Broken Realms: Morathi - SPOILER Discussion + Lore Summary

[The Brotherhood of Necros]

57 minutes ago, Overread said:

edit - thinking on it the best move Morathi could make would be to give the Idoneth the idea of living like Vampires do. That is giving them an actual land settlement and terrain to "farm" the population for souls. Shift them from Viking Soul Raiders into farmers. Make them appreciate the willing offering and easy harvesting of more souls from a living settlement and the idea that they could spread to more and more land. Even if it just secures coastal kingdoms it a big shift and could be a huge thing for the Idoneth to have some reliable soul access that isn't reliant on raids. 

This is actually really close to my Idoneth’s lore. (@welcome_to_innswich). Imagine an enclave so decimated, it lacks the numbers to safely raid for souls. Instead, the few survivors have ingratiated themselves into small coastal settlements, harbour towns and the like. They ensure the fishermen’s nets are always full, the townspeople’s bellies likewise. Over time, a cult has sprung up around them. It has become an honour, a gift even, to dream forever with the Fish Wife and her Sisters in the Black Reef. 
 

I can’t wait to get my hands on this book! (Hurry up, preorder!) 

[Lord of the Isle]

That lore is brilliant

[Overread]

I think we will see Idoneth take dry land settlements and interests at some stage. Right now there's no one who can threaten their holdings save for big magical events. Idoneth raid with almost impunity at present. Whilst we've had hints of other underwater races and forces (eg a mirror undersea army for Slyvaneth), there's not really any other undersea lore as such that isn't dominated by Idoneth. 

 

So they've got to come on dry land at some point to have some impact in the world; and beyond the raiding of coastal settlements. That they made a play for Morathi's most heavily defended fortress shows that the Idoneth, when roused, do have significant martial powers beyond just being raiders. Granted they did fail, but I suspect that is only because Slaanesh forces tore in behind them and Morathi shifted gears into becoming even more powerful. 

[NinthMusketeer]

12 hours ago, HollowHills said:

It seems like elves in aos are like Eldar in 40k now. If they die their souls automatically go to Slaanesh unless something happens to stop that. Hence the deepkin doing their best to keep all their fallen souls in the coralaium. 

I'm not clear on exactly how it works, but it seems to be the case that living deepkin can communicate with the stored souls of their ancestors. These can also then be used for powerful magic, such as summoning the eidolons.

I'm guessing it was quite a big deal for Volturnos to get the original souls back. Plus it seems like they only wanted the lantern to stop Teclis having it. So overall, other than the casualties of battle, it seems like the deepkin got what they wanted. 

I'm not really sure why they would want to side with Morathi long term unless she has a specific plan in mind. Though I suppose "I'll pay you in souls" is a good enough reason as any.

It isn't that all aelven souls go to Slaanesh; the Cythai were first-generation Idoneth who were pulled out of Slaanesh after being devoured during the End Times. They have a direct connection to Slaanesh, and that trauma is really what defines who the Idoneth became. But back to the point; these aren't just random elf/aelf souls, or even random Idoneth souls, these are the same souls Teclis worked with after they were first pulled out of Slaanesh.

As for what Idoneth do with their souls now, they have their own version of an infinity circuit in their settlements. Forget what it's called, but they go over the whole schtick in the battletome.

[NinthMusketeer]

Just now, NinthMusketeer said:

It isn't that all aelven souls go to Slaanesh; the Cythai were first-generation Idoneth who were pulled out of Slaanesh after being devoured during the End Times. They have a direct connection to Slaanesh, and that trauma is really what defines who the Idoneth became. But back to the point; these aren't just random elf/aelf souls, or even random Idoneth souls, these are the same souls Teclis worked with after they were first pulled out of Slaanesh.

I think for people who don't know the Idoneth background the significance of what Morathi is offering isn't very clear and the book dropped the ball on that. In short; the Idoneth's problem with DoK was that they stole the lantern which could be used against them. Morathi is not only giving them the lantern back with it damaged as a bonus (less able to be used against them), PLUS the souls of the literal founders of their entire race that were previously believed gone for good. Plus an offering of more souls for the traditional Idoneth soul buffet they got going. She is giving back what started the war plus reparations, it is a hugely significant offering.

As for what Idoneth do with their souls now, they have their own version of an infinity circuit in their settlements. Forget what it's called, but they go over that whole schtick in the battletome.

 

[HorticulusTGA]

That article on WarCom last night was a bit weird.

Spoiler

 

- Did Morathi definitely succeed or not ? Is she really a Goddess right now ?

- Did some Aelf souls espace with her ? Aenarion maybe but who else ?

- Is the Newborn really Slaanesh ? I thought it was clear it was its child.

 

Anyway, going by the last picture, maybe the next book is about Teclis' reaction !

And the last paragraph certainly means something SPECIAL is going on with the Orruks  

[NinthMusketeer]

Morathi created a portal that let a whole stream of elven souls out, but she casually dismissed the ones she wasn't looking for. So I'd say a large number of 'unclaimed' elf souls are out there.

She is a god now, though in AoS that is a rather large field of power and potency. How strong she is relative to others we don't know. How much of Morathi-Khaine is still her we don't know. The precise events the bridges her being attacked by Anaerion and her completed ascension we don't know. Was she able to devour him? Was the split form of her and snek intentional? Do the two entities have separate thoughts of their own? Was there a problem in the process that she isn't revealing? That tiny gap in the narrative could conceal a lot of important things.

And yeah, the Slaanesh-thing is most definitely not Slaanesh itself. An avatar, an offspring of sorts, yes, but not the whole god. Don't know why they referred to it like that in the article.

[Overread]

We are given to understand that she didn't intend to split into two beings, it seems that was a fallout of her being attacked by Anaerion's soul. Morathi was "cleaved in twain (two)" by Anaerion's attack and the attack itself is said to "cost her dearly".  I would presume this cost is her soul and mind being split across the two beings. Of course we don't yet know much of the fallout from this, clearly in the throws of power when she emerges she appears very happy with her situation and empowered as she immediately launches into negotiation. 

Whatever fallout there is of her now having two bodies we'll have to see as time develops. The biggest issue for her is how insanely fearful she is of betrayal. With two bodies to control will she split her mind like Nagash does so that she can operate both independently. If so will she come to start to have one side resent/fear the other. Will the part of her mind in the deformed snake come to loath her more regal self; will her regal self fear the physical power of her mutated form. 

Or will she seek solace in herself; seeking a reflection in the mirror that cannot threaten her because it is her. Another who she can trust perfectly. Perhaps again she might follow down Nagash's mental pathway of thinking that one can only trust those that are of her (heck she already part does this with Melusai and Khinerai and even more with her Bloodwracks).  

 

[xking]

Being a god in AoS does not necessarily mean that being will be very powerful.  One on one Nagash  was crushing most of the underworld gods, but avoided fighting Sigmar directly.  Then Nagash was defeated by Archaon.   I think even in one of the death/Neferata novels, Neferata states she has personally killed gods.  

[Scurvydog]

Morathis shadow queen form sounds more like a weapon than an individual, a dark mirror reflecting her will and intention, but not sentient as such. At least that is what it seems like, but perhaps later lore will reveal more.

That last scene on the boat though, that had me going the most actually, it was really intense and while small in scale the stakes felt high and much more defined, rather than the usual "they attack oh no, but then reinforcements tadada! But THEN hidden enemy! gasp!". Somehow I am more interested in whatever that creature that saved Ven Brecht actually is, bat like wings and red eyes? By all accounts it sounds like a Vargheist, while that might be too obvious, it might be just what the doctor ordered.

[JackStreicher]

Yeah, the whole devinity in AoS is a mess. In reality they‘re just strong heroes, I don‘t see what qualifies any of them as a god? They‘re not hard to kill, they‘re not powerful enough to defeat armies on their own...

imo a definition of what Godhood means in AoS is required.

[NinthMusketeer]

2 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

Yeah, the whole devinity in AoS is a mess. In reality they‘re just strong heroes, I don‘t see what qualifies any of them as a god? They‘re not hard to kill, they‘re not powerful enough to defeat armies on their own...

imo a definition of what Godhood means in AoS is required.

I completely disagree. I love that it is diverse and blurred as to where 'really strong being' turns into godhood. Having it be ambiguous and not fully explained really helps sell the narrative and add depth to the setting. When everything is fully explained, a setting feels smaller and less interesting because it loses that element of potential. Having the right balance of explained to unexplained is something I think GW has always done very well, creating settings which have enough grounding to be understood as a whole but enough mystery to create broad avenues of what MIGHT be cannon.

[xking]

17 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

Yeah, the whole devinity in AoS is a mess. In reality they‘re just strong heroes, I don‘t see what qualifies any of them as a god? They‘re not hard to kill, they‘re not powerful enough to defeat armies on their own...

imo a definition of what Godhood means in AoS is required.

What we do know is gods in AoS get more power the more worshippers they have, the more glorious things done in their name.  Even statutes and monuments built to them give them more power.  The  incarnate gods(the gods that embody a wind of magic) can draw upon the magical energy of their realm to grow their power.  Such as Sigmar can  absorb the magic of azyr, and he also gets power from every victory won in his name.

Edited November 16, 2020 by xking

[HorticulusTGA]

17 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

Yeah, the whole devinity in AoS is a mess. In reality they‘re just strong heroes, I don‘t see what qualifies any of them as a god? They‘re not hard to kill, they‘re not powerful enough to defeat armies on their own...

imo a definition of what Godhood means in AoS is required.

You may want to read the two White Dwarf articles Phil Kelly did on this very topic then ;D 

You'll find them in WD June 2019 and July 2019  

He specifically explain how godhood work in AOS (aka similarly to all Warhammer settings), with Elemental gods (like Chaos or Gorkamorka) and Ascended ones (like powerful heroes once Mortal that, by fate or magic, ascend to a new status - i.e. a whole bunch of the Incarnates from the End Times) - all are still empowered by their followers or the consumption of souls. 

Also the AOS Core Book p. 111, the Illuminations of the Gods, about Faith and Omniscience (or not).

 

[JackStreicher]

21 minutes ago, NinthMusketeer said:

When everything is fully explained, a setting feels smaller and less interesting because it loses that element of potential.

This might as well have the exact opposite effect. We‘d at least need to know what‘s the difference between a High Oracle Morathi and a Morathi-Khain? She is more powerful - yet what kind of power or abilities are we talking about?

Without having any Information what godhood means we get to the Transformers dilemma:

At the beginning of the film a Transformer is peppered with rockets, not taking any damage. In the middle of the film one dies to a single rocket and at the end a perfectly fine transformer can be killed through punching it really hard. -> It makes no sense.

That point to me was when Archaon killed Nagash (apparently killing Nagash is a Test of being strong or sth.). Archaon is no god, he pretty much was defeated by Valten back in the day and suddenly he can kill gods, like what?

Without a definition, which does not need to be super detailed or concrete, about what makes a god, being a god is meaningless.

Edited November 16, 2020 by JackStreicher

[Overread]

I think any setting that works well generally has fairly strict and formal rules for how things operate (even when those things are chaotic and insane). Even if those rules and concepts are not always fully explained to the reader. It gives a sense of backbone and structure to the story and can help limit how often authors use "and then I used a more powerful spell that I'd never used before" to save the day. 

In general with AoS its clear that souls and belief are two powerful forces. Belief clearly operates, Morathi has to syphon it from the heart of Khaine to herself. Meanwhile souls are clearly a commodity for the gods. Interestingly though most "behave" themselves with regard to the natural order of life for their various species. It's really only Sigmar who is damaging things by pulling the souls from the Realm of the Dead (or before they get there). Other gods seem content to allow the natural order to go through its motions, even if it means they lose souls, they focus more so on promotion of their people and the fresh creation of new souls and the promotion of the individual lifeforces of the creatures. 

 

[JackStreicher]

5 minutes ago, HorticulusTGA said:

You'll find them in WD June 2019 and July 2019

Thank you!

[Grim Beasties]

Finished the book yesterday and for someone who really is not fond of Da Panzie gitz, I really enjoyed this book. I think I might need to read it again before I can put my full thoughts in order but this is the type of narrative content I love for. Enjoying reading everyone's thoughts on it so far and I'm excited for the future, especially for Destruction.

[xking]

1 hour ago, JackStreicher said:

This might as well have the exact opposite effect. We‘d at least need to know what‘s the difference between a High Oracle Morathi and a Morathi-Khain? She is more powerful - yet what kind of power or abilities are we talking about?

Without having any Information what godhood means we get to the Transformers dilemma:

At the beginning of the film a Transformer is peppered with rockets, not taking any damage. In the middle of the film one dies to a single rocket and at the end a perfectly fine transformer can be killed through punching it really hard. -> It makes no sense.

That point to me was when Archaon killed Nagash (apparently killing Nagash is a Test of being strong or sth.). Archaon is no god, he pretty much was defeated by Valten back in the day and suddenly he can kill gods, like what?

Without a definition, which does not need to be super detailed or concrete, about what makes a god, being a god is meaningless.

I look at like DBZ power levels.   Many gods are just more powerful then other gods.

[shinros]

Finished my book, I do think the ones who helped our Lord Veritant are vampires. The carnage? The description? Plus the book makes special note that his family-line have embraced the Soulblight curse to survive the age of chaos. Overall, can't wait to see how the newborn turns out, the warhammer article is also somewhat confusing, the book makes no indication that the newborn is slaanesh. I think I will just chalk it up to bad editing. 

On Anvilgard? The way the betrayal happened I really hope Ven Brecht, Slaanesh or perhaps even the new vampire faction gives Morathi a bloody nose. I mean, the plan was great with how she annexed the city. Still, I can sense a loss coming in her direction sooner or later.

Also I'm excited at the new narrative possibilities since it looks like Morathi wants to expand her empire, It doesn't look like she will stop with Anvilgard. Despite not being an order player I felt a tinge of salt at the betrayal. It was more the case of the arrogance on display since she now had godhood. I'm not upset, but it's rare that a warhammer supplement invokes such a emotion. That's a good thing in my opinion. The bad kind is the narrative ending of the ritual of the damned psychic awakening book.  

In the end Broken Realms Morathi is leagues better than Psychic awakening. Broken Realms Morathi, in terms of lore should be the golden standard when it comes to supplements, for both 40k and AOS.  

Edited November 17, 2020 by shinros

[Uncas]

I think the creature that saved Van Brecht is Malerion. The creature is described as having a claw, has wings, is wreathed in shadow, and has crimson eyes. The creature makes sure no witnesses are left behind, a modus operandi of Malerion. The sky is pitch black when he gets outside. Malerion is probably not too happy about Morathi’s letting Slaanesh loose and her newfound godhood. I could see him freeing Van Brecht so that he can go tell Sigmar of Morathi’s treachery.

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Edited November 17, 2020 by Uncas

[LuminethMage]

1 minute ago, Uncas said:

I think the creature that saved Van Brecht is Malerion. The creature is described as having a claw, has wings, is wreathed in shadow, and has crimson eyes. Malerion is probably not too happy about Morathi’s letting Slaanesh loose and her newfound godhood. I could see him freeing Van Brecht so that he can go tell Sigmar of Morathi’s treachery.

Why didn't he stop her then? A little pressure applied at the right time when the Idoneth attacked would have done the trick. I think the vampire angle makes more sense, especially with ven Brecht's background story. 

Malerion seems still really far away, maybe they don't even have a model for him yet. Otherwise his total absence in the plot would not make much sense to me. Or GW will depict him much weaker in the end than we thought he is. If he wouldn't even know what's going on in Ulgu. 

[Uncas]

8 minutes ago, LuminethMage said:

Why didn't he stop her then? A little pressure applied at the right time when the Idoneth attacked would have done the trick. I think the vampire angle makes more sense, especially with ven Brecht's background story. 

Malerion seems still really far away, maybe they don't even have a model for him yet. Otherwise his total absence in the plot would not make much sense to me. Or GW will depict him much weaker in the end than we thought he is. If he wouldn't even know what's going on in Ulgu. 

Who knows what Malerion  is up to when Morathi is doing her thing. He plays the long-game, this may be all part of his master plan, I don’t know. They have said that broken realms is focused on the aelves. I could see little Malerion teasers in the books leading up to a 3rd edition release.

It could be a vampire, but I think Malerion makes more sense from a plot standpoint. 

Edited November 17, 2020 by Uncas

[Rhivan]

Personally I think it's Vampires. They've played up the Vampire ancestry for a bit. Could some of the bare armed w/ rapier rumor engines that have been going about lately. Plus it'll give Death some love which received no love yet in Broken Realms. 

 

If Malerion gets involved (and I desperately hope that he does) it's going to be closer to the end IMO. It's just too soon to play a hand either way. Let Morathi make  the big grand play, this is her time. As long as she does not die let her suffer the consequences.  Next book is going to be the response to this play. I expect Death (With Vampires) and maybe Destruction to get some love here, along with Hedonites who have too big a cliffhanger to leave out. 

[NinthMusketeer]

Well we have some Slaanesh previews coming this Saturday.