What gaps are you hoping the new units will fill?

[kahadin]

Hey guys,

I've been seeing eye rolls and complaints everywhere about this new lumineth wave, but I'm pretty happy about it. To me and my playgroup the LRL initial release seemed like it was lacking and did not really present a coherent army.

I'm not saying LRL are bad, but the options that they provided and the unit selection available just did not really seem to fit. It felt like an incomplete army on release, like there were key elements to their play style missing.

Whenever I played LRL I tend to feel like I can probably outscore them if I can just sit on my objectives and kill their archers. That has pretty much been the case for me. My only really danger is the Spirit of the mountain rolling well, me suiciding a unit into a shining company that they cannot handle, or the archers shooting me off the table.  I'm not worried about an assault force coming to me to harass me in the games I've played.

With the wind stuff coming out I'm hoping LRL will actually be able to move and threaten the board more. They are also getting a mounted hero who will hopefully be able to make use of some of the combat artifacts in the book.

For people that actually play a lot of LRL do you perceive a gap in the army? If you do what is it and do you think the new wave will help?

[LuminethMage]

For me personally, I wasn’t really missing anything much. The main reason is because, I’m happy with a magic heavy castle-style army, reliant on squishy mage heroes, and generally think some limitations are good. The only thing I personally miss a bit is a glass cannon hammer. The Swordmasters were my favorite unit in Fantasy, and hopefully the Bladelords will fill that role. 

That said, the new models, if they work out correctly make the LRL a much more complete army, and will open up play styles. 

The Lord Regent, a generic melee hero on a mount, is probably what most people missed the most, and felt a bit strange not being included in the first wave.  A hero which can use most of the artifacts and hopefully has some synergy with the Dawnriders and other Vanari. Although I didn’t personally miss it, that is the unit I’m most happy to see, because I think that will make the Lumineth feel more complete and attractive for more people. 

As you mention, the Wind Temple is great, because speed and board presence is something the army is generally missing, although we have a few options. Especially if the Lord Regent also makes Dawnriders stronger. 

I hope will get a few more funny tricks in our bags (manipulating terrain for example) but become less reliant on MW, as many people don’t enjoy going up against that. 

[kahadin]

I have felt a lot of pain from LRL spells, but some of the best options never seem to go off for them in the games I've played (Nobody is playing Teclis yet).

I get the feeling the army would pop with his autocasts, but I have not taken their magic super seriously because a lot of casts are s high I never really see the spells on the table.

Edited March 14, 2021 by kahadin
spelling

[Jeremierty]

19 minutes ago, kahadin said:

I have felt a lot of pain from LRL spells, but some of the best options never seem to go off for them in the games I've played (Nobody is playing Teclis yet).

I get the feeling the army would pop with his autocasts, but I have not taken their magic super seriously because a lot of casts are s high I never really see the spells on the table.

Maybe the hishian twinstones can be a great help for that ? Also if you play Syar having 2 aetherquartz can allow you to dedicate 1 for the reroll of a very important spell

[kahadin]

I'm getting the impression, I've been getting the wrong impression about LRL.

Either way! I'm still excited to see the new wave.

[OkayestDM]

In fairness, the army really doesn't have egregious holes so far as functionality is concerned, and many of it's inherent weaknesses can be mitigated with judicious use of spells and Aetherquartz. As it is, LRL is a pretty strong force with lots of tools, and I'd hate form them to become too powerful or have no weaknesses at all. Still, diversity and becoming overpowered don't necessarily go hand in hand, and a wider array of heroes will be most welcome to this army, particularly if they allow for more expression in play style. To that end, here's my answer:

I'm hoping that the new units increase the army's mobility. Either the Hurakan introducing spells that move or teleport units around the board, or else certain heroes having command abilities that allow a unit to form up into a shining company mid-game, thus freeing them up to run across the board early in the game and still be able to capitalize on the defensive abilities later, or else really focus in on holding a key objective.

I'll also be happy if Bladelords turn out to be a dedicated hammer unit that balances speed and killing power, making them a legitimate threat that has to be taken into consideration. Much of the Lumineth strategy is currently defensive "hold-the-line" tactics, it would be nice to have some more offensive build options.

All that said, one of the key elements that I love about the current Lumineth design is that, despite all of our tools and options, there's a strong give-and-take aspect to all of them (Aetherquartz reduces bravery, Shining Company reduces movement, Dawnriders are amazing against infantry but fold to other cavalry, the Alarith temple synergies well within itself but hardly at all with the rest of the army). Granted this isn't perfectly consistent throughout all of the abilities and units, but it's a powerful theme that I feel perfectly demonstrates the internal struggle of the Lumineth both individually and as a people, and I earnestly hope that the designers are able to preserve this with all of the new units that they will be introducing. I don't necessarily want the units to make the army "better." Rather, with all of the new options opened up to us, I want us to have a broader range of compromises to make in our list building.

[LuminethMage]

5 hours ago, kahadin said:

I'm getting the impression, I've been getting the wrong impression about LRL.

Either way! I'm still excited to see the new wave.

Not necessarily, we don’t know what and how you and your friends play. So, for example what I wrote about magic might not apply. You can play Lumineth in a way where magic is just self buffs 90% of the time. 

And I think everyone here is very excited about the new wave. I didn’t miss anything specifically, but now that I know what we can get, I’m looking forward to get everything : ). Especially the Bladelords, Loreseeker and Calligrave. 

[jeremym]

I'll be honest here and say I'm not an LRL player. I play against them, but as such my impression is going to be different. I dont see what LRL is missing, and only giving then more options will make an already powerful army more powerful. 

Anyone who says the army felt incomplete seems ... i dunno, misguided. They compete in every aspect of the game. And their magic augments the areas theyre good at, and shores up the weaknesses of things they aren't great at (movement). I think theyre one of the most robust armies out there. 

I want them to get units, options and ideas for armies that aren't unilaterally competitive in every area of the game.  I want my friends to be able to play casual games and not accidently make net lists for tournament play 

Also... something that makes people stop playing Syar  (spelling? the double aetherquartz subfaction)

[Skreech Verminking]

I’m actually hoping that the new lumineth update brings much needed change for sentinels.

I don’t mind the mortal wound output, I just don’t like the rule, that they ignore line of sight, which in addition makes not much sense for a bow unit.

as for new units, I actually don’t really know if the lumineth currently really needed that update, although I’m pretty happy for everybody who’s been playing old highelfs, and are now able to almost use all of their old world kits  for the new range.

I also like the inclusion of an unnamed combat character, which should make the lumineth more interesting.

Edited March 15, 2021 by Skreech Verminking

[LuminethMage]

6 hours ago, jeremym said:

I'll be honest here and say I'm not an LRL player. I play against them, but as such my impression is going to be different. I dont see what LRL is missing, and only giving then more options will make an already powerful army more powerful. 

Anyone who says the army felt incomplete seems ... i dunno, misguided. They compete in every aspect of the game. And their magic augments the areas theyre good at, and shores up the weaknesses of things they aren't great at (movement). I think theyre one of the most robust armies out there. 

I want them to get units, options and ideas for armies that aren't unilaterally competitive in every area of the game.  I want my friends to be able to play casual games and not accidently make net lists for tournament play 

Also... something that makes people stop playing Syar  (spelling? the double aetherquartz subfaction)

If you friends want to do that, they already can. Play Ymetrica with a lot of Alarith for example, or almost any non-Teclis list with few archers. Then you aren’t competing anywhere much besides the combat phase. Almost no magic, few shooting, no charge or speed shenanigans, no teleports, no summoning, no fliers, no chaf. 

Look at the win rates. Right now, all in all Lumineth are around 50% win-rates in in-person games and on TTS. They are good, but not super powerful.

If you friends don’t play Syar and Teclis, they don’t really have a successful tournament list in most cases. The win rates are in the 30s for most these. That’s likely why your friends are playing Syar, and then not by accident. The problem is right now - from a competitive perspective only a few builds are really viable. A second problem is - which likely won’t get solved, 2 Aetherquartz are really fun to play with because of the flexibility that provides. If they don’t change that, I guess Syar will always be at least somewhat popular.

If everything goes well the new options will make lists besides these more viable without making the top lists stronger. But yeah, with so many new models there is sadly a chance that we’ll get some really OP builds. 

And of course some people will feel that the army is incomplete. If you want a fast, hard hitting army, you can’t do that right now (and that was a pretty common HE playstyle - so naturally many people expected to be able to do that). Lumineth have basically no fliers right now, another element which was really common for HE.  You don’t even have a normal “my guy” melee hero, like almost any other army out there.

People have all kind of expectations, and you don’t have to be misguided to feel something is lacking. 

[jeanfluflu]

i personnaly would love an elf on dragon, i have nostalgia of these days of warhammer fantasy where lords mounted on dragons facing each other were the coolest ****** ever (i know we have a big center piece with teclis but still.......DRAGON!

This said i have good hopes for the mounted character, i hope he can help the dawnriders, i'd also love the swordmen to be the deadly fragile melee warriors they're supposed to be (preferably good against elite units or big targets to mirror the dawnrider)

Edited March 17, 2021 by jeanfluflu

[LuminethMage]

6 hours ago, jeanfluflu said:

i personnaly would love an elf on dragon, i have nostalgia of these days of warhammer fantasy where lords mounted on dragons facing each other were the coolest ****** ever (i know we have a big center piece with teclis but still.......DRAGON!

This said i have good hopes for the mounted character, i hope he can help the dawnriders, i'd also love the swordmen to be the deadly fragile melee warriors they're supposed to be (preferably good against elite units or big targets to mirror the dawnrider)

There are lot of people whoshare your feeling : ). I think missing dragons were next to the horned helmets the single largest complain about the Lumineth when they were first released. They show dragons or dragon-like creatures in the Battletome art and on some of the models, so if the LRL sell well and we get another release for them, we should see them in the end : ). 

[Beliman]

On 3/14/2021 at 3:30 AM, kahadin said:

I've been seeing eye rolls and complaints everywhere about this new lumineth wave, but I'm pretty happy about it. To me and my playgroup the LRL initial release seemed like it was lacking and did not really present a coherent army.

Imho, Fyreslayers, KOs, Ironjawz, IDK, etc.. suffers from the same problem (low number of kits on release), and even if they look fine as an army, their gameplay is a bit "lacking".

Another thing that I really love about Lumineth is that they have a full Vanary Army and still some option to spice your lists with their Aelementari temples:

-Scinari Cathallar
-Eltharion 
-Lyrior Uthralle/ Lord Regent
-Vannari Bannerblade
-Scinari calligraphe
-Starshard Ballistas
-Wardens
-Sentinels
-Dawnriders
-Bladelords
-Lordseeker
-Ellania and Ellathor
-Shrine

That's AWESOME!! I really hope to have the same for my KOs, with diferent Chartered Companies giving new (and fluffy) models to spice my fleets (not gonna happen, but a man dwarf can dream).

Don't get me wrong, I'm really happy to see a second wave of Lumineth (I was really tempted to buy them too), and I hope that their rules are really fun to play. As a KO player, I hope that Sevireth doesn't become obnoxious for your fellow oponents (being able to teleport or move around the whole table and shoot whatever you want is not fun for oponents, believe me!).

Even if I never pull the trigger on Lumineth, as a graphic designer and illustrator, I will buy the Scinari Calligraver ASAP, and I will have an eye on the twins rules.

 

Edited March 23, 2021 by Beliman

[LuminethMage]

@Beliman Agreed the design of the Lumineth is quite smart, you have your core of new HE, and can stick to that if you want to, add various flavors via likely in the end 4 temples, or just stick to the weird stuff entirely. 

How would a different chartered company look like? Are there any hints in the lore? 

Scianri Calligrave is my personal favorite of the whole range - great background lore, I like the model and I love both calligraphy and magic : ) . The abilities also could be fun.

[Beliman]

1 hour ago, LuminethMage said:

How would a different chartered company look like? Are there any hints in the lore? 

Scianri Calligrave is my personal favorite of the whole range - great background lore, I like the model and I love both calligraphy and magic : ) . The abilities also could be fun.

The Scinari Calligrave is awesome!!! My first aelve that I will buy, and really proud (I know, heresy for a dwarf player).
About this Chartered Companies, they are companies (who thought that!) that manufacture new weapons, armors, ships, etc... and anything Dwarf-related (beers, new engines, etc...) you can even rent an army from them. We already have one mercenary company called Grundstock Company on the TT. 

Some of them are attached to some skyports, others are not. There are even some sky-ports (mainly Barak-Thryng) that banned some of them because they are a bit advanced for their own taste.

Spoiler

 

Edited March 23, 2021 by Beliman

[LuminethMage]

23 minutes ago, Beliman said:

The Scinari Calligrave is awesome!!! My first aelve that I will buy, and really proud (I know, heresy for a dwarf player).
About this Chartered Companies, they are companies (who thought that!) that manufacture new weapons, armors, ships, etc... and anything Dwarf-related (beers, new engines, etc...) you can even rent an army from them. We already have one mercenary company called Grundstock Company on the TT. 

Some of them are attached to some skyports, others are not. There are even some sky-ports (mainly Barak-Thryng) that banned some of them because they are a bit advanced for their own taste.

  Hide contents

 

I see, sounds great. You are right, those make for a nice base to built something special out of, for AoS and/or maybe also a cool Warcry warband. 

[Tiberius501]

Wrong thread. Lol

Edited March 23, 2021 by Tiberius501