Sons of behemat are unsustainable

[Icegoat]

This army as a collector is not a sustainable army it is not an army you collect it is an army you buy once and that's it. 

The entire range is built of 2 kits that In itself is disastrous but that each kit cost so many in game points is a tragedy. I collect maggotkin and cities of sigmar. This means every month I realistically can buy a box of a new unit and add it in to one of my forces. I have what 50 plaguebearers, 50 chaos warriors 30 blighkings, a giant, maggots riders, chaos knights, beats of nurgle plague drones the list is endless and so are the possibilities of what to build and buy next and the combinations used .

Well if I was a mega gargant collector  what do i add? What new creature what new unit fits into my army? None. I can have what max 9 small giants. Now sold in boxes of 2 or I can have 3 mega gargant max. Now maybe their are some crazy people who will build 3 each of each variant of mega gargant but really? 

Sob is not about collecting and building it's the first of what are going to be many I believe gw releases one and done they got your 400 quid goodbye armies. I will be very interested to see how many years it's going to be until the next sons of behemat release. I think we will be waiting for a long while. How many people in 40k run pure knight lists and how many use them in conjunction with an imperium force? Sons of behemat have even less options than imperial knights in their book and far fewer kits.

[Icarion]

So imperial knight in 40k were unsustainable too? 

what a laugh.

They can do the exact same thing, character kits, alternate types/sizes even chaos gargant kits or upgrade sets. Imperial knights have had at least three codexs I can remember, each coming with brand new knight kits. You really have to stretch to find negative things now Icegoat, pity.

[Kramer]

Who cares? It’s not disastrous, it’s not unsustainable, it’s just not for you.

or for me, for that matter. 

but if you don’t want to keep adding to an army, if you don’t want to collect 50 plaguebearers,  50 warriors and 30 blight kings etc, than Sons of Behemat are amazing. 

if I didn’t dislike painting big models I’d might collect them. It would be great. Paint the two mega gargants that I like the most. Then convert up the 2x3 giants to be really individual. 
and when I finish, after over a year of lovingly painting them, because that how long it would take me at the minimum, I could put them in a display cabinet. And moving on to a next project. 

and plenty of room for expansions. A mega gargant that goes after hot pockets, ehh magmadroth eggs and developed ways to collaps tunnels and go underground, mega gargants that function as artillery pieces from the plains of hysh. Because those shiny elves hurt your eyes if you get to close. 
currently you can build three mega gargants from one kit. Nothing stops GW from adding three more with one kit if the army is a hit. 

Edited October 24, 2020 by Kramer

[Overread]

Why does it have to be "sustainable?"

In fact every army is unsustainable, you run out of things with every force. Smaller forces like Sons will "run out" of options faster than armies like Slaves to Darkness or Skaven, but that doesn't make Sons or Daughters of Khaine or Slaanesh "unsustainable" in a bad way. It just means there's more scope to have more models added later. 

Or to diversify and start another army. 

Sons also has the bonus that their key model can be allied into any AOS army. As a result I suspect many who build a Son's army might well collect two or more armies from different Grand Alliances and thus will get a Giant for each one. Thus ending up with being half way to 2K without even trying to build a Son's army. Adding a few more giants and one mega giant to that is trivial then and they've got a whole new army that works differently to the others. 

 

 

Icegoat you need to start considering that when someone asks if the glass is half full or half empty, you keep jumping on the idea that the glass could tip over and be totally empty. You need to start considering some positive angles. Heck are you even interested in collecting Giants? Misery begets yet more misery and if Warhammer and GW games bring you this much pain perhaps its time to consider Warmachine; Infinity; Malifaux; Warcaster; Dungeons and Dragons; Larping, Fishing or something. It's not healthy to attach this much negativity that you seem to show to a game/franchise that you engage with as a hobby. 

[SunStorm]

When Imperial Knights were released there was one kit that had two builds, but the different build was just a weapon option. That then grew through other options added in later (also through FW options). Early on it wasn't really a full army and a lot of people buying them were allying them into existing armies. 

I would imagine that in a few years there will be updated Gargant kits and (fingers crossed) some Forgeworld kits. 

For now i'm just enjoying an impressive new kit and they've provided me with the rules to use it alongside my existing armies. Couldn't really ask for more to be honest. 

[Greybeard86]

I think that AoS has been a lab for GW to test strategies. From "simplifying" the game, to release schedules.

Many factions in AoS have very limited ranges, not just SoB. Personally, I believe this is a sales strategy. They think they can sell more models by having people starting new armies instead of buying a few extra units for an existing one.

SoB may or may not be expanded going forward. Much like fyreslayers have a super limited range while we had release after release for sigmarines.

[novakai]

Not sure if it was design with this intent but mega Gargant kit has its basic body rig all on one spures I can see GW using that rig in the future for other mega size Gargants like what they did with the Bigger knights ( Dominus class). Their maybe chaos Gargants in the future too since they had a brief lore bit about them working with chaos Duardin.

[Maddpainting]

6 hours ago, Athrawes said:

So imperial knight in 40k were unsustainable too? 

what a laugh.

They can do the exact same thing, character kits, alternate types/sizes even chaos gargant kits or upgrade sets. Imperial knights have had at least three codexs I can remember, each coming with brand new knight kits. You really have to stretch to find negative things now Icegoat, pity.

They are WAY cheaper actually

Smaller SoB $125 for 2 https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Mancrusher-Gargants-2020
Smaller knights $75 for 2 https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Imperial-Knights-Armiger-Helverins-2018 

Big Giant for $195 https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Mega-Gargant-Warstomper-2020
Big Knight for $157 https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Knight-Warden-2017
Large knight for $170 https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Imperial-Knights-Knight-Castellan-2018 

Knights have just as much variance and if not more actually for far cheaper when looking at you only need 1 of the biggest knights and the bigger knights are the main, or you can have 1-9 (In 1-3 man units) of the smaller knights for literally $50 less for 66% less in cost. 

A Knight army with 1 Large, 2 big, and and 4 small is $477, that is 7 models
A SoB army with 1 of each leader and 3 Battleline smaller knights are $835 and this is for 7 models but only 6 are being played

That is a $358 difference, or a 75% higher cost, the Knight player (if you buy the correct models) can have 2 armies to 1 SoB army. 

So yes SoB is GROSSLY over costed and not sustainable for the hobbyist 

Edited October 24, 2020 by Maddpainting

[jeremym]

I f I had an extra 800$ USD id but the whole army tomorrow. 

[Greybeard86]

13 minutes ago, Maddpainting said:

That is a $358 difference, or a 75% higher cost, the Knight player (if you buy the correct models) can have 2 armies to 1 SoB army. 

So yes SoB is GROSSLY over costed and not sustainable for the hobbyist 

More like GW's marketing department thinks that this is the right choice based the current playerbase in AoS. They have years of experience selling knights, do you think they just forgot that and turned dumb to sell SoB?

Obviously SoB are very expensive, I guess they think AoS players have higher tolerance for overpriced centerpieces. Certainly, they release far more "large amazing" sculpts for AoS / fantasy than 40k.

[Maddpainting]

1 minute ago, Greybeard86 said:

More like GW's marketing department thinks that this is the right choice based the current playerbase in AoS. They have years of experience selling knights, do you think they just forgot that and turned dumb to sell SoB?

Obviously SoB are very expensive, I guess they think AoS players have higher tolerance for overpriced centerpieces. Certainly, they release far more "large amazing" sculpts for AoS / fantasy than 40k.

Well you can also look at the 10+ other 3rd party Giants that are just as big and are 1/8 the cost, not everyone cares if a model has 50 details compare to 20 details when it costs insane amount of money. 

I literally know many players (me included) was going to get the army (based of the old Giant cost and Knights cost) but when they upped the cost of the gargant and its bigger version for 200 we all decided not to. The old Gargant was to costed to begin with and then they make it higher? no.

This is GW not knowing the market and taking us for fools.

[Greybeard86]

5 minutes ago, Maddpainting said:

This is GW not knowing the market and taking us for fools.

I guess we'll have to wait and see at the next stockholders meeting. They obviously can make mistakes, but pricing decisions are not taken lightly in corporations of that size. I do think you should account for what I said if you want to keep drawing comparisons to knights.

[elfhead]

What is going on. Two threads in one day with the subject of just being plain negative about an army... I really don’t see the point in this. 

[Maddpainting]

3 minutes ago, elfhead said:

What is going on. Two threads in one day with the subject of just being plain negative about an army... I really don’t see the point in this. 

Sticker shock. Everyone was thinking 160 high end 170 for the Mega-Gargant and then they made the already over costed old Gargants higher costed and they are now only in dual packs when most just want 3 and not 4.

Edited October 24, 2020 by Maddpainting

[Baron Klatz]

Read OP's post again. He's not talking about price but that there's no expansion to this army past the initial range.

Which is kinda troggothing since that's the case for any army you buy all the units for.

Two fun ways of continuing this army  however is either focusing on the mercenary aspect and building them around another army or going through the lore and making a Mega-gargant from that if not making your own up. There's some on Twitter using Endless Spells as weapons that are great.

Bonus is magnetizing your Mega-gargants so you can keep flipping the parts and tribes around from just one or a few kits.

18 minutes ago, elfhead said:

What is going on. Two threads in one day with the subject of just being plain negative about an army... I really don’t see the point in this. 

 Feels like between price complaints and now the meta thing some people are trying to ride the negative wave.

It'll pass.

6 hours ago, SunStorm said:

I would imagine that in a few years there will be updated Gargant kits and (fingers crossed) some Forgeworld kits.

They filled the tome out with so many crazy kinds of Mega-gargants and lore of them growing into God-beasts that it feels all but certain it's to build up to that.

At the very least I imagine King Brodd growing into a new model.

[Icegoat]

18 minutes ago, Maddpainting said:

Sticker shock. Everyone was thinking 160 high end 170 for the Mega-Gargant and then they made the already over costed old Gargants higher costed and they are now only in dual packs when most just want 3 and not 4.

Exactly I think AoS very obviously sells less than 40k  the mega gargant are very expensive and the high cost is because less models will be sold. I dont think design costs mold splicing and plastic can expalin the huge discrepancy in price between the SoB army and literally every other army Gw sells. Its shocking. 

And reboxing and upping the price is the small giants that can be fielded in units of three in a box of 2 is absolutely shameful. 

[elfhead]

I get the frustration on the price, I find myself buying less because of it. But there are already threads on this were people have worded their frustrations in a very constructive way and looked at the situation from several angles. Resulting in a pretty good discussion. I don’t see the point of starting new threads which are mostly ment to complain and be negative. I don’t think that is a healthy development for this forum. 

[Sartxac]

7 hours ago, Overread said:

 

Sons also has the bonus that their key model can be allied into any AOS army. As a result I suspect many who build a Son's army might well collect two or more armies from different Grand Alliances and thus will get a Giant for each one. Thus ending up with being half way to 2K without even trying to build a Son's army. Adding a few more giants and one mega giant to that is trivial then and they've got a whole new army that works differently to the others. 

 

HI, Could be allied in competitive games? In a skyre army could be interestant.

[Overread]

29 minutes ago, Sartxac said:

HI, Could be allied in competitive games? In a skyre army could be interestant.

There is a single different named hero (leader) giant per grand alliance who can be allied into that grand alliance. So Chaos has one, Order etc... So yes Skaven could ally the Chaos named Gargant into their force if they wish. You only get one and it does exceed normal allies point limits for the game, but you can have one. 

 

[Baron Klatz]

I think for competitive that'd be the best combo. Warstomper is already the deadliest merc  of the three and Skyrye ranged tech & numbers could offset the obvious Mega-gargant weaknesses.

Plus as a merc he'd get this ability which I imagine would be nasty with Skaven following in his wake.

Plus with Skyrye you could kitbash him with all sorts of crazy warp-tech to show they tried to enhance their new ally to unleash on the realms.

I'd say asks the forum experts here:

 

[RandyRyan]

No they're not

[Greyshadow]

Oh gosh no. There were Gargant collectors even when there was only the Aleguzzler. There will be many who will kit bash all sorts of weird and wonderful armies of these guys. Have a look at what is appearing on Twitter.

Edited October 24, 2020 by Greyshadow

[SunStorm]

2 hours ago, Baron Klatz said:

At the very least I imagine King Brodd growing into a new model.

Our own King Brodd deserves no less!

[Lich King]

GW knows most people will never even want to collect a full SOB army. The reason for the release and super expensive model is because many people will only ever buy one to add to their collection . In they way GW can at least hit you with the 200$ for their return in investment and some profit down the line .

[Scythian]

I have a full Sons army of 2 Megan’s and 2 units of 3 Mancrushers. I hardly see them as limited or a waste of money. They’re exactly what I’ve always wanted. Low model count with easy rules. 

Edited October 25, 2020 by Scythian
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