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Hagg Nar Sect


Chumphammer
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Posted (edited)

So ran the above list at the weekend on 3 x 3.0 test games

talked over two opponents by top of turn 3 (tabled) and game 3 was a nail biter that I lost on turn 5 by 4vps vs Skaven.

Will do more of a break down on my blog as made 2 stupid errors on the last game. also seems he forgot to take damage from some sources which did have a bit impact also but whatever it was a learning day

The list worked well but a few things of note were:

15 block of snakes is a little overkill in some aspects and a big target

2 x 5 stalkers works ok but single block would be better for +1 to hit and unleash hell

slaughter queen didnt do much. She only got into orgy of slaughter once and curse was out of range or failed to cast 

Mindrazor is a ****** to cast. Maybe twice all day. I miss the old shadowstone lol

So changes I made were:

image.png.8138b31f4fb0de79bf14d2474a6ab090.png
Dropped sq for hq and sacrament. especially with the Haggnar ability of incease to blood rites and the new immune to BS/-1 rend on the last one. Getting all turn 3 on a unit could be good

dropped a unit of shadowstalkers. Though good, think having last changes is better

adding 5 Blood sisters and having 2 x 10. More flexibility, less of a single target. Means I can pull one back and Rally if needed while the other pushes. Better vs Unleash hell

put both stalkers into a unit of 10. Better for +1 to hit but moreso unleash hell support 



 

Edited by Chumphammer
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Great, I’m really happy to see some practical feedback on 3.0.

Interesting to see you switching to two units of ten sneks.  Given that everyone has the same limits on how many maxed out units they can bring, it makes sense that putting all our eggs in one basket will be overkill.

 

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1 hour ago, Ravenborn said:

Great, I’m really happy to see some practical feedback on 3.0.

Interesting to see you switching to two units of ten sneks.  Given that everyone has the same limits on how many maxed out units they can bring, it makes sense that putting all our eggs in one basket will be overkill.

 

Looking forward to trying it. 

Btw Medusa are a steal for 120 points. They were really versatile. Tripple stare on 40 Zombies pretty much popped the unit 

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Posted (edited)

a different list idea....The battle line are just there for screens and helping be on point. 

Avatars and cauldrons are main damage dealers

6 dispels and a selection of prayers for all my needs (with +1 to cast) inc 2 prayer heals and lifeswarm. With Heart of khaine/heals/Hagg Nar thats a lot of durability for the big stuff

Shadowstalkers cap points or hunt support heroes

No idea if it would work. I would deploy back as if they let me go 1st its buff central.

**Avatars can actually be in beast alpha-beast pack also for D6 extra move and I could put some of the BL in hunters of the hinterland since i dont care about drops 



image.png.4ce178087185ecd2bbd883cd1fc60238.png

Edited by Chumphammer
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20 hours ago, Chumphammer said:

different list idea...

I like this. Close to mine (with Morathi). It's reason I was asking about Alpha-Beast pack and Avatar rules :) (is avatar "animated" before round1 starts). This pushes both d6 forward if possible for start which gives you average 21" threat range (3+9+charge9) with them on t1.

Mine also demands you have 3x10 WE's though (or Khinerai instead of Shadowstalkers so one of WE's can be SoS).

Not sure on Blood Sigil - Blessing of Khaine. But I really want to keep cauldron alive as long as possible so that might be best.

Allegiance: Daughters of Khaine
- Temple: Hagg Nar


Leaders
Morathi-Khaine (330) in Warlord
- Lore of Shadows: Mindrazor
The Shadow Queen (330) in Warlord
Bloodwrack Medusa (120) in Warlord
- Artefact: The Ulfuri
- Lore of Shadows: Mirror Dance
Hag Queen on Cauldron of Blood (255) in Warlord
- General
- Command Trait: Devoted Disciples
- Artefact: Iron Circlet
- Prayer: Sacrament of Blood
Hag Queen (105) in Warlord
- Prayer: Crimson Rejuvenation
Hag Queen (105) in Warlord
- Artefact: Blood Sigil - Blessing of Khaine
- Universal Prayer Scripture: Heal

Battleline
10 x Witch Aelves (120) in Warlord
- Sacrificial Knives and Blade Bucklers
10 x Witch Aelves (120) in Warlord
- Sacrificial Knives and Blade Bucklers
10 x Witch Aelves (120) in Warlord
- Sacrificial Knives and Blade Bucklers
 
Units:
9x Shadowstalkers 120 in warlord
 
Behemots:
1x Avatar in Alpha-Beast Pack
1x Avatar in Alpha-Beast Pack

1995/2000
(Warscrol builder failed a bit*)
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Looks interesting to

Sigil can work too, as with the +1 from Avatar you have a good chance of getting it off

I think you can use the D6 move on avatars as its before the turn so the animate rules are not in effect

Playing two games with my list this weekend so will let you know how it goes. 1st VS Archaon STD and 2nd VS Skaven 

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So many avatars!  How are you managing to get them all moving and fighting? 

1 - Sacrament. 

2 - Avatar prayer

3 - ??

Or are you not too worried on turn 1. 

 

I’m not sure you can use the Alpha Beast Pack ability on them either.  Pre-game move is still a normal move.  Avatar can only move if Animated. 

I reckon you would be rolling your ward saves if you took pre-game damage…

 

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7 hours ago, Ben said:

So many avatars!  How are you managing to get them all moving and fighting? 

1 - Sacrament. 

2 - Avatar prayer

3 - ??

Or are you not too worried on turn 1. 

 

I’m not sure you can use the Alpha Beast Pack ability on them either.  Pre-game move is still a normal move.  Avatar can only move if Animated. 

I reckon you would be rolling your ward saves if you took pre-game damage…

 

Sacrament + Hagg nar means someone it Zealots rage turn 1.

Rules as written, zealots rage clearly says:

image.png.727d6250e761fa70fdd95cda60c14b1c.png
So all active turn 1 if you get sacrament up.

Alpha beast pack is being discussed atm, tbh I dont need it so it doesnt matter if I dont have it. 

Played a game today and list went really well. Not sure if i need the lifeswarm though so looking at other options 
 

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Ive been doing something similar to Chumps medusa list, but with priests.

Priests have a lot of options, I was thinking about giving the khainite pendant to the cauldren, so it can both use rune of khaine and another prayer.

I was also thinking about going heal+ crimson rejuvination and the heroic ability so the cauldren could heal 3d3.

Medusa gets the tome for mystic and mindrazor.

My plan was many big units and threats, with snakes, witches, stalkers, cauldrens and shrine being able to do some damage.

 

I won a few game and went draw a few times, It can both do and take a beating this list.

I am not the best of the players out there, and I can see why some people have some issues with playing DOK. But I will say playing 3e is a lot more fun than second, and you have more options outside Morathi and shooting snakes.

Khainites do well in big groups with unleash hell, total defense, witch brew and what not.

 

Allegiance: Daughters of Khaine
- Temple: Hagg Nar
- Grand Strategy: Pillars of Belief
- Triumphs:

Leaders
Bloodwrack Shrine (190) in Warlord
- General
- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
- Lore of Shadows: Mindrazor
Hag Queen on Cauldron of Blood (255) in Warlord
- Artefact: Khainite Pendant
- Prayer: Blessing of Khaine
Melusai Ironscale (115) in Warlord
- Artefact: The Ulfuri
Hag Queen (105) in Warlord
- Prayer: Crimson Rejuvenation
Hag Queen (105) in Warlord
- Prayer: Sacrament of Blood
Hag Queen (105) in Warlord
- Prayer: Catechism of Murder

Battleline
5 x Blood Stalkers (170) in Warlord
15 x Blood Sisters (420) in Warlord
- Reinforced x 2
20 x Witch Aelves (240) in Warlord
- Pairs of Sacrificial Knives
- Reinforced x 1

Units
18 x Khainite Shadowstalkers (240) in Warlord
- Reinforced x 1

Endless Spells & Invocations
Heart of Fury (55)

Core Battalions
Warlord
Warlord

Additional Enhancements
Artefact
Artefact

Total: 2000 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 4 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 125

 

 

Edited by Gokken
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Played 2 Versions of the above list at the weekend. 1st was as above, ended up a 5 round 16vs14 to Skaven, but I tabled his army bar 1 priest on 1W. All the obj had been burned and I could score any more tactics. Made a few errors as I didnt know a couple of things about skaven and should have been better with tactics so not the end of the world, was a great game

game 2 was a tweek with - 2 x 10 SOS, - Life swarm, + 2x10 WE, + Bloodwrack vyper

Wanted to test Vyper, didnt get it off all game lol. So a waste of points really. i did beat the STD player but killing his army by turn 3 bar Archaon who was held up buy a Avatar with all out defense. So tanky in heart of fury/Cauldron/General buff range vs Archaon and I kept healing it with my two heals. 

So relooking at the list, Its really fun to play and the avatars are boss, their overlapping shooting really helps also with the medusa. Changes are a tweek to which prayer is on each person, as a couple of times the foot hag had no option as nothing to heal and out of curse range. 

Two options I am looking at are:

1: Dropping an Avatar and Vyper for making my 2nd Cauldron a SQ on cauldron and then having a hydra.

2: Keep the Avatar, switch the HQ cauldron for SQ on cauldron, drop Vyper  and take a different endless spell as would have 55pts left (Cogs or Gnashing jaws)

 

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Posted (edited)

Tweeked the list a bit this morning 

 

It's between Shackles and life swarm. Shackles is harder to cast for me as I have no + to cast,  but useful in every turn really. Life swarm easier to cast but I have 2 heal prayers so might be redundant
 
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Edited by Chumphammer
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  • 4 weeks later...

So Came up with another tweek version of my avatar list. Dropped the 2nd Cauldron for a Shrine and 1 unit of shadowstalkers/witch aelves to make a unit of 10 stalkers to help support snipe. Also dropped Shackles for Cogs to give the coven 6 casts. Since I have 6 dispels i can always dispel it in enemy turn and move it to a better place

Went with 2nd spell choice over Iron circlet. If I dont get Sacrament off well its only turn 1 I dont get the avatars so not the end of the world and my prayers are on a 2+ (3 for universal) with avatars

image.png.ecd20b5bbd9c65e1e987eee572c7fa8b.png

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Posted (edited)

Played my 1st game (Well 2) with the above list vs the same KO list that beat my Morathi list the week before

game one I won at the top of turn 2, where I won the priority and he conceeded

we re-racked so he could try some different tactics against the list, and I won top of turn 3. 

Worked really well. Pic 1 is from 1st game, Others from game 2 

Heart of Fury was in play due to his Fyreslayer units that do D2 each 

Image

Image

 

 

Image

Edited by Chumphammer
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Got another game in last night vs Seraphon

Roughly he had 
Dracothians Tail
Slann Starmaster, general, Ancient knowledge, Godbeast pendant, stellar tempest
Skink priest: guidance
skink priestL Curse, acane tome
Celestant Prime
5 saurus guard
3 x 10 SKinks (spitters, bucklers)
10 Skinks (javlins)
3 terradons
5 cameleon skinks
2 x 2 Salamander packs
1 x 2 salamander pack
Warlord, hunter of the heartlands, vanguard


This was a pic near the end lol.

Basically made him go 1st that he didnt expect. Got some buffs up and cometted for 6 units! eek. did 1-2 wounds on all my heroes but he got 3 plus a smite on my HQ to put her to 1 wound.

Luckily, I managed to start healing her back up in my turn and I moved forwards, but with most stuff still out of range or not dropped then I just held.

He won the turn, and an obj dropped on the middle line to the left. 

This turn did not work out for him. He didnt get any spells or buffs of note off and he just dropped some units down to chaff up my army till he could get more stuff worth while down on turn 3, however, he didnt remember how much close range fire my army has

In my turn I cleared a lot of the chaff and got both avatars into the slanns hiding terrain piece. 

However, I failed all my charges on the left obj (which i had picked for my battle obj also) which meant I got no VPS that turn, so it was now 6-2.

Playing Soul Blight Grave lords tomorrow 

I then won the priority which sealed the game really. Both objectives dropped on the middle line so where I already had units. I cleared out all of his army bar the terradons and with the slaan dead (he failed his rebirth roll but still had 2 avatars to attack and 80% of the shrines to go) 

This meant no more reinforcements for him bar the celestant prime, but tbh he comes down, kills something then dies horribly. 
20210809_202501.jpg.1d4ba6667f32f6bf9fc4cb6d8976480b.jpg

 

 

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Got in another game last night (trying to get 2-3 a week until attack x in September as i really want a handle on 3.0)

Played against SoulBlight Gravelords on "First Blood"

I played very bubbled in the corner at 1st, as he had 3 mortis engines he was going to send at me and needed to be in my buffs.

I screwed up his 1st battle tactic, failing to get 3 units running within 3 of eachother (his last unit rolled a 1 and needed a 2)

I failed my 1st one also, as my Witch aelves failed to charge his direwolves that were on the bottom obj.

However I got the double turn 1-2 and then got turn 3 and it was over as I was now up 16-6 and he only had 1 hero and 6 Direwolves left

Bottom of 2 I lost my cauldron but meant top of 3 I got most things into his Vampire lord and took him down

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Is it just me or is the army way smaller than n 2.0? Mind, I haven’t played any real games on either version, but I seem to recall that body count was on the order of 50 - 90 for this army, but now it looks to be 30 - 50, with a chunk of it being in heroes. 
 

I don’t personally mind since I’ve not got that many models, and this new model count seems much more accessible, but I’m curious if that means @Chumphammer you just have 60 witch elves and 20 melusai sitting in the cabinet now. Is that... frustrating? I feel like I’d be annoyed if the army’s playing profile changed that much after spending a year painting it.

Edited by Ggom
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11 hours ago, Ggom said:

Is it just me or is the army way smaller than n 2.0? Mind, I haven’t played any real games on either version, but I seem to recall that body count was on the order of 50 - 90 for this army, but now it looks to be 30 - 50, with a chunk of it being in heroes. 
 

I don’t personally mind since I’ve not got that many models, and this new model count seems much more accessible, but I’m curious if that means @Chumphammer you just have 60 witch elves and 20 melusai sitting in the cabinet now. Is that... frustrating? I feel like I’d be annoyed if the army’s playing profile changed that much after spending a year painting it.

Hallo Ggom

Most armies are slightly smaller now. I think everyone lost discounts to hordes (30 WE was 300, not its 360. 30 SOS went 300 to 405)

Also armies are capped at 4 reinforcments, and most units unless battleline capped at 1.

With points also up around 10% per army, ended up being 1 - 2 units less per army and you dont see many hordes. 

Its a shame at time for models, yeah I have around 20 painted snakes, 20 mixed Khinari, 20 SoS and 50 WE sitting doing much (not including all the other bits like doomfirewarlocks etc etc)

But...means i have options to change up my list. DoK units are all pretty much useful, so we have a lot of flexibility in what we can play. Atm Stalkers and Morathi are popular with people but thats 1170 starting, so doest give you huge options. However, that list will be dead by next FAQ points change as Morathi will probably go up 100pts and Stalkers 20pts

 

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10 hours ago, Chumphammer said:

Hallo Ggom

Most armies are slightly smaller now. I think everyone lost discounts to hordes (30 WE was 300, not its 360. 30 SOS went 300 to 405)

Also armies are capped at 4 reinforcments, and most units unless battleline capped at 1.

With points also up around 10% per army, ended up being 1 - 2 units less per army and you dont see many hordes. 

Its a shame at time for models, yeah I have around 20 painted snakes, 20 mixed Khinari, 20 SoS and 50 WE sitting doing much (not including all the other bits like doomfirewarlocks etc etc)

But...means i have options to change up my list. DoK units are all pretty much useful, so we have a lot of flexibility in what we can play. Atm Stalkers and Morathi are popular with people but thats 1170 starting, so doest give you huge options. However, that list will be dead by next FAQ points change as Morathi will probably go up 100pts and Stalkers 20pts

 

Are such army composition shake-ups par for the course? Do you think they will increase army size again in a future edition for instance?

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On 8/13/2021 at 7:09 PM, Ggom said:

Are such army composition shake-ups par for the course? Do you think they will increase army size again in a future edition for instance?

Not sure atm, we saved points by not having battalions but some armies didnt use them. Then all points went up.

I dont think they will move to bigger games of 2500 or 3000pts as adds time to play and makes it tighter for events (some people struggle with time as it is)

GW also seem to always hate the destruction faction. They are one of the smallest and since its supposed to be a horde faction the points should be less or more options to actually horde. Atm the game is God hero plus elite support units. So we will see what the meta brings over the next few months. Its still to early to tell as only a few areas are starting tournaments but more are coming 

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On 8/13/2021 at 10:09 PM, Ggom said:

Are such army composition shake-ups par for the course? Do you think they will increase army size again in a future edition for instance?

Without a doubt. What happens is that overpriced units get price cuts to compete with other units andthen units that were somewhere in between are now at the bottom andthen they also get point cuts in an attempt to make them competitive again. Then eventually you have to rebalance the points of every faction at once or game sizes get out of hand. They claim that they want smaller armies to match the smaller board size but I think that's a smaller part of their reasoning in the long run. 

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(Posted in the other area by accident)

Played vs Mathias yesterday, my Skaventide Nemesis (he is a good player and Skaven are by Bane)

He ran:
Arch Warlock (General, Overseet of destruction) Amulet of Destiny, Ghostmist
Plague Priest on Plague Furnace (Curse)
Plague Priest (curse, Liber Bubonicus)
Verminlord Deceiver (Flaming Weapon)
2 x 20 Clanrats
40 Clanrats
2 x 20 Plague monks
3 x Ratling Gun
Warp Grinder

We are trying the Attack X scenarios and we played First Blood

He had 10 drops to my 12, so decided to go 1st and pushed up his rats to the objs and teleported via the warpgrinder 40 Clanrats to 9 of my front line and popped out his ratling guns while 20 plague monks popped out on my right flank. Raitling guns went all in on my blood stalkers (one at the time to bait out defense) and he killed half the unit. He got some good charges in and the plague monks took out my shadowstalkers (all out attack on 2+ to hit with 3 attacks each...) 
However, My sos were within 6 of his ratling guns and They piled in and took one out but stopped them being able to unleash hell in my turn

My turn saw me fail to rally any Stalkers but I got cogs off, so withered the plaguemonks and enfeebled the clanrat 40 block. Shooting saw the cauldron and 1 avater clear out the ratling guns and a medusa and other avatar take down 5 Plaguemonks. The 2nd Medusa and Shrine took down 18 CLanrats and then most my army charged in. Avatar vs Monks fluffed, should have all out attacked as I rolled 3 x2+ lol. Killed 3 still but with battle shock the plague monks went down to 4 models. The 40 clanrat block got wiped out and the witchaelves took out 7 of the clanrats to the left, but he held them with hold fast.

Over the next few turns he won priority every turn bar turn 5 which I made him go 1st anyway. The bloodshrine went down to the combined charge of plaguemonths and furnace. For 3 turns he rolled max MW damage for the furnace and it even knocked down my Cauldron to 1W. Couldnt roll a 6 to save myself lol. However I managed to push to with avatar on the right to clear that side, and cleared the middle and with the herotic healing I managed to get the Cauldron back to 5w Taken. 

 Game ended turn 5 19vs17. Another stupidly close game but this time I won. He had his Verminlord deceiver and the arch Warlock (on 1w) was hiding behind a cornered Gnawhole so I couldnt get to him 

I had an avatar, Cauldron and both Medusa

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  • 2 weeks later...

Played a solid game on Sunday vs Seraphon and the angry ginger

Was a super close game of Tectonic interference and came down to 24vs22 to Seraphon (there was a rules thing that came up after that cost me a medusa which shouldn't have happened, but that's learning and its my 2nd game vs Seraphon)

He ran:
image.png.af36433b8752031422a52537ec461cc3.png

Image

He got turn 1, and got a 6 for his Comet so all my heroes took a few wounds. 

His stuff pushed up to clip the objs and gotrek used a CP to run to the middle. He used his shooting to target my right avatar to knock it down to 2 wounds. 
 

In my turn my 1st spell was to miscast cogs but saved the wound. All other spells dispelled. I got a heal on the avatar to get it back into action and sacrament off to get them moving. Then catachism on the sos. 

I moved up to threaten the center but have some blocks vs Gotrek. I took out his center screens while send the shadowstalkers to cap the right flank. Also put some wounds on his banner guy. 

In my charge he shot off a medusa (rules mistake 1) and ran them back 4 (parting shot only works within 3" and on the unit that charged)

I cleared the right of the hero there but my sos fluffed vs the salamaders and lost over half back. (I think I rolled 1 6 on 20 attacks) 
Image


I won the double, and again rolled double 1 to get cogs off. Urgh. Didnt help he had +3 to dispel so again nothing cast.  I also rolled 2x1 for my prayers, so nothing went off really by  a heal.

I pushed around the flanks of Gotrek to not give him an easy charge on anything. He redeployed a few inches to get Gotrek a big safer (he needed a 9 at the time to get into much)

I finished off his banner guy and the salamanders finally, but in all the phase didnt really do much as my dice were just meh (yeah yeah excuses)

His turn he got some more spells off rolling 11's (with his + to cast i cant dispel) and cleared our my SQ and both medusa. with magic and shooting. Also putting 6W on the Shrine. I went to redeploy the WE to block off gotrek, but rolled the 1.  Gotrek then got an 11 to charge (urgh) into my Stalkers, who got 1 MW hit and not other hits....

Combat saw Gotrek kill the hag queen but not do great vs the Stalkers, so I actually managed to kill enough to get them out of combat if I rolled the turn, which I did and took it

The rest of the game was me trying to kill his stuff while holding points and avoiding Gotrek. Game ended up with him having Gotrek, 1 summoned salamaner, 1 Priest and 4 Chameleon skinks and me with an Avatar and Hag on Cauldron. . My avatar also failed a double 1 charge with a reroll to help clear skinks fasts at one point also, and the shadowstalkers failed a 4" charge into the chameleons.  

I let gotrek kill to much, which happens when plans fail due to dice. If he hadnt have killed the Medusa that ability, it would have been onto his block of 30 with its shooting attack (with other in support) and made a lot more of a difference. Oh well, was a good game and he is a good player so looking forward to playing again


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Edited by Chumphammer
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So, with the nerf to cogs then its not worth it in my list. Could have gone for an artifact but decided to drop the SQ (Never got Orgy of slaughter off) and tbh I think changing out the witch aelves and using the points from SQ/Cogs to take 10 Blood sisters gives me some more unit clout 

image.png.a8bf1aebd2987c6b9acd500b41b7ef36.png

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