1 save, fall back = move d6” away, stand and shoot = -1 to hit.

Buffs, debuffs, stacking combos: max out at + 1 or -1

Command points: generation changing to a system closer or OBR, ie they are wiped and then refreshed each battle round.

So, how would either an under elite melee army or an attrition based swamp army fair in this new paradigm?

Edited April 24, 2021 by warhammernerd

[Raptor_Jesues]

1 hour ago, warhammernerd said:

What are peoples thoughts on rumoured AoS 3.0 rules and how they might affect SGL? I appreciate we have no idea about our battletome yet, but it doesn’t hurt to speculate. Will our book be written without batallions? 

My understanding of rules changes are as follows:

Battalions: as we know it, gone. Replaced by generic ones. 

Charge reactions: hold = +1 save, fall back = move d6” away, stand and shoot = -1 to hit.

Buffs, debuffs, stacking combos: max out at + 1 or -1

Command points: generation changing to a system closer or OBR, ie they are wiped and then refreshed each battle round.

So, how would either an under elite melee army or an attrition based swamp army fair in this new paradigm?

not gonna lie, i hate most of this. The command point thing is cool but the rest can freely burn in hell forever

[warhammernerd]

16 minutes ago, Raptor_Jesues said:

i hate most of this.

Interesting. Care to share your thoughts on why exactly? I’m actually feeling the opposite, but I can totally see why people mightn’t be keen on it all.

[El Syf]

2 hours ago, warhammernerd said:

What are peoples thoughts on rumoured AoS 3.0 rules and how they might affect SGL? I appreciate we have no idea about our battletome yet, but it doesn’t hurt to speculate. Will our book be written without batallions? 

My understanding of rules changes are as follows:

Battalions: as we know it, gone. Replaced by generic ones. 

Charge reactions: hold = +1 save, fall back = move d6” away, stand and shoot = -1 to hit.

Buffs, debuffs, stacking combos: max out at + 1 or -1

Command points: generation changing to a system closer or OBR, ie they are wiped and then refreshed each battle round.

So, how would either an under elite melee army or an attrition based swamp army fair in this new paradigm?

If charge reactions becomes a thing we may as well go back to square bases rnf and call it warhammer fantasy battles 9th edition!

Dont misunderstand me; I like oldhammer, however I’ve also fully ported over to age of Sigmar and bar some minor gripes (as you have with any game) I like it. What do you mean by generic battalions? That sounds really dodgy...

[Raptor_Jesues]

22 minutes ago, warhammernerd said:

Interesting. Care to share your thoughts on why exactly? I’m actually feeling the opposite, but I can totally see why people mightn’t be keen on it all.

happily:
i would have liked to use a cool and tematic battalion before they get squatted, also "generic battalions" sounds rather sketchy as El Syf says.
Charges reaction are cancer in my eyes, just making shooting armies better, absolutely hate it
the buff and debuff is going to do absolutely nothing to top armies like lumineth that have so many different kind of power ups that encourring in the same one is almost impossible (could be wrong on this one)

Edited April 24, 2021 by Raptor_Jesues

[pnkdth]

40 minutes ago, El Syf said:

If charge reactions becomes a thing we may as well go back to square bases rnf and call it warhammer fantasy battles 9th edition!

The rules proposed aren't nearly on the same level, besides we still move like have been, we're not stuck with ranks, block movement and <insert 23492343 other rules which makes AoS different from WHFB>. Let's not blow things out of proportions, is what I'm saying.

Pros of the changes:

Modifiers being capped at +/-1. More varied builds and killing builds which relies of abusing mechanics. There's nothing good about 1+ re-rollable saves or impossible to hit units.

CPs being generated per hero phase. Makes them more tactical instead of encouraging hoarding. You're encouraged to be more active and spend them.

Battalions limits entire battletomes in builds and list variety. You'll actually start seeing people bringing units they like as opposed to battalion tax and overpowered battalions. General battalions will only make the game better.

Double turn allowing me to burn objectives. Jolly good. Won't be a no-brainer now since the opponent can actually impact your scoring ability. So a take double requires you play well and weigh options. Charge reactions also plays a part in making the double turn more interactive on behalf of the player who lost priority (this is a huge plus for the addition of charge reactions). +1 to armour is pretty neat for attrition for slower units, for instance.

Remember, this is just a handful of the rules and they apply to everyone. I want to hear more on shooting and how things are impacted in other phases before I go yay or nay.

Edited April 24, 2021 by pnkdth

[warhammernerd]

Solid views, totally agreed.  I see it as nothing but good news. Right now AoS is in a bit of a mess. Stacking buffs and combos is lame, and OTT cookie cutter battalions really limit the range of armies and more importantly UNITS which see tabletop. It’s next to impossible at this stage for them to even attempt to balance them all. The suggested approach is for them to maintain use within narrative and open play, and for competitive play to be more balanced, ie battalions which favour more a hugely varied and diverse choice when it comes to what can be picked (if this is how it turns out). As for stand and shoot making shooting units better, I’m not sure I agree. My hunch is that shooting into combat will be a thing of the past, in which case, this will be needed for them to stand a chance of surviving. 

[Il Maestro]

54 minutes ago, pnkdth said:

CPs being generated per hero phase. Makes them more tactical instead of encouraging hoarding. You're encouraged to be more active and spend them.

I don’t disagree with the rest of your post, but just to clarify - why do you think being forced to use all of your resources every turn confers more tactical ability then being given the choice? Somewhat beside the point, but I would have thought that having to make decisions with pros and cons to either, where you might suffer a worse outcome now for the delayed gratification of an advantage later was inherently more tactical than ‘must use all CP now or lose them’.

 

Actually don’t mind the changes rumoured so far otherwise. Stand and shoot/charge reactions gives some extra agency to players easily, and it could very well be balanced to not making shooting OP. There are a multitude of other game systems that implement something similar, and often shooting is not at the forefront of competitive builds.

[warhammernerd]

Charge reactions have been a thing in Warhammer for 25 years, it’s only since AoS they have removed this. Which if we’re honest, was part of an overall strategy to simplify and streamline the game. But, the core mechanics of the system are beginning to get crushed under increasingly nuanced and complex battletomes. It’s time some key principles of the game got a revisit, and I think in doing so it will open up the game and invite a much greater depth of strategy. Otherwise, we have what we have now. Rules within the battletomes being out of whack with what can be done within the basic game. 

Edited April 25, 2021 by warhammernerd