Lumineth Aesthetics

[LuminethMage]

3 hours ago, Greybeard86 said:

I havent heard / read that complain as much. I think the most common complain is that the helmets look silly, followed by stuff on the hammers and about poses (Teclis).  I have to say, the hammers do look like crocket mallets.

Not meant specifically against you, just generally speaking - the other type of war hammer they have though, is probably one of the closest weapons in AoS to a real-world war hammer/ pollaxe  (still way to big of course and missing the spike on top). 

 

About the hammer as such - in Warhammer Fantasy, the White Lions wielded big axes, also "traditionally" a dwarf weapon, but  the White Lions are often brought up as the gold standard for proper Warhammer elves now. Axes weren't normally a weapon you associated with elves either before White Lions - just GW made them so, because someone had the idea that White Lions were woodsmen and axes look cool. And now they have done the same with hammers. There is no real difference there. Hammers are also wielded by Stormcast, Chaos and other factions. It's one of the most basic weapons there is. The High Elves probably also had war hammers - Vaul being a thing - just by chance we didn't have a unit, because there wasn't a "Vaul's Anvilguard" or something like that. 

It's fine if people don't like them, because tastes are different, but I honestly don't get the all fuss about the hammers. If you go outside of Warhammer, Gondolin (can't get much more High Elfish than that) had a military order with hammers, you have High Elf knights and paladins with hammers and so on. I just don't think it's that extraordinary or weird. 

I feel the same about the helmets. If you think a Dragon Knight helmet, the Warcrown of Saphery, or the thing Tyrion has on his head are proper head-attire, but can't wrap your head around the Stoneguard, or Teclis new helmet, I really don't know. And don't get me wrong, I like those too and own all of those.  Seems to come down to disappointment that people didn't get exactly the thing they wanted and - I like chicken and bats, but not cows. Which again, as such is fine, I just don't get all the fuss about it or where suddenly practicability becomes a factor. 

Edited January 5, 2021 by LuminethMage

[Thiagoma]

21 minutes ago, LuminethMage said:

I feel the same about the helmets. If you think a Dragon Knight helmet, the Warcrown of Saphery, or the thing Tyrion has on his head are proper head-attire, but can't wrap your head around the Stoneguard, or Teclis new helmet, I really don't know.

I am not a designer or artist by any measure, but i belive the visual problem people have with the cow helmets is the "T" shape, and the fact that their weapon swing will probably go overhead, like a 2 handed hammer does in real life.

If you compare to the picture you showed, that hammer mid swing would hit his head (or come close to it) while the Dragon Blade headgear doesnt look like "in the way" of the elven spears or swords.

Something about the "T" shape makes the model have an overall unusual silhuette and maybe that is what gives the "there is something wrong" sensation on people.  It is not usual for a models head to be larger or the top than the bottom. Same happens with other Lumineth models like the Cathallar and the Stonemage.

[LuminethMage]

12 minutes ago, Thiagoma said:

I am not a designer or artist by any measure, but i belive the visual problem people have with the cow helmets is the "T" shape, and the fact that their weapon swing will probably go overhead, like a 2 handed hammer does in real life.

If you compare to the picture you showed, that hammer mid swing would hit his head (or come close to it) while the Dragon Blade headgear doesnt look like "in the way" of the elven spears or swords.

Something about the "T" shape makes the model have an overall unusual silhuette and maybe that is what gives the "there is something wrong" sensation on people.  It is not usual for a models head to be larger or the top than the bottom. Same happens with other Lumineth models like the Cathallar and the Stonemage.

I understand that. It still sounds to me a bit like an add hock rationalization because you don't like the whole cow concept. But I'm also not a designer, and you could be right that something is generally off with some of the models because of the T-shape and I just don't see/get it, because I lack the proper understanding.

The hammer swinging - I really don't see that as a problem at all within the context of AoS. These are warrior-monks who can control gravity and train with their weapons and armour for decades or even centuries. They'll get around a meager human problem like how to make a swing without hitting your helmet. That's part of the essence of elves for me - they do stuff which seems impractical or ridiculous for humans, because they can! Anyone can swing a hammer and kill someone with a bit of training, but try to do it with this! If you have 100s of years to master your art, merely doing it efficiently doesn't cut it. This is why things like the Japanese tea ceremony exist. The ruling class had a lot of free time on their hands, so you make up a whole lot of decorum and ritualize pouring and drinking a cup of tea. 

Look at the Dragon Knight helmet, it's almost as long as the body. No one in their right mind would ride with something like that. And have a gem in it the size of your head. And that's just comparing them to High Elves from the old setting, which wasn't as over the top as the new one is. There are a so many other things in AoS which wouldn't make any sense at all in terms of our world practicability. Again, to me it feels like a rather arbitrary applied rationalization, and the underlying reason being that you just don't like elves with cow helmets. I could make similar arguments for the Cathallar. 

But, I really hope we get additional units which look a bit more like the old HE for people who are disappointed by the new direction. Probably not the temple  units, but maybe the Blademasters and some of the Tyrionic forces will be like that. I understand the "I don't like it" part, I just have problems with it's "objectively bad", or doesn't make sense within the AoS setting parts. Although this has become much better over time, lately it's mostly people (including yourself) stating that they don't like them, which again as such is fine. 

[Saturmorn Carvilli]

Talking about races having 'their' weapons that other races don't use.  Could you imagine if that is how our world worked?  The First World sticking with semi-automatic weapons based on the M1 Garand or sub-machine guns during the Cold War calling the StG44 and the AK47 Second World weaponry and bolt action or breech loaders what the Third World use?  I don't know.  Seems limiting and kinda bizarre to me.  Sometimes I don't understand other GW gaming fans.  Like 40k Eldar players getting upset that Primaris space marines are 'stealing' their unit composition only have one type of weapon for the whole unit like that is all that unique.

I like the mallets on Lumineth.  They are no less silly than the cinder block sized chunk of stone or steel that any other GW hammer head seems to be.  The mallets still have an elven, and more importantly, aleven aesthetic to them.  To me, calling hands-off on a class of weapon based on race seems to just further insultingly charactercher them making them more 2 dimensional and unrealistic.  Which I think AoS should try to avoid as the mythic high fantasy of the setting is already hard to comprehend at times.

 

As a bit of a tangent, one of the things I like best about AoS is that it has the opportunity to be a far more cosmopolitan setting than more than 90% of other fantasy settings.  Warcry cultists aren't just a human cult, duardin cult, aelf cult or gor cult, but they are often a composite of them demonstrating that the tribes they come from aren't like most fantasy settings of the elven nation or the dwarven nation.  Just tribes of mortals (or humans and demi-humans as I know 'em from D&D) just trying to survive day-to-day in a Chaos control realm.  The aspect I enjoy most about Cities of Sigmar is they are also very cosmopolitan.  Sure it is by convenience of merging a bunch of WHFB remnants, well worth expanding upon.  I think it would be nice if we moved away from basing things on the races within the setting and more other commonalities to make factions.

[Thiagoma]

7 minutes ago, LuminethMage said:

Although this has become much better over time, lately it's mostly people (including yourself) stating that they don't like them, which again as such is fine. 

On the other hand, i feel a lot of backlash when i post, even when i try to be objective as possible.

You like the models, that is ok. I dont.

The thread ask about Lumineth aesthetic. I posted what i think about it without insulting, pointing fingers or blaming or shaming anyone . No more, no less. Again i tryed to be objective about what i liked and what i disliked, just answering the proposed idea of the topic.

 

In my post i avoided talking about the whole sucession issue, mentioning only the detach from the visual identity of former High Elves. It was pretty  much about Lumineth and Lumineth alone.

 

Now YOU proposed a theory and i tryed to answer as respectfully and objectively as i could, and you once again come to bash me as if i was spilling rage on the forum, what if you are fair, i was not.

The whole T versus V and ^ design was covered by someone with some design experience in the past (by the time of the release) and i tought it might give an insight about why and how people feel about it.  That is all i mentinoned and i didnt disrespect you or was agressive toward your comment or ideas.

 

I will avoid interactions with you for now on since it mostly result in flames and i have no interest in that.

[Thiagoma]

4 minutes ago, Saturmorn Carvilli said:

Talking about races having 'their' weapons that other races don't use.  Could you imagine if that is how our world worked?  The First World sticking with semi-automatic weapons based on the M1 Garand or sub-machine guns during the Cold War calling the StG44 and the AK47 Second World weaponry and bolt action or breech loaders what the Third World use?  I don't know.  Seems limiting and kinda bizarre to me.  Sometimes I don't understand other GW gaming fans.  Like 40k Eldar players getting upset that Primaris space marines are 'stealing' their unit composition only have one type of weapon for the whole unit like that is all that unique.

I like the mallets on Lumineth.  They are no less silly than the cinder block sized chunk of stone or steel that any other GW hammer head seems to be.  The mallets still have an elven, and more importantly, aleven aesthetic to them.  To me, calling hands-off on a class of weapon based on race seems to just further insultingly charactercher them making them more 2 dimensional and unrealistic.  Which I think AoS should try to avoid as the mythic high fantasy of the setting is already hard to comprehend at times.

 

As a bit of a tangent, one of the things I like best about AoS is that it has the opportunity to be a far more cosmopolitan setting than more than 90% of other fantasy settings.  Warcry cultists aren't just a human cult, duardin cult, aelf cult or gor cult, but they are often a composite of them demonstrating that the tribes they come from aren't like most fantasy settings of the elven nation or the dwarven nation.  Just tribes of mortals (or humans and demi-humans as I know 'em from D&D) just trying to survive day-to-day in a Chaos control realm.  The aspect I enjoy most about Cities of Sigmar is they are also very cosmopolitan.  Sure it is by convenience of merging a bunch of WHFB remnants, well worth expanding upon.  I think it would be nice if we moved away from basing things on the races within the setting and more other commonalities to make factions.

It is kinda weired that among all the things i dont like about Alarith, the hammers do not bother me at all. While i would rather have Swordmasters remade (because i love both their lore AND their looks), i dont see a problem with elves and hammers.  Given their lore and lifespan i think elves can be proficient with pretty much any weapon, specially with the Monk like background of the Alarith.

[Saturmorn Carvilli]

3 minutes ago, Thiagoma said:

It is kinda weired that among all the things i dont like about Alarith, the hammers do not bother me at all. While i would rather have Swordmasters remade (because i love both their lore AND their looks), i dont see a problem with elves and hammers.  Given their lore and lifespan i think elves can be proficient with pretty much any weapon, specially with the Monk like background of the Alarith.

It just makes sense that Mountain aspects would use a hammer weapon to me.  I'm a geologist, and I use a hammer more than I use a computer at work.  That last sentence is probably all one needs to know why I like the Alarith so much.

As for sword wielding Lumineth, I don't think the Underworlds two-handed swordsman is some one-off.  I would imagine that is a preview of a Lumineth unit to come at some point.  So long as you like the style of that model, I think when the unit it is based on you'll be fine.

[Thiagoma]

2 minutes ago, Saturmorn Carvilli said:

It just makes sense that Mountain aspects would use a hammer weapon to me.  I'm a geologist, and I use a hammer more than I use a computer at work.  That last sentence is probably all one needs to know why I like the Alarith so much.

As for sword wielding Lumineth, I don't think the Underworlds two-handed swordsman is some one-off.  I would imagine that is a preview of a Lumineth unit to come at some point.  So long as you like the style of that model, I think when the unit it is based on you'll be fine.

Geology bro here! (But i never graduated)

Those little hammers are pretty awesome tools. 

I dont think the sword lady is a one off too, but with GW and Underworlds is alway hard to be sure.  It would be cool to see it on the next release but i am not sure. I dont think they fit the Wind temple, but maybe they could be a Vanari unit? 

[LuminethMage]

1 hour ago, Thiagoma said:

On the other hand, i feel a lot of backlash when i post, even when i try to be objective as possible.

You like the models, that is ok. I dont.

The thread ask about Lumineth aesthetic. I posted what i think about it without insulting, pointing fingers or blaming or shaming anyone . No more, no less. Again i tryed to be objective about what i liked and what i disliked, just answering the proposed idea of the topic.

 

In my post i avoided talking about the whole sucession issue, mentioning only the detach from the visual identity of former High Elves. It was pretty  much about Lumineth and Lumineth alone.

 

Now YOU proposed a theory and i tryed to answer as respectfully and objectively as i could, and you once again come to bash me as if i was spilling rage on the forum, what if you are fair, i was not.

The whole T versus V and ^ design was covered by someone with some design experience in the past (by the time of the release) and i tought it might give an insight about why and how people feel about it.  That is all i mentinoned and i didnt disrespect you or was agressive toward your comment or ideas.

 

I will avoid interactions with you for now on since it mostly result in flames and i have no interest in that.

I didn't want to bash you. I'm sorry, if that came over like that. I also thought your reply was respectful and had no issues with it at all, or thought your post above  was spilling rage on the forum, or anything like that at all. 

That was what happened - generally - right after the release (and I found that understandable because of the initial disappointment after waiting for a long time for the new High Elves), and a while afterwards, but now I think it pretty much has settled down. 

I honestly think that you or the person who posted about the T could be right, and I just don't see it because I lack the understanding. It's a fair point! But, because of the initial reaction by many to the Alarith, it still feels that things like that are often used as a rationalization for something someone just doesn't like to make it sound more grounded. 

Anyway, from my side there is no bad feelings at all, and apologies for writing it in a way that bashed you. 

Edited January 5, 2021 by LuminethMage

[Baron Klatz]

2 hours ago, Thiagoma said:

I am not a designer or artist by any measure, but i belive the visual problem people have with the cow helmets is the "T" shape, and the fact that their weapon swing will probably go overhead, like a 2 handed hammer does in real life.

I know you said you're not interested lorewise for their design but I do think that's worth crediting here. They get their strength from the mountain so don't use overhead blows but precise sideways ones which with their super-strength is enough to crush daemon prince armor.

Second is when they do that "become the mountain" stance it's a forcefield over their whole body (and helm). So the tall T becomes a literal mountain wall that hinders enemy overhead blows trying to break it.

Reading more into them makes you apply "real life" less & less to the crazy things they do. Which I find very fitting as each new iteration of aelves in the mortal realms show how eldritch they are as creatures of gods & realms rather than just mortals.

"So strong is the connection between Stoneguard and patron is that the average member of the caste can stand immobile for years or even decades on end without food or drink, drawing nourishment from the mountain itself. "

"When thought to be ready, the supplicant is taken to the peaks of the mountain and buried alive. Should the supplicant find themself blessed, they will find themself able to breathe through the cracks. After a full week, they emerge as a true Stoneguard. "

3 hours ago, Aelfric said:

Teclis obviously decided He wanted "Bigger Aelves".

I wouldn't be surprised if it's because he had to recreate their bodies with so much light magic to purge the Slaanesh taint that they got "overstuffed". Lumineth are already so infused with aetherquartz that their bodies naturally produce light in the dark. That sounds like the bare minimum needed after 10,000+ years inside a Dark God.

[Thiagoma]

44 minutes ago, LuminethMage said:

Anyway, from my side there is no bad feelings at all, and apologies for writing it in a way that bashed you. 

In the end all i want is a new wave of models that i enjoy so i can share your enthusiasm for the line. 

Maybe it will come soon, who knows?

[zilberfrid]

4 hours ago, Kadeton said:

I like the Lumineth aesthetic overall.

My main issue with them is that, for some reason, GW decided to make them all hulking aelven giants. The whole range is scaled about 10-20% too large - they tower over the "classic" aelves from the Cities of Sigmar, and are closer in stature to Stormcast. It's really off-putting.

Similar to the rapid growth of humans. And dwarves. And goblins.

Dwarves went from 17mm eye height (metal dwarves) to 24 (Kharadron and Gotrek), humans from 27 (90's plastic bowmen) to 32 (Excelsior Warpriest, Godsworn hunt, Eyes of the nine though that was hard to measure) as well as increasing in bulk quite a bit.

All new models have increased in size. Which makes them unattractive to mix with 28mm models or even their older selves. Even Greatswords and Guards look off with 28 mm, newer ones are just nonsense.

It's a deliberate choice, not just to add more detail, but also to have people replace their old models with new and double priced models, and other brands being less compatible.

With a side of changing my purchases to different companies that are more consistent in scaling.

Edited January 5, 2021 by zilberfrid

[LuminethMage]

13 minutes ago, Thiagoma said:

In the end all i want is a new wave of models that i enjoy so i can share your enthusiasm for the line. 

Maybe it will come soon, who knows?

I'm 100% there with you : ). Fingers crossed. I really hope they bring out more models that people who don't like half of the current ones can enjoy. 

If we get Blademasters they could be like that. The one from the Underworlds Warband looked pretty ok, but we don't know how their helmets look like yet of course. Or the rider, who might have nothing to do with the Wind Temple, and not have a camel/llama mount ... . The sun symbolic could hint at a more Vanari/Tyrionic model. 

Let's see. 

[King Under the Mountain]

To start with I traditionally have no interest in Elf factions other than seeing them across the battlefield waiting to receive a giant helping of Dwarven pain. 

 

BUT. I was happy to see a more "traditional" High Elf faction (with a AoS twist) and it gave me hope that Grungi would someday lead a more traditional Dwarf faction as well.

 

ALSO.  I am a big fan of the Eastern Asian aesthetic that they have come up with and I might actually consider collecting them if they embrace it more in the future (Looking at you flying cloud teaser, give me that Sun Wukong inspired mini).

 

OVERALL.  I put down 50/50 in the poll because while some of the models do nothing for me (Teclis, Hammer guys, big foot mage), I also think Eltharion was the coolest minis from last year and giant Mountain Cow also looks freaking awesome.

Edited January 5, 2021 by King Under the Mountain

[Bosskelot]

As I said in my original post, the issue people have is not with Elves having horned helmets or using a heavy weapon like a Hammer, I even brought up White Lions and many 40k Aspect Warriors as instances of GW not going for the traditional idea of Elven aesthetic and it working really well.

Idea and execution are too very different things. You can have the best, most unique idea in the world and it can fall apart in execution. That is the issue many have with parts of the Lumineth range.

[Greybeard86]

I have no problem with elves using hammers, I just don’t like their design. I don’t like the helmets nor the crocket mallets. I was just replying to someone who said that the most common complaint was that they are not elvish. 
 

Now, aesthetics and design follow some “rules” (certain proportionality and other things that I am not an expert in), but there is also a big element of preference. I won’t be claiming that lumineths are objectively ugly, but there is something in the design that is quite polarizing, more so than other ranges, this we have to acknowledge. Personally, I never liked the HE design of old either, so there is that. Not because it is impractical; heck I liked chaos dwarves. 
 

In general, I feel that AoS is a tad over designed. It takes a lot of inspiration from WHFB themes and it turns it to 11, fills it with tiny breakable parts, and in some cases it hits the mark while in others just feels too much for my taste. I sort of like the cow mountains, But I find the mallet elves goofy. I also like the new gitz, even though they are detail heavy too; so it is not that I blindly hate AoS sculpts. 

I am a tad sad that they sort of abandoned the more normie type of models that we had in old fantasy. I think they provided an awesome contrast to the more outlandish ones, as well as ranges for those who didn’t want HE type of impractical helmets. I hope they give us some of that feeling back maintaining support for the free guild range, and the upcoming Valhalla dwarves. I don’t resent GW catering to people with tastes other than mine, but of course I’d also like to have some sculpts more along the “traditional” styles of fantasy.
 

 

[LordAlpharius]

I really do not see any evidence  of the Lumineth being more polarizing than fyreslayers, ossiarch bonereapers, stormcast eternals etc, and  should avoid making inferences about the general sentiment towards certain ranges based on online discussions involving a few dozen people at best (the only real indicator for the popularity of range is sales numbers which we dont have). 

[elfhead]

I've been pondering on this subject for a couple af days. 

When AoS hit I was disappointed in the way the 'old world' was discarded. but in time I started to like AoS. I thought to myself, "when they do an AoS version of high elves I'll go all in". So when Lumineth were announced I was really excited. I think GW did just that, 'Aosify' the high elves. The lore suggests there was a great civil war, as if these Lumineth have a similar history like the high elves but moved on beyond the dark/high elf divide. The elements and eastern enlightenment idea is also nice and I think some of the models are spectacular. the dawnriders in particular. 

I bought a box of Alarith, but I soon realised they just didn't feel like high elves to me. So I decided they are not for me just now. Because I don't want to spend time and money on something that doesn't excite me enough. instead I'll keep my focus on painting models I do love and on my Slaanesh projects, which are a real Aos project to me.

However, I feel funny about this thread. I gotta say it is starting to annoy me how sometimes people who like a certain army have to defend themselves for liking it.  As if some armies can be objectively 'worse' than others, and you have to explain yourself for liking it. 

I've noticed this with several releases now. A new model or range of models gets released, and people start to discuss them. But very soon it turns into complaining about why another another army didn't get these kind of models. Or why does this army get new models already, when another army is clearly in need of models a lot more.  for example, after the new Slaanesh models were revealed, some Tzeentch players started to complain they don't have any 'god specific Chosen tier warriors'.  

To me, critique on models too often turns into an attack on those who are happy with the release or like the models. In the end, we don't have any influence on what GW releases, so what is the point in being angry with the releases. 

[Neverchosen]

27 minutes ago, LordAlpharius said:

I really do not see any evidence  of the Lumineth being more polarizing than fyreslayers, ossiarch bonereapers, stormcast eternals etc, and  should avoid making inferences about the general sentiment towards certain ranges based on online discussions involving a few dozen people at best (the only real indicator for the popularity of range is sales numbers which we dont have). 

I mean even the poll here indicates that approximately half the audience enjoys the army overall, and then most of the others like much of the army but not all of it. I feel that i could make that argument for pretty much every line in the game, there are certain models I like and others that I don't.

[Greybeard86]

1 hour ago, LordAlpharius said:

I really do not see any evidence  of the Lumineth being more polarizing than fyreslayers, ossiarch bonereapers, stormcast eternals etc, and  should avoid making inferences about the general sentiment towards certain ranges based on online discussions involving a few dozen people at best (the only real indicator for the popularity of range is sales numbers which we dont have). 

Surely we all know that something can sell well or be popular and still polarizing. So no, sales wouldn't be the "real indicator" of whether they are polarizing or not. The only way of knowing that is to poll the community ( 😅 ).

I base my opinion on what I have seen across my usual hobby platforms. They tend to be more on the side of painting and collecting, which is my focus. To the point of typically very tame portals joining the fray. So yeah, I do think they are polarizing.

I feel we need to make an effort to distinguish a tad more the difference between criticism of something we like and ourselves. Some people like lumineth, others don't. As long as the opinions are expressed in a polite manner, I don't see the need to "complain about the complainers".

I am pretty sure GW runs its own focus groups, but probably they also keep an eye out for internet chatter.

[LordAlpharius]

11 minutes ago, Greybeard86 said:

Surely we all know that something can sell well or be popular and still polarizing. So no, sales wouldn't be the "real indicator" of whether they are polarizing or not. The only way of knowing that is to poll the community ( 😅 ).

I base my opinion on what I have seen across my usual hobby platforms. They tend to be more on the side of painting and collecting, which is my focus. To the point of typically very tame portals joining the fray. So yeah, I do think they are polarizing.

I feel we need to make an effort to distinguish a tad more the difference between criticism of something we like and ourselves. Some people like lumineth, others don't. As long as the opinions are expressed in a polite manner, I don't see the need to "complain about the complainers".

I am pretty sure GW runs its own focus groups, but probably they also keep an eye out for internet chatter.

Personal observations =/= evidence of polarization, so you should probably avoid asserting that we have to "acknowledge" it.

Edited January 5, 2021 by LordAlpharius

[Greybeard86]

It is evidence alright, you just don't think it is enough.

EDIT: All good!

Edited January 5, 2021 by Greybeard86

[LordAlpharius]

22 minutes ago, Greybeard86 said:

It is evidence alright, you just don't think it is enough. But maybe we can remain civil? The whole "hate to break it to you buddy" doesn't need to be there. Maybe a mod that erase this one too when they purge the thread.

Alright, it is technically  evidence, but very weak evidence unless backed up by data. 

Edited January 5, 2021 by LordAlpharius
grammar

[zilberfrid]

1 hour ago, elfhead said:

I've been pondering on this subject for a couple af days. 

When AoS hit I was disappointed in the way the 'old world' was discarded. but in time I started to like AoS. I thought to myself, "when they do an AoS version of high elves I'll go all in". So when Lumineth were announced I was really excited. I think GW did just that, 'Aosify' the high elves. The lore suggests there was a great civil war, as if these Lumineth have a similar history like the high elves but moved on beyond the dark/high elf divide. The elements and eastern enlightenment idea is also nice and I think some of the models are spectacular. the dawnriders in particular. 

I bought a box of Alarith, but I soon realised they just didn't feel like high elves to me. So I decided they are not for me just now. Because I don't want to spend time and money on something that doesn't excite me enough. instead I'll keep my focus on painting models I do love and on my Slaanesh projects, which are a real Aos project to me.

However, I feel funny about this thread. I gotta say it is starting to annoy me how sometimes people who like a certain army have to defend themselves for liking it.  As if some armies can be objectively 'worse' than others, and you have to explain yourself for liking it. 

I've noticed this with several releases now. A new model or range of models gets released, and people start to discuss them. But very soon it turns into complaining about why another another army didn't get these kind of models. Or why does this army get new models already, when another army is clearly in need of models a lot more.  for example, after the new Slaanesh models were revealed, some Tzeentch players started to complain they don't have any 'god specific Chosen tier warriors'.  

To me, critique on models too often turns into an attack on those who are happy with the release or like the models. In the end, we don't have any influence on what GW releases, so what is the point in being angry with the releases. 

If I came across as accusitory that someone likes something, I apologise for not being clearer.

I may not agree with conclusion about elements from the models, but everyone has their own tastes, and even in my opinion, almost everything about the models looks very well.

Not that my opinion about the models is all that important if you enjoy them.

[Beliman]

2 hours ago, elfhead said:

. I gotta say it is starting to annoy me how sometimes people who like a certain army have to defend themselves for liking it.  As if some armies can be objectively 'worse' than others, and you have to explain yourself for liking it. 

My gaming group has a joke that GW should change the name  of their IP to Age of Justification. It seems that we are not alone!