New to Lumineth and AoS

[Allonairre]

Hi there, just introducing myself and have a couple of questions. I am fairly new to AoS after a long break from the game saw the world remade on round bases.

Always played High Elves so figured would have a go at Lumineth and have played a couple of games so far, very heavy losses. I have a couple of questions as a result...

Speed, how do you all get around this? The fights have been fought in my half of the battle field and although these guys have killed plenty I don’t have the numbers to effectively hold multiple objectives and I am not making it to enemy objectives till turn 4. 
Passive army play, (I don’t know what to call this really) given that so much army revolves around being charged, how do you force your opponent into engaging you in fights that are clearly stacked in your favour and not just going round you till you have to charge?

The only other thing is remembering all the phases but I think I will get better at this as things go on. 

[LuminethMage]

1 hour ago, Allonairre said:

Hi there, just introducing myself and have a couple of questions. I am fairly new to AoS after a long break from the game saw the world remade on round bases.

Always played High Elves so figured would have a go at Lumineth and have played a couple of games so far, very heavy losses. I have a couple of questions as a result...

Speed, how do you all get around this? The fights have been fought in my half of the battle field and although these guys have killed plenty I don’t have the numbers to effectively hold multiple objectives and I am not making it to enemy objectives till turn 4. 
Passive army play, (I don’t know what to call this really) given that so much army revolves around being charged, how do you force your opponent into engaging you in fights that are clearly stacked in your favour and not just going round you till you have to charge?

The only other thing is remembering all the phases but I think I will get better at this as things go on. 

First of all welcome to TGA and the Lumineth : ). Several of us have been in the same place (playing HE, hiatus and now coming back to the game with the Lumineth). 

Could you let us know a few more details about your games? Were they in-person games, or TTS? Full 2,000 points? Your spec and what factions/specs you faced etc.? I think that would be helpful to give you a better reply. It's true that you often castle up as Lumineth, and hope that your opponent charges you where you want, and mobility can be a problem, but you have spell and archer damage to either force your opponent to do something, or to manipulate them in not getting everywhere where they want (such as the Warscroll spell from the Cathallar, the Zaitrec faction spell etc.). So would be good to get more details. 

[Allonairre]

So 2 games so far, both at 1500 points. One against a DoK army that is a fairly competitive list, the other vs a friendly dark elf cities army. My list is a bit of a mixed bag to see what I like using a lot of counts as. 

Hopefully the list has uploaded alright, used Azyr but will change to warscroll online thing. 

Thanks in advance
 

Lumineth%20%31%35%30%30%20Army.pdf

[LuminethMage]

Looks alright! 

So, one thing you could try is to change from Zaitrec to Syar. The two Aetherquartz (which you can also use to cast a second spell, so for example Power of Hysh and Speed of Light) might be more useful for you until you are more comfortable with the spells). 

Then, do you feel you have to take the first turn? If not, you could try to lose the Battalion and take the Twinstones and something like the Geminids for example (or another unit of Dawnriders, as you think you aren’t mobile enough. Wardens/Stoneguard /Sentinels could also make sense). In a 1,500 list the battalion might just be too pricey. Dawnriders could really pay for themselves against DoK or CoS for example, depending on your opponents list. It might also get you away from thinking you have to be charged all the time. With Dawnriders you can play offensively.

Your other units also don’t have to be played defensively. If you play against something like Cities, your Wardens , Stoneguard and Spirit should still do well, even if they charge, especially if you can snipe some of their support their support heroes. With Syar you could also use one of your Aetherquartzes for offense for a bit of an extra oomph on the charge. 

I would also lose living fissue for either Crippling Vertigo or Voice of the Mountain (or both if you stick with Zaitrec). If you opponent has a big block of Witch Aelves or something like that, you have the potential to make him stop doing much twice - with the Darkness Spell from your Cathallar and the one from your Stonemage. 

About getting your units where you need them: Speed of Light is crucial of course, using that efficiently is very important. As you are new to the game, you can also think about your deployment. Maybe you deployed a bit too defensively in your first games.

[RocketPropelledGrenade]

The advice already provided is pretty comprehensive, and I'm not yet super familiar with how Lumineth actually play on the table, so I don't have too much to add. I will say Dawnriders are very solid for their points cost and incredibly fast, so fitting in more might be good. If nothing else, they could buy time for your other units to catch up, but with Aetherquartz boosting their already respectable 4+ save, I expect they could be tanky too. Syar might be a good choice for that reason also.

Welcome to the game, and hope you enjoy your time playing!

[Allonairre]

Another game today, same list this time vs Sigmarites with a star dragon. The table was small though and it was easy to keep him off the table till it was too late to help. Scenario was take and hold and that was way easier for me to only have to worry about the 2 objectives. He really struggled though unfortunately and it felt like the sigmar troops were well out of their depth. 

Didn’t change my list at all, just working some things out, didn’t learn much though as was too one sided

[Allonairre]

Are you guys playing a socially distanced or online version of Age of Sigmar?

NVM I found the TTS thread. 

Edited January 11, 2021 by Allonairre

[LuminethMage]

Keep us up to date how it’s going. 

[Allonairre]

So played against slaanesh Demons, my regular opponent and I think he is pretty good at the game but he is a really friendly player and doesn’t write lists to exploit stuff. 

It was on a small board, which for 1k is fine. It was a really close game. In the end I won 25:18, it was 2018 Battle for the pass. Magic went really well for me and so did Eltharion, who my opponent underestimated in turn 1. 

I did a much better job of remembering rules this time and that the point is to claim objectives not kill stuff so walked out of a couple of combats I couldn’t win at and captured objectives instead. 
 

The unit of 20 did a great job, but basically got charged and died, (got caught out by wholly within for Cathallar abilities) the 9 shots were understandably meh, however they held home objective which mattered. Knights were solid, charged turn 1 by infantry and then walked out with 2 alive, Eltharion came across and finished the unit. 2 Knights ran around capturing objectives. 

Lumineth1000pts.pdf

[Pyrescribe]

Syar is great, but Zaitrec with the Twinstones is a nice way to ensure your spells can get off reliably--good to see you're sticking with that great nation. I like to use offensive spells like Darkness, Lambent Light or whatever to draw out dispel attempts before casting important spells like Speed of Hysh. By my reckoning, movement is the most reliable phase of the game, and since our main battleline unit isn't optimized for charging, we can depend on it more and capitalize on it. As we can use magic to augment our movement, I reason that there is utility in making that component of the strategy as reliable as possible--without taking Teclis, of course. The Lumineth aren't seen as a fast army, but we certainly have the tools to mitigate this and control the field nonetheless.

I like to equip my Sentinels with Speed of Hysh to help the two units of Wardens screening them advance quicker over time. While Speed is a "wholly within" spell,   I haven't really had trouble ensuring the target unit is eligible. I see in your most recent list you do the same.

If you're up against DoK and Cities, where there can be a lot of single wound models, Dawnriders are outstanding. Solar Flare on Dawnriders can be pretty fun if they can get behind the enemy line near their wizards. More generally, they make excellent scenario pieces: outside of getting the charge, they can inhibit enemy movement as a mobile speed bump (one which can annoyingly stay in place with Cathallar shenanigans), or help to contest objectives. I frequently use a unit of 5 in a daisy chain formation--forgoing the Shining Company benefit--to hindere enemy access to objectives early in the game.

[Allonairre]

Nobody replied in my other thread but do you agree about the reading of shining light that it is not optional, you are in it until your formation takes you out of it, can’t just end it to charge or increase pile-in.

Got another 1k game this weekend will let you know how it goes, think it’s against Death  

Hadn’t considered solar flare on dawn riders, their spell is tough, I use them for endless spells at start to get that off without disrupting my useful bubble and mortal wounds spells. After that I often get stuck with their casting... figure they can buff the shooting although it’s a bit of a waste with only 9 shots. 

[whispersofblood]

1 hour ago, Allonairre said:

Nobody replied in my other thread but do you agree about the reading of shining light that it is not optional, you are in it until your formation takes you out of it, can’t just end it to charge or increase pile-in.

Got another 1k game this weekend will let you know how it goes, think it’s against Death  

Hadn’t considered solar flare on dawn riders, their spell is tough, I use them for endless spells at start to get that off without disrupting my useful bubble and mortal wounds spells. After that I often get stuck with their casting... figure they can buff the shooting although it’s a bit of a waste with only 9 shots. 

I generally have two units of Dawnriders. The first cast Protection of Hysh, the second cast Twinstones first turn and has Solar Flare. But, Solar flare has a lot of utility including dispelling your own endless spells at the end of the phase and direct damage.

[LuminethMage]

1 hour ago, Allonairre said:

Nobody replied in my other thread but do you agree about the reading of shining light that it is not optional, you are in it until your formation takes you out of it, can’t just end it to charge or increase pile-in.

Got another 1k game this weekend will let you know how it goes, think it’s against Death  

Hadn’t considered solar flare on dawn riders, their spell is tough, I use them for endless spells at start to get that off without disrupting my useful bubble and mortal wounds spells. After that I often get stuck with their casting... figure they can buff the shooting although it’s a bit of a waste with only 9 shots. 

You can break formation of Shining Company in the movement phase before you want to charge or by taking away the correct models to break it, if you get hit first in combat, then you can pile in. 

[Siegfried VII]

26 minutes ago, LuminethMage said:

You can break formation of Shining Company in the movement phase before you want to charge or by taking away the correct models to break it, if you get hit first in combat, then you can pile in. 

That is a great observation mate! Haven't thought of that! That is a great way to mitigate at least one of the negative side-effects of Shining company! 🙂

[Allonairre]

Yeah I new you could break it but I just wanted to make sure that you couldn’t just say “not shining now” and be out of it. 

[Allonairre]

Game today was 1k, vs Undead play Total Commitment... think that was the one. Small board again and a narrow win 24-22 for Lumineth. Arkhan the Black meant he had magical supremacy, was at +4 to cast and dispel. So could only get through a spell or 2 if I managed to cast everything. 

Top performance was Eltharion in combat...next to no impact on game really other than killing pretty much everything... Dawnriders won the game though, failed to kill anything on T1 charge, died top of turn 3, but moved 28” to flip his objective T2 and he never made that deficit back up. 

wiped him out down to his heroes T3, then everything was back up T4 cos Total Eclipse failed all game. 

[Allonairre]

So played 2 more 1k games this weekend, list attached, 1 against a teleporting marauders army and the other against a DoK Snakes army. 

I did okay but made a hash of my deployment in game 1, I isolated my spears and a unit of 40 marauders got teleported into both my archers. He got first turn and his charge roll was a 13 so I don’t think I could have kept them alive. He was also super deep deployment so I couldn’t have shot him if I had turn 1. Think I could have won that game if I had played better. Still 40 marauders re-rolling hits and wounds for 3 phases, he gave me double turn, was nasty. I made several mistakes though so yeah that was on me. 

Snakes also got turn 1 my deployment was better, he turned up and shot my archers with Khinerai, doing 5 and 7 wounds, I failed my Cathallar 2+ thing and then rolled 6’s for both battle shocks... so no archers... That game went better but against his fully buffed combat unit of snakes there wasn’t much I could do. At the end he had 10 fighting snakes left, a hag, a Medusa and a Iron scale. I had my knights who could have killed his characters and played ring a ring a rosey with his snakes but not got enough to win game and probably died. 

learning points,

concentrate at deployment, particularly vs alpha strike lists. 

roll dice better

maybe take a battalion for less drops, first turn might. 

Cathallar + Stone mage are amazing, (game one the Cathallar locked the 40 block down with magic and the stonemage killed them all😁

Lumineth1000OMTS.pdf

[LuminethMage]

With 1,000 points, probably the Battalion isn’t worth it, but if you have the Twinstones you could also try Syar, if that makes it better for you. I like your list though, with Zaitrec, very magicky: ) 

[Allonairre]

I feel the same about the battalion at 1k, it doesn’t add enough. At 1500 up I think a battalion is definitely worth it for Zaitrec as it gives you a multi caster. You have a heap of spells and I know I was having to make difficult choices about what to cast with the Cathallar. 

I haven’t really considered Syar much but choosing what to use Etherquartz on is always tough. My spears would have survived to hit back with +2 to save. 

[Allonairre]

Been a while but played 1500 pts vs Slaanesh. Pretty friendly again. 
His list, mine is attached. 
Allegiance: Slaanesh
- Host: Godseekers Host
LEADERS
The Contorted Epitome (210)
- General
- Command Trait: Speed-chaser
- Artefact: Cameo of the Dark Prince - Lore of Slaanesh: Hysterical Frenzy
Infernal Enrapturess, Herald of Slaanesh (150) Viceleader, Herald of Slaanesh (130)
- Lore of Slaanesh: Born of Damnation
UNITS
20 x Daemonettes (220)
20 x Daemonettes (220)
6 x Fiends (360)
1 x Seeker Chariots (130)
ENDLESS SPELLS / TERRAIN / COMMAND POINTS Mesmerising Mirror (60)

He gave me first turn so I was able to take central objective with my 20 wardens and cast protection of Hysh on them and put behemoth in range of rear objective for 5 pts , my shooting tanked, 2 wounds to his herald. His fiendstar hit my spears and they both just sat there, Cathallar kept me up and he rolled low for his -6 battle shock test. The 20 spears just sat there for entire game after that, sentinels did eventually kill his Enrapturess. Cathallar got killed by mirror start of turn 2. Spirit of the mountain tanked 20 daemonettes suffer 0 wounds 💪, took 2 turns to kill them though  Dawnriders threw themselves into other unit turn 3 and killed half lost 1 wound back. 
 

Called it end of T3 I was up by 8 vps and he had lost all but summoned fiends, Contorted Epitome and his herald. I had lost Cathallar and 18 Wardens. 
 

He gave me T1 which was a mistake as I got objective with buffs and shining company which he then couldn’t shift. Had he taken centre I would have lost shining company charging to shift him, or had to use Mountain spirit to move him and gotten exposed. 
 

 Contorted Epitome is so hard for us to kill. 

I missed a lot of Mountain spirits abilities.

 

1500Lumineth.pdf

[Allonairre]

Played again vs undead

Allegiance: Legion of Grief
Mortal Realm: Shyish

Leaders
Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern (130)
- Spell: Shroud of Terror
Spirit Torment (120)
Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed (120)
- General
- Command Trait: Vassal of the Craven King
- Artefact: Gothizzari Mortuary Candle
Tomb Banshee (80)

Battleline
5 x Dire Wolves (70)
20 x Chainrasp Horde (160)

Units
5 x Hexwraiths (130)
4 x Myrmourn Banshees (70)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Extra Command Point (50)
Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (60)

Total: 990 / 1000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 64
 

that was his list which was pretty friendly again. I took Zaitrec with Stone Mage, Mountain Spirit, 20 Sentinels and 20 Wardens. 
 

Bit of an experiment with the big Sentinel block for me and trying to lower my drops. No Cathallar, on reflection this probably would have been better as Illiatha for extra bravery and the Item is better than Zaitrec item. 

We played Blades edge on a small board (48” square)

I took first turn, and did some damage that he healed from, was a bit disappointing. I should have just targeted his general but I was being friendly. He didn’t do anything in his turn but cast geminids, I lost a couple of sentinels and a warden, gave him the double turn to get control of geminids and hopefully have him charge my wardens.

Turn 2, magic was a non event, the banshee screamed and the stonemage tuned her out. He charged wardens with Chain rasps, Spirit Torment, Banshees and Dire Wolves and on the other side he charged Stonemage and Mountain spirit with knights of shrouds and Hex wraiths. He had to engage both or neither here. He really struggled vs mountain and only did 3 wounds but mountain only hit once and only put 4 wounds on Knight of Shrouds. On the other side Wardens flexed and killed 9 chainrasps and put 3 wounds on the Spirit Torment. I made a mistake here because I used my Aetherquartz on mountain, (he wasn’t going to die in 1 round), fortunately his chain rasps did terribly, killing 2 everything else did worse killing none. He flipped 2 of the objectives. 

In my turn we both sucked in the big combat with the Wardens. I killed 4 he killed 1 more, I used my Aetherquartz. I shot his Knight of Shrouds, and Spirit smashed the Hexwraiths. His banshee contested with my spirit so I only scored 1 point. 
 

Turn 3, He took first turn, I think he should probably have taken control of Geminids giving me double, there was very little I could do other than keep fighting combats but I would have gotten another magic phase so can understand. Geminids killed his spirit Torment, Wardens killed the banshees, he raised the hexwraiths again, in a line. I lost another Warden, I think. There were no heroes left in that combat so he lost his deathless minion save and that’s normally a tipping point. 
My turn I popped the middle hexwraith, and giggled a lot, charged mountain into the banshee and shot his general... very hard killing him, I killed the rest of the chain rasps and most of the dire wolves. Flipped all my home objectives back so was behind by 4. He had 2 dire wolves and 2 raised hexwraiths left alive and conceded. I had lost 3 wounds on mountain, 2 on Stonemage, 2 Sentinels and 5 wardens. Could just walk up the board to flip all 6 objectives in my turn and he couldn’t stop it. 
 

It felt closer than it reads, I didn’t feel secure in the Wardens combat with bravery 5 and no Cathallar it just takes 1 okay enemy turn and the unit is in trouble. He made a mistake not charging my sentinels with his direwolves and engaging in combat with the mountain spirit, had he not done that though he wouldn’t have flipped any objectives and perhaps would never have been in game. Both of us saved well and attacked poorly on dice rolls, my few mortal wounds were the difference there. 
 

I didn’t forget anything apart from getting over excited and using Aetherquartz early in turn 2. I even used free command abilities to refill 1s for mountain. 
 

Thanks for reading, photo from turn 2.