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Soulblight Gravelords News, Rumours and Speculation


Neil Arthur Hotep

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17 minutes ago, Sception said:

Boring, way too many models, pain in the butt, spiced up a very little bit by outflanking one of the blobs.  Maybe works?

The zombie horde seems to have some legs. 6" pile in makes them deceptively fast, especially with the +move spell. 40 zombies with buffs can easily do 20+ wounds per pile in, can potentially pile in twice and gets bolstered by kills. You fight the right target and you can easily be at 60+ zombies after a single combat, more against ideal targets and double pile in. Unless they remove inspiring presence in 3.0 they have a lot of staying power as well. Obviously needs play testing but my early impression is that they are basically "LoN marauders".

I actually think the concept is cool as hell. Just a massive "They are billions" style horde that swallows up and absorbs opposing armies, just a constantly growing avalanche of rotting flesh. The concept of zombies being slow up until they come close then suddenly lunges at you with surprising speed just oozes flavor. Buying and painting 120 zombies + X zombies for ressing is less cool....

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1 minute ago, NicholasFlamelGames said:

I did notice that which I thought was fantastic. Zombies I am not sure what the damage output will really look like. Time will tell. I am more looking to play a "semi-comp" army with the models I enjoy so Bella and Radukar are a must.

They proc MWs on 6s and can get like +4 attacks (some of those buffs are not very practical though). 25mm bases and 6" pile in means tons of models in range. They absolutely slap.

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7 minutes ago, umpac said:

They proc MWs on 6s and can get like +4 attacks (some of those buffs are not very practical though). 25mm bases and 6" pile in means tons of models in range. They absolutely slap.

Cap on bonuses to hit/wound do knee cap them though 

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1 minute ago, Jaxler said:

Cap on bonuses to hit/wound do knee cap them though 

Not really. You don't really care about them actually wounding, you're just fishing for a ton of 6's to hit.

If only there was a reroll hits for Deadwalkers somewhere in the book... anyone seen something like that?

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3 minutes ago, FeralMulan said:

Not really. You don't really care about them actually wounding, you're just fishing for a ton of 6's to hit.

If only there was a reroll hits for Deadwalkers somewhere in the book... anyone seen something like that?

Don't think there are any Deadwalker specific buffs in at all, if I'm not mistaken--just stuff they share with Deathrattle and Deathrattle exclusive stuff. Might explain why the skeletons are more points per model, especially if the Wight King command ability ends up being usable somehow.

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5 minutes ago, Ghoooouls said:

Can someone explain the skeleton rule? What does 'they come back on 4+ when selected to fight' mean? Anything that has died gets to roll a 4+ or you roll a single 4+ and all the dead ones come back?

Cheers.

Things that died IN THAT PHASE. So it basically doesn't work if they are selected to fight before they have taken any sort of casualties in that phase. So no Skeletons are more of a defensive unit. Have them sit on an objective and (hopefully) regenerate.

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5 hours ago, Aren73 said:

 

 

(Just don't talk to me about the generic vampire lord or "vampire powers" or customisation options or flavour as I don't think I can stop being salty about those)

I am still unsure why you think Vampire Lords are bad. Or that the lore of Vampires is. 

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4 minutes ago, Ghoooouls said:

Can someone explain the skeleton rule? What does 'they come back on 4+ when selected to fight' mean? Anything that has died gets to roll a 4+ or you roll a single 4+ and all the dead ones come back?

Cheers.

Ok, my spanish is pretty rusty, and it's hard to make out the text in the picture, but the way I'm reading it is that when you activate them in combat, before piling in and attacking, you roll a d6 for each model in the unit that was already killed in that combat phase, and on a 4+ you return that model to the unit.

So Let's say you charge into combat with a Vengorian Lord and a unit of 30 skeletons.  You activate the Vengorian first.  Then your opponent activates, & since the skeletons haven't attacked yet your opponent attacks the skeletons, killing 20.  Then you activate the skeletons.  20 skeletons have died so far in this combat phase, so you roll 20 dice, and on average restore 10 skeletons to the unit.  So the skeletons are back up to 20 models when they pile in and attack....

not that it matters all that much, because their attacks are garbage.

There are some potential synergies here, though.  Like, if a necromancer cast vanhels on the skeletons, then by my reading when you choose to activate them a second time, you again roll to return models - though it's somewhat unclear to me whether you'd then roll 20 dice again since 20 skeletons died that turn, or if you'd only roll 10 dice because only 10 skeletons were still dead.

I could be wrong on that.  Again, a lot of the text is fuzzy and hard to make out, it might have a 'once per turn' or 'for the first time' limit preventing you from stack healing with vanhels.

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Just now, Envyus said:

I am still unsure why you think Vampire Lords are bad. Or that the lore of Vampires is. 

Lore of Vampires is objectively terrible. I made a post earlier breaking it down, but to summarise here:

 

 - Blades of Shysish: each unit nearby takes max 1 MW, and only on an extra roll. Pass.

 - Spirit Gale: Actually decent, but again, relies on an extra roll AFTER casting, and can be useless into certain armies

 - Soulspike: Again, extra roll rider based on your enemy's roll - just random chance on top of random chance to MAYBE do MW, IF and only if they charge and do it well
 - Pinions - pretty good, but cannot benefit from our cool magic ability. Why.

 - Vile Transference: Utter garbage. I hope I don't have to explain this one.

 - Amethyst Orb: This one can be good, but relies a lot on positioning: be in the right place at the right time. Still, probably the second best of the bunch.

 

None of the spells feel like they add anything to the theme of the army, almost all of them have extra riders once you managed to cast them, and on top of that, most of our vampires only have 1 spell, which in a lot of games they'll likely need for the new healing spells. Hard pass.

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So this is my first attempt at a list designed to power up skellys. There's another build with coven throne, but I personally don't want to spend that many points on a single command ability, especially when buffs will be capped to +1 soon.

Spoiler

     Vyrkos Bloodline
Belladamma Volga (200) 
     - Amethystine Pinions (+6 move to user)
Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon (435)
     -General: Kin of the Wolf / Hunter's Snare
     -Amethstine Pinions
Vampire Lord (140)
     -Soulpike (MW when enemy charges)
Vampire Lord (140)
     -Soulpike
Necromancer (125)
     -Overwhelming Dread (18" -1 to hit)
30 Skeletons (255)
30 Skeletons (255)
20 Grave Guard (280)
10 Dire Wolves (135)
Prismatic Palisade (30)
TOTAL 1995

Half my points are in heroes, but the skellys need support to do anything. Vrykos gives deathrattle wholly within 12" of vampire heroes +1 to wound. Foot vampires stay by skellys to give +1 attacks, trigger convocation, punish charges and trigger deathless minions shrug. Bella and Necro stick by Grave Guard and buff them with exploding 6s and attacks twice. VLoZD smashes highest priority threat.

Kin of the wolf command trait will get me a free wolf screen unit, but I'm tempted to take hunters snare so he counts as 11 models for some objective pressure. Bella's spell can also spawn more wolves to tie stuff up and can give wolves 6" pile in shenanigans. Might drop a foot vamp for another dire wolf screen or cogs to boost skellys 4" move. thoughts?

Breaks my heart leaving out Black Knights and Wight King, but they will look sweet on the shelf!

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1 minute ago, Envyus said:

I am still unsure why you think Vampire Lords are bad. Or that the lore of Vampires is. 

I think this was meant for someone else, but I have complained about them some, so for my part?

I don't think they're BAD.  Just worse than they currently are.  No mount option, lower speed when flying (can't keep up with / buff our faster units, can't redeploy out of harms way as easily), no signature spell (not that it saw much use, but still), command ability is wholly within (expected but still weaker), and only affects SG Summunable units, not any death unit.  Vamp lore is weaker.  Invocation is weaker (because it can't stack with other heroes on the same unit).  No chalice.  Larger base size.

There were a whole bunch of changes to this guy, very few of them positive.  3+ save and d3 hunger don't tip the balance imo.  You still might take one for the attack buff to play on zombies or grave guard, but yeah, less impressive overall, way less versatile.  And that on top of the game just kind of leaving his combat stats behind, and leaving his magic abilities /way/ behind.

Staying at 140 points for that is just... it's a lot for what this guy does.

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1 hour ago, NicholasFlamelGames said:

This ^^ rend please. For the love of god where is all the rend :p.

it's in mortal wounds on sixes for zombies, grave guard and the spirit hosts carrying manny, nef, mortis, throne, & palanquin; impact hits for lauka/venga/mounted wight king/black knights; screams on terrorgheists & mortis engines; and Vhordrai's lance.

Not a great answer, but there you go.

but yeah, dang would wight kings granting +1 rend to deathrattle units have been nice.  Maybe not nice enough to make them could, but enough that I wouldn't be feeling so bad about the lousy new gorgeous wight king and their terrible, terrible black knights.

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2 minutes ago, FeralMulan said:

Lore of Vampires is objectively terrible. I made a post earlier breaking it down, but to summarise here:

 

 - Blades of Shysish: each unit nearby takes max 1 MW, and only on an extra roll. Pass.

 - Spirit Gale: Actually decent, but again, relies on an extra roll AFTER casting, and can be useless into certain armies

 - Soulspike: Again, extra roll rider based on your enemy's roll - just random chance on top of random chance to MAYBE do MW, IF and only if they charge and do it well
 - Pinions - pretty good, but cannot benefit from our cool magic ability. Why.

 - Vile Transference: Utter garbage. I hope I don't have to explain this one.

 - Amethyst Orb: This one can be good, but relies a lot on positioning: be in the right place at the right time. Still, probably the second best of the bunch.

 

None of the spells feel like they add anything to the theme of the army, almost all of them have extra riders once you managed to cast them, and on top of that, most of our vampires only have 1 spell, which in a lot of games they'll likely need for the new healing spells. Hard pass.

So yeah I disagree with you pretty heavily.  It's a lore for dealing damage, And is something Vampires will use if they don't need to heal a unit that turn. Also remember any time a caster gets a 9+ the spell goes off again. 

-Blades of Shyish: Easy to Cast Spell that deals 1 mortal wound in a wide area. If the Vamp is in the middle of a large group of enemies units it can be helpful to weaken them. It's just some extra weakening. 

-Spirit Gale: A spell that depends on who you are fighting. It should be taken based on that. 

-Soulspike: A pretty useful spell that can hurt combat heroes pretty hard. They have to also decide if they want to risk potentially dying if they charge.

-Pinions: It's a good spell.

-Vile Transference: The weakest spell, intended to heal the caster if they are fighting big monsters. It should probably deal damage too at least. 

-The Orb: Honestly it's just a pretty good spell.

So overall I don't agree the Lore of Vampires is bad. Particularly if the spells go off twice. 

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The more I read this book the more excited I get. I was Doom and Gloom on first go around, but I am seeing some POSSIBILITIES now. Here are some more thoughts:

 - Lauka Vai in Avengorii seems pretty good if supported by a VLoZD, especially if more terrain is introduced - her spell can make enemy charges HELL, if you position her right.
 - Generic Vengorian seems KICKASS in Kastelai for one reason: no mount. All the buffs to damage and the like go straight on him. Big boy Smashbat anyone? (Smash-taur?)
 - Coven Throne and Blood Knights seems way good in general, but ESPECIALLY in Vyrkos. With Pack Alpha, you can use CA on two units for the price of one, her spellcasting becomes way more reliable, helping to shut down big enemy bricks. Will need to wait for relics to be released to be sure, but that and your own brick of GraveGurad could be money.
 - I am really confused by the Corpse Cart. It say add +1 to save rolls for Deadwalker Zombies... but they don't have a Save characteristic. Any ideas??
 - Endless Legions can bring back the "half Strength" of the same unit multiple times, and probably best used on big blocks of dogs, who seem like a really good Wound to Point ratio
 - I think Grave-Sand Shard's 5+ FNP will be low-key super powerful. A Big brick of buffed Blood Knights will become HELL to remove.

Throw some more my way people, come on! Engage the theory crafting.

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Her are my thoughts so far:

So I read all posts now and I’m really wondering why no one ist talking over Radukar? He summons 10 wolves, is a powerhouse in combat and his Command Ability gives +1 Attack in a 18 inch Bubble! 
 

Also what i think is very very very strong is kastelei with Rousing Commander! Once per Battle +1 A +1 wound in a 12 inch Bubble? Wtf 

Coven Throne is a No Brainer.+1 Hit +1 to Wound and + 1 save.

Blood Knights and Grave Guards very good units!

Prince V let a other Hero Attack in the Hero Phase? Yes please.

Grave sand kastelei artifacts makes your save 5++ for one round. 
 

Kastelei seems for me to be the best Bloodline. This are the things that shine for me and say I’m competitive. So let’s try to make a list out of them with some comments of combos. Really want to know your opinion, maybe I’m wrong, but this looks for me like a very very very strong list:

Prince Vhordrai      (455 points) (Powerhouse, CA Ability: Let Radukar or CT attack in the Hero Phase)

Radukar     (325 points) (summons 10 wolves, +1 Attack bubble)

Coven Throne (310) (gets Grave Sand and Commander: 1 turn Deathless save 5+ Bubble and +1 Atk +1 W Bubble, Command ability! 

3x 5 Bloodknights (585 points)(Battleline)

20 Grave Guards (280 points)( So our Allegiance ability’s is not completly wasted, we can bring back wolves and/or Guards, also +1 atk from Radukar or can be buffed by ct)

Total: 1950 points +50 for 1 Cp

Goal :

1.Charge

2.Activate all your Bubbles

3.Attack again in Hero Phase

4. Get all Buffs from Kastelei after killing some units

what do you think??

Edited by Erdemo86
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1 minute ago, FeralMulan said:

 - I am really confused by the Corpse Cart. It say add +1 to save rolls for Deadwalker Zombies... but they don't have a Save characteristic. Any ideas??

Nil saves count as 7+.  Give them +1 save and they get a 6+ save.  Still pretty meh, but the cart is cheap and buffs casting, which a necro can use to try to get off vanhels on them.

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5 minutes ago, Sception said:

I think this was meant for someone else, but I have complained about them some, so for my part?

I don't think they're BAD.  Just worse than they currently are.  No mount option, lower speed when flying (can't keep up with / buff our faster units, can't redeploy out of harms way as easily), no signature spell (not that it saw much use, but still), command ability is wholly within (expected but still weaker), and only affects SG Summunable units, not any death unit.  Vamp lore is weaker.  Invocation is weaker (because it can't stack with other heroes on the same unit).  No chalice.  Larger base size.

There were a whole bunch of changes to this guy, very few of them positive.  3+ save and d3 hunger don't tip the balance imo.  You still might take one for the attack buff to play on zombies or grave guard, but yeah, less impressive overall, way less versatile.  And that on top of the game just kind of leaving his combat stats behind, and leaving his magic abilities /way/ behind.

Staying at 140 points for that is just... it's a lot for what this guy does.

This. 

And while Sception gets this question from the left I'll attack it from the right. 

Non-named vampire lords are boring. They are really, truly, awfully bland. They have a generic moderate damage output, a low level spellcasting ability and...I guess they have the hunger. They don't have any further customisation options, aside from an artefact and a command trait. They don't really do any fun, cool, flavourful lore stuff. 

Why should they? 

Well, they are the face of our faction. Soulblight Gravelords, it's Vampire Lords. Vampire Lords the faction. And yet in said faction, Vampire Lords are on par with Wight Kings and Fell Bats as the most boring and bland unit in the book. 

Wouldn't it have been cool if you could give them a vampiric power, for example to fly and move 10" (Flying Horror) or to strike first in combat, or -1 Bravery for enemy units within 6", or to cast one more spell, +1 to casting, give rerolls of hits of 1 to units around them etc.  It is so easy to come up with a fun and flavourful list of medium power customisations which would have really helped these guys stand out. 


Sounds broken? A small points hike would have easily fixed that, though for 140pts and their current profile, I actually don't think it's too much. 

My issue is that it's such an easy, obvious, previously explored thing to do. It instantly adds flavour. It helps with list building. It's there for other factions in the form of mount traits. So why not? 

We are playing the Vampire Lords faction....and yet I for one don't feel enthused to field a Vampire Lord. 

 

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8 minutes ago, Envyus said:

So yeah I disagree with you pretty heavily.  It's a lore for dealing damage, And is something Vampires will use if they don't need to heal a unit that turn. Also remember any time a caster gets a 9+ the spell goes off again. 

-Blades of Shyish: Easy to Cast Spell that deals 1 mortal wound in a wide area. If the Vamp is in the middle of a large group of enemies units it can be helpful to weaken them. It's just some extra weakening.  Name me one unit in the game that is "weakened" by taking 1 mortal wound more than I am hurt by standing next to a bunch of them. At that point, why not literally cast Arcane Bolt.

-Spirit Gale: A spell that depends on who you are fighting. It should be taken based on that. Maybe in casual? normally you decide your spells on your list, not once you know your enemy

-Soulspike: A pretty useful spell that can hurt combat heroes pretty hard. They have to also decide if they want to risk potentially dying if they charge. My point is that this is SUPER unreliable. You have to a) have them make the charge with a large number (you don't control this) b.) make those 4+rolls (more variance on top of the previous one) c.) have that combat hero actually be threatened by the amount of MW you can put out. And once again, if not into an army with low wound combat heroes the spell does very little

-Pinions: It's a good spell. No argument there.

-Vile Transference: The weakest spell, intended to heal the caster if they are fighting big monsters. It should probably deal damage too at least. Yup, pretty abysmal.

-The Orb: Honestly it's just a pretty good spell. If you start your hero phase in position to hit two enemies within 9" I guess it is.  Seems easy to outmaneuver, but potentially great. Notice that it is not just "friendly" Death units that are immune, which means into certain armies it is LITERALLY useless.

So overall I don't agree the Lore of Vampires is bad. Particularly if the spells go off twice.  Yeah, but the unmodified 9+ roll is so unreliable it is basically a meme. So, yes, it is nice when it happens, but it is not something you can actually build and strategize around. 

Oh I have some notes on your notes comrade :D 

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14 minutes ago, Erdemo86 said:

Her are my thoughts so far:

So I read all posts now and I’m really wondering why no one ist talking over Radukar? He summons 10 wolves, is a powerhouse in combat and his Command Ability gives +1 Attack in a 18 inch Bubble! 
 

Also what i think is very very very strong is kastelei with Rousing Commander! Once per Battle +1 A +1 wound in a 12 inch Bubble? Wtf 

Coven Throne is a No Brainer.+1 Hit +1 to Wound and + 1 save.

Blood Knights and Grave Guards very good units!

Prince V let a other Hero Attack in the Hero Phase? Yes please.

Grave sand kastelei artifacts makes your save 5++ for one round. 
 

Kastelei seems for me to be the best Bloodline. This are the things that shine for me and say I’m competitive. So let’s try to make a list out of them with some comments of combos. Really want to know your opinion, maybe I’m wrong, but this looks for me like a very very very strong list:

Prince Vhordrai      (455 points) (Powerhouse, CA Ability: Let Radukar or CT attack in the Hero Phase)

Radukar     (325 points) (summons 10 wolves, +1 Attack bubble)

Coven Throne (310) (gets Grave Sand and Commander: 1 turn Deathless save 5+ Bubble and +1 Atk +1 W Bubble, Command ability! 

3x 5 Bloodknights (585 points)(Battleline)

20 Grave Guards (280 points)( So our Allegiance ability’s is not completly wasted, we can bring back wolves and/or Guards, also +1 atk from Radukar or can be buffed by ct)

Total: 1950 points +50 for 1 Cp

Goal :

1.Charge

2.Activate all your Bubbles

3.Attack again in Hero Phase

4. Get all Buffs from Kastelei after killing some units

what do you think??

Eerm, couple of points:

Rousing commander does not give +1 Attack, it gives +1 Damage. It also does not add +1 to Wound rolls, but to Wound characteristic, meaning +1 health, essentially.

Attacking in your hero phase can be strong.... if your enemy lets you. We have no way of stopping an enemy from falling back, so the enemy could just run away, or alternatively, kill you right back in their turn! There may be some situations where this is useful, but not many.

Also, remember that CP is limited. You are already using 1 on Coven Throne and 1 on Radukar in your list, so... where does the 3rd one for the Prince comes from? 

Could be good, but I personally don't rate Radukar too high. Also a reason people aren't talking about it: His model is not out, and we don't know when it is coming out.

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11 minutes ago, Erdemo86 said:
Spoiler

 

Her are my thoughts so far:

So I read all posts now and I’m really wondering why no one ist talking over Radukar? He summons 10 wolves, is a powerhouse in combat and his Command Ability gives +1 Attack in a 18 inch Bubble! 
 

Also what i think is very very very strong is kastelei with Rousing Commander! Once per Battle +1 A +1 wound in a 12 inch Bubble? Wtf 

Coven Throne is a No Brainer.+1 Hit +1 to Wound and + 1 save.

Blood Knights and Grave Guards very good units!

Prince V let a other Hero Attack in the Hero Phase? Yes please.

Grave sand kastelei artifacts makes your save 5++ for one round. 
 

Kastelei seems for me to be the best Bloodline. This are the things that shine for me and say I’m competitive. So let’s try to make a list out of them with some comments of combos. Really want to know your opinion, maybe I’m wrong, but this looks for me like a very very very strong list:

Prince Vhordrai      (455 points) (Powerhouse, CA Ability: Let Radukar or CT attack in the Hero Phase)

Radukar     (325 points) (summons 10 wolves, +1 Attack bubble)

Coven Throne (310) (gets Grave Sand and Commander: 1 turn Deathless save 5+ Bubble and +1 Atk +1 W Bubble, Command ability! 

3x 5 Bloodknights (585 points)(Battleline)

20 Grave Guards (280 points)( So our Allegiance ability’s is not completly wasted, we can bring back wolves and/or Guards, also +1 atk from Radukar or can be buffed by ct)

Total: 1950 points +50 for 1 Cp

 

what do you think??

 

 

Bloodknights and Coven Throne are really a good combo but I am not sure if Vargheists or VLoZD are not better targets as they are faster and less reliable on the charge to succeed, althrough also less likely to survive. I also see KASTELEI as a great choice here, with the chance of simply rolling over the opponent. 

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2 minutes ago, FeralMulan said:

Eerm, couple of points:

Rousing commander does not give +1 Attack, it gives +1 Damage. It also does not add +1 to Wound rolls, but to Wound characteristic, meaning +1 health, essentially.

Attacking in your hero phase can be strong.... if your enemy lets you. We have no way of stopping an enemy from falling back, so the enemy could just run away, or alternatively, kill you right back in their turn! There may be some situations where this is useful, but not many.

Also, remember that CP is limited. You are already using 1 on Coven Throne and 1 on Radukar in your list, so... where does the 3rd one for the Prince comes from? 

Could be good, but I personally don't rate Radukar too high. Also a reason people aren't talking about it: His model is not out, and we don't know when it is coming out.

Yeah sorry +1 dmg. And I meant+1 W. You’re right. I don’t think That you will activate your bubbles in the first turn, because it will be hard to get in melee first turn. So first turn you are only using 1 Cp to Summon with Radukar.And try to screen with them. Maybe even deepstrike your graveguards on an objectives and move forward.Maybe activating your 5++ ward save to reduce losses. 2nd turn you will have 2 CP to activate 2 of your Command Ability’s. 

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