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Went through every angle in this book..making a list with blood knights as main. Then did a Daughters of Khaine list...

I dunno but, the DoK bok just synergises 100% better with all the units. 
Same with Skaven. Same with OBR. All 3 armies I play.

You have units that acutally do something, have a role. In the soulblight book you have plenty of units that dont do ******😂

Seems rushed, and not proper done. Just a little glace missing!

 

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4 minutes ago, Darkhan said:

Same with Skaven. Same with OBR. All 3 armies I play.

I find that Skavens are bit hit&miss. You can't just take a full subfaccion without losing the main skaven battleline and batallions are all or nothing. Their gimmicks are close to one use. Their really BIG roster feels really small when you try to make a thematic force.

I can't talk about OBR, my opponent (1 OBR player) only play the same 4 units again and again.

SBGL seems to give you the option to take any of the subfaccions and put whatever you want in it and it will still be playable! Yes, we have some boring units, but their own synergies are just there from the start: all SBGL heroes have the Deadly Invocation and Deathless Minions that already interact with a lot of SBGL units and 80% of Heroes are Wizards with Invigorating Aura, that's without taking in consideration their warscroll and subfaccion. And Summoneable and Vampire keywords already interacts with active and passive spells/abilities/CAs!

It could be better? Yes of course, like better Lores, better customizations (Vampire powers and I really wanted necromancers to have mounts like corpse carts and mortis engine, giving a deadwalker list a bigger roster), etc...

But that's far away from a battletome being bad or boring.

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7 minutes ago, Beliman said:

I find that Skavens are bit hit&miss. You can't just take a full subfaccion without losing the main skaven battleline and batallions are all or nothing. Their gimmicks are close to one use. Their really BIG roster feels really small when you try to make a thematic force.

I can't talk about OBR, my opponent (1 OBR player) only play the same 4 units again and again.

SBGL seems to give you the option to take any of the subfaccions and put whatever you want in it and it will still be playable! Yes, we have some boring units, but their own synergies are just there from the start: all SBGL heroes have the Deadly Invocation and Deathless Minions that already interact with a lot of SBGL units and 80% of Heroes are Wizards with Invigorating Aura, that's without taking in consideration their warscroll and subfaccion. And Summoneable and Vampire keywords already interacts with active and passive spells/abilities/CAs!

It could be better? Yes of course, like better Lores, better customizations (Vampire powers and I really wanted necromancers to have mounts like corpse carts and mortis engine, giving a deadwalker list a bigger roster), etc...

But that's far away from a battletome being bad or boring.

I gotta disagree about skaven, but hey! We have the rights to have our own opinions😄 

You don't have a lot of different units in OBR compared to Soulblight, so I can understand him taking 4 units;p

I agree, everything is playable! But I don't see this as a tier A army. I may be TOTALLY wrong tho. I really look forward to see different lists in tournaments. How the army preform on the tavle. Some super creative list builders out there in the competitive scene.

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9 hours ago, Aren73 said:

Isn't it a bit early to send feedback? 

We don't even have the book in our hands and yes the leaks are there but from GW's point it's so easy to dismiss feedback on a product that hasn't yet released. 

Yes, around a week too early.

9 hours ago, Liquidsteel said:

I don't think it'd too early, the books are out and reviews from GW approved 3rd parties are up.

Better to get the questions in early, and repeatedly, so they take notice.

I actually think the opposite.  Why would a company take notice when somebody is giving feedback based on leaked photos?  We're providing feedback based on other people's opinion and having played zero games - it's feedback by hearsay.  Feedback to any company has a lot more kudos when you can go "I purchased product X and here is my feedback" versus "I've seen some leaks and listened to YouTube".

I'd also say that we don't know what impact AoS3 is going to make.  Legions of Nagash got slated when it came out because of the old summoning rules requiring points to be put aside.  AoS2 comes along, makes summoning free and resolves that problem.

That's not to say we shouldn't be providing feedback - we 100% should.  What's important is to be able to back up your feedback with real world examples rather than theory crafting.

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5 minutes ago, RuneBrush said:

 

I'd also say that we don't know what impact AoS3 is going to make.  Legions of Nagash got slated when it came out because of the old summoning rules requiring points to be put aside.  AoS2 comes along, makes summoning free and resolves that problem.

I don't think AoS 3.0 will change any of the creativity in the book. 

Rules interactions, their strength and jankiness is one thing but the flavour and fun of the book is another. 

I've seen a lot of people say AoS 3 will fix all of our problems but I simply don't think it can fix my biggest issue with the book - which is that of many others going by reviews and comments I've seen. 

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1 hour ago, Andalf said:

I think Black Knights are going to find a place in a lot of my lists either as 2x5 or 1x10 man.  I’ve been planning around a lot of Vyrkos and Legion of Blood lists which would find them handy; as an arm chair general for now, here’s a few of my thoughts.

I actually could sorta see Black knights in Vyrkos. Deathrattle gets +1 to wound near Vyrkos heroes, so this plus MW on charge may be usefull - not really powerfull but acceptable perhaps?

Vyrkos Black Knight charging and near hero will actually deal more damage than zombies for similar points. Tough of course Deadwalkers will take better to buffs.

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5 minutes ago, Boar said:

I actually could sorta see Black knights in Vyrkos. Deathrattle gets +1 to wound near Vyrkos heroes, so this plus MW on charge may be usefull - not really powerfull but acceptable perhaps?

5 Black Knights fight just about as well as 20 Skeleton Warriors. That is to say: Not very well. I have considered them in a Vyrkos list, but I struggle to fill my Battleline if I put them in. It also leaves us with the question of what hero to send in with them for that +1 to wound, because if it's a Wight King that's another tax. You also really don't want a Wight King general in Vyrkos because all their command traits are so good.

Personally, having used Black Knights a lot in LoN, their role there was not exactly to deal damage, although they were way better at it in that book since they got damage 2 on the charge. However, being at rend '-' made them only good against low saves. They had a lot better support in that book as well, with +1 attacks from the Wight King.

Their role previously was more to do a moderate amount of damage on the charge, and then to provide a kinda hard to chew through tarpit. And then do it again turn 3/4 after being resurrected. But the new book took away their damage, Dire Wolves are way better at tarpitting and you can't control resurrection anymore. So their role is really not clear to me now.

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, Boar said:

I actually could sorta see Black knights in Vyrkos. Deathrattle gets +1 to wound near Vyrkos heroes, so this plus MW on charge may be usefull - not really powerfull but acceptable perhaps?

For 80/90 points, perhaps.

@Neil Arthur Hotep the Vyrkos +1 to wound can only be granted by Vampires. Wight Kings simply have no role 🤣 if they were dirt cheap, then maybe

Edited by JackStreicher
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6 minutes ago, Aren73 said:

I don't think AoS 3.0 will change any of the creativity in the book. 

Rules interactions, their strength and jankiness is one thing but the flavour and fun of the book is another. 

I've seen a lot of people say AoS 3 will fix all of our problems but I simply don't think it can fix my biggest issue with the book - which is that of many others going by reviews and comments I've seen. 

I don't understand what you mean by creativity?  To me the creativity I take from something is if I'm inspired to start a new project with funky conversions and paint it to competition standard (could be an army or just a one-off model).  I can't gauge if this new battletome inspires me because all I've seen is a load of warscroll leaks.  I've not read any of the background in the book and hardly seen any artwork.

AoS3 won't fix all the problems in the game / this book - it might fix no problems, or it may fix many.  The reason so many people are being cautious is because we've been here before and seen small changes have huge impacts on the way armies actually play on the tabletop.

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4 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

@Neil Arthur Hotep the Vyrkos +1 to wound can only be granted by Vampires. Wight Kings simply have no role 🤣 if they were dirt cheap, then maybe

Man, this kind of thing is what I mean when I complain that list building in this book does not flow well. Nothing ever just works like you think it would. No +1 to wound from Wight Kings, no reroll casts for Necromancers... Would it really have been so bad to make these abilities not locked to Vampires only?

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

Would it really have been so bad to make these abilities not locked to Vampires only?

That would have required some effort.

I was also disappointed, that the Lords with a faction keyword won‘t benefit from a different legion (it was to be expected though)

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

I was also disappointed, that the Lords with a faction keyword won‘t benefit from a different legion (it was to be expected though)

At least the situation is better than before when it comes to characters as generals. Although that was another friction point during list building for me recently.

Since I have the whole Cursed City gang, I was trying to build a Vyrkos list with the Cursed City models in it. In my mind, it would have been Radukar's Court, Belladamma, Kritza, Annika and another generic hero so that I could have like, five generals.

But the Cursed City models actually don't become Generals in Vyrkos, even though they all have the Vyrkos keyword. And by taking the whole package, you actually fill 4 of your 6 hero slots, so you can't even take the other Vyrkos characters.

It's a shame, too: Radukar the Wolf, Torgillius and Gorslav are all decent. Back to the drawing board, I guess.

Edited by Neil Arthur Hotep
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Posted (edited)

@Neil Arthur Hotep Yes, that’s annoying :/

My gaming group decided to use these point values for the CC gang (I worked them out yesterday)

 

Vargskyr : Varghulf Points (same stats) 160

Torgilius:  almost Necromancer points 125

Gorslav: almost Wight king Points 115

Radukar: Vampire Lord +20, pts 160

Vyrkos Bloodborn: 115 points seems plausible 

Korsagi Night Guard: cost as much as 2 Ogor Gluttons, 80 points

Halgrim: Wight King 115 points

Combined: 755 (+ 115) points

 

does anybody have any input on the point values? :)

 

 

Edited by JackStreicher
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35 minutes ago, RuneBrush said:

I don't understand what you mean by creativity? 

Creativity, inspiration whatever you'd like to call it - what I mean is the amount of thematic rules in the book, on the allegiance abilities and warscrolls. 

Our faction abilities and are ok, some are more thematic than others. The warscrolls however, a lot of them are sadly quite bland. 

What makes a warscroll thematic (to me) is th special abilities and spells on it. The current iteration of the Vampire Lord is especially bad for this - he has the same cookie cutter profile as any vampire in the book. That's not just any vampire lord, but any vampire, even Vargheists, they all swing more or less the same. 

On top of that the Vampire Lord has no special rules to distinguish him as a vampire lord, except the hunger which again every vampire has. He can cast magic but has no unique spell and has a command ability which while nice is a pretty generic command ability seen again and again. 

The vampire lord doesn't feel much like a lord, instead it comes of as any other vampire in the book. I don't think they got very creative with the lord - hence why I said lack of creativity. I mean even our old warscroll had more flavour with the flying horror, nightmare steed and the chalice there. 

I feel like more could have been done with them, that's all. Zombies and skeletons got some really cool rules changes and they feel very on theme, there's some real vision there. 

I just do not see the same strength of vision for the lord or the fell bats. For Black Knights I think they tried but didn't change them enough - leaving them in an awkward spot where it would have been better had they not tried. 

For me it's not a bad book, it's just a bit bland.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, RuneBrush said:

Yes, around a week too early.

I actually think the opposite.  Why would a company take notice when somebody is giving feedback based on leaked photos?  We're providing feedback based on other people's opinion and having played zero games - it's feedback by hearsay.  Feedback to any company has a lot more kudos when you can go "I purchased product X and here is my feedback" versus "I've seen some leaks and listened to YouTube".

I'd also say that we don't know what impact AoS3 is going to make.  Legions of Nagash got slated when it came out because of the old summoning rules requiring points to be put aside.  AoS2 comes along, makes summoning free and resolves that problem.

That's not to say we shouldn't be providing feedback - we 100% should.  What's important is to be able to back up your feedback with real world examples rather than theory crafting.

I agree to an extent, that of course real world examples help back things up, but not all the comments are about that.

Black Knights, sure.

But things like Vhordrai top damage bracket, Blood Knights retreat and charge, are just simple clarifications.

I don't think it's too early either, because we're not at the point of leaked photos; from 10am Saturday the NDAs were lifted and a whole swathe of online blogs and podcasts were uploaded. You get the book read out to you, warscrolls and allegiance abilities shown and discussed, and can download the warscrolls from the GW official website.

FAQ's typically come out 2 weeks from release, in the pandemic it's longer sure, but there is no reason to wait. 

Edited by Liquidsteel
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15 minutes ago, Aren73 said:

Creativity, inspiration whatever you'd like to call it - what I mean is the amount of thematic rules in the book, on the allegiance abilities and warscrolls. 

Our faction abilities and are ok, some are more thematic than others. The warscrolls however, a lot of them are sadly quite bland. 

What makes a warscroll thematic (to me) is th special abilities and spells on it. The current iteration of the Vampire Lord is especially bad for this - he has the same cookie cutter profile as any vampire in the book. That's not just any vampire lord, but any vampire, even Vargheists, they all swing more or less the same. 

On top of that the Vampire Lord has no special rules to distinguish him as a vampire lord, except the hunger which again every vampire has. He can cast magic but has no unique spell and has a command ability which while nice is a pretty generic command ability seen again and again. 

The vampire lord doesn't feel much like a lord, instead it comes of as any other vampire in the book. I don't think they got very creative with the lord - hence why I said lack of creativity. I mean even our old warscroll had more flavour with the flying horror, nightmare steed and the chalice there. 

I feel like more could have been done with them, that's all. Zombies and skeletons got some really cool rules changes and they feel very on theme, there's some real vision there. 

I just do not see the same strength of vision for the lord or the fell bats. For Black Knights I think they tried but didn't change them enough - leaving them in an awkward spot where it would have been better had they not tried. 

For me it's not a bad book, it's just a bit bland.

Kritza and Lady Annika...no reason at all to include those two, I had so high hopes. 

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I like the book and am glad it isn’t 1-3 insane units to spam and a bunch of lesser units in comparison like LRL or IDK nor is it super broken one way or another like seraphon or sylvaneth.

Then again I like the slaanesh book alright too so I suppose I have different priorities having played for 4 editions of warhammer.

I just like books that have multiple reasonable builds and I feel SbGL provides that.

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Posted (edited)

I agree with @Aren73, vampire lords are uninteresting.

BUT, if the AoS 3.0 rumors are true, that could mean that skeletons could take a charge with 4+saves, mortal wounds after charge from Black Knights could be nice before taking an overwatch/2+save screens (they will still suck unless the enemy can't shoot in to melee), wight king's re-rolls of 1 to hit could be fine with +1 to hit from generic CA.

There are a lof of IFs, and I'm pretty sure that 3.0 will not help Vampire Lords to have a nice customization table or better Lores, but the most uninteresting units can have a push to do their job and feel better in Gravelords lists.

And let's be honest, the worst thing is having Cursed City models on the battletome without their own unique and independent units (Vyrkos Bloodborne... /sadface)

Edited by Beliman
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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, herohammer said:

I like the book and am glad it isn’t 1-3 insane units to spam and a bunch of lesser units in comparison like LRL or IDK nor is it super broken one way or another like seraphon or sylvaneth.

Then again I like the slaanesh book alright too so I suppose I have different priorities having played for 4 editions of warhammer.

I just like books that have multiple reasonable builds and I feel SbGL provides that.

Super broken like Sylvaneth? Whaaat?;p

broken, as ****** army I hope you mean.

Edited by Darkhan
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5 minutes ago, Beliman said:

And let's be honest, the worst thing is having Cursed City models on the battletome without their own unique and independent units (Vyrkos Bloodborne... /sadface)

Yeah that is a punch in the gut. I'd rather they weren't in the book, then at least we wouldn't have to be reminded every time we open it...

And yeah, I am very much a single issue person with this. I played Vampire Counts for the Vampire Lords in it, I was hoping that I could take similar enjoyment from AoS, it didn't happen with LoN but I had high hopes for Soulblight Gravelords. 

BUT

Vengorian lords do have a lot of that flavour I was missing from Vampire lords. So there is that. 

Honestly a Vengorian Lord is one of the paths I was hoping to be able to take with a vampire lord. It's a shame there aren't multiple paths like that but at least one exists. 

So no, I'm not as salty as I was previously, I will just run Vengorian Lords instead of Vampire Lords until Vampire Lords get the customisation options they deserve. 

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51 minutes ago, Darkhan said:

Super broken like Sylvaneth? Whaaat?;p

broken, as ****** army I hope you mean.

that is why I said broken one way or another. Sylvaneth are too bad. Seraphon and tzeetnch are too good

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2 minutes ago, Raptor_Jesues said:

Do you people find rather annoying that there is no battalion with vengorian lords or is it just me?

Batallions are rumored to be on their way out, so no, this didn't particularly bother me.

 

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