Soulblight Gravelords News, Rumours and Speculation

[mrteige]

10 hours ago, Honk said:

as a purist, I‘d go full feral with grandma, her boi and puppies, Mannfred and vargheists

that sounds great from a painting perspective

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

7 hours ago, Erdemo86 said:

What do you guys think about Reikenor as ally + Chronomaric cogs. He gets +3 to cast , so cogs at 4+. Whole combo is 240 points and your whole army gets +2 move and charge. Combine this with Kastelei and seems very good!!

Rerolls affect endless spells, too, right? If so, if you are in Vyrkos, the chance of Belladamma getting Cogs out (+1 to cast, rerolling) is actually higher than Reikenor (+3 to cast). Obviously won't help in a Kastelai list, but it's nice to know.

[Erdemo86]

1 hour ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

Rerolls affect endless spells, too, right? If so, if you are in Vyrkos, the chance of Belladamma getting Cogs out (+1 to cast, rerolling) is actually higher than Reikenor (+3 to cast). Obviously won't help in a Kastelai list, but it's nice to know.

Yeah but the deal is to cast cogs, give your Vengorian or Prince V + 6 inch move. Teleport your bloodknights 9 inch away and then charge in and activate Rousing Commander. So 7 inch charge needed to get them in. If you get the spell off, your Prince could move 22 and gets charge +2.

so your BKs have a 50% chance to get in.

 

Edited May 21, 2021 by Erdemo86

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

11 minutes ago, Erdemo86 said:

Yeah but the deal is to cast cogs, give your Vengorian or Prince V + 6 inch move. Teleport your bloodknights 9 inch away and then charge in and activate Rousing Commander. So 7 inch charge needed to get them in.

I just tried to see if I could fit Cogs into a Vyrkos list I am working on. Over by 5 points. Thanks, GW, I hate this brave new world of 5 point increments.

Cogs seem good in Blood Knight heavy armies, though. Or all G-Lords armies that plan to rely heavily on deep strikes, actually, which might well be most of them. Between Gravesites, Vargheists, Legion of Night and Kastelai, we have a lot of potential means to drop 9" from an enemy unit.

[Raptor_Jesues]

ignoring the broken CA, what are you people's considerations on the wight kings? 
I feel like they are pretty meh

Edited May 21, 2021 by Raptor_Jesues

[El Syf]

3 minutes ago, Raptor_Jesues said:

ignoring the broken CA, what are you people's considerations on the wight kings? 

Use as scenery? Neither of them are bad ignoring the command ability and we have no mounted vampire but the mounted wight King doesn't really synergize with Blood Knights anyway and until it's faq'd doesn't with Black Knights either.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

12 minutes ago, El Syf said:

Use as scenery? Neither of them are bad ignoring the command ability and we have no mounted vampire but the mounted wight King doesn't really synergize with Blood Knights anyway and until it's faq'd doesn't with Black Knights either.

Neither of them are good either, though. The foot Wight King seems to have absolutely no use as long as Kritza and Annika exist, who bring more to the table for cheaper of you are not looking for specific synergies. Even if the unmounted Wight King's command ability gets fixed, I struggle to see what unit he's supposed to support. Skeletons don't need reroll 1s to hit, so it would have to be Grave Guard. But they can get a lot more out of other support heroes. The Vampire Lord's +1 attack does a lot for them, for example. But what they really want is defensive buffs.

The mounted Wight King is fast and has a 3+ save, so that's something. Too bad that he as no good synergy with Black Knights (and too bad that Black Knights are not currently worth taking anyway).

So, I guess the only use is if you want Grave Guard battleline. But that only becomes worthwhile if you want to run two blocks of them, because until then just grabbing 10 Skeletons for 85 points is a cheaper way to cover one battleline slot (and you can actually run a worthwhile general, too).

As a side note, I personally also don't find the Deathmarch battalion to be worth it anymore. +3" movement might be nice, and I would personally be willing to take 2 units of Skeletons Warriors for that benefit if it means I can get Grave Guard to go faster. But the tax of having to take both a Wight King and a unit of Black Knights is just too much.

[Tizianolol]

Guys about bases, have soulblight gravelords units loke zombies or skeletons same base as legion of nagash ones?:)

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

15 minutes ago, Tizianolol said:

Guys about bases, have soulblight gravelords units loke zombies or skeletons same base as legion of nagash ones?:)

Zombies and Skeletons yes, but other units no. Blood Knights and the generic Vampire Lord changed, for example. You can look up the size of a base that a model comes with on the web store. It will say something like this at the end of the kit's description:

Quote

The kit is comprised of 170 plastic components, with which you can assemble 20 Deathrattle Skeletons fielded in one or two units. Each group of 10 contains options to assemble one Standard Bearer and one Skeleton Champion armed with a mace or halberd. These models are supplied with 20x Citadel 25mm Round Bases.

 

[Tizianolol]

Ok thx a lot, I wanna test something in tts before buy models!

[BaylorCorvette]

3 hours ago, Raptor_Jesues said:

ignoring the broken CA, what are you people's considerations on the wight kings? 
I feel like they are pretty meh

The only thing I've considered the Wight Kings for was the Wight King on Steed to be a fast (fairly cheap) Hero to support Blood Knights. It really hurts not having a Vamp Lord on steed. If GW didn't want a Vamp Lord on steed then it would have been nice if the unit champion for Blood Knights could act similar to the Hekatos in OBR, issuing basic command abilities and Deathless Minions.

 

In regards to the Reikenor + COGs, I like it. I've considered something similar in Kastelai. I am also thinking of a list for Vyrkos using Belladamma + COGs, having a unit of Blood Knights to charge in early (very doable on boards where you and the opponent at 18" away) but also have a unit of Grave Guard pop out of the graves to also charge in. In this build I was considering Drive by Deathstentch Command Trait so everything is re-rolling wholly within 9" of the Commander.

[Doko]

3 hours ago, Raptor_Jesues said:

ignoring the broken CA, what are you people's considerations on the wight kings? 
I feel like they are pretty meh

As rules they are garbagge,nothing special and his ca of reroll 1 hits is the same than the generic of general handbook for everyone.

But the model(both versions) is great and it is pretty cheap in points,so i see some use to have a fast hero that can equip reliks and warlord traits and keep with fast units.

In general they are bad but can have any use due to low cost

[AHexInScarletRed]

What's supposed to be the best target for Prince Vhordrai's CA in a Kastellai list? 

I'm thinking of playing something along these lines:

455 Prince Vhordrai 

310 Coven Throne 

280 Vengorian Lord 

125 Necromancer 

390 Blood Knights (10)

135 Dire Wolves (10)

255 Skeletons (30)

  50 additional CP

That's 2.000 flat. The Vengorian Lord is there to have a target for Vhordrai. I mean, I could use it on the Coven Throne and get it some buffs to have it be stronger, but with the battle profile, I think it's kinda wasted. Or remove the Vengorian Lord, ignore Vhordrai's CA and only use CP on the Coven Throne's? 

Edited May 21, 2021 by AHexInScarletRed

[BaylorCorvette]

8 minutes ago, AHexInScarletRed said:

What's supposed to be the best target for Prince Vhordrai's CA in a Kastellai list? 

That's 2.000 flat. The Vengorian Lord is there to have a target for Vhordrai. I mean, I could use it on the Coven Throne and get it some buffs to have it be stronger, but with the battle profile, I think it's kinda wasted. Or remove the Vengorian Lord, ignore Vhordrai's CA and only use CP on the Coven Throne's? 

In my opinion Prince Vhordrai's Command Ability is not something you build around (unless you run a VLoZD with him), rather it is an added bonus. So I rarely consider the Command Ability when building lists with the Prince. For the June tournament I'm attending I will be running Kastelai with Prince Vhordrai and the Coven Throne with the Dolorous Guard Battalion. However, I don't expect this to be a viable list in a month or two from now. It is going to be scary with the punching power of Prince Vhordrai and the wound shrugging from the Battalion.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

20 minutes ago, AHexInScarletRed said:

The Vengorian Lord is there to have a target for Vhordrai. I mean, I could use it on the Coven Throne and get it some buffs to have it be stronger, but with the battle profile, I think it's kinda wasted. Or remove the Vengorian Lord, ignore Vhordrai's CA and only use CP on the Coven Throne's? 

I have been thinking about this, too. I don't have a definitive answer, but I will tell you my thoughts so far.

The Vhordrai CA is really strong! Fight in the hero phase is a very good ability, so naturally you would want to make use of it. But who would benefit most from it is really unclear. For one, if you want to use it, you will need to keep a second hero wholly within 12" Vhordrai, and that hero will have to be in combat. I think this will make it hard to use on something like the Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon, since that model has a huge base and hopefully if you charge something with both Vhordrai and a VLoZD, it's not alive anymore, anyway.

The Vengorian Lord seems better at first glance: Smaller base size and cheaper, so that running him along with Vhordrai does not feel like quite as much of a commitment in points. But his damage output is just OK, around 5 wounds against a 4+ save. Still, it's 5 extra wounds in the hero phase, and he helps keep Vhordrai alive with his -1 rend aura.

Maybe some of the special characters from other subfactions could be worth a look. Neferata has a chance to kill anything she wounds with her dagger. Mannfred is pretty fighty and has some nice buffs. Radukar does pretty good damage and has a few nice abilities.

If you are already running the Coven Throne, you might be a bit starved for command points, anyway, though. Because if you are not using that unit's CA as much as possible, it's not making it's points back.

Edited May 21, 2021 by Neil Arthur Hotep

[Feii]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/05/21/the-mystery-of-the-vyrkos-wolf-paws-has-been-keeping-us-up-at-night-its-time-for-answers/ 

I really like the lore. Here is hope that we will get the godbeast for them at some point.

[umpac]

2 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

Maybe some of the special characters from other subfactions could be worth a look. Neferata has a chance to kill anything she wounds with her dagger. Mannfred is pretty fighty and has some nice buffs. Radukar does pretty good damage and has a few nice abilities.

I honestly think the Vhordrai CA is a complete dud because we have no good targets. Mannfred is kind of killy i guess but his sword buff sadly ends in the same phase so you can't procc it in the hero phase and teleport where you need it in the combat phase. Vegorian Lord doesn't hit very hard at all. VLoZD slaps but drops below Mannfred levels in the hero phase since he hasn't charged. The only things that does enough to warrant a CP being spent in a CP-starved faction are other ~400pts models which is a huge point sink into just characters. Radukar is a probably the best pick, he hits as hard as Mannfred and is at least a bit cheaper than the others. Its also nice to potentially kill whatever he's fighting so he can charge and Call of the Hunt later in the turn.

It had the potential to be great, like if we could procc The Hunger in the hero phase for some extra healing, or Mannfreds sword lasted until end of turn, or if he could cast it on himself, or if it was on a cheaper hero. As @BaylorCorvette mentioned, its not strong enough to build a list around. The costs is huge and the pay off just doesn't match the investment (assuming you even get into a position to use it in the first place). Its there for the occasional rare situation where you throw it on some small char and you get that last extra wound into something you really need to kill, but not much more.

[BaylorCorvette]

It would be a MASSIVE improvement if Prince Vhordrai's CA could be used either on himself OR a SBGL unit OR a unit with the "Vampire" keyword. I would happily settle of any of the 3. Perhaps if the rumors about 3.0 are correct, that we will be generating more Command Points then this might see more use, but I rather use my scarce Command Points elsewhere (most of the time).

[RocketPropelledGrenade]

1 hour ago, BaylorCorvette said:

The only thing I've considered the Wight Kings for was the Wight King on Steed to be a fast (fairly cheap) Hero to support Blood Knights. It really hurts not having a Vamp Lord on steed. If GW didn't want a Vamp Lord on steed then it would have been nice if the unit champion for Blood Knights could act similar to the Hekatos in OBR, issuing basic command abilities and Deathless Minions.

I had a very similar thought--the Wight King on Skeletal Steed is mobile and relatively cheap, so having it available to support Blood Knights or shore up an engagement where they sniped a Necromancer or other foot hero could be very useful. I don't know if it's useful enough, but it's a hero that has been under consideration in some of my list building. It's definitely going to wait until the model is on sale outside the Start Collecting box, though.

[Thalassic Monstrosity]

Now THIS is a family tree!

[Liquidsteel]

I would have liked them to make the Mortarch's just that little bit more choppy.

A bit more Damage and Rend on certain attacks wouldn't have been a huge deal, they're already fairly pricey as they are. 

Below is Mannfred's output, both regular and then buffed with his CA.

The output when buffed is obviously quite okay, but this is without any after saves or minuses to hit or wound, of which there are plenty.

Even just bumping Gheistvor from -1 / D3 to -2 / 3 would push him over the 10 wounds to a 4+ save breakpoint.

The higher damage is obviously with my small change.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

2 minutes ago, Liquidsteel said:

I would have liked them to make the Mortarch's just that little bit more choppy.

A bit more Damage and Rend on certain attacks wouldn't have been a huge deal, they're already fairly pricey as they are. 

Below is Mannfred's output, both regular and then buffed with his CA.

The output when buffed is obviously quite okay, but this is without any after saves or minuses to hit or wound, of which there are plenty.

Even just bumping Gheistvor from -1 / D3 to -2 / 3 would push him over the 10 wounds to a 4+ save breakpoint.

The higher damage is obviously with my small change.

Mannfred, Mortarch of not being able to kill 20 Zombies in one round.

[Aren73]

Well Mannfred was always the wizard, you know, the Loremaster, the most powerful of the Von Carstein trio at magic, the bookworm. 

It's why he gets so many casting bonuses now  

[pnkdth]

On the subject of named versus unnamed characters, I see them as a way to represent whatever I want. For instance, if you have a really cool idea which would be best represented by Neferata or Mannfred. Go for it. The rules themselves aren't even a perfect representation of the lore since that would make certain games an imbalanced mess (or even auto-wins).

I heard Vince is making his Glutos model into something similar to Xerxes from 300 with a bull theme. My undead are a mix of VC and TK using bits and pieces from more than a dozen armies. Vyrkos can used to represent TK in a way, with its two allegiance abilities acting like 'My will be done' and re-rolls to cast the more reliable and relentlessness of incantations (I'm talking the 2002 version before they ruined the faction in 8th).

Cool kitbashes and sculpts are a joy to behold. Same with new and creative color schemes. It is a hobby, after all. Especially when GW creates a battletome and put a lot of the interesting stuff on unique characters. A word of caution though, make sure your new cool model matches the model in size lest you get accused of modelling for advantage (though that goes for any conversion/kitbash).

That said, there's a certain enjoyment to be had to make non-named characters do work too. Still digesting the book as a whole.

[Aren73]

I just transplanted Lauka's hair onto the Vengorian Lord and you know what - I'm low-key chuffed with myself. No more bald vampire.