Evil Bob Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 2 hours ago, Clan's Cynic said: I could maybe see Nagash getting another Warscroll with one of those Gotrek-esq "This character may be taken in any <Death> allegiance force and counts as part of that army" since they seem more fond of those kind of rules these days. That is what I would prefer. Archeon has a chaos universal warscroll and it’s pretty solid. When it comes to Death stuff GW likes to do things the hard complicated way so I try not to assume or get my hopes up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warhammernerd Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 (edited) My hunch, all nighthaunt, Nagash, Arkhan and morghasts gone. The only thing which I’m on the fence about is the mortis engine. OBR needs its own vibe, and Nagash isn’t going to be leading some raggedy ass Vamps, he wants to be with his boy Katacross. Manfred will stay, I hope... and if so, he seriously needs beefing up as everyone says. Nef, she will also stay and same again. Vhordrai remain, he’s aiiiit. Edited March 22, 2021 by warhammernerd 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gothmaug Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 I’m actually not sure this will replace Legions of Nagash. Soulblight might just be it’s own thing, like flesh eaters, nighthaunt,etc. we could still get an updated legions of nagash battletome down the line, one that draws from ALL the death sub factions now they they will all have a relatively new codex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStreicher Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 Alright my Wishlist: - New Centerpiece Model - Beefing up of Neferata & Mannfred with their own Sub-Allegiances (Manfred being able to take Freeguilders 1 in 4) - New Skeletons (check) - Ditching of Graveguards and instead beefing up the Skeletons. This will open up the "heavy infantry slot" the next unit can fill - Elite Vampire Infantry with Helbards - New Direwolves - New Fellbats & swarms (check) - New Varghulf (check) - New Unique Characters (check) - Zombie Ogres (half check) - Blood Knights (ultra check) - Some entirely new unit we did not expect - New Zombies (check) - Ditching of the Mortis Engine and all the Palanquins (personally I don't like them. The models suffer so much from being designed for a rectangular chariot base.) - One Vampire Hero for each classic Bloodline 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doko Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 (edited) I know i gonna be alone.....but for me all these vyrkos vampires are UGLYS, as a 0 in my tastes. I love the armored vampires as vlad,manfred,neferata,potato leaked vampirelord or the shadespire vampires(even the berzerker with wings) I hope i can play without any vyrkos vampire or i gonna proxy them with the shadespire that are god. Edited March 22, 2021 by Doko 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiotrW Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 My wild idea that will probably not happen, but... BR: Teclis will feature the LRL fighting Nagash and his forces. How about... some vampy betrayal, then? At the key moment, Nagash gets stabbed in the back by Neferata (maybe even literally). He doesn't die (... can he even die at this point?), but it gives the Soulblight the possibility to stage a rebellion... It all ends with the Soulblight breaking away from GA Death and joining GA Order! Along with the FEC, actually. Then, Neferata gets an even cooler model and she, the vamps and the ghouls can be fielded along the SCE or DoK. And I'm very happy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 the thing about nef in the fluff is that she's as poorly treated as she has been in the rules - ie regularly overlooked entirely and when the writers bother to include her not very well handled at all. Her past depictions have often been really kind of shamefully bad. Staying true to them would be no virtue. Her fiction write ups have her /useless/. Can't fight her way out of a paper bag, not an especially potent spellcaster, thinks she's clever but she isn't - the plots of Arkhan, Mannfred, and Nagash all regularly leave her in the dust. Never gets her way, never dupes anyone, occasionally used as a patsy, I'm sorry but her fiction appearances are bad and we need to abandon that portrayal. Clever and manipulative characters can also be powerful. Take Morathi of late for an example. As with Morathi, it would be a simple matter to write some new lore where Neferata gets a power up to make her a more legitimate threat. Not on Morathi's level, mind, I'm not saying she should be one of the gods of AoS, but right now both her rules AND her portrayal in the narrative are FAR below what they should be, and both could really stand to be bumped up considerably. Again, there's no getting around that she is the queen of all vampires and progeniter of the entire Soulblight curse. All the power that any vampire has derives from hers, their strength some fraction /of hers/, and she's a mortarch on top of that. She should be the strongest and most willful individual example of the strongest and most willful class of undead. By all rights she should be flat out the most powerful and competent of all of Nagash's mortarchs, a tool too useful to abandon, but a potential rival too threatening to use freely lest her power and influence grow out of hand. That she hasn't been that - in both the rules and the fluff - is a mark against both and a reason to change both going forward. 5 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warhammernerd Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 1 hour ago, Gothmaug said: I’m actually not sure this will replace Legions of Nagash. Soulblight might just be it’s own thing, like flesh eaters, nighthaunt,etc. we could still get an updated legions of nagash battletome down the line, one that draws from ALL the death sub factions now they they will all have a relatively new codex Won’t happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 30 minutes ago, warhammernerd said: Won’t happen. Yeah, this book replacing the LoN battletome is pretty much confirmed from the description of the battle tome on the warcom article for faith & damnation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin of Khorne Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 This release is everything I ever wanted lol. I’ve loved vampire counts since 5th/6th edition. I hope there are more models in the book than what we’ve seen. I’m also glad our vampires have hair again haha 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herohammer Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 3 hours ago, warhammernerd said: The only thing which I’m on the fence about is the mortis engine. I think it will remain since it doesn't fit any other army and forms 1/2 of a dual kit with another 2 units in the book. I mean they could make it a night haunt model but that would be really weird since it would be the first case of making a dual kit cross faction after the launch of aos. I don't see the coven throne/palanquin going away since they are pretty new plastic vampire models in army named for the vampire subfaction. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lare2 Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 Visually, everything about the Mortis Engine screams NH... but then it does have a fleshy Necromancer on it, which, if it did cross over, would be a first for the NH range. Who knows ey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Syf Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 So do we reckon crimson court will be out before cursed city? that could be our first chance to see what new vamps look like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sartxac Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 I think that the palanquins are one of the best models of legions of Nagash. I don't want them eliminated. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raptor_Jesues Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 (edited) my two-ish cents on how the units we currently have should be improved/fixed: -Nagash: pretty fine as in the ossiarchs -Arkhan, Mannfred, Neferata: they need some extra form of wound mitigation, way too squishy for their cost. I would not like seeing them becoming cheaper but some extra skills representing their character would be nice (like a comand point stealing power for neferata to reflect her spies connections) Vhordrai: he is pretty much fine as he is, maybe his command ability could be better since you need either another big dragon or mannfred to make some use of it, which is a very costly combo. -Vampire Lord on foot: needs 3+ armor and a signature spell -Vampire Lord on Zombie dragon: signature spell sucks rather hard and could use some more rend on the lance/sword. Maybe a slight points drop -Wight King: needs more punch, his strikes being damage 2 could be enough. Also needs 3+ save -Coven Throne: its ok-ish if a bit costly. 220 would be fair i think, the handmaidens attacks need rend. -Bloodseeker Palanquin: way too costly, should be around the same cost of the throne. The spell is meh and the +1 attack bonus should be game long OR just be its command ability. -Blooknights: slap a 3+ save on them and give the lances flat 2 damage on the charge and i'm sold, should be 200 for 5 at that point though. -Fell Bats: either 4 wounds each or better save, need rend -1 -Bat swarms: mostly fine but you would not see me cry if their debuff worked in melee too. Could become an endless spell? -Vargheists: have the damn thing trigger on a 6 to wound or hit for nagash sake, it almost never happens unless you plunge them into gobbos. -Necromancer: he is actualy fine but could use a horse -Mortis engine: i actually like it as it is -Zombies: they are fine but there is way too much competition in that role. They need something special like auto ressing models at the start of the turn -Dire Wolves: maybe even too good, dont touch the good boys -Both Corpse Carts: need to do something more for deadwalkers instead of being a moving +1 to cast (wich is still nice) -Skeleton Warriors: they are very nice but seeing the models id say they are going to change, maybe have higher save -Grave Guards: need polearms and 4+ save. -Black Knights: pretty fine but a 4+ save would not hurt. Edited March 23, 2021 by Raptor_Jesues 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thamalys Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 10 hours ago, Sception said: the thing about nef in the fluff is that she's as poorly treated I'm not a huge fan of Black Library stuff to begin with (almost without fail you can see what's coming from the very start of each book - albeit exceptions exist), but I've read everything Nef-related (because... well, vampires. I am a simple man, I see vampires, I get the book) and I didn't find it entirely obnoxious. I think, on average, they have managed to get across the idea that this is an incredibly old, incredibly smart creature, with a very selfish agenda and powerful means to achieve it, often times without the rest of the world even noticing. They have also managed to make her narrative not necessarily one-sided, in that she is most definitely not invincible in a straight fight (which she almost always manages to avoid, but not quite, and that's great when that happens) nor entirely safe from cunning opponents' plans either. Another element of her narrative that I like a lot is her interaction with the other Mortarchs and Nagash as well. For one thing, she usually gets to be the most talkative of the trio (or quartet, Olynder got a decent book now, so her presence in the fluff is now established by my standards) and the one showing some wit as well. Arkhan... not my cup of tea (don't like the feeling, to give you an idea I never got a single OBR model...) and I find his relationship with Nagash a bit dull. The real loser, in my very personal opinion, is Mannfred. The fluff about him before the end times was decent. Now, he looks like a sad old chap running around without any grand plan and without showing much prowess as well. This release might change that, of course... Man, how long would we have to wait, you reckon? Seriously hyped about this one... gimme my plastic blood knights! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raptor_Jesues Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 14 minutes ago, Thamalys said: ... Man, how long would we have to wait, you reckon? Seriously hyped about this one... gimme my plastic blood knights! i would say 2 to 3 weeks 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Arthur Hotep Posted March 23, 2021 Author Share Posted March 23, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, lare2 said: Visually, everything about the Mortis Engine screams NH... but then it does have a fleshy Necromancer on it, which, if it did cross over, would be a first for the NH range. Who knows ey. I mean, we know that GW is not above sticking a new model on top of an existing kit. We have seen that for the Ghoul King on Terrorgheist. I could imagine a world where a Guardian of Souls on Mortis Engine is Nighthaunt unit. However, I believe that GW is not going to do this. The Mortis Engine is still in the style that GW want to move away from with Nighthaunt. The horsemen carrying it are all fairly recognizably Black Knights, not Nighthaunt cavalry. The time to make the Mortis Engine a Nighthaunt unit was probably a few years ago when Nighthaunt came out, not now when old LoN units are being updated or removed. That said, I'm pretty sure the Mortis Engine will just remain a Soulblight unit. Pretty sure the Necromancer is still in, so why not this kit, too? 32 minutes ago, Thamalys said: Man, how long would we have to wait, you reckon? Seriously hyped about this one... gimme my plastic blood knights! The recent pattern has been two months between announcement and release. The Crimson Court underworlds warband is coming in April, confirmed. Cursed City is probably in April as well. I would predict the full Gravelords faction in late May. Edited March 23, 2021 by Neil Arthur Hotep 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lare2 Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 19 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said: However, I believe that GW is not going to do this. The Mortis Engine is still in the style that GW want to move away from with Nighthaunt. The horsemen carrying it are all fairly recognizably Black Knights, not Nighthaunt cavalry. The time to make the Mortis Engine a Nighthaunt unit was probably a few years ago when Nighthaunt came out, not now when old LoN units are being updated or removed. That's a really good point about the cavalry and one I'd not considered. Either way, for you UK people, there'll be a Mortis Engine coming in Mortal Realms. It'll be a fantastic way to also pick up the Coven Throne and Palanquin. 20 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said: The recent pattern has been two months between announcement and release. The Crimson Court underworlds warband is coming in April, confirmed. Cursed City is probably in April as well. I would predict the full Gravelords faction in late May. Plenty of time to save up then! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Arthur Hotep Posted March 23, 2021 Author Share Posted March 23, 2021 I'm going to commit to a somewhat improbable prediction. We will, in fact, get a new Zombie Dragon kit that looks like the dragon on the Battletome. Spoiler I say this for two reasons. One, everything else on the battletome is clearly based on a model we have seen. The skeletons look exactly like the new skeltons. The Vampire Lord looks exactly like the new Vampire Lord. Only the Zombie Dragon looks different from what we know. Two, remember the Cursed City book cover? Spoiler I thought the mage in the background was supposed to be Octren Glimscry without a mask and with some artistic license. But he actually turned out to be the 9th character. To me, this reinforces the idea that we should trust the art GW releases to correspond to their models. That's why I placing my bet that there will be a new dragon. No idea how that will work. Maybe FEC keep the old kit, and Soulblight get a new one. Maybe it's a dual kit with the Terrorgheist again. Maybe it's a new type of model and you can run both the current Zombie Dragon and the new kit in Soulblight. But I really think the signs point towards a new Zombie Dragon kit at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Causalis Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 11 hours ago, Sception said: Again, there's no getting around that she is the queen of all vampires and progeniter of the entire Soulblight curse. All the power that any vampire has derives from hers, their strength some fraction /of hers/, and she's a mortarch on top of that. That's my point: This was true in WHFB, but in AoS it seems Nef is vastly less powerful - and since all her lore depicts her as being this "weak" it simply could be that this is the direction GW wants to take her. You may have to look at the possibility that your image of how Nef should be is based on her WHFB character and that she is now waaaayy less important. However, I am fairly confident that we will see some badass and powerful lore for Manni and Nef in the Gravelords BT. 1 hour ago, Raptor_Jesues said: Zombies: they are fine but there is way too much competition in that role. They need something special like auto ressing models at the start of the turn They need a clear role they can fill that isn't done (better) by the Skeletons. In Fantasy this was tarpitting the enemy. So Skeletons would be our offensive horde unit and Zombies would be for swarming objectives. This could play off of the Deadwalker keyword: Each Zombie unit auto resses X Zombies at the start of each turn for each Deadwalker hero within X". Also make their "turn the enemy into a Zombie" work on a 4+ or something. They hardly kill anything as it is and only getting more Shamblers on a 6+ might as well be ignored entirely. On the topic of Mortis Engine becoming Nighthaunt exclusive: I don't see it. It's a Necromancer on top and the thing is being pulled by (mostly) Skeletons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Arthur Hotep Posted March 23, 2021 Author Share Posted March 23, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Causalis said: They need a clear role they can fill that isn't done (better) by the Skeletons. In Fantasy this was tarpitting the enemy. So Skeletons would be our offensive horde unit and Zombies would be for swarming objectives. This could play off of the Deadwalker keyword: Each Zombie unit auto resses X Zombies at the start of each turn for each Deadwalker hero within X". Also make their "turn the enemy into a Zombie" work on a 4+ or something. They hardly kill anything as it is and only getting more Shamblers on a 6+ might as well be ignored entirely. From the looks of it, we are well on the way towards differentiating Zombies and Skeletons better this time around. I think the decision to update the skeletons sculpt was to made to signal that Deathrattle skeletons are the higher-quality horde unit this time around, while zombies are the chaff/tarpit. I think GW is mindful of not crowding the same roles too much this time around. I think they learned from the whole Ungor/Gor/Bestigor situation. From the latest preview: Quote With them march an endless regiment of fleshless soldiers equipped with all manner of rusting, chipped, and broken weaponry. The Deathrattle Skeletons form the backbone of many Soulblight Gravelords armies, lending the martial might of fallen heroes to the vampires’ dread ambitions. While former warriors may have the dubious honour of rising again as skeletons, the corpse of just about anyone can make a useful pawn, provided it hasn’t completely fallen apart. Deadwalker Zombies, as you might imagine, aren’t the fastest or most skilled of combatants, but that’s scant comfort when thousands of the blighters are slowly shuffling towards you. We also know that Gorslav will be able to summon zombies: Quote To be fair, the Gravekeeper does still use it as a spade when he’s digging up plenty of Deadwalkers to join his horde of the undead. The Zombies make perfect bodyguards, regardless of how much of their body is left. With his ability to summon new Zombies to the battlefield, Gorslav is an excellent addition to any Death army. I think the presence of a dedicated Zombie support hero is already going to help a lot in giving zombies a niche of their own. Maybe the distinction will be that you can summon zombies this time around, but only resurrect skeletons? As in, you can add more zombies to your army during play, but are stuck with the skeletons your bring at the start. In general, I wonder how they will rework the LoN summoning mechanics. I can't really see resurrecting whole units make a return. Edited March 23, 2021 by Neil Arthur Hotep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lare2 Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 32 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said: I think the decision to update the skeletons sculpt was to made to signal that Deathrattle skeletons are the higher-quality horde unit this time around, while zombies are the chaff/tarpit. I think GW is mindful of not crowing the same roles too much this time around. I think they learned from the whole Ungor/Gor/Bestigor situation. I very much believe this is the way they're gonna do it as well. I'm kinda of the opinion, with no justification whatsoever, that skellies will be in lower unit numbers this time around. I hope so anyway. I don't want to face painting another 100 of them and playing a horde really isn't kind on my lower spine! I still think they'll be battleline but they'll be more elite than zombies. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 In terms of when release will happen, keep in mind that it was a much longer wait from initial reveal to actual release for some other recent new factions, particularly slaanesh. It's entirely possible that we might be waiting till october or november. 1 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Syf Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 14 minutes ago, Sception said: In terms of when release will happen, keep in mind that it was a much longer wait from initial reveal to actual release for some other recent new factions, particularly slaanesh. It's entirely possible that we might be waiting till october or november. 100% agree, can't see them being released this before Autumn at the earliest. Crimson Court we know is April Cursded City perhaps April or May, actual Soulblight Gravelords can't see it so early tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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