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Nizrah

AoS feels like neglacted child?

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Posted (edited)

I never did answer the OP. 

It could certainly be that I spend at most 1/4 to 1/3 of my GW hobby time with AoS, but I am not really feeling that it is that neglected.  2020 brought me a second army with the Lumineth.  Which only more than a year ago I probably would have said, I have absolutely no interest in any kind of fantasy as I had long since been burned out from D&D for more than a decade.

More directly to the Stormcast Enternals issue.  I believe that when players speak about the SCE being in a good place, they mean in terms of number or models/recent releases.  I play a very heavy Chaos Warrior and Knight S2D army which is a dark reflection of some of SCE's weaker units.  So I know all too well the uphill struggle sometimes.  With many other players being rather callous as S2D and SCE have a bunch of options many of which can make an effective army.  But if you are like me, you aren't made of money nor want to have every option your faction allows to be able to build a decent list.  I am certainly not going to ever buy Chaos Marauder anything.  They are very unattractive models to me and not what I am seeking with my army (elite, heavy armor).

I can say be grateful your rules aren't too good.  The poster faction is always going to generate more ire when they have good rules.  I also have a Primaris space marine army for 40k.  The general belly-aching about Primaris increased at least tenfold when a second codex arrived for space marines a little over a year ago.  And it really hasn't stopped since.

All I can say is play your army to the best of your ability.  If you are very lucky, might have a gaming group that will make concessions to balance things out to make a competition of games.  Even if they don't, the meta wheel in the sky keeps on turning.  When it gets around to favoring you again, you'll be a much stronger player from all those games you struggled through.  Again, with my Primaris marines.  Because I played them before they became amazing, when they did I could handicap myself down to 25% less points than my point and still handily win games because I already had to learn how to compete with less than stellar rules than didn't allow the amount of forgiveness good rules did. 

I know it stinks feeling like you don't ever have a chance at winning.  I don't think my 40k Genestealer Cult army is ever going to win a game even if they did have good rules.  Goodness help my gaming group if I do ever figure them out though.  I still have fun and try my best even if I don't really think I have any kind of chance.

Edited by Saturmorn Carvilli
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I will add that if you practice while they have bad rules then you will be ready to pounce when the rules are inevitably updated be, if not the new cheese, than at least decent. Bandwagon players have nothing on those who practiced with the training weights of sucking!

One day the die-hard beastmen players are going to absolutely DESTROY us.

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15 hours ago, amysrevenge said:

I mean.  I'm a dyed-in-the-wool GW fanboy here, but I've got a computer with MS Word, a mouse, and a backspace key.  I could probably delete the unwanted sections in about 12 minutes...

I mean it certainly can't take that long to update the app either, but look at how that's been dragging, we still don't have the new warcry warbands or the updated bonegrinder profile.

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2 hours ago, Ganigumo said:

I mean it certainly can't take that long to update the app either, but look at how that's been dragging, we still don't have the new warcry warbands or the updated bonegrinder profile.

I'm pretty sure the app team is working on 40k's app which is still a beta level mess. So bad at launch it makes Cyberpunk look well polished.

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On 1/3/2021 at 5:40 AM, Still-young said:

We don’t even know a new edition is coming, past (admittedly fairly compelling) speculation, let alone when it’s coming or if it’s moved at all. 

GW did just recently punt some big releases out of q4 and into q1. I do think they’re production schedule is taking a beating with COVID and brexit. But, like, the major punted release was 40k

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2 hours ago, Ganigumo said:

I mean it certainly can't take that long to update the app either, but look at how that's been dragging, we still don't have the new warcry warbands or the updated bonegrinder profile.

I am willing to cut them some slack given the pandemic, and lockdown, and Brexit, and everything.

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4 hours ago, Fulkes said:

I'm pretty sure the app team is working on 40k's app which is still a beta level mess. So bad at launch it makes Cyberpunk look well polished.

 

3 hours ago, NinthMusketeer said:

I am willing to cut them some slack given the pandemic, and lockdown, and Brexit, and everything.

Yeah I understand their position, but adding a few warscrolls to the app should be a simple job, probably just uploading them into the database, while the 40k app has a ton of issues that need work from my understanding. Its about prioritizing value, but the fact that what should be very simple changes on the AOS app are getting delayed by months in favor of working on the 40k app either means their software is poorly engineered (and its actually a significant effort to add warscrolls) or the small amount of labor required to keep the AOS app up to date isn't worth their time.

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1 minute ago, Ganigumo said:

 

Yeah I understand their position, but adding a few warscrolls to the app should be a simple job, probably just uploading them into the database, while the 40k app has a ton of issues that need work from my understanding. Its about prioritizing value, but the fact that what should be very simple changes on the AOS app are getting delayed by months in favor of working on the 40k app either means their software is poorly engineered (and its actually a significant effort to add warscrolls) or the small amount of labor required to keep the AOS app up to date isn't worth their time.

It's not that simple. The warscrolls need to be converted to the mobile template and if everyone is stuck with a "all hands on deck" situation for the 40k app (which launched with HUNDREDS of typos) then it's going to interfer with the AOS app.

I'm no more excited about it than anyone else but it's the situation we're stuck with, especially since GW dropped the ball so hard before handing to app ofver to Brandt to fix.

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Posted (edited)

As someone involved in both AoS and 40k (even the much maligned space marines) I would hardly say that AoS is being neglected.

Despite the global pandemic GW has been releasing a lot of new and exciting stuff for AoS, including the Lumineth, Gargants, Slaanesh, Warcry, and more. 

I think the other big thing to keep in mind that a lot of the AoS releases are new concepts while the bulk of 40k releases are either updates or expansions of existing things. AoS players can wonder about ideas like "I wonder what the new army will be?" while for 40k its more a matter of "I wonder when Eldar will get updated". In that sense some of the excitement in AoS stems from the fact you don't know what's coming next, while in 40k its more a matter of getting excited about how the things you already love are getting updated. 

Maybe I'm just a fanboy/shill but frankly I think right now is a great time to be a fan of both 40k and AoS.

And as a final point about the state of the Stormcast battletome, I don't want to sound callous but its kind of the nature of the beast. Books are rarely all created equal and often get lost behind as newer ones are released (its especially felt when the book is early in the edition). In both AoS and 40k there's armies that need some attention, but this cycle is kinda the way its always been. 

Edited by Shearl
Wrote "Battletomb" instead of "Battletome", although a battletomb sounds pretty cool
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Not going to lie I came very close to locking this thread as we're going over old ground again here and feeling a bit moany.

Comparing AoS to 40k, especially during a 40k new edition year is always going to show that AoS has had less releases.  The 40k community were having exactly the same discussions during 2018 when 2nd edition AoS came out.  It's nothing to do with being neglected at all - the fact we've had any releases during a global pandemic when manufacturing & distribution is well up the spout is remarkable!

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On 1/3/2021 at 1:34 AM, Nizrah said:

Do you feel the same way as i feel? Recents rumours tells that new edition have been postponed to q4 2021 or even q2 of 2022. I know that covid hit them hard but the amount of books they throw up for 40k is disgusting. They really should balance it between aos and 40k. As a stormcast player i really doesnt feel any want to play anymore when i knew that i have to wait another year or more to replace my very bad book. 

 

Some facts:

40k (particularly 8th ed) turned the company into a global player.  It saved them (Thanks to AoS breaking its nose being first through the door).

Covid changed the world.  Complaining about a company doing their best dealing with covid, and brexit is a little short sighted.  The music industry is dead.  Be thankful you can still buy new models.  GW literally announced a new Stormcast yesterday.  I wish the anniversary model was a Wanderer, or sylvaneth or well not always a Stormcast.

If you don't want to wait, you don't want to play, you don't want to improve don't play.  Take a break, learn a hobby, do something. 

There have been times AoS got a LOT of love and 40k was neglected more.  But I also understand there are 4 new Battle Tomes coming quite soon and a lot of the rest of us are really excited.  

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17 hours ago, RuneBrush said:

Not going to lie I came very close to locking this thread as we're going over old ground again here and feeling a bit moany.

Comparing AoS to 40k, especially during a 40k new edition year is always going to show that AoS has had less releases.  The 40k community were having exactly the same discussions during 2018 when 2nd edition AoS came out.  It's nothing to do with being neglected at all - the fact we've had any releases during a global pandemic when manufacturing & distribution is well up the spout is remarkable!

Yup, I would actually argue that they've done a great job keeping the motor running given the circumstances.  Back when 8th ed 40K dropped we did have an extended time with nothing to speak of (just a few Stormcast heroes here and there); I think it was about 9+ months between Battletomes from memory?

The contrast with this time around is stark.  AOS has had loads of new releases: Sons of Behemat, White Dwarf rules to keep things ticking over, Broken Realms and more to come.  They're putting juice into the game from all difference angles on a regular basis, despite COVID and 40K 9th ed. 

Let's be clear, I'd much rather have seen a new Gloomspite book than Slaanesh - but what they are releasing and prioritizing is really a difference topic.  I just don't think it's true to say that AOS has been cut adrift or neglected as a system.  I really don't recognise that at all.

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On 1/3/2021 at 3:46 AM, ChillTuup said:

 

Furthermore as an edit, i am a player and hobbyist who came back after years of break. Theres a few nice aos communities and people, but this supposedly big aos forum has so much negativity..every day the same complainers about GW selling and release strategy, the I want bretonnia back whiners and why does my army not get more my life is so difficult because of this and i want more horses for my army so now i feel neglected mimimimi, and constant other things that come back every thread i wonder if people shouldnt just get a different hobby where u can play 1 model and have no releases and just be happy.

Buddy, if you spent several thousand dollars on your armies, only to have them rendered OOP, with shite legends crossover rules, and then had to deal with ridiculous ebay inflation prices to continue building said OOP armies, only to be replaced with the sigmarines(which are uninspired, and bland compared to other creations they have come up with)you would be just as bitter and enraged as we were.

I don’t whine about the situation here much, I try to figure out ways of adjusting ****** warscrolls to be more balanced in gameplay, that would allow players of the old editions to convert to aos and reduce their pugilistic attitude. You complaining about their discontent just shows that you lack a sense of empathy for people who lost a lot. If it ever happens to you, I wonder how you will react.

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12 hours ago, Mwatts25 said:

Buddy, if you spent several thousand dollars on your armies, only to have them rendered OOP, with shite legends crossover rules, and then had to deal with ridiculous ebay inflation prices to continue building said OOP armies, only to be replaced with the sigmarines(which are uninspired, and bland compared to other creations they have come up with)you would be just as bitter and enraged as we were.

I don’t whine about the situation here much, I try to figure out ways of adjusting ****** warscrolls to be more balanced in gameplay, that would allow players of the old editions to convert to aos and reduce their pugilistic attitude. You complaining about their discontent just shows that you lack a sense of empathy for people who lost a lot. If it ever happens to you, I wonder how you will react.

It's frustrating for sure, but it's part of the business either way whether we like it or not and no point in discussing how I would react lol. However, imho, bretonnia for example just does not fit in the high fantasy setting of AOS. Having said that, I was mostly responding to the overal negativity of the forums and not just bretonnia, which was just an example. TS is even in other topics posting useless ****** BUT WHEN IS Stormcast getting update :(: :( :(: (:(:8  which was more my kind of point just because His army doesnt get an update yet

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As someone that has collected and played Games Workshop products since the early 90s ive got to say.....no...not at all. I think everything considered the release schedule is fine. As was earlier stated the only issue i can forsee is faction bloat slowing the rotation of releases. Seriously tho dude as someone who collects Stormcast you have 0 reason to complain about releases lol 

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2 hours ago, AccendantEvincar said:

. Seriously tho dude as someone who collects Stormcast you have 0 reason to complain about releases lol 

He because out BT isn't most obsolete maybe except Sylv in current game... And its not like they make sce cheaper and cheaper in terms of points because they knew they sucks. But this didin't help and only make you lost a theme of army of demigods and make it into theme of guys who are less durable than CoS dude in pijama and hit like a wet nuddle. 

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3 hours ago, Nizrah said:

He because out BT isn't most obsolete maybe except Sylv in current game... And its not like they make sce cheaper and cheaper in terms of points because they knew they sucks. But this didin't help and only make you lost a theme of army of demigods and make it into theme of guys who are less durable than CoS dude in pijama and hit like a wet nuddle. 

Couldn't disagree more.  Gloomspite and Nighthaunt for example would swap places in a heartbeat.

The points drops allowed you to fit the one-drop shooting Battalion, which is a seriously competitive list (one more than some armies have), and I would expect that is behind most of the podiums and tournament wins SCE have been picking up:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/10/22/metawatch-warhammer-age-of-sigmar-1-list-building-with-dan-street/

If you think they are less durable than COS dudes in pajamas you might want to take a look at the Broken Realms rules, which can reliably have your Liberators saving on 2s rerolling 1s:

https://www.goonhammer.com/broken-realms-morathi-review/#Stormcast_Eternals

They are due a new book, no doubt.  But let's not be silly.

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32 minutes ago, PlasticCraic said:

The points drops allowed you to fit the one-drop shooting Battalion, which is a seriously competitive list (one more than some armies have), and I would expect that is behind most of the podiums and tournament wins SCE have been picking up:

Of course but what about the melee SCE?
I mean ok, they may win tournament with one list, but their battletome has about 60 warscrolls. This list use 5 of them...

Broken realms is about liberators, one of their worst unit. They may tank,  but they won't kill anything. The new rules for the Gloomspites in WD are way better...

I'm not saying they should have a new BT before Nighthaunts or Gloomspite though, but Gloomspites had some good lists before the last GHB.

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8 hours ago, ChillTuup said:

It's frustrating for sure, but it's part of the business either way whether we like it or not and no point in discussing how I would react lol. However, imho, bretonnia for example just does not fit in the high fantasy setting of AOS. Having said that, I was mostly responding to the overal negativity of the forums and not just bretonnia, which was just an example. TS is even in other topics posting useless ****** BUT WHEN IS Stormcast getting update :(: :( :(: (:(:8  which was more my kind of point just because His army doesnt get an update yet

You really think that Bretonnians dont fit high fantasy? They are a fusion of Arthurian legend and the saga of Charlemagne, two of the primary inspiration points of western civilization based high fantasy novels. Even lord of the rings takes quite a bit of inspiration from both of them. Just because it doesn’t match your personal aesthetic, it doesn’t render them less fitting in high fantasy. 
 

also, i wasn’t referring to strictly Bretonnian minis, though I suspect you checked my post history to figure which army I post about most. And while Bretonnians are one of my favorites, they are far from my only army, they are just the army that needs the most rebalancing to make worth anything for AoS competition. I also have a waaagh army(Mork>Gork, fight me), a seraphon army, a kislev army(doesnt even have legends warscrolls) and a vc army (Vlad>Mannfred, fight me).

and as for the whining about faction updates, someone else in here stated the solution in here, never have just 1 army, because it can be years between updates for a single army, by doing several, the feeling of being left out is reduced.

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1 hour ago, PlasticCraic said:

Couldn't disagree more.  Gloomspite and Nighthaunt for example would swap places in a heartbeat.

The points drops allowed you to fit the one-drop shooting Battalion, which is a seriously competitive list (one more than some armies have), and I would expect that is behind most of the podiums and tournament wins SCE have been picking up:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/10/22/metawatch-warhammer-age-of-sigmar-1-list-building-with-dan-street/

If you think they are less durable than COS dudes in pajamas you might want to take a look at the Broken Realms rules, which can reliably have your Liberators saving on 2s rerolling 1s:

https://www.goonhammer.com/broken-realms-morathi-review/#Stormcast_Eternals

They are due a new book, no doubt.  But let's not be silly.

Yea, mega battalion is seriosly abusing list. But rules from morathi book are a joke lmao. Liberators even with 2+ rr1 are useless. 

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3 hours ago, Nizrah said:

But rules from morathi book are a joke lmao. Liberators even with 2+ rr1 are useless. 

It doesn't really matter how good or bad you think the Liberator build is, the point is that you said Stormcast die easier than Cities.  That's just not correct.

9 hours ago, Nizrah said:

they make sce cheaper and cheaper in terms of points because they knew they sucks. But this didin't help

That's the thing though, it did help.  Stormcast have repeatedly proven themselves capable of achieving podiums and even winning events, specifically thanks to the points reductions they got.  They've got an event winning army.  It helped.

4 hours ago, Eternalis said:

Of course but what about the melee SCE?
I mean ok, they may win tournament with one list, but their battletome has about 60 warscrolls. This list use 5 of them...

If Gloomspite's WD rules prove have a build that takes out multiple podiums and event wins, remind me to come back on here and say that it doesn't count because I can't make an effective Arachnarok gunline.

Again to reiterate - Stormcast are due a new book.  But let's not overplay our hand here.

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8 hours ago, Mwatts25 said:

You really think that Bretonnians dont fit high fantasy? They are a fusion of Arthurian legend and the saga of Charlemagne, two of the primary inspiration points of western civilization based high fantasy novels. Even lord of the rings takes quite a bit of inspiration from both of them. Just because it doesn’t match your personal aesthetic, it doesn’t render them less fitting in high fantasy. 

Exactly, both your examples are based on history in western civilization medieval direction, which is not like the high fantasy universe that AOS is. Hence the little amount of humans. And u assumend they dont match my personal aesthetic which is wrong, I own Bretonnia models as well, few knights, men at arms, trebuchet, etc.. However, if u wanna be upset about my opinion and make assumptions, go ahead.

8 hours ago, Mwatts25 said:

they are just the army that needs the most rebalancing to make worth anything for AoS competition. 

Not really...they are purposefully left out of AOS cuz GW didn't feel like they'd work or didn't make enough profit, or both.. It's the same for Kislev (yes I had them too), and Chaos Dwarfs, etc etc...

Either way the point of the thread was that someone feels neglected because his army doesn't get an update which I think is lame, especially when it comes to the army that has one of the biggest ranges already.

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1 hour ago, ChillTuup said:

  

Exactly, both your examples are based on history in western civilization medieval direction, which is not like the high fantasy universe that AOS is. Hence the little amount of humans. And u assumend they dont match my personal aesthetic which is wrong, I own Bretonnia models as well, few knights, men at arms, trebuchet, etc.. However, if u wanna be upset about my opinion and make assumptions, go ahead.

Not really...they are purposefully left out of AOS cuz GW didn't feel like they'd work or didn't make enough profit, or both.. It's the same for Kislev (yes I had them too), and Chaos Dwarfs, etc etc...

Either way the point of the thread was that someone feels neglected because his army doesn't get an update which I think is lame, especially when it comes to the army that has one of the biggest ranges already.

While charlemagne is a person of historical fact, the multiple hippogryphs that appear in the stories involving him are obvious fantasy added to the story, making them fiction, as for king arthur, it is unknown whether he was a real person or an amalgamation of several britainic leaders, but he is still a work of fiction in that there is absolutely no evidence of his actual existence. You might as well try claiming that Atlantis is a historical fact, rather than historical third party mythical hearsay(and sidenote, ulthuan is based on Atlantis, so yeah there are ties to real world mythology in whfb and aos, as Malerion Tyrion Teclis and Morathi still exist and remember, further tying to a real world myth with the attempts of Teclis to recreate elves resulting in the idoneth and making them elves for after their Atlantis sunk. Throw in the whole dragon story of how arthur got his surname and its even more high fantasy. 
 

as for why gw didn’t continue with those lines, it didnt have to do with profits or aesthetics. It was because gw wanted exclusive trademarks on all their terminology, and the terms used for all those knights, skeletons, mummies, kosaks, and even the term elves, are not able to be exclusively trademarked. Thats why lizardmen became Seraphon, dwarves became duardin, elves became aelves, etc. because them if anyone makes similar miniatures and uses any of those terms gw has proprietary rights and can sue. 
 

this has backfired on them several times, many of those terms also cannot be trademarked, and they faced cultural lawsuits for them trying to steal copyrights to those terms(for example duardin and aelves are Northern European words from Norse mythology to describe dwarves and elves, so they are just as much open to public use, as for the word Seraphon, its actually a first name, and several people filed lawsuits against gw for that too. The loss of these suits are half of the inspiration to have forgeworld redo the old world. The other half being player demand. 
 

as for original poster, yes he whined about the fact his army has not been updated in a while, how is that different from the multitudes that whined for vc updates during 6th-  8th edition, and because they whined, they got them. Squeaky wheel gets the grease after all.

Edited by Mwatts25
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I do think it's comical to say that Bretonnia isn't high fantasy when a long-running complaint among some WHFB fans back in the day was that they were too high fantasy for the Warhammer world, even after the grimification they received in 6th edition.

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