Soulblight Gravelords News, Rumours and Speculation

[Aren73]

And another positive (I'm on a roll here  )

Vengorian Lords and Lauka are good. I was worried they wouldn't be, but they are. 

The rend worsening aura is great, the damage output for their points is good, they have interesting abilities and spells. 

I'm tempted to run two, or one of each!

[Zeblasky]

So, while I haven't seen all the leaks, I do have enough information to bring enough counter points about "Blood Knights are nerfed or overpriced". I personally believed them to be around 250 cost when I've seen their profile, they would be quite balanced at that price. But at 195 points they are actually a steal.

Sure, 10 movement is simply standard for a heavy cavalry. And sure, Blood Knights do not seem super amazing as combat damage dealers and their rend is quite low. But for their points this damage is very, very good. They outdamage 2 Fulminators (220 points of a very good unit) on the charge (with Fulminators shooting included!) versus 4+ save. And, unlike Fulminators, they will get their charge bonus Every Single Charge Phase.

(and too all "oh, but rules say they can't do that!", do you obviously believe that with the intent so clear this issue would not be at the very least clearly FAQed?)

And then you add an ability to deal mortal wounds by going over infantry. Depending on number of infantry units in your way, it gives you an average 2-6 mortal wounds per movement phase, so the best way to run BK would be obviously in MSUs. It's a slightly situational ability, sure, but versus 4+ save single infantry unit it's almost 20% increase in average damage in your turn. Add 2 more nearby units, and your BK deal 60% more damage instead. So their actual damage in Soulblight player turn is even higher.

And then there is their tankiness, which is frankly amazing. 15 wounds on 3+ save, D3 heal every combat phase with kills, 6+ Restless Dead and then potential 2-3 D3 healing-returning models from their faction gives them A LOT of staying power. But that's the thing - Blood Knights don't want to be staying in the same place! Unless you can kill them outright or block them with a huge conga line of your own cavalry, every movement phase they will choose themselfs a new engagement or will simply refresh their charge bonus. You cannot tarpit them. Infantry screens are pitstops for them and your backline mages and archers are always within their reach. This is kinda unique and again, amazing.

So, new Blood Knights are tanky and moderately deadly anti infantry avalanche that you can only stop by killing them or drowning in cavalry. They won't like fighting cavalry or monsters, getting charged first (although for them it's much, MUCH less of an issue if compared to units like Wild Riders or Fulminators) or simply get shot by missile focus fire, so they will still have quite a few nice counterplays. It's not a unit you can take a whole army of (like Eels), it's a unit, that has a clear somewhat specific role that it exels at. But, other than that, all undead players should be very happy to have then at such quite low price point.

Edited May 13, 2021 by Zeblasky

[Sception]

10 minutes ago, Boar said:

I see, I didn't considered that, thanks.

Tough if someone would want different uses for them (ie. in larger units) their high effective wounds per points and them being summonable ie. healable could make them as usefull anvil/ tough chaff/board control tool. And they even got tiny bit cheaper from what I see.

Sure, but our healing options are limited, and 2 wounds is a pretty non-ideal wound count for what healing options we do have.  If there's a wounded model then you can only heal that one wound, resulting in wasted points of healing if your d3 comes up 2 or 3.  If they have no wounded models then you can roll a 1 on that d3 and not get enough healing to bring back any.  And since you can only invoke a unit once per turn now you can't even try again if you happen to have another hero nearby.

We also lose the mounted and fast flying options for vampire lords (they still fly, just not very fast), which would otherwise have been the main option for buffing a big dire wolf blob meant for brawling, and their offensive profile isn't terribly impressive without buffs.  Radukar and Vulga can more or less keep pace and buff them... which, again, yeah.  Not nerfed in lists with those characters.

Edited May 13, 2021 by Sception

[Lich King]

Two notes : how does the new vamp lord fly? Lifted by bats?

Also - many of our warscrolls gained significant buffs in the Save department : 3+’s. 
 

I’m mostly bummed about the spells nerf but again : 3rd is around the corner. I’m sure this was written to coincide with that .

[Aren73]

How does this look? This is a list I'd be excited to play, though I can already see that it's lacking in the rend/mortal wound department.    Kastelai List
5 Blood Knights	195
5 Blood Knights	195
5 Blood Knights	195
6 Vargheists	310
Vengorian Lord	280
20 Grave Guard with shields	280
3 Fell Bats	75
3 Fell Bats	75
3 Vargheists	155
3 Vargheists	155
Fellwing Flock	80
Rousing Commander
Amaranthine Orb
Fragment of the Keep
	1995

[Boar]

8 minutes ago, Sception said:

If there's a wounded model then you can only heal that one wound, resulting in wasted points of healing if your d3 comes up 2 or 3. 

Yeah, healing wolves is not really impressive

 

2 minutes ago, Lich King said:

Two notes : how does the new vamp lord fly? Lifted by bats?

I suppose by turning into bat swarm

[Sception]

7 minutes ago, Boar said:

I suppose by turning into bat swarm

carried by bats tugging on their hair.

This also explains why their movement speed is so slow compared to other fliers in the army.

Edited May 13, 2021 by Sception

[Nightseer2012]

Besides being worried about a lot in here, I do like the synergy of running both Lauka Val and another Vengorian Lord.  Between Both of their CA’s and the Lords spell, you can get some ZDragons/Terrorgheists to be 3+/2+, drastically increasing their killing power.  That monster ball will be wounded at -1, and negating a point of rend, also great.  Then once per turn you can pick a monster to fight at full health when it isn’t (once per battle per monster)?  That is a scary Avengorii ball that can also heal itself, which isn’t bad in for 850ish pts.

[Doko]

3 hours ago, sandlemad said:

@warhammernerd You're doing that hyper-aggressive mandatory positivity thing again. Saying 'all feelings are valid' and then immediately dumping hard over people who are disappointed isn't an excuse. It's quite offputting.

Yes this 100%.

 

This dude is only in their world or something if see this tome as buffs.

Something as black knigth same cost,but lost lance and shield and now heal d3 per turn and not 5 d3 as before and come back with a 5+ the 50% and not a 100% chance of come back all the unit.

 

All the tome are nerfs,only grave guard is good and then as 3 others units are ok,the rest are umplayable

[DecayOfSouls]

What happened to the Varghulf? I don't see him in the list, he must just be an option for FEC now?

[Beliman]

7 minutes ago, Aren73 said:

How does this look? This is a list I'd be excited to play, though I can already see that it's lacking in the rend/mortal wound department.    Kastelai List
5 Blood Knights	195
5 Blood Knights	195
5 Blood Knights	195
6 Vargheists	310
Vengorian Lord	280
20 Grave Guard with shields	280
3 Fell Bats	75
3 Fell Bats	75
3 Vargheists	155
3 Vargheists	155
Fellwing Flock	80
Rousing Commander
Amaranthine Orb
Fragment of the Keep
	1995

Seems so powerful. With so many beaters, maybe looking for a coven throne? It has enough movement and fly, and it's really annoying (CP is so much powerful and shrudder can surprise in the late game).

What do you think about Fellwing Flock?

[BaylorCorvette]

Wow, some of y'all think our book is like Beast of Chaos. I pretty much only play in tournaments and can tell you right now that this book has some play. Yes certain things got nerfted but other things got buffed. Soulblight Gravelords isn't S Tier, probably fat middle which is completely OK and I'm find with that. I get the desire to want to play Soulblight Gravelords like the old LoN book of just drowning your opponent in models that keep coming back, but honestly (in my opinion) that was a super boring way to play. Before you claim this is a trash book and isn't competitive just wait to play it. I personally have a game lined up with a buddy early next week now that we have the rules leaked I can play Gravelords, then the second Saturday in June I'll be taking Gravelords to a tournament. As of right now and having seen like 90% of the book, I am confident that this book can win and do decently well in tournaments, but it is going to take work to do so which is what I prefer. 

Also, one last closing thought. Based on a lot of the rules and way things are written it is obvious that there are some things that are going to change in 3.0.

Edited May 13, 2021 by BaylorCorvette

[Sartxac]

5 minutes ago, Nightseer2012 said:

Besides being worried about a lot in here, I do like the synergy of running both Lauka Val and another Vengorian Lord.  Between Both of their CA’s and the Lords spell, you can get some ZDragons/Terrorgheists to be 3+/2+, drastically increasing their killing power.  That monster ball will be wounded at -1, and negating a point of rend, also great.  Then once per turn you can pick a monster to fight at full health when it isn’t (once per battle per monster)?  That is a scary Avengorii ball that can also heal itself, which isn’t bad in for 850ish pts.

You need the spell of Vengorian Lord and the CA of Lauka Vai and only vs one enemy unit within 12".

[Liquidsteel]

5 minutes ago, Doko said:

the rest are umplayable

Ridiculous statement.

[Sception]

1 minute ago, Doko said:

All the tome are nerfs,only grave guard is good and then as 3 others units are ok,the rest are umplayable

I think it's more bad than good, more nerf than buff, but I think this statement goes too far.  Grave guard look alright, I'm not even sure I'd call them good.  on the other hand, blood knights, zombies, Vhordrai, Mannfred, corpse cart, avengoriii terrorgheists, volga, radubeast, dire wolves with volga & radubeast, all look ok too, and that's well over 3.  Lauka/Venga & dire bats (as the newer, faster, flying, but not battleline version of what we used to use dire wolves for) may be ok, too.  & we haven't seen Nef or Skittletlons yet.  That's already threatening over half of the units being at least ok if you don't count side game stuff.

[Sartxac]

1 minute ago, Sception said:

I think it's more bad than good, more nerf than buff, but I think this statement goes too far.  Grave guard look alright, I'm not even sure I'd call them good.  on the other hand, blood knights, zombies, Vhordrai, Mannfred, corpse cart, avengoriii terrorgheists, volga, radubeast, dire wolves with volga & radubeast, all look ok too, and that's well over 3.  Lauka/Venga & dire bats (as the newer, faster, flying, but not battleline version of what we used to use dire wolves for) may be ok, too.  & we haven't seen Nef or Skittletlons yet.  That's already threatening over half of the units being at least ok if you don't count side game stuff.

Why do you think that Vhordrai is good in comparison with other monsters around 400-500p?

Edited May 13, 2021 by Sartxac

[Aren73]

2 minutes ago, Doko said:

Yes this 100%.

 

This dude is only in their world or something if see this tome as buffs.

Something as black knigth same cost,but lost lance and shield and now heal d3 per turn and not 5 d3 as before and come back with a 5+ the 50% and not a 100% chance of come back all the unit.

 

All the tome are nerfs,only grave guard is good and then as 3 others units are ok,the rest are umplayable

Nah that's going a bit too far. The units I see as good or decent would be:

Grave Guard
Zombies
Coven Throne
Vargheists
Blood Knights
Vengorian Lord
Lauka
Corpse Carts
Mannfred
Vhordrai
There might be more, I need more time with the book.

There are plenty of decent options. There are also plenty of disappointing options too, it's a mixed bag in general. 

3 minutes ago, Beliman said:

Seems so powerful. With so many beaters, maybe looking for a coven throne? It has enough movement and fly, and it's really annoying (CP is so much powerful and shrudder can surprise in the late game).

What do you think about Fellwing Flock?

Ah I'd have to get rid of something though, perhaps a unit of Vargheists and make the GG into skellies? 

I think Fellwing Flock is decent - it helps Vargheists hit that much harder without too much of a tax. Solid battalion, I hope we get to use it for longer than a few months

[Sception]

Just now, Sartxac said:

Why do you think that Vhordrai is good in comparison with other mosnters around 400-500p?

maintains the self healing chalice, lance is beastly on the charge.

[Liquidsteel]

So below is what I'm pondering as a Kastelai list.

Vhordrai, Vengorian and Vargheists form the "Vengabus" along with some Knights. You pop Rousing Commander to hit like freight trains and level up, whilst the Zombies move up, ready to start getting chewed up and spat out again.

 

Vhordrai	455
Vengorian Lord	280
- Rousing Commander
- Fragment of the Keep
Necromancer	125
Zombies x 40	230
Zombies x 20	115
Blood Knights x 5	195
Blood Knights x 5	195
Vargheists x 6	310
Corpse Cart	80

[Adamcbutton]

7 minutes ago, DecayOfSouls said:

What happened to the Varghulf? I don't see him in the list, he must just be an option for FEC now?

Varghulf was never an option for Legions of Nagash, which this tome is essentially updating; it’s been a FEC unit since AOS launched. 

[Tizianolol]

38 minutes ago, Aren73 said:

I definitely like this take on zombies. In WHFB I never took them, I just saw nothing interesting there. Now they are a different kind of threat other than just being a tarpit. 

If I heared correctly they ll cost 195 for 5..

[El Syf]

5 minutes ago, BaylorCorvette said:

Wow, some of y'all think our book is like Beast of Chaos. I pretty much only play in tournaments and can tell you right now that this book has some play. Yes certain things got nerfted but other things got buffed. Soulblight Gravelords isn't S Tier, probably fat middle which is completely OK and I'm find with that. I get the desire to want to play Soulblight Gravelords like the old LoN book of just drowning your opponent in models that keep coming back, but honestly (in my opinion) that was a super boring way to play. Before you claim this is a trash book and isn't competitive just wait to play it. I personally have a game lined up with a buddy early next week now that we have the rules leaked I can play Gravelords, then the second Saturday in June I'll be taking Gravelords to a tournament. As of right now and having seen like 90% of the book, I am confident that this book can win and do decently well in tournaments, but it is going to take work to do so which is what I prefer. 

I've run out of reactions for the day nut would have liked this if I could!

I'm coming from a complete casual gamer perspective, so surely it can't be all bad when someone that by their own admission only really plays in tournaments and me being more of a beer and pretzels gamer (don't think i've ever done if of those whilst playing but you know what I mean!) both think there are good things in the book and that they will be able to make lists from them that can be both fun in my case and competetive in @BaylorCorvette's case. Really don't see why there is so much hate.

[Tizianolol]

I think instrad of vargeist manfred could be better! The vamp lore is very good and he cast 2 spells

[JackStreicher]

38 minutes ago, Boar said:

I see, I didn't considered that, thanks.

Tough if someone would want different uses for them (ie. in larger units) their high effective wounds per points and them being summonable ie. healable could make them as usefull anvil/ tough chaff/board control tool. And they even got tiny bit cheaper from what I see.

Currently you get 1 wound per 6,75 points. They have speed, they hit harder than Black Knights when they charge and they‘re cool new models ^^
 

guess I‘ll be playing Radukar and wolves most of the time while casually mixing in Mannfred and blood knights ^^

[Sartxac]

10 minutes ago, Sception said:

maintains the self healing chalice, lance is beastly on the charge.

I don't see anhyting impressive for 455p.

Edited May 13, 2021 by Sartxac