Mawcrusher....not sure

[Icetea]

Hi everyone!

ive got a question. 
 

ive got 2 options I’m thinking of running and to me, I think option1  is the clear winner. 
 

option 1 

Mega boss and 6 gore gruntas

option 2

maw crusher 

 

I don’t know why I would ever chose a maw crusher over option 1. I love the model, but I would be giving up 22+ wounds and more fire power. The mega boss has similar abilities too. 
 

I love the Maw crusher, would love to hear your thoughts on this because at the moment, I’m struggling to include him in my line up. 
 

im using the Big Waaagh allegiance. 
I’ll be running this make up 

mega boss (general)

warchanter x2

Wardok 

Wargog Prophet

30x savage orruks 

15x ardboyz

6x gore gruntas

3x gore gruntas

5x arboyz

5x ardboyz

Ardfist battalion (2000 points)

 

Thanks a million!
 

[PlasticCraic]

In Big Waaagh I personally lean towards Option 1 (with Brutish Cunning as the CT).

The reasons you might go with Option 2 are:

• Access to Rend -2 and Mortal Wounds (essential if you are regularly facing elite armour saves)
• A fast Hero to get up the board (Gore Gruntas are not as fast as the Maw Krusha, and may well not be in range of a Hero to reroll charges)
• With a defensive artefact, Weird Un and Fixing Beat, a Hero that might stick around until Turn 2 or 3 against Hero sniping armies like KO

Those are the reasons that spring to mind.  Overall I guess I've voted with my feet because I run Option 1 myself, but it's not quite strictly better, even if it is probably better overall.

[Icetea]

Hey mate, this is a great response. I think your completely right. I hadn’t considered the rend! 
I guess high armour saves would be leaning more towards the maw crusher. Dudes with ethereal, I would possibly go more gore gruntas with mega boss. 
 

really appreciate your response!

[PlasticCraic]

2 hours ago, Icetea said:

really appreciate your response!

Always happy to help a fellow Megaboss!

[Kramer]

5 hours ago, Icetea said:

Hey mate, this is a great response. I think your completely right. I hadn’t considered the rend! 
I guess high armour saves would be leaning more towards the maw crusher. Dudes with ethereal, I would possibly go more gore gruntas with mega boss. 
 

really appreciate your response!

Can I add access to fly to the list of advantages of the mawcrusha

[Marcvs]

Don't forget also the interaction with battleplans: Mawcrusha also gets you a monster (for focal points) and a fighty/tough leader (for places of arcane power and, to a lesser extent, scorched earth)

[PlasticCraic]

Both good points! 

[Iradekhorne]

The maw crusha, with the mighty destroyers Command can fly 24" and chargue with +1.

Thats a real huge movement, also have the most dmg output dmg from all game, except vorgaloth (the khorne foegeworld dragon).

When my enemys play it to me, they usually built it with brutish kunnin or ironclad battle trait, metaleippa's claw and mean 'un mount trait.

You only need give to him the warchanter buff and thats all he need.

Really, he delete every unit he touch, even a mega gargant, the maw kill it on 1 combat phase (except warstromper tribe, they can reroll saves). And with ironclad is very durable, but even withouth it can be durabe bcause he win wounds when he kill something.

Is one of the best monsters, and the only one who killed me archaon in a single combat phase xD.

Edited January 17, 2021 by Iradekhorne

[Icetea]

@PlasticCraic just wanted to say a massive congratulations on your recent tournament!! Doing us proud!!

[PlasticCraic]

Thanks @Icetea!  Was a great weekend, a little bit sad that I came up short on Table 1 Round 5 but still a good effort. 

Best moment was against the netlisty DOK and their teleporting shooty snekks...I gave Pebbles double move and fly, gave him the +1 damage, Hero Phase moved him 20" with Mighty Destroyers, Movement Phase moved him another 20" then smacked the snakes right off the table 😍

(My Heroes were luckily around to do that because it was a diagonal Battleplan, so I could set  them up far enough back... I don't think we have much game in that matchup on a lot of missions unfortunately, so it was kinda right place at the right time!).

Got another event in a few weeks' time, 70 players this time at Vic GT, assuming it goes ahead (we've gone into a 5-day lockdown here in Victoria after a local outbreak, let's see how that goes).  Planning on running pure Ironjawz at that one:

Spoiler

Allegiance: Ironjawz
- Warclan: Ironsunz

Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)
- General
- Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa
- Command Trait: Right Fist of Dakkbad
- Artefact: Sunzblessed Armour
- Mount Trait: Weird 'Un
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Warbeat: Fixin' Beat
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Warbeat: Killa Beat
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)
- Artefact: Shamanic Skullcape
- Lore of the Weird: Da Great Big Green Hand of Gork

Battleline
6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (320)
- Pig-iron Choppas
3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (160)
- Pig-iron Choppas
10 x Orruk Brutes (260)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
10 x Orruk Ardboys (200)

Units
5 x Orruk Ardboys (100)

Battalions
Ironfist (160)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 138

Only thing that makes me slightly sad is being 2000 on the nose again which I hate doing, but it is what it is.  Always have really interesting games with this army, so I'm just hoping the event goes ahead!

[Icetea]

Lol Pebbles!  Not gonna lie, I had a massive smile on my face when I read what he did! 
who would’ve thought rocks could move so fast! 🤷‍♂️

I love the list that you ran with. I think it’s very clever and really fun. I’m keen to give it a go!
 

I’m stuck in Victoria too, it’s horrible being in lockdown again. Hopefully the tournament will still move forward. Looking forward to reading up on your blog again. The Ironjawz list your running is super similar to the ones I run with with my mates, however I never seem to do enough damage. 
I’m residing to the fact that gore gruntas need to stick with my army and not go charging alone. I don’t find they do enough damage on the charge and are then exposed....but again, probably me just not using them correctly. 
 

Thanks for the awesome reply. I’ll be searching the googles for news on how you go!

[PlasticCraic]

@Icetea Didn't know you were based over here, are you coming to Vic GT?  

5 hours ago, Icetea said:

I’m stuck in Victoria too, it’s horrible being in lockdown again. Hopefully the tournament will still move forward. Looking forward to reading up on your blog again. The Ironjawz list your running is super similar to the ones I run with with my mates, however I never seem to do enough damage. 
I’m residing to the fact that gore gruntas need to stick with my army and not go charging alone. I don’t find they do enough damage on the charge and are then exposed....but again, probably me just not using them correctly. 

I'm surprised that damage is what you're struggling with...speed and damage are generally the army's two strengths (with the asterisk that they aren't great at killing "unkillable" stuff, just things with regular / non-broken armour saves).

A couple of things I do with this list (and apologies if I'm preaching to the choir here):

- You can always just buff up the 3-block of pigs and send that in, if you're facing too many screens to be worth chucking in your big guns

- Similarly the 5-block of Ardboyz can often fit in a smaller gap and with +2 to charge natively (+3 in IJ) can bust up something minor with 12x damage 2 attacks

- So you can do a mini one-two punch of minimum size units with Warchanter buffs (Mighty D the pigs, teleport the Ardboyz) if you need to start removing screens, but don't want to overcommit

- You can also go full Alpha, by teleporting the Brutes or 10 Ardboyz, and Mighty D on both the Maw Krusha and 6 Pigs across the deck, if your opponent relies on getting buffs up.  I think this is our best shot vs Seraphon for example

- A big one to look out for is Damned Terrain.  If I can get Damned I'll take it on the Brutes, teleport them 9" away then move D6" close to the enemy at the end of the phase for a shorter charge (and reroll 1s to Hit)

- The other classic is the Hero Phase charge (Mighty D again), run away and retreat in the movement phase, then pile back into combat from 3.1" out in the combat phase (because you completed a charge earlier that turn).  Gets you motoring up the board, gets you attacking sequentially (outside of S&B) and gets around anti-charge tech like Fangs of Sotek shoot 'n' retreat BS

- Remind your opponent again and again and again that you are neg 1 to be hit.  They'll often forget when they switch from shooting to combat, or when they go from the top of Round 1 to the bottom of Round 1, so just drill it home and triple check

Generally I reserve the Alpha for special occasions but it does give you an "out" against some of the S-Tier armies that will otherwise just pick you apart.  Get up in their grill and get lucky on priority, and you have a fighting chance.  Even with neg 1 to hit I personally find survivability to be this army's biggest weakness, I would have thought the pigs with 8 damage 2 attacks each and decent core stats should be doing a bit of work?

[Icetea]

Yea it’s interesting. 
My mates that I play with use Nurgle, who soak up damage like no ones business and Idoneth Deepkin, who just have OP warscrolls. My other mate just announced that he’ll be using Fyreslayers...so 😔
The only time I’ve had success against Nurgle was when I did a combination of Bonesplitters and Ironjawz in my Big Waaagh and play the objective game. 

Idoneth Deepkin is also a new intro to the group and I played them only once and it was a crazy one sided game. I didn’t ask enough questions, charged in and low and behold, 2 up saves everywhere I look! Then I have 5 up save with their rend and GG goregruntas. 
 

I think you hit the nail on the head and this is where I need some of your wisdom. When playing against a resilient army, where they can soak up damage, I seem to struggle big time. Ironjawz is an elite army, so I don’t have  that many wounds on the table. I don’t do enough damage to them and they can just whittle me down.  
 

I play big waaagh as I feel the +1 to hit and wound is HUGE and the 6+ after save keeps me in the fight for longer. 
I LOVE Ironjawz, but I think I’m not playing them right... I assume to get into the fight ASAP with as many bodies, but against Fyreslayers, Nurgle and Idoneth - I’m at a loss for the strategy. 

[PlasticCraic]

Yeah I think everything you've listed there is valid...competitive armies, and hard matchups for pure IJ. 

I think it's fair to say that Big Waaagh has far fewer bad matchups, and that's why I take it to events where I'm aiming to do well.

One trick that might help you against Fyreslayers specifically is setting up a unit with good reach (Big Stabbas are ideal) back from your screens.  I wrote about it in this article from last year:

https://plasticcraic.blog/2020/02/27/summer-smash-tournament-review-big-wins-for-the-big-waaagh/

If you can get on an objective and they have to charge you, it's ideal, but even if not you can charge your screen right into them then just the edge with your hammer unit, so only one or two HGB can hit your hammer unit and everything else can only pile in towards your screening unit.

[Icetea]

Your blog is amazing. imma gonna be reading them all now. 
 

also gonna go buy pebbles...

[PlasticCraic]

Haha thanks dude, I'm not really writing much at the moment though (got a bit burnt out on it, and also on AOS). 

I'm playing a bit of MCP and writing some guest pieces on that for Goonhammer, but I'll fire up Plastic Craic again at some point.

[Icetea]

hi @PlasticCraic I just read the article where you talked about how far you could take the Rogue Idol. 
the 2+
5++
6+++ triple save

this isn’t available in pitched battles it?

[PlasticCraic]

No, but it was at the time. 

It was only in the most recent GH that they restricted you to only one aftersave.  Up until then, you could have a 5++ and 6++ on the RI, and a 6++ 6++ on Ardboyz with shields (and another one with Mystical terrain!).  They nerfed that and hiked the points up on both, for the classic double-kicking.

That article was written shortly after the book came out, in the roughly 8-month window until GH20 hit.  Wouldn't apply now.

[DirtyNurgle]

Hi @PlasticCraic, what are your thoughts on mates hunting down anonymous online handles, reviewing their post history and adjusting tactics / lists for upcoming battles based upon what they find?

What are Orruk's biggest weaknesses? Specifically against Nurgle, Deepkin, Nagash and Cities?

Also @Icetea, hi dave

 

Edited February 19, 2021 by DirtyNurgle

[Boggler]

Every time I make the Warboss the General and take the Right Fist of Dakkbad I wish I had made the Weirdnob the General and taken Dead Kunin instead. Then I get in matchups and have too many CP's and wish I had gone with Burstin with Power.

I guess I always feel that in hindsight I am using the wrong trait.

Does anyone else feel this way?

[PlasticCraic]

On 2/20/2021 at 1:33 PM, Boggler said:

Every time I make the Warboss the General and take the Right Fist of Dakkbad I wish I had made the Weirdnob the General and taken Dead Kunin instead. Then I get in matchups and have too many CP's and wish I had gone with Burstin with Power.

I guess I always feel that in hindsight I am using the wrong trait.

Does anyone else feel this way?

I personally go with the Megaboss as general so I have access to the Waaagh Command Ability.  I hadn't really looked at it from the point of view that it effectively can cost you 2 or 3 CPs though, as an opportunity cost from having Dead Kunnin instead of Right Fist, plus the one actual CP. 

I guess the other advantage with the MK is having your general up the board (with his 12" Inspiring Presence range) is valuable in its own right, so that's another reason why I would probably still lean that way, but it's an interesting question.