Soulblight Gravelords News, Rumours and Speculation

[umpac]

21 minutes ago, Doko said:

But coven is a must have because in the actual meta the top armys usually have one deathstar unit buffed,and we can do that deathstar useless with the coven,so it is a key unit and even if you dont want call it a must have,not because it is overpower,but because we havent other unit that do the same.

The spell is ok but you take it for the buffs, not the spell. Most top tier armies are Bravery 10 and has good unbinds, which makes the spell extremely unreliable. The spell has a very short range as well so its very clunky to use and useless against shooting, of which the top 3 armies has plenty. Mannfred or waves of cheap chaff is much better at dealing with melee deathstars.

 

49 minutes ago, Aren73 said:

What will happen is this: Every single tournament SBGL player will play lots of zombies and a Coven Throne, we'll still do middling in the tournament scene and then GW will give both units a points hike or worse, reduce their abilities. 

Coven does nothing for Zombie heavy lists so I highly doubt competitive Deathstench lists will include one. Its going to be either or. I also strongly agree that Coven is faaar from a must have.

[Belmail]

1 hour ago, Beliman said:

I'm with @Aren73. Coven Throne has an awesome spell and CA, but it's not a cheap and can't take a punch (no cover/obstacle, 4+ armor save, giant flying chariot that can't hide, 12wounds, etc...) that can disappear in one shooting/magic phase (and it will).

Even if it's a great unit and a powerful force multiplier, you can't spam Coven Thrones like Necros/vampire lord and let's be honest, at 300p and all this things going on, the enemy will target your Coven Throne asap.

Imho, awesome unit that can be your MVP or die early game without doing anything (and it's hard to stop that outcome for the Gravelord player).

Actually the coven throne can still get cover and look out sir since it is not a monster. 

[Beliman]

4 minutes ago, Belmail said:

Actually the coven throne can still get cover and look out sir since it is not a monster. 

Totally right!! I forget that about that it's not a monster!

[HanShot First]

I don’t got my battletome yet, are bat swarms still a unit?

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

I was thinking about the niche of Fell Bats (because I really like the models) and I think I figured it out. They are summonable, so you can deploy them in the grave. Basically, for 75 points you are putting pressure on your opponent to never leave an objective unoccupied within 14" of your gravesites until turn 3. I think that's actually pretty rad.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

3 minutes ago, HanShot First said:

I don’t got my battletome yet, are bat swarms still a unit?

No, sadly they are gone.

[HanShot First]

12 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

No, sadly they are gone.

Man I’m sad now, with the cool cursed city models and all.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

8 minutes ago, HanShot First said:

Man I’m sad now, with the cool cursed city models and all.

Fell Bats are in if it's any consolation. But yeah, it sucks. I also wanted more bat options.

[HanShot First]

3 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

Fell Bats are in if it's any consolation. But yeah, it sucks. I also wanted more bat options.

Yeah, big bats. I just can’t wait to paint fire wolves when I get them. Wanted a creature heavy army so was just wondering if that was an option.

[Pvarron]

9 hours ago, Aren73 said:

Alright you lot. Who wants some White Dwarf pics?

Never mind, found the post

Edited May 19, 2021 by Pvarron

[RocketPropelledGrenade]

1 hour ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

I was thinking about the niche of Fell Bats (because I really like the models) and I think I figured it out. They are summonable, so you can deploy them in the grave. Basically, for 75 points you are putting pressure on your opponent to never leave an objective unoccupied within 14" of your gravesites until turn 3. I think that's actually pretty rad.

That's actually pretty neat, I like that idea! Could be devastating against lower movement armies, too, in terms of controlling their game plan and ability to plan moves.

[Mark8]

a good 1000p list?

 

[Honk]

4 hours ago, Doko said:

But coven is a must have because

Maybe I‘m missing something, but the same coven throne was 240pts for the last year, with a slightly less effective beguile (no abilities) but a slightly better pool (reroll any dice)...

i really liked them, but now the are 70 points more and supposed to be the new meta?

that says rather unfriendly things about the meta

[Aren73]

31 minutes ago, Honk said:

Maybe I‘m missing something, but the same coven throne was 240pts for the last year, with a slightly less effective beguile (no abilities) but a slightly better pool (reroll any dice)...

i really liked them, but now the are 70 points more and supposed to be the new meta?

that says rather unfriendly things about the meta

Or says interesting things about the book

 

One massive positive of this release for me, unexpectedly, are the Vengorian Lords. It occurred to me just now. My two favourite units have always been blood knights and Vargheists. A Vengorian Lord is a mix of both. 

In the end, all told, this release is still very positive for me. Far from perfect but good enough that it is an improvement on the past, despite its many flaws.

[Verminlord]

6 hours ago, Doko said:

????? Nothing limiting the hearthguard output???? Last time that i read my fyreslayer tome we havent nothing to disengage and charge again.

So coven use his spell on the hearthguard and charge them,then you can give then double turn to the rival if you want and hearthguard are 100% useless and enemy is wasting 150 battallion+400hearthguard+140 battlesmith+120 runefather+120 runesmitter because usually all these are around the block of buffed hearthguard and wont can go to buff other unit due to 4" move.

So to me(and many theorycrafter in youtube the coven is a must have and a key unit for competitive) the coven is the best unit of our tome,300 points for do useless 1000 points of the rival,also the best ca of maybe all aos

Yes, assuming the coven throne is in range for the spell in the hero phase and gets off the spell, assuming the SbG player throws a 300 point support unit into the middle of the board unprotected, assuming you haven't taken the nullsidian icon like every other fireslayers player and assuming you walk your hearthguard towards the only thing in the army that counters them, and assuming you thoughtlessly haven't set up two units to have something to countercharge with, then yes I concede your hearthguard are out of commission for a whole turn. 

I hate to break it to you but "youtube theorycrafters" are just people like you and me, but with video cameras. They (and we) are frequently wrong. Remember when the "youtube theorycrafters" all thought the new KO book was bad?

 

Edited May 19, 2021 by Verminlord

[Doko]

I only gonna say that if you have so much problems to play with the coven throne and his spells and do it work then it isnt a problem of the coven throne.

 

A model with 12" move fly and a spell within 12" and you have so many problems? Then better play with a army that havent spells because nothing gonna be so easy to pull off than a beguile of coven throne with 12" range within,12" fly move vs a army with 4" move

And yes theorycrafters are wrong maaaaany times(kharadron is a bad example because they were a bad tome as theorycrafter said,untill general handbook did as a 30% reduction in every unit) 

As i said in other post coven isnt overpower and wont win us every game,it is a easy to kill target with shooting.

But have a huge damage multiplifier ca and a spell that in some mathups can do a autoloose in a win and also it is our best option for non named heroe to equip items.

People think is bad and wont use it? Great but dont give bad excuses as it is hard to pull off a beguile spell lol

[HomelessOne]

Do you guys have any early feelings on character heavy Vyrkos? The...bare bones...are probably pretty straightforward (Belladama, Radukar 2, Vampire Lord, and...Necromancer?) and you want some wolves, but the remaining points seem reasonably up in the air.

[Verminlord]

PSA: New skeletons come with enough bits to kit the whole unit out with either all spears or all swords.

I know it doesn't make a difference rules-wise, but aesthetically the idea of a mixed unit with 1" spears bothered me 😅

[umpac]

5 hours ago, Doko said:

A model with 12" move fly and a spell within 12" and you have so many problems? Then better play with a army that havent spells because nothing gonna be so easy to pull off than a beguile of coven throne with 12" range within,12" fly move vs a army with 4" move

People think is bad and wont use it? Great but dont give bad excuses as it is hard to pull off a beguile spell lol

"Git gud" isn't a real argument. Your opponent will have a movement phase before your hero phase, why is he placing his melee deathstar within 12" of the one thing that can shut it down? How is the move relevant if you can't move before your hero phase? Also if  "a army with 4" move" refers to Fyreslayers then that's a bit disingenuous. They have a rune for boardwide +2 move, they can deep strike, they have easy access to run and charge. For 1 CP that unit of HGB gets a threat range of 12"+2D6 (or 6+3D6 without CP).

On top of your opponent having a lot of control of whether you are going to be in range there are also way too many things that need to click. The unit you are shutting down must only be able to hit the Throne and nothing else, you need to succeed with the casting roll, your opponent needs to fail his unbind roll, you need to be close to your target and you need to beat his bravery on 3D6 (roughly 40% against bravery 10). Again, its an interesting spell, it forces your opponent to sometimes play around it and sometimes it does something big, but most games it will do nothing.

[Darnok]

Anything that relies on "everything goes right for me, as well as every counter goes wrong for the opponent" is not suitable to build a strategy on. Consider such things a bonus that can work every now and then - but if the unit is not "worth it" without said bonus, it was not worth it in the first place.

 

In other news: good to hear about the sward/spear bits with the new skeleton kit. 👍

[Honk]

1 hour ago, umpac said:

there are also way too many things that need to click

The throne was great, I loved it for 240 points. The beguile spell is tricky to use, due to the short range, but the CA is great.
the beguile was used mostly for counter charges and to tie up the unit that crushed the poor speedbump in front of the throne, nothing for offensive maneuvers.

but even the best lists have crumbled to my skillful tactics 🥳

but with wolves getting a serious buff to their charge and grandma riding along, the days of pure chaff seem over.

can‘t wait to give the new book a spin

Edited May 20, 2021 by Honk

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

7 hours ago, HomelessOne said:

Do you guys have any early feelings on character heavy Vyrkos? The...bare bones...are probably pretty straightforward (Belladama, Radukar 2, Vampire Lord, and...Necromancer?) and you want some wolves, but the remaining points seem reasonably up in the air.

I made this list a few days ago:

 

Spoiler

Allegiance: Vyrkos Dynasty
Mortal Realm: Shyish

Leaders
Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon (435)
- General
- Deathlance
- Command Trait: Hunter's Snare
- Lore of the Vampires: Amethystine Pinions
Vengorian Lord (280)
- Artefact: Gravesand Brooch
- Lore of the Vampires: Amethystine Pinions
Necromancer (125)
- Lore of the Deathmages: Overwhelming Dread
Belladamma Volga (200)
- General
- Lore of the Vampires: Soulpike or Amethystine Pinions

Battleline
30 x Skeleton Warriors (255)
30 x Grave Guard (420)
- Great Wight Blades
10 x Dire Wolves (135)
10 x Dire Wolves (135)

Total: 1985 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 139

 

---

 

This list is written with the idea in mind that in AoS 3, +to hit, wound and save will not longer stack and that mystic shield will probably give +1 save.

 

This list has four different parts that are supposed to mostly act independently, but can support each other when needed.

 

The Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon gets Hunter's Snare so that he can capture for 14 models. Lance for big damage on the charge, making him more likely to bump a unit down low enough to capture right away. Lore spell is Amethystine Pinions, because he's supposed to go out and smash stuff quickly.

 

The Grave Guard go together with the Vengorian Lord. The plan is to deep strike them in via gravesites. The Lord is supposed to quickly run up (thus, Pinions again) and start supporting them defensively with his rend reduction aura, heal command ability and spell like Invigorating Aura or Mystic Shield. He can is also supposed to prevent enemy units from charging the Grave Guard by getting them locked into combat. To that end, he gets the Gravesand Brooch artefact which allows him to reroll 1s to save. So he can potentially sit on a 2+, rerolling, ignore rend -1 save if he really wants to.

 

Belladamma Volga is the second general in this list, which may become more relevant in AoS 3, who knows? In any case, she adds value by being a +1 to cast double caster with good spells on her warscroll. She can support Dire Wolves with her command ability, which allows them to do their job of screening and tarpitting better. She takes Pinions or Soulpike. Maybe even Amaranthine Orb. Not that important, because she can always cast her warscroll spells.

 

Finally, the Necromancer goes together with the Skeleton Warriors. He grants them Deathless Minions and defensive support from Vanhel's (potentially double heals for the skeleton blob) and Overwhelming Dread, making them more resilient. He also helps with Battleshock, which is going to be a problem on Skeletons with how many of them you expect to die each combat phase. I'm not 100% on the Necro, he does not give out +1 to wound from Vyrkos and does not get reroll casts, either. Listen, buddy, you are in the list for now, but you better be on your best behaviour because you're on thin ice! He'll probably be the first thing to go in favour of a generic battalion when those come around in AoS 3.

 

---

 

Overall strengths of this list:

 

Good amount of bodies.

Nice mix of fast and slow units.

Good spell casting (5 spells per turn, 4 of which get rerolls).

Invigorating aura +4/+5 to cast because of all the heroes and all units will likely get Deathly Invocation every turn.

Fairly resilient overall.

Only Summonable troops, so Endless Legions is likely to be impactful.

No stinky zombies

I don't know if this is exactly what you are after because it only uses one named Vyrkos character in Belladamma. But overall you still have four heroes in there, all of which are wizards.

In that Warhammer Community article, Vyrkos was billed as the allegiance to use if you want a lot of support characters and good spell casting, but I think that is only somewhat true. We only have two small support characters, the Vampire Lord and the Necromancer. The Vampire Lord does not get great spells, and the Necromancer does not benefit from the Vyrkos allegiance abilities (reroll casts) at all, since it is Vampires only. You might think "It's fine, I will just cast warscroll spells, Mystic Shield and Invigorating Aura", which you can do, but then those spells don't benefit from Locus of Shyish (double casts on a 9+).

I think if the Vyrkos rules and our allegiance abilites were just a little more permissive, we would be able to pull off a good magic lists by bringing lots of small casters. Reroll casts can definitely be compared to a +1 to cast or better in many situations. But as even then, we don't really have any game-shaping spells to cast. Kind of an unsatisfying situation.

[Raptor_Jesues]

13 hours ago, Belmail said:

Actually the coven throne can still get cover and look out sir since it is not a monster. 

OH. I think i might now be sold on the throne being good

[Ferrus65]

Dear undead friends, 

need advice. I'd like a Kastelai Dinasty themed army. What I have right now is:

Prince Vhordrai (mandatory) 455 pts

Vengorian Lord (I like the model, but we can talk about it) 280 pts

Coven Throne (we also can talk about this, I don't even like the model.. or better, I'd like to build something more Kastelai themed, but no ideas at all) 310 pts

3 x 5 blood knights (mandatory) 585 pts.

Total 1.630 pts. I'd like to arrive to a 2000 pts list, question is: anything to modify? And what else? More blood knights? Dire wolves? Fell Bats? 

Any suggestion would be really appreciated

 

 

[Raptor_Jesues]

1 hour ago, Ferrus65 said:

Dear undead friends, 

need advice. I'd like a Kastelai Dinasty themed army. What I have right now is:

Prince Vhordrai (mandatory) 455 pts very good

Vengorian Lord (I like the model, but we can talk about it) 280 pts also very good, i would suggest to make him the warlord and give him rousing commander and fragment of blood keep

Coven Throne (we also can talk about this, I don't even like the model.. or better, I'd like to build something more Kastelai themed, but no ideas at all) 310 pts Mannfred, Neferata, Radukar and another vengorian lord could be nice too but i would suggest to get Volga instead, she is very good for a nice price

3 x 5 blood knights (mandatory) 585 pts. of course

Total 1.630 pts. I'd like to arrive to a 2000 pts list, question is: anything to modify? And what else? More blood knights? Dire wolves? Fell Bats? 

Any suggestion would be really appreciated

 

 

i would suggest you both dire wolves and vargheists.
The wolves are a good screen, summonable and you can get them back with the gravesites, also they hit rather hard, expecially when supported by volga.
Vargheists are a very nice hammer unit with a similar damage per point to bloodknights while being way less tanky and a bit cheaper, in my opinion the two units complement each other very well. Also they are vampires and will benefit from the traits of kastelai.
Both units are also fast wich is what you want in a kastelai army, i would suggest to get both

Edited May 20, 2021 by Raptor_Jesues