Cobra Kai (Zainthar Kai Sect) 3.0 Updated

[Chumphammer]

Thread for Army lists and ideas for running Cobra Kai (Zainthar Kai) 

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Edited May 16, 2022 by Chumphammer

[Lightbox]

So I'm considering for a simple fun 1k list of the following:

1x Melusai Ironscale - General
1x Slaughter Queen on Cauldron of Blood

10x Blood Sisters - battleline
5x Blood Stalkers - battleline
5x Blood Stalkers - battleline
5x Khinerae Lifetakers

So I know heartrenders might be better for just 5 but I do not have any currently, I am also missing any form of mage but I think at 1000 points I can potentially get away without one. I wanted to focus a bit more on the Scathborn to get the most out of the command ability, likely throwing my cauldron and the 10 sisters into something meaty to really get some pain going.

[Chumphammer]

2 hours ago, Lightbox said:

So I'm considering for a simple fun 1k list of the following:

1x Melusai Ironscale - General
1x Slaughter Queen on Cauldron of Blood

10x Blood Sisters - battleline
5x Blood Stalkers - battleline
5x Blood Stalkers - battleline
5x Khinerae Lifetakers

So I know heartrenders might be better for just 5 but I do not have any currently, I am also missing any form of mage but I think at 1000 points I can potentially get away without one. I wanted to focus a bit more on the Scathborn to get the most out of the command ability, likely throwing my cauldron and the 10 sisters into something meaty to really get some pain going.

For mages, you have a SQ so get at least 1 dispel which tbh most old 2k lists only had before Morathi-Khaine

With Changes in witchbrew I like Scrathborn now. Being to make your battalion immune to battleshock is very useful with our 2W snake ladies and a 4+/6++ can still be a pain for people kill a whole unit down. 

5 lifetakers can be fine. Best used as support hero harrasser and obj taker since if they have to wait to attack they are probably dead. 

Only real change I would, if any as I would probably play as it is, is make is switching the Ironscale for Medusa. I think being able to run and charge is good, but because it has to attack 1st to give them the +1A I think you could take too much damage back to your snakes before they can take advantage of that. Medusa general could still give them the command trait +1A, but also keep pace with the unit and have her shooting ability to help clear some things (10" 5+ MW is so good vs big blocks of things like Mortek Guard which could be tough to clear) and also gives you 2 more dispels and 1 cast, so maybe Mindrazor. Stick her in the middle of the snakes for protection.

If running Ironscale, i would maybe switch one unit of stalkers to sisters also. Means you could attack with 10 snakes 1st with Command +1 attack, then Ironscale, then use the ironscale buff on the unit of 5 

Tbh try the list as it is and see how it goes

[ObsidianCrane]

I suggest Bloodwrack Shrine + Slaughter Queen in 1k, the Shrine is a more durable general and the infantry SQ has the main things you run her for anyway. This also frees up points to give you options.

[freddypoo]

Good evening,  finishing up a 2k list and this is about what I have painted and ready so far.   Really trying to stay snakes as much as possible.

(spells/artefacts are kind of just place holders for now)

 

Allegiance: Daughters of Khaine
- Temple: Zainthar Kai
Mortal Realm: Ghur

Leaders
Bloodwrack Shrine (160)
- General
- Command Trait: Curse of the Bloody-Handed
- Artefact: Crystal Heart
- Lore of Shadows: The Withering
Melusai Ironscale (110)
- Artefact: Crimson Talisman
Morathi-Khaine (210)
- Lore of Shadows: Mindrazor
The Shadow Queen (390)

Battleline
10 x Blood Sisters (260)
10 x Blood Sisters (260)
5 x Blood Sisters (130)
10 x Blood Stalkers (280)

Total: 1800 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 107
 

 

 

Question being, should I just fill the remaining 200 points with a battalion (most likely vyperic guard)  and a CP, or should I squeeze in a Morgwaeth's blade coven, bloodwrack viper and a heart of fury?   What about some shadowstalkers?

 

Any and all input is greatly appreciated!   Thank you very much.

[Chumphammer]

On 3/1/2021 at 11:37 AM, freddypoo said:

Good evening,  finishing up a 2k list and this is about what I have painted and ready so far.   Really trying to stay snakes as much as possible.

(spells/artefacts are kind of just place holders for now)

 

Allegiance: Daughters of Khaine
- Temple: Zainthar Kai
Mortal Realm: Ghur

Leaders
Bloodwrack Shrine (160)
- General
- Command Trait: Curse of the Bloody-Handed
- Artefact: Crystal Heart
- Lore of Shadows: The Withering
Melusai Ironscale (110)
- Artefact: Crimson Talisman
Morathi-Khaine (210)
- Lore of Shadows: Mindrazor
The Shadow Queen (390)

Battleline
10 x Blood Sisters (260)
10 x Blood Sisters (260)
5 x Blood Sisters (130)
10 x Blood Stalkers (280)

Total: 1800 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 107
 

 

 

Question being, should I just fill the remaining 200 points with a battalion (most likely vyperic guard)  and a CP, or should I squeeze in a Morgwaeth's blade coven, bloodwrack viper and a heart of fury?   What about some shadowstalkers?

 

Any and all input is greatly appreciated!   Thank you very much.

I mean you could go Scathcoven for battleshock immunity

Really depends what  you want. I like shadowstalkers also as they can do a lot of work 
 

[Chumphammer]

Delete
 

 

Edited March 15, 2021 by Chumphammer

[Chumphammer]

Delete

 

Edited March 15, 2021 by Chumphammer

[Chumphammer]

Ok I deleted the other 2 as I just didnt think they had much punch to them.

I reworked it and feels better with more bodies and options



So 7 drops, 3 dispels, 1 cast

Shadowstalkers over Khinari and WE can be used as chaff with bucklers/Maytrs as well as if able, Alpha from sisters with Medusa. 

 

Edited March 15, 2021 by Chumphammer

[zombiepiratexxx]

Allegiance: Daughters of Khaine
- Temple: Zainthar Kai

Leaders
Morathi-Khaine (210)
- Lore of Shadows: Mindrazor
The Shadow Queen (390)
Bloodwrack Shrine (160)
- General
- Command Trait: Fearsome Presence
- Artefact: Crystal Heart
- Lore of Shadows: The Withering
Hag Queen (90)
- Artefact: Iron Circlet
- Prayer: Catechism of Murder
Slaughter Queen (100)
- Artefact: Crown of Woe
- Prayer: Sacrament of Blood

Battleline
5 x Blood Sisters (130)
5 x Blood Sisters (130)
10 x Blood Stalkers (280)

Units
5 x Khinerai Heartrenders (80)
5 x Khinerai Heartrenders (80)

Behemoths
Avatar of Khaine (130)

Battalions
Scathcoven (140)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Bloodwrack Viper (40)
Bladewind (40)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 100
 

Possibly swap out the two Endless Spells for the Invocation as the damage reduction will be good against all the Snake-ladies. Efficient use of Start Collecting models, not designed to be a super competitive melee blender army, but can add girls in later on and experiment with other Temples from there. 

[Underworld40k]

How are people finding Scathcoven to work in their lists? I have found it usually a solid pick in other temples but with the bravery boost I have been considering it less in Zaintahr Kai - drop count doesn't usually get low enough to reliably get 1st turn choice and MSU Stalkers at bravery 9 care very little and the bigger blobs of sisters either kill the target and take minimal casualties or on the reverse get turned into a paste so battle shock is not an issue to start with. 

That said i don't tend to play against to many shooting heavy opponents in my area so that is a big factor. 

[Chumphammer]

2 Drop Cobra Kai. Strike first...strike hard...no Mercy


Morathi used Hero shooting on stalkers to clear screen of main target in hero and shooting phase (or if no screen go for support heroes)

Morathi-Khaine and Bloodwrack Shrine fly up 9" of enemy with Mirror Dance

Shadow queen just flies up

Khinari drop down or fly up (depending deployment) and charge in to take unleash hell

Ironscale makes the sisters run 2D6 and charge with now 5 attacks each from Cobra Kai/Shadowqueen (hopefully with MR)

Bloodwrack Shrine, Shadow Queen and morathi-khaine charge in also.

Cogs to help everyone charge 

Turn 2 can either use Morathi-khaines ability on sisters or stalkers 

WE and Ironscale just tooter around and cap obj with stalkers support firing 

Game over turn 2. Time for drinks.

Cobra Kai tshirt and memes a plenty

Edited July 30, 2021 by Chumphammer

[Dusktiger]

in an attempt to decide what to expand my list with to get to 2000pts, and playing with LAB to see what model choices scored what, i think i've settled on this list, as it was the highest scoring and got all the models i wanted, bar the ironscale. units in red are the ones i already own:

Allegiance: Daughters of Khaine
- Grand Strategy:
- Triumphs:

Leaders
Morathi-Khaine (330)*
The Shadow Queen (330)*
Bloodwrack Shrine (190)*
- General
Hag Queen (105)*

Battleline
5 x Blood Sisters (140)*
10 x Blood Stalkers (340)*
- Reinforced x 1
20 x Sisters of Slaughter (270)*
- Barbed Whips and Sacrificial Knives
- Reinforced x 1

Units
5 x Khinerai Heartrenders (95)*

Behemoths
Avatar of Khaine (135)*

Endless Spells & Invocations
Heart of Fury (55)

Core Battalions
*Battle Regiment

Total: 1990 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 2 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 100
Drops: 1

 

[Chumphammer]

Cobra Kai 3.0 List. Trying this tonight on SagaofDice (should be out Wednesday)

Cobra Kai
Morathi-Khaine
Shadow queen 680
Hag Queen cauldron - general, Zealous Orator, Crown of Woe, Sacrament of blood 270
15 bloodsisters 420
10 Witch Aelves 115
10 Blood Stalkers 360
5 Heartrenders 95 
Heart of fury 45
Hunters

Edited May 16, 2022 by Chumphammer

[Rebluff]

Hag Cauldron 270 Zealous Orator, Crown, Blessing

Medusa 130 Mindrazor

IronScale 115 

Hag Queen 110 Curse, Blood Sigil, Sacrement

Neave Blacktalon 110 

10 Blood Stalkers 360 

15 Blood Sisters 420 

10 Blood Sisters 280 

HeartRenders 95

HeartRenders 95 

Warlord 

Hunters 

 

Neave is purely there to be a cheap, relatively sturdy teleporter with a ton of attacks. If I had 25 more points I'd bring Shadow Stalkers instead.

[Chumphammer]

After 1st game and playing 15 Bloodsisters I think its too much in one basket. Though Mine killed stuff (360pts) they got shot off mostly. All died in a turn 1 double to KB so couldn't even bring them back with the rally. 

 

Gonna try this

Cobra Kai

Morathi-Khaine
Shadow queen 680
Hag Queen cauldron - general, Zealous Orator, Crown of Woe, Sacrament of blood 270
10 Blood Sisters 280
10 Blood Sisters 280
10 Blood Stalkers 360
Heart of fury 45
Bloodwrack Viper 80
1995
Hunters

 

[Frowny]

15 hours ago, Rebluff said:

Neave is purely there to be a cheap, relatively sturdy teleporter with a ton of attacks. If I had 25 more points I'd bring Shadow Stalkers instead.

Why not drop neave and the 2x heartrending for 2x shadow stalkers? Way more bodies, more damage and they can be used as screens T1 to protect you from an alpha, which you currently lack.

[Chumphammer]

4 hours ago, Frowny said:

Why not drop neave and the 2x heartrending for 2x shadow stalkers? Way more bodies, more damage and they can be used as screens T1 to protect you from an alpha, which you currently lack.

Heartrenders is an easy battle tactic I guess. I am looking at squeezing them in my Haggnar list just for that as you can do that one turn and savage spearhead the next

[Rebluff]

5 hours ago, Frowny said:

Why not drop neave and the 2x heartrending for 2x shadow stalkers? Way more bodies, more damage and they can be used as screens T1 to protect you from an alpha, which you currently lack.

1. because 2x heartrenders are a free, guaranteed 2VP on whatever turn I don't think I'm going to score a different battle tactic, they can also be used as a decent screen if I'm forced to go first by dropping down and move blocking whatever I most don't want to hit my lines turn 1.

2. I would never bring two units of shadowstalkers, especially not in Zainthar Kai. At 150pts, one unit is decent(but unexceptional) as a charge eater/teleport harasser, but two units (especially if you're using them as chaff) is horrifically expensive. I mean, you could take 2 additional units of Blood Sisters for 20pts less. You lose the teleport but it's way more damage and functions far better as a screen because of their attacks on death.

Assuming the FAQ doesn't change Blessing of Khaine not allowing rerolls on the 5++, the list would look more like:

HaggCauldron Zealous Orator, Sacrement

Ironscale

Medusa Mindrazor

15 Blood Sisters

10 Blood Sisters

10 Blood Stalkers

5 Blood Sisters

Heartrenders

Heartrenders

Heartrenders

 

[Chumphammer]

Shadowstalkers have gone down a little in my books. losing the -1 to hit in combat means they are more fragile as a screen (though did gain +1AS)

Also at 150pts I would rather have 10 WE as just a screen now at 115pts. 

[Rebluff]

2 hours ago, Chumphammer said:

Shadowstalkers have gone down a little in my books. losing the -1 to hit in combat means they are more fragile as a screen (though did gain +1AS)

Also at 150pts I would rather have 10 WE as just a screen now at 115pts. 

Yep. If you can still reliably leverage the teleport you can potentially get 150pts of value out of them, but seeing any kind of meaningful return out of 300pts of them is unlikely. They, along with the slaughter queen, slaughter cauldron, sisters of slaughter, and lifetakers seem like the big misses as far as points rebalancing goes.

I'd actually really love it if they dropped lifetakers down to the 50-60pts they're realistically worth just so you can spend your last couple points on a screening unit with a decent footprint. 5 40mm bases at max coherency does block off movement in a line almost 18" long. Less for charges.

[Frowny]

What i like about shadow stalkers is they can do it all. They aren't as good a screen as witch elves, nor as good a deep strike as khinari, but they can do it both-eat a charge and then still teleport around later.

For some missions, being able to hold a backfield objective while simultaneously threatening theirs is also worth a lot- indeed it's worth as much as 2 units in a different list.

I think ppl are underestimating their durability. Trading -1 to hit for a 4+ save is equivalent against something that hits on a 3+ with no rend. All out attack on the attacker or defence (or mystic shield/blood shield) on the stalkers both push the balance toward the new warscroll. Even against rend 1, with blood shield, i think the new profile is sturdier and can be boosted further with all out defence if needed.

They are also way killer than khinari- they could reasonably take a backfield objective from 10 opponents. 5 Khinari would struggle.

They did go up in points though. I wish they were battletome in things besides kailborn. They really don't need it what with their other teleports but in a different sub faction they'd be great.

 

[Rebluff]

16 minutes ago, Frowny said:

What i like about shadow stalkers is they can do it all. They aren't as good a screen as witch elves, nor as good a deep strike as khinari, but they can do it both-eat a charge and then still teleport around later.

For some missions, being able to hold a backfield objective while simultaneously threatening theirs is also worth a lot- indeed it's worth as much as 2 units in a different list.

I think ppl are underestimating their durability. Trading -1 to hit for a 4+ save is equivalent against something that hits on a 3+ with no rend. All out attack on the attacker or defence (or mystic shield/blood shield) on the stalkers both push the balance toward the new warscroll. Even against rend 1, with blood shield, i think the new profile is sturdier and can be boosted further with all out defence if needed.

They are also way killer than khinari- they could reasonably take a backfield objective from 10 opponents. 5 Khinari would struggle.

They did go up in points though. I wish they were battletome in things besides kailborn. They really don't need it what with their other teleports but in a different sub faction they'd be great.

 

If Shadowstalkers can survive a charge while acting as a screen, you didn't actually need a screen.

[Chumphammer]

MSU Cobra Kai 

[Gokken]

I like Zenthar kai, because you see many non morathi lists here.

I was thinking something along the lines of 

 

Allegiance: Daughters of Khaine
- Temple: Zainthar Kai
- Grand Strategy:
- Triumphs:

Leaders
Bloodwrack Medusa (130)
- Artefact: Shadow Stone
- Lore of Shadows: Mindrazor
Hag Queen (110)
- Prayer: Crimson Rejuvenation
Hag Queen on Cauldron of Blood (270)
- General
- Command Trait: Zealous Orator
- Artefact: Crown of Woe
- Prayer: Sacrament of Blood
Bloodwrack Medusa (130)
- Lore of Shadows: Mindrazor
Battleline
10 x Blood Sisters (280)
- Reinforced x 1
10 x Blood Sisters (280)
- Reinforced x 1
5 x Blood Stalkers (180)
5 x Blood Stalkers (180)
10 x Witch Aelves (115)
- Pairs of Sacrificial Knives
Units
5 x Khinerai Heartrenders (95)
5 x Khinerai Heartrenders (95)

Endless Spells & Invocations
Heart of Fury (45)
Purple Sun of Shyish (70)

Core Battalions
*Warlord

Additional Enhancements
Artefact

Total: 1980 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 2 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 110
Drops: 11

Melusai kin stacks so potential snakes have 5+ ward in turn 1