Teclis and dispelling Endless Spells

[LuminethMage]

I'd like to know what people think about Teclis auto-dispelling ability (part of "Discs of the Aelimentiri"). The exact wording on the Warscroll is: 

"In your hero phase, in addition to casting 1, 2 or up to 4 spells, this model can automatically dispel 1 endless spell (do not roll 2D6)."

Does this ability overrule the limitation of Wizards only being able to dispel endless spells at the start of their hero phase? 

 

[EMMachine]

2 hours ago, LuminethMage said:

I'd like to know what people think about Teclis auto-dispelling ability (part of "Discs of the Aelimentiri"). The exact wording on the Warscroll is: 

"In your hero phase, in addition to casting 1, 2 or up to 4 spells, this model can automatically dispel 1 endless spell (do not roll 2D6)."

Does this ability overrule the limitation of Wizards only being able to dispel endless spells at the start of their hero phase? 

 

I don't think so, the rule only states that he can dispell 1 endless Spell automaticly without rolling, not that you can dispell more than one.

To override the limitation there must be a written line "and can dispell more than one endless spell each round" or something like that.

Edited October 28, 2020 by EMMachine

[LuminethMage]

42 minutes ago, EMMachine said:

I don't think so, the rule only states that he can dispell 1 endless Spell automaticly without rolling, not that you can dispell more than one.

To override the limitation there must be a written line "and can dispell more than one endless spell each round" or something like that.

That’s not what I meant, sorry if what I wrote was unclear. I meant does it override the “at the start” part. Normally a Wizard must dispel endless spells at the start of the hero phase. Not during the hero phase. 

[EMMachine]

It's possible that it needs an FAQ.

I would use the case of the Myrmourn Banshee, from the Nighthaunt Battletome for reference.

Quote

Q: I have a question regarding the Myrmourn Banshees ability ‘Spell-eaters’ and its interaction with endless spells, specifically the part of the rule which reads: “Once in each of your hero phases, if this unit is within 6" of an endless spell, this unit can attempt to dispel the endless spell in the same manner as a Wizard.” Can this ability be used at any time during the hero phase?

A: No, it must be used at the start of the hero phase (as Wizards can only attempt to dispel at the start of the hero phase).

I would say that the only point of the Ability is, that you do not roll to dispell.

[LuminethMage]

Makes, sense, difference there it says "in the same manner as a Wizard". But yeah, I'll see if I get an official reply. I'm fine either way, I just saw this promoted as being a thing by several people (Teclis being able to dispel at any point), whereas other think it's clear that he isn't able to do that. 

[EMMachine]

5 hours ago, LuminethMage said:

Makes, sense, difference there it says "in the same manner as a Wizard". But yeah, I'll see if I get an official reply. I'm fine either way, I just saw this promoted as being a thing by several people (Teclis being able to dispel at any point), whereas other think it's clear that he isn't able to do that. 

The Myrmourn Banshees need that phrase because they aren't Wizards.

Teclis doesn't need it because he is a Wizard. The point is the point when Endless Spells are dispelled is give by the Endless Spell rules and should most likely prevent that an Endless Spell is cast and dispelled in the same phase to prevent negative effects.

[LuminethMage]

I get that, but most of the exceptions go around things which are in place to avoid negative effects. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate your reply, but at this point I'm not convinced this is the only or correct interpretation. Now because it's iffy, personally I'll treat it as if it's only at the start of the hero phase. 

Edited October 29, 2020 by LuminethMage

[Marcvs]

It is the same rule as the lord of change and, afaik, the lord of change is generally played as being able to dispel an endless spell with this ability during the hero phase (so not necessarily at the beginning). I would play Teclis in the same way

[EMMachine]

3 hours ago, LuminethMage said:

I get that, but most of the exceptions go around things which are in place to avoid negative effects. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate your reply, but at this point I'm not convinced this is the only or correct interpretation. Now because it's iffy, personally I'll treat it as if it's only at the start of the hero phase. 

1 hour ago, Marcvs said:

It is the same rule as the lord of change and, afaik, the lord of change is generally played as being able to dispel an endless spell with this ability during the hero phase (so not necessarily at the beginning). I would play Teclis in the same way

The problem is Teclis, Lord of Change and Myrmourn Banshees all use the same wording.

Myrmourn Banshees: Spell-eaters, sentence 4

Quote

Once in each of your hero phases, if this unit is within 6" of an Endless Spell, this unit can attempt to dispell the endless spell in the same manner as a wizard

Lord of Change, Spell-eater

Quote

Once per turn, in your hero phase, you can pick 1 endless spell within 18" of this model. That endless spell is dispelled

Teclis, Discs of the Aelementiri

Quote

In your herophase, ..., this model can automatically dispel 1 endless spell (do not roll 2D6)

All of the abilities state that the ability is used "in your herophase" but we have the rule that Dispelling an Endless Spell is at the Start of the Herophase and in case of the Myrmourn Banshees they said that the ability has to be used at the start of the Herophase because it is the time when Endless Spells are dispelled.

Quote

Q: I have a question regarding the Myrmourn Banshees ability ‘Spell-eaters’ and its interaction with endless spells, specifically the part of the rule which reads: “Once in each of your hero phases, if this unit is within 6" of an endless spell, this unit can attempt to dispel the endless spell in the same manner as a Wizard.” Can this ability be used at any time during the hero phase?

A: No, it must be used at the start of the hero phase (as Wizards can only attempt to dispel at the start of the hero phase).

So why should the dispelling be at a diffent point for the Lord of Change and Teclis. The only difference is that they do not roll dice to dispell.

If they wanted to break the rule when the Endless Spell is dispelled I think there should be "and can dispell at any point of the Herophase instead of only at the start of the herophase".

If something will break a rule it has to be activly mentioned in the rule.

It's more a mistake that GW still uses "In your Herophase" for dispelling rules instead of "At the start of your Herophase" but still the "In your Herophase" doesn't override the "At the start of your Herophase of the dispelling" as shown with the Myrmourn Banshees.

Edited October 29, 2020 by EMMachine

[LuminethMage]

Well, people also argue that the spell eater ability works in the hero phase. From Aosshorts: 

In this context, the Darkfire Daemonrift is extremely powerful in Tzeentch hands using 2020 Destiny Dice to cast it. It can lead to an area of effect of D3+10 Mortal wounds (or more) to multiple enemy units. After this carnage, a Lord of Change can then simply pick it up off the table using Spell-eater as this rule is intentionally worded as in the Hero Phase rather than in the Start of the Hero Phase (90%). Contrast this with the distinct Myrmourn Banshees’ Spell-eaters wording, which is a dispel “in the same manner as a WIZARD” (rather than causing the Endless Spell to be “dispelled”).

https://aosshorts.com/author/nico/ Way down if you want to check by yourself. 

So it could be rather both are an exception. And it does state it explicitly in the rule because it says “In your hero phase”. With exactly the same logic. Now, I understand your distinction with the Banshee not being a Wizard. That’s why I said I won’t use it personally in that way, because the explanation makes sense. But you could still be wrong. 

[Diogenes]

Edit: Sorry, wrong ideas.

Edited January 16, 2021 by Diogenes

[Ningrael]

Remember that "hero phase start" is not a game phase.

The Teclis rule only says that during his hero phase he can unbind a spell.

So when you see how unbind a spell you look at the rule and it says that you should do it at the beginning of the hero phase

Teclis's warscroll only talks about things that work differently from other wizards:

1) Despite being able to cast 4 spells, he can only unbind one spell.

2)You don't need roll 2d6 to do it

The rest works as the normal rule