Broken Realms: Morathi - SPOILER Discussion + Lore Summary

[Doko]

As city of sigmar players i really dont like the book.

 

First see how my citys(alegiances) seems gonna be deleted one by one in each book and replaced by new downgraded citys with worse rules.

Second see how armys at the same lvl or better than citys get huge buffs as idoneths while citys dont get anything dont have sense,how is posible the sorceress in dragon have a save of 5 and nothing more,and only cast one spell for 300 points when per name a old and new example,the verminlords have a 4 save and special save of 4 and cast 2 spells for less points,or the new idoneth mage who have a save of 3 and special save of 4 and cast 2 spells.

So easy to see that the sorceress needd a save 4 and special save of 5 with two cast to be at the level of all the similar models of others armys

 

But i hope old citys never gonna be deleted (the rules) and we have old citys and these news for who want play them and who knows if any of these future citys gonna be a dwarf city and i gonna can play my dispossesed+fyreslayers in the same list.

 

Ok now not all is grudges,the book lore is great and i would like to know who is the bat wing who saved the stormcast,maybe a new vampire faction coming and this vampire is one old familiar who has fallen to the curse? Or maybe be malerion who fused with his dragon at the end of times and so have wings.

 

I think is the vampire and we gonna see maybe a vampire new army with the release of the death book

 

But if

[HollowHills]

I'm not sure if Idoneth got shafted or not. One of the reviews said they got given some powerful elf souls by Morathi, which sounds cool, but at the same time it seems they got robbed and ended up losing. 

[xking]

Morathi deserves every terrible thing that happens to her.   I don't like what happened with Anvilguard, went from an interesting  cosmopolitan city to boring evil elf city.  Morathi  build your own cities you bit*h

I hope Slaanesh steamrolls the aelves ,  chaos controls 95+% of the realms and  death is ascendant. Yet these aelves backstab each other and their allies, or are just not  cooperating at all. 

I will  be happy when when/if  Grungni, Grimnir, Valaya  return.  So sigmar can have some allies  who don't suck .     Never trust an elf!

[Twisted Firaun]

8 minutes ago, xking said:

Morathi deserves every terrible thing that happens to her.   I don't like what happened with Anvilguard, went from an interesting  cosmopolitan city to boring evil elf city.  Morathi  build your own cities you bit*h

I hope Slaanesh steamrolls the aelves ,  chaos controls 95+% of the realms and  death is ascendant. Yet these aelves backstab each other and their allies, or are just not  cooperating at all. 

I will  be happy when when/if  Grungni, Grimnir, Valaya  return.  So sigmar can have some allies  who don't suck .     Never trust an elf!

Hashut and The Ancestor Gods approve this message. Truthfully I'm more worried about the fact that SLAANESH HAD A KID!!! will this put chaos in ascendancy again? Will the other aelven factions turn against the idoneth for supporting Morathi? Will Chaos Dwarfs appear to kick Teclis' ass for stealing their icons of worship for his mountain furries? who knows. 

[Icarion]

I see no real difference between Morathi's actions and Sigmar's. Sigmar is just as willing to lie, cheat and steal to accomplish what he believes to be right. He corrupts Teclis' gift to the civilizations of the Realms, the Illlumination engines. He rage quit the realms after the battle of burning skies, abandoning the rest of Order. Goes further to kidnap souls and torture them into fighting for him. And then is totally cool with murdering innocents to secure his power.

To be clear, all the order gods suck, but nothing that Morathi has done seems vastly different or worse than anything that Sigmar did. She freed Slaanesh? Cool, he freed Gorkamorka and Nagash, how has that worked out for the realms? He sent Grimnir to his death. lol.

 

[novakai]

10 minutes ago, Athrawes said:

I see no real difference between Morathi's actions and Sigmar's. Sigmar is just as willing to lie, cheat and steal to accomplish what he believes to be right. He corrupts Teclis' gift to the civilizations of the Realms, the Illlumination engines. He rage quit the realms after the battle of burning skies, abandoning the rest of Order. Goes further to kidnap souls and torture them into fighting for him. And then is totally cool with murdering innocents to secure his power.

To be clear, all the order gods suck, but nothing that Morathi has done seems vastly different or worse than anything that Sigmar did. She freed Slaanesh? Cool, he freed Gorkamorka and Nagash, how has that worked out for the realms? He sent Grimnir to his death. lol.

 

well to be fair Grimnir was just an idiot, come on die to a godbeast when other have killed them in easier fashion lol

I think your just negatively associating his action as bad but  none of those stuff where attributed to himself but rather he was just naïve that those action wouldn't lead to worser results.

his use of teclis engine was to safeguard terrible stuff, he didn't corrupts anything he just didn't have a plan when those safeguards where discover

he had to retreat from the burning skies battle because the battle was lost so he had to think of a better plan to defeat chaos, it wasn't rage quit but live to fight another day. and let face it everyone bail on him on that battle.

Nagash and Gorkamorka where good allies but they just also selfish beings that just don't want to work with others

other stuff are just not true, rather just over negative association then realize world is F-ed up got to make hard decisions

the difference is that Sigmar is trying  fighting for others but has to do is a non omnipotent less then perfect god while Morathi is just in it for herself .and shows more Vanity in her actions

[xking]

31 minutes ago, Athrawes said:

I see no real difference between Morathi's actions and Sigmar's. Sigmar is just as willing to lie, cheat and steal to accomplish what he believes to be right. He corrupts Teclis' gift to the civilizations of the Realms, the Illlumination engines. He rage quit the realms after the battle of burning skies, abandoning the rest of Order. Goes further to kidnap souls and torture them into fighting for him. And then is totally cool with murdering innocents to secure his power.

To be clear, all the order gods suck, but nothing that Morathi has done seems vastly different or worse than anything that Sigmar did. She freed Slaanesh? Cool, he freed Gorkamorka and Nagash, how has that worked out for the realms? He sent Grimnir to his death. lol.

 

What are you talking about, Sigmar used  the enlightenment engines, to seal away terrible unkillable Titans and horrible artifacts that could not be controlled by mortals, and with the coming of chaos. Was the right thing to do. There was no malice in What he did. 

Sigmar does not go around torturing people and killing innocences, maybe you should read some stormcast novels to get thier view on reforging, is it painful? Yes, but so is childbirth. Gorkamorka and Nagash were cooperative when freed and tangible benefits for the age of myth, was freeing them ultimately mistakes, yes.  

Sigmar did not "ragequit the realms", there was no point in fighting because he had already lost, for every battle he won, he lost a hundred more.  So he retreated and formulated a plan, then he came back.  

Grimnir is a Slayer God and would not have accepted an unworthy foe.  And even then Sigmar regretted mentioning the name of his Target.

 

Edited November 7, 2020 by xking

[The Red King]

17 minutes ago, xking said:

What are you talking about, Sigmar used  the enlightenment engines, to seal away terrible unkillable Titans and horrible artifacts that could not be controlled by mortals, and with the coming of chaos. Was the right thing to do. There was no malice in What he did. 

Sigmar does not go around torturing people and killing innocences, maybe you should read some stormcast novels to get thier view on reforging, is it painful? 

He just couldnt be bothered to say "Hey Teclis I have an idea how to use these things to do some good what do you think?" Because he is.... what? Arrogant? Untrusting? Stupid?

As for torturing and the like Sigmar may not do it himself but his followers, even his stormcast, in places strike more fear than awe because a slum may be burned to the ground along with all the innocents to make sure they got the chaos cult out. As to the second bit it would be pretty immoral to force someone into child birth against their will too. He grabbed these souls without question and without regard. Read the soul wars novel where one of the "evil" banshees became that way because at the very violent and terrible end of her life as her and her husband were being murdered by chaos she took solace knowing she would be able to spend eternity with the man she love- what's this? Oh my god it's Sigmar with a steel chair! And boom her lovers soul is snatched away and the memories of his love are burned out because Sigmar doesn't need those he needs you to fight!

 

He has no regard for what is individually right and hold dearly to an arrogant belief that he knows what's best for everyone. He's written just like the Emperor of Mankind in 40k. Hopefully they fix that before they write in so many poor decisions that the only options remain evil or absolute moron.

[xking]

28 minutes ago, The Red King said:

He just couldnt be bothered to say "Hey Teclis I have an idea how to use these things to do some good what do you think?" Because he is.... what? Arrogant? Untrusting? Stupid?

As for torturing and the like Sigmar may not do it himself but his followers, even his stormcast, in places strike more fear than awe because a slum may be burned to the ground along with all the innocents to make sure they got the chaos cult out. As to the second bit it would be pretty immoral to force someone into child birth against their will too. He grabbed these souls without question and without regard. Read the soul wars novel where one of the "evil" banshees became that way because at the very violent and terrible end of her life as her and her husband were being murdered by chaos she took solace knowing she would be able to spend eternity with the man she love- what's this? Oh my god it's Sigmar with a steel chair! And boom her lovers soul is snatched away and the memories of his love are burned out because Sigmar doesn't need those he needs you to fight!

 

He has no regard for what is individually right and hold dearly to an arrogant belief that he knows what's best for everyone. He's written just like the Emperor of Mankind in 40k. Hopefully they fix that before they write in so many poor decisions that the only options remain evil or absolute moron.

I have read most AoS lore, forbidden power indicates that Teclis would not agreed. Teclis  cares more about the bigger picture then Sigmar, but sigmar cared more to stop the rampaging near-unkillablemonsters from preying on the common people.

The soul bound RPG, indicates that sigmar is not a fan of any of his stormcast killing innocence. And two stormhost are being investigated because of it. 

As for Sigmar taking souls, well that's just a bit of gray area for the setting. The pros far outweigh the cons however when it comes to saving all reality from the predictions of chaos and death. Any form of memory loss is a flaw, in the process.

Spirits who become undead are corrupted by  necromanc energies, not because of how they died. They go to the respective underworld.

Sigmar does have a regard for what is right, but due to the state of things in the setting. He has to be somewhat pragmatic. Sigmar is not prefect, but  at least he try to help.  

 

 

Edited November 7, 2020 by xking

[Icarion]

25 minutes ago, xking said:

 

What are you talking about, Sigmar used  the enlightenment engines, to seal away terrible unkillable Titans and horrible artifacts that could not be controlled by mortals, and with the coming of chaos. Was the right thing to do. There was no malice in What he did. 

The Enlightment Engines were designed to speed peoples thought, to help people learn and spread civilization. What Sigmar had Grungi do to them is to make people forget. Seems like a corruption of their purpose to me. Justification doesn't matter, malice doesnt matter either. Objectively Sigmar warped them to be something opposite to what they had been intended to be.

 

Quote

Sigmar does not go around torturing people and killing innocences, maybe you should read some stormcast novels to get thier view on reforging, is it painful? Yes, but so is childbirth.

 

Have you read the malign portents short stories or soul wars? It sure seem that the reforging of a soul into a Stormcast is like torture. full of pain and screaming until the soul submits and is overwhelmed by the will of soul smiths. Just because Stormcast souls have been broken enough not to resent the process, doesn't make it any less monstrous. These were people with families, friends, cultures and freedoms that were ripped away. 

When he closed the gates to azyr, he sure killed a lot of innocent refugees. His Stormcast also tend to kill a lot of innocents which have an unfortunate habit of getting in their way.

Quote

Gorkamorka and Nagash were cooperative when freed and tangible benefits for the age of myth, was freeing them ultimately mistakes, yes.  

incompetence is no excuse. From the beginning both gods chaffed against Sigmar's bonds, and Nagash started planning his obvious betrayal. Thinking he could keep Nagash and Gorkamorka on a leash, diverting them against their known natures is the height of godly arrogance. Sigmar is as responsible for the atrocities they have committed as Morathi will be for Slaanesh. At least she wasn't deluding herself into believing that Slaanesh could be contained. 

Quote

Sigmar did not "ragequit the realms", there was no point in fighting because he had already lost, for every battle he won, he lost a hundred more.  So he retreated and formulated a plan, then he came back.  

After the battle for burning skies, Sigmar basically gave up on the fight against chaos and started tearing apart the realm of Death looking for Nagash. After failing to achieve anything meaningful there, he seals the gates to Azyr and basically leaves the realms to their fate. He gave up out of rage after Nagash's inevitable betrayal, that is kinda of the definition of Ragequiting. 

Worth point out how many other gods who didn't have the option of running and hiding still managed to fend off chaos enough to keep parts of their civilizations intact. 

+++++++

Of course there is justification for all of this, but justification doesn't make something objectively "right". Morathi has justification for the the awful things she is doing too I'm sure. All the gods do what they feel is right, and along the way they brutalize innocents and their own followers. There are no good guys in Warhammer , and people decrying Morathi, while turning a blind eye to the same monstrous actions committed by other gods is amusing.

Hypocracy is hypocracy.

Morathi truly is a god now, and she got there by doing what every other Order god is willing to do to get ahead, especially Sigmar.

[novakai]

You two really got to let your anti sigmar bias go from clouding your interpretation of the lore. There some clear misleading excerpt that your pulling that are straight up false for people learning the lore.

[Icarion]

8 minutes ago, novakai said:

You two really got to let your anti sigmar bias go from clouding your interpretation of the lore. There some clear misleading excerpt that your pulling that are straight up false for people learning the lore.

I'm not anti Sigmar at all. His character is incredible, and his motivations are laudable. What I can't stand is people trying to paint him as superior to other gods, when there is ample evidence that he is just as flawed as all the rest.

His flaws are what make him interesting. 

[Sabotage!]

So now that Slaanesh is a big deal we are going to see this translated into Slaanesh Mortals aside from just one new hero and a new Underworlds band........right?

I so very much want a unit of Slaangors like the one in Direchasm.


That all aside it sounds like a pretty interesting book. Cool to see the plot move forward.

[Icarion]

Just now, Sabotage! said:

So now that Slaanesh is a big deal we are going to see this translated into Slaanesh Mortals aside from just one new hero and a new Underworlds band........right?

I so very much want a unit of Slaangors like the one in Direchasm.


That all aside it sounds like a pretty interesting book. Cool to see the plot move forward.

I think so.

The story ends, with Hedonites gathering to hear the first words of the Newborn.

If feel like if GW intended to give Hedonites an broken realms update without a new model release, this would have been the book to do it. The absence of their rules in Morathi gives me a great deal of hope that, with the Newborn to lead them, their update will be more meaningful, and will coincide with a mortals release. 

[Sabotage!]

9 minutes ago, Athrawes said:

I think so.

The story ends, with Hedonites gathering to hear the first words of the Newborn.

If feel like if GW intended to give Hedonites an broken realms update without a new model release, this would have been the book to do it. The absence of their rules in Morathi gives me a great deal of hope that, with the Newborn to lead them, their update will be more meaningful, and will coincide with a mortals release. 

That's a good point. Maybe one of the books in Broken Realms will focus on the Newborn? Slaanesh doesn't need a ton of kits - maybe a dual kit of mortals, a kit of Slaangors, and maybe a big hero kit for the Newborn and a normal mortal hero (maybe....already have the Lord of Pain). Something like that would put them pretty in line with the rest of the Chaos gods for options.

[sandlemad]

The annexation of Anvilgard by rights should offer a host of interesting background opportunities for folks who are interested in the faction in much the same way that the destruction of Cadia did for folks with Cadian armies.

If you're an Anvilgard CoS player, what does it mean to Your Dudes to know that they city has been taken by a once-ally? How do they feel about elves? How do they feel about folks they once fought alongside? What about Sigmar, where was he? Or the Anvils of the Heldenhammer, why did they not protect the citizens? Or the Kharadron, do they intend to shrug and continue trading?

What will Your Dudes do, join up with a government in exile? Attempt to undermine this new goddess's influence? Vocally decry her while still fighting chaos/Nagash/etc? Push for a crusade against Har Kuron? Refuse to fight alongside the Darkling Covens or Scourge Privateers of other cities? Launch partisan attacks against Morathi's new empire? Grind their teeth, bury their bitterness and find common cause against larger existential threats? 

Any of these would easily be enough to build a characterful army around and of course if you don't care about such things, the book seems to be explicit that you can use the same rules as before.

[LuminethMage]

Some things I found interesting. 
 

With Har Kuron, it looks like Malerion’s release is really far off into the future, it the units that his range includes will not look like aelves at all. You can now play what is a big part of your old DE range. Umbraneth could just turn out to be  all the forces United under Morathi. 

The Lumineth being able to ally Idoneth looks even more like a farce than before ... or hints at a plot twist coming. 

The total silence about the Phoenix Tempel in the Lumineth BT, which shares so much of its symbolic with the Lumineth, and especially with Tyrion (the Ur-Phoenix and Tyrion share the same symbol) might have been on purpose. If such re-alliances all of a sudden are a possibility. 

[armisael]

4 hours ago, novakai said:

You two really got to let your anti sigmar bias go from clouding your interpretation of the lore. There some clear misleading excerpt that your pulling that are straight up false for people learning the lore.

Agreed, when people have negative bias, they devalue the good thing and highlight the bad thing.

[Clan's Cynic]

4 hours ago, Athrawes said:

 

Morathi truly is a god now, and she got there by doing what every other Order god is willing to do to get ahead, especially Sigmar.

I think the key difference is motivation. Sigmar's far from perfect, but we've never been given any reason to believe he's tried to be anything but altruistic with his intentions. He's done what's he's done because he believes it's for the greater good of civilisation, freedom etc as a whole - he's looking out for more than himself.

Morathi on the other hand only cares about Morathi. 

Edited November 8, 2020 by Clan's Cynic

[King Under the Mountain]

I speak for all Dwarfs everywhere.

"Great just what we needed....more Elf Gods"

[Envyus]

8 hours ago, Doko said:

As city of sigmar players i really dont like the book.

 

First see how my citys(alegiances) seems gonna be deleted one by one in each book and replaced by new downgraded citys with worse rules.

 

I don't get this how are these rules worse? The Misthaven and Har Kurnon allegiances seem pretty solid to me.   

[xking]

9 hours ago, Clan's Cynic said:

I think the key difference is motivation. Sigmar's far from perfect, but we've never been given any reason to believe he's tried to be anything but altruistic with his intentions. He's done what's he's done because he believes it's for the greater good of civilisation, freedom etc as a whole - he's looking out for more than himself.

Morathi on the other hand only cares about Morathi. 

I was just playing Skyrim, I go around helping people, doing quests. Ran into some bandits attacking some helpless NPC, so I walk up to the bandits and literally chop their heads off.  And it got me thinking, am I just as bad as the bandits for using violence? Do intentions even matter? Yes.   Because a person is not judged based on the worst things they have done or the best things they have done. But the sum total of all that they are.   

And when it comes to Sigmar, everything in the lore indicates he is trying to help others.  It was Sigmar that freed the first 12 tribes of azyr from enslavement by the King of Broken Constellations and slew that nightmarish entity. It was Sigmar and Grungni who brokered lasting peace between those same 12 tribes and the first clans of the Khazukan.  Together they brought about an era of peace.

It was Sigmar who came to the aid of Alarielle in ghyran, he outwitted Ravok the canopy dancer. Saving the sylavneth from its insanity and later on he would come to her aid again, forcing her out of her hidey hole so she can get to actually helping her children. And protecting her while she was in her seedpod form when no one else would.

He slew the Volcanic Titans in aqshy freeing many of the weaker races from thier tyranny.  He found the first elven survivors and brought them into his cities, protected them. As he is not racist.

Even in the beginning of the age of chaos, sigmar did try to save his people. Whatever they called for his aid, he went personally. Casting back daemon legion after daemon legion.  But it was a futile effort, as the very realms themselves were being devoured by chaos.

He makes mistakes, but he tries to eventually correct those mistakes. 

Well that's just me rambling.

 

 

Edited November 8, 2020 by xking

[Matt Effect]

Apologies if this has been answered but do we know what happened to Slaanesh? Is he still chained up, released or did he give birth to him self? 

[Gaz Taylor]

4 hours ago, King Under the Mountain said:

I speak for all Dwarfs everywhere.

"Great just what we needed....more Elf Gods"

Now the question is, will there be a Durandin book and will it include Hashut 😁

[xking]

54 minutes ago, Matt Effect said:

Apologies if this has been answered but do we know what happened to Slaanesh? Is he still chained up, released or did he give birth to him self? 

He is still imprisoned, but he gave birth to a new entity that may end up freeing him.  Most likely going to be a new character model.