Soulblight Gravelords News, Rumours and Speculation

[Erdemo86]

I really like the Vyrkos Blood born models from Cursed City. Do you think it would be ok to play them as Vargheists?

[Beliman]

Reading again Lycancurse (from Belladamma Volga), it seems that there are three diferent outcomes? 

1. 1D3 to an enemy unit (18" range)
2. Before removing the last slain model, set up the wolf unit within 3" of the slain mode.
   1. The enemy allocate this wounds to 3 models in the middle of a big blob, without enough space to put any of  your wolves.
   2. The enemy allocate this wounds to the last model of a unit (imagine a line) and you set-up your wolves 2.9" of the slain models, and after removing the last model, your wolfs are going to be outside 3" of that unit (giving you a "free to go" unit).
   3. The enemy allocate the wounds to any random model, and you set-up your wolves within 3" of any non-slain models from that unit.

Am I reading it right?

[CarkFish]

2 minutes ago, Erdemo86 said:

I really like the Vyrkos Blood born models from Cursed City. Do you think it would be ok to play them as Vargheists?

As long as the base size is right & you explain most none douchebag people will be cool

[GutrotSpume]

29 minutes ago, Erdemo86 said:

I really like the Vyrkos Blood born models from Cursed City. Do you think it would be ok to play them as Vargheists?

Slap some little wings on them and pop them on the correct base size and your good to go

[GutrotSpume]

30 minutes ago, Beliman said:

Reading again Lycancurse (from Belladamma Volga), it seems that there are three diferent outcomes? 

1. 1D3 to an enemy unit (18" range)
2. Before removing the last slain model, set up the wolf unit within 3" of the slain mode.
   1. The enemy allocate this wounds to 3 models in the middle of a big blob, without enough space to put any of  your wolves.
   2. The enemy allocate this wounds to the last model of a unit (imagine a line) and you set-up your wolves 2.9" of the slain models, and after removing the last model, your wolfs are going to be outside 3" of that unit (giving you a "free to go" unit).
   3. The enemy allocate the wounds to any random model, and you set-up your wolves within 3" of any non-slain models from that unit.

Am I reading it right?

Set the Wolves up within 3 inches of the slain models unit.  
 

so I think it will be hard for opponents to block you from deploying the doggies

[Beliman]

1 minute ago, GutrotSpume said:

Set the Wolves up within 3 inches of the slain models unit.  
 

so I think it will be hard for opponents to block you from deploying the doggies

Thanks!

So every output seems to be fine for Vyrkos players! I love mama Volga

[Aren73]

How do we feel on the durability of a max unit of skeletons vs a max unit of zombies? 

Skeletons have the 5+ save and can reroll 1s on deathless minions roll. They automatically come back on a 4+ for every model slain in the phase when they're chosen to fight. 

Synergies: Vanhel's activates them twice, so you get to roll that 4+ twice. Very nice. That's...about it for abilities that increase their durability that also don't work on Zombies

Zombies: no save, larger unit of 40, if they kill models you roll a 2+ to get a zombie added to the unit for every model killed. 

Synergies: Vanhel's double activation helps, Corpse Carts +1 to save, anything that makes zombies more killy (especially more attacks and the like) helps out their durability. 

My take: Skeletons are more survivable seemingly, the save and reroll 1s on deathless minions helps a ton. It's not too hard to get them a +1 save either. I think the 4+ Reanimation Protocols is pretty good, the Necromancer makes it possible for all of the casualties to get back up. They are good to just grab and have many units of them without worrying about buffs. 

Zombies by themselves are less survivable. However, I think you can get them to be more survivable if you stack buffs on them which isn't difficult to do but is expensive. 

To sum up, skeletons are baseline more survivable but if you make a Zombie horde deathstar unit then you can get that one unit to be more survivable and more of a damage threat too, but it takes at least a corpse cart and a Necromancer, ideally a Coven Throne too. 

[Ghoooouls]

1 hour ago, Adamcbutton said:

How does Belladamma’s spell that adds exploding 6s interact with zombies? Would they deal 2 mortal wounds on a 6, or one and an extra hit that must roll to wound?

Extra hit that would roll to wound in addition to 1 mortal from the single attack.

So you roll 1 6, that does a single mortal and a single wound roll, whereas usually it would be a single mortal and attack ends.

Edited May 15, 2021 by Ghoooouls

[Aren73]

Durability of Skeletons vs Grave Guard:

First, all the things that are the same:
They both are Deathrattle and Summonable so both benefit from pretty much all the same buffs. All of the healing, all of the summoning and all of the damage buffs. They both have banners that do exactly the same thing. They both have the same baseline save and wounds char. 

Grave Guard:
Have 1 better save if they have shields. That's it for their durability. 

Skeletons:
Reanimate losses suffered in that phase on a 4+ when they activate. Necromancer's Vanhel's can enhance this with a double activation so that's an indirect buff to their durability - but a potent one. 

Thoughts and comparison
Skeletons are straight up more durable. They're way cheaper and the 4+ reanimate really discourages chip damage. The grave guard definitely are more killy (like so, so much more) so there is the argument that they are free to activate first and kill their opponent. But skeletons you can take 3 units of 30 and not hurt too much for it. Or use the points difference to add in a corpse cart for -1 to wound and a Necromancer. IMO skeletons come out on top. 

[BrotherTalarian]

6 hours ago, Lucank said:

I`m trying the exact same list today
Think could be a good list

Let us know how it goes! I’m very curious 

[Elmir]

15 minutes ago, Aren73 said:

Durability of Skeletons vs Grave Guard:

First, all the things that are the same:
They both are Deathrattle and Summonable so both benefit from pretty much all the same buffs. All of the healing, all of the summoning and all of the damage buffs. They both have banners that do exactly the same thing. They both have the same baseline save and wounds char. 

Grave Guard:
Have 1 better save if they have shields. That's it for their durability. 

Skeletons:
Reanimate losses suffered in that phase on a 4+ when they activate. Necromancer's Vanhel's can enhance this with a double activation so that's an indirect buff to their durability - but a potent one. 

Thoughts and comparison
Skeletons are straight up more durable. They're way cheaper and the 4+ reanimate really discourages chip damage. The grave guard definitely are more killy (like so, so much more) so there is the argument that they are free to activate first and kill their opponent. But skeletons you can take 3 units of 30 and not hurt too much for it. Or use the points difference to add in a corpse cart for -1 to wound and a Necromancer. IMO skeletons come out on top. 

The problem is that both those units fill a very different role (obviously) and skeletons have 1 major problem... They need to compare to that other battleline unit, the zombie... Who has:

- a less restrictive regeneration mechanic (no need to strike last and can even take a unit above starting size)
- has no 5+ save.... but are 2/3 the points cost of skellies, so that's a really moot point. 
- A lot better offensive output. 
- Seemingly better synergy with a lot of abilities found in the book. 
- the option to do MWs to make them able to take on even heavily armoured threats (and looking at the rumours for AoS3: that's going to be a lot more common than it is now). 
- That amazing 6" pile in, making charges a moot point and REALLY adding to board control options to avoid getting sucked into combat with them. 

So I think the  real problem for skellies isn't the comparison to Grave guard (whose offensive output is some of the most insane in the game, especially considering the allegiance abilities this army has), but the comparison to the other basic battle line unit that outperforms it in pretty much every aspect... 

The only upside skellies have: 

- can take per 10 if you are just looking at fulfilling your battle line tax. 




It really sucks, but I'm afraid skellies are shelf sitters until the next book comes up. 

[Sete]

So what bloodline is best for a skellie army? 

Legion of Blood is the way to go?

[BrotherTalarian]

4 hours ago, Erdemo86 said:

I will go with 1000 points:

Vengrorian

3x 5 Blood Knights

1x 3 Vargheists

Alas, I believe that’s 1020

[Sception]

13 minutes ago, Elmir said:

It really sucks, but I'm afraid skellies are shelf sitters until the next book comes up. 

I've heard a case made for taking a single unit of 20 to 30 skittles to sit on an objective by themselves.

Their situation is sad, though.  They need... something.  Either to be more like zombies in cost, batch size, max unit size, maybe give them reach as well (enough of them have spears to say the spear ones fill in the second ranks), or, if you want to keep them as slightly less hoardy, then keep them at their same cost and batch size, and just give them 2 attacks each like chainrasps and ghouls.

But wish listing is neither here nor there.  I'll likely still keep a unit around because they look cool, but for the most part I agree that they're are shelf sitters now.  Such a shame, since I do think the author of this book was on to something for finally distinguishing them from zombies in a way that both could have been good, instead of one just being the obviously superior version of the other.  Oh, well.

...

As for best legion for whatever deathrattle stuff you do take... blood has specific deathrattle buffs, vyrkos has a short range buff on their vampires and reroll casting which helps you cast the healing spell with vamps, LoN can let you outflank which helps graveguard deal with their biggest weakness - speed.  Yes, you can gravesite deploy, but LoNight outflanking lets you send a buff hero with them.  Any of those three have a solid argument for being a decent choice.

Edited May 15, 2021 by Sception

[Elmir]

2 minutes ago, Sete said:

So what bloodline is best for a skellie army? 

Legion of Blood is the way to go?

looks like it... Ignoring modifiers is good, but you'll still have to get more graveguard compared to normal skellies I think if you want to be very competitive. 

normal skellies were the absolute best choice compared to zombies in the previous book and it seems they took the nerfbat straight to the teeth because of that. But Legion of Blood would still be the army you'd take to make them work better. You'll also be able to try bravery debuffs. 

If AoS3 changes up the battleshock phase more (or hopefully removes insane bravery flat out), this could work better. With current insane bravery, the battleshock phase seems almost skippable. 

[Sception]

2 minutes ago, Elmir said:

If AoS3 changes up the battleshock phase more (or hopefully removes insane bravery flat out), this could work better. With current insane bravery, the battleshock phase seems almost skippable. 

depending on how skeleton healing works with bravery, making battleshock more difficult to bypass might actually be a nerf to them.  they're not going to be causing many casualties to force difficult battleshock tests on the enemy, and injuries to their own unit might still count even if the models get back up.  Like, if 10 skeletons die, then all of them get back up, then 10 more skeletons die, then when battleshock rolls around did they lose 10 models or 20?

[Verminlord]

In regards to grave guard: I can't imagine ever taking great blades over sword n board. At 4in movement and a 5+ save without shields, 1" range on both weapons, these guys are prime charge/shoot bait. They need all the survivability they can get. And their main value will be those MW making up for the army's lack of rend anyways.

Edited May 15, 2021 by Verminlord

[Aren73]

@Elmir See my previous comparison of zombies to skeletons: 
 

45 minutes ago, Aren73 said:

How do we feel on the durability of a max unit of skeletons vs a max unit of zombies? 

Skeletons have the 5+ save and can reroll 1s on deathless minions roll. They automatically come back on a 4+ for every model slain in the phase when they're chosen to fight. 

Synergies: Vanhel's activates them twice, so you get to roll that 4+ twice. Very nice. That's...about it for abilities that increase their durability that also don't work on Zombies

Zombies: no save, larger unit of 40, if they kill models you roll a 2+ to get a zombie added to the unit for every model killed. 

Synergies: Vanhel's double activation helps, Corpse Carts +1 to save, anything that makes zombies more killy (especially more attacks and the like) helps out their durability. 

My take: Skeletons are more survivable seemingly, the save and reroll 1s on deathless minions helps a ton. It's not too hard to get them a +1 save either. I think the 4+ Reanimation Protocols is pretty good, the Necromancer makes it possible for all of the casualties to get back up. They are good to just grab and have many units of them without worrying about buffs. 

Zombies by themselves are less survivable. However, I think you can get them to be more survivable if you stack buffs on them which isn't difficult to do but is expensive. 

To sum up, skeletons are baseline more survivable but if you make a Zombie horde deathstar unit then you can get that one unit to be more survivable and more of a damage threat too, but it takes at least a corpse cart and a Necromancer, ideally a Coven Throne too. 

I'm not comparing damage here, or speed or anything else. I do think that overall Zombies are a better unit than Skeletons. But Skeletons do seem to be more durable. You can't rely too much on those MWs on 6s from zombies for their damage output - you're hardly going to get more than 20 in combat, which equates to just under 4 MW (and their other attacks basically do nothing). 4 Zombies coming back isn't all that much and they're not going to kill anything significant with those 4 MWs. 

Zombies do really ramp up with extra attacks and activations (+1 A from Vampire Lord and Vanhels from Necro gets them to a much nicer 16 MW). However they NEED that support. 

Skeletons on the other hand need no support to be decently durable. If your enemy can wipe out 30 skeletons in a single activation then what the hell, he'll probably kill all the zombies too, or all but 5 or something. And then as soon as the skeletons activate they get half their dead back. 

Zombies are a trap. They look really good with all their MWs on 6s and coming back after killing something. To really get that going; however, you need a block of 40 of them, a vampire lord and a Necromancer AND you need your opponent not to send something at them that just wipes the unit. 

A max unit of zombies with Necromancer and vampire lord support is 495 pts. For that much you can take 9 Vargheists. 
9 Vargheists (not buffed) can kill 26 zombies on average. What do the remaining 14 do? 5 MW followed by another 5 MW - they've killed 2 Vargheists, maybe a 3rd one if you're lucky. 

The same 9 Vargheists going into Skeletons only kills 21 skeletons. The 9 skeletons activate, 11 get back up. 20 skeletons go into the Vargheists and don't do much - but, more of them survived. If you have a Necromancer to Vanhels them then the rest of them get back up too - effectively the Vargheists did nothing. 

Guys you are overestimating the Zombies, they need a lot of help to get them to be ridiculous. 
Skeletons are more survivable (see above) than zombies even if the zombies are supported a bit. Zombies win out when they go up against units that aren't doing much damage in the first place. Whereas Skeletons can take a hit that kills 20 of them and they can still come back from it easily. Once your block of zombies is reduced to 10 models they're practically out of the game unless you do A LOT of work to try and heal them. 

[Malakithe]

24 minutes ago, Verminlord said:

bait.

All according to Manny's plan of course

[AHexInScarletRed]

I've been playing Soulblight & LoB before, so I'll be Kastellai now. What I'm planning to do is: 

455 Vhordrai

310 Coven Throne

280 Vengorian Lord

390 Blood Knights (10)

135 Dire Wolves (10)

135 Dire Wolves (10)

  50 CP (1)

Which puts me at 1755 pts. I could either put 9 Fell Bats in there; or 40 Zombies, or 5 Blood Knights and cap at 1950; or 3 Vargheists + 3 Fell Bats, or.. suggestions? Belladamma rather not, in terms of theme; I'll do Vyrkos separately. 

 

[JackStreicher]

1 hour ago, Aren73 said:

Skeletons are more survivable seemingly, the save and reroll 1s on deathless minions helps a ton. It's not too hard to get them a +1 save either. I think the 4+ Reanimation Protocols is pretty good, the Necromancer makes it possible for all of the casualties to get back up. They are good to just grab and have many units of them without worrying about buffs. 

Combine skeletons with the corpse cart which grants -1 to wound within 3“ 👌🏻 Perfect tank unit

[Tizianolol]

I watched many review and some people says blood knights can charge after their movement ability, others says they cant. If they couldnt charge why GW doesnt Simply say " when they  retreat they deals d3 MW on 2+" ? 

Edited May 15, 2021 by Tizianolol

[JackStreicher]

1 minute ago, Tizianolol said:

I watched many review and some people sau blood knights can charge after their movement ability, others says the cant. If they comodità charge why GW doesnt Simply say " when the retreat the deals d3 MW on 2+" ? 

If they faqed the ability to be at the end of the combat phase then this whole issue would be resolved ^^

[Erdemo86]

11 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

Combine skeletons with the corpse cart which grants -1 to wound within 3“ 👌🏻 Perfect tank unit

Was thinking about the same. Kastelei army with 30 skeletons+ corpse cart seems nice. Even 20 could be enough.Rest the points BKS and heros. Zombies are Good with buffs and for offense but if you only want a unit to sit on objectives, I think skellies are perfect combined with a corpse cart for that.

something like this im aming at:

Vengorian

Prince V

2x 10 Blood Knights

30 Skellies

Corpse Cart

3 Vargheists

 

Edited May 15, 2021 by Erdemo86

[Liquidsteel]

2 minutes ago, Tizianolol said:

I watched many review and some people says blood knights can charge after their movement ability, others says they cant. If they couldnt charge why GW doesnt Simply say " when they  retreat they deals d3 MW on 2+" ? 

My money is on 3.0 changing the core rules and it will be possible.