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Golub87

Dealing with ranged enemies

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I think that this is going to be our main foil.

So, how do we live in our current shooting meta?
Tips, tricks, tactics, unexpected use of units... All is welcome.

I'll start by saying that it seems to me that the common Seeker unit will be a good addition in any list that hopes to go against shooting. Unit that fast will force the opponent to make a choice - shoot at them or shoot at a more valuable unit, loosing those crucial early shooting turns or risking that the seekers will then tie up their shooty units in melee.

It is by no means a perfect (or even all that good counter) but it seems like it could work.

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Not sure if I can help, but as a main (and only) KO player, there are some things that can help:

  1. Fast chaff: Having a bird, dog or something really fast that can charge in the first turn means that  an entire unit of ranged specialists will kill just 1 unit in their shooting phase (and remember that they only have 5 phases to shoot). Not every army can do that. but the few that can, are a pain in the ass (unless playing with skyvessels... but that's another point).
  2. High wounds units: 80% of ranged units in the game doesn't have  a high dmg output. Yes, they will snipe 5 wounds heroes, and there isn't a lot of interaction between your units and the attackers. But a 20-40 wounds unit will take the hit and move on unless the enemy focus fire with 500-1000 points.
  3. Cover, Obstacle and Garrison: I think that all AoS terrain are obstacles (or block LoS). Use  and abuse it!! That's a free +1save to your "...can run and shoot..." units. There are a lot of other terrain pieces that are garrisons (the whole destroyed warcry buildings for example) that can give you +1 save and -1 to be hit (and the whole blissbarb dudes have 18" range, that's some nice range).
  4. Gluttos: Gluttos is not a monster nor warmachine, so give him cover. Put him between an enemy and any fence, big rock or whatever and just touch the base of the terrain for that juicy  new 2+save that could even be rerolled with divine shield.
  5. Look Out Sir: And all combinations to stack -1 hit. Gluttos can give that -1 to hit if it's 12" near the unit (just "within") and has 18 wounds, so you can put him in all oficial garrisons (20+ wounds) to extend his range and give him 2+save and -1 (-2 with their aure) to be hit!!

I know that it's not easy to play but it helps A LOT for melee armies that have movility. Remember that you can leave garrison within 6" of the terrain  with all your models , that means that Gluttos could move a lot with that big base!

 

Edited by Beliman
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The Big Problem against Shooting is,

a) the range of threat means: Move (+run) or Port and then Shoot.

b) the Doppelturn: u are Death if a all out Shooting List gets the Doppelturn from 1 to 2

c) the lack of good and enough Terrain of Cover or just Overwehlming Cover

So what can we do:

to a) not much. U Can try too screen your vulnebael Units. U can try to usw Luzid Haraz

to b) okay here it is GW Turn to react. But let be honest to eliminate the doppelturn would be the easiest way too cool down the overgrown Shooting meta

to c) here the Tournement Orga can do a lot. here in Germany we are Working on this Thing. Stay Tunned.

so just my 2 cents

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5 hours ago, Beliman said:

Not sure if I can help, but as a main (and only) KO player, there are some things that can help:

  1. Fast chaff: Having a bird, dog or something really fast that can charge in the first turn means that  an entire unit of ranged specialists will kill just 1 unit in their shooting phase (and remember that they only have 5 phases to shoot). Not every army can do that. but the few that can, are a pain in the ass (unless playing with skyvessels... but that's another point).
  2. High wounds units: 80% of ranged units in the game doesn't have  a high dmg output. Yes, they will snipe 5 wounds heroes, and there isn't a lot of interaction between your units and the attackers. But a 20-40 wounds unit will take the hit and move on unless the enemy focus fire with 500-1000 points.
  3. Cover, Obstacle and Garrison: I think that all AoS terrain are obstacles (or block LoS). Use  and abuse it!! That's a free +1save to your "...can run and shoot..." units. There are a lot of other terrain pieces that are garrisons (the whole destroyed warcry buildings for example) that can give you +1 save and -1 to be hit (and the whole blissbarb dudes have 18" range, that's some nice range).
  4. Gluttos: Gluttos is not a monster nor warmachine, so give him cover. Put him between an enemy and any fence, big rock or whatever and just touch the base of the terrain for that juicy  new 2+save that could even be rerolled with divine shield.
  5. Look Out Sir: And all combinations to stack -1 hit. Gluttos can give that -1 to hit if it's 12" near the unit (just "within") and has 18 wounds, so you can put him in all oficial garrisons (20+ wounds) to extend his range and give him 2+save and -1 (-2 with their aure) to be hit!!

I know that it's not easy to play but it helps A LOT for melee armies that have movility. Remember that you can leave garrison within 6" of the terrain  with all your models , that means that Gluttos could move a lot with that big base!

 

Wow, all of this is actually super useful! Thank you.

How would you rate Seekers vs shooting? for 150 pts, you get 5 of them. That is 10W with 5+ save and mediocre attacks (11x 3+/4+/-1/1 and 10x 3+/4+/-/1) but they have speed. 14" move, 2d6 run (that can easily get a RR in T1) and can run and charge with charge RR. Sounds exactly like what you advocate in your point 1.

Points about terrain and Gluttos are also great.

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1 hour ago, Golub87 said:

How would you rate Seekers vs shooting? for 150 pts, you get 5 of them. That is 10W with 5+ save and mediocre attacks (11x 3+/4+/-1/1 and 10x 3+/4+/-/1) but they have speed. 14" move, 2d6 run (that can easily get a RR in T1) and can run and charge with charge RR. Sounds exactly like what you advocate in your point 1.

It's all about how do you use them more than how good they are.
Ex.: If they are  150pts but you charge a 450-500p ranged unit (ex.: 30 irondrakes), it's totally worth it!! With 150p, imho, it's a bit expensive, I think you will need to play really carefully to don't waste this unit. 

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17 hours ago, Golub87 said:

Wow, all of this is actually super useful! Thank you.

How would you rate Seekers vs shooting? for 150 pts, you get 5 of them. That is 10W with 5+ save and mediocre attacks (11x 3+/4+/-1/1 and 10x 3+/4+/-/1) but they have speed. 14" move, 2d6 run (that can easily get a RR in T1) and can run and charge with charge RR. Sounds exactly like what you advocate in your point 1.

Points about terrain and Gluttos are also great.

I think Seekers, whilst a little expensive, are great for tying up heavy-hitting shooters. They'll die, sure, but they'll hopefully keep some flak off your Keeper for one vital battle round whilst they do so. Their high bravery means they ain't running even if they lose 4 models, too. 

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