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Chaos army built around new Chaos units only?


PiotrW

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Okay, here's a bit of a question / challenge for experienced Chaos players:

Playing Chaos in AoS isn't my first priority - I'm building a Skaven army, but they are their own thing... That said, I see that I'm slowly amassing a solid collection of Chaos stuff: all those Darkoath people, Warcry warbands, new Chaos monsters etc. And I'm wondering: could an army be built around them?

I initially thought about making a Slave to Darkness army, but I learned that none of the units I own actually counts as StD Battlelines. I'd need to pick up some Chaos Warriors / Marauders / Knights... the problem is, I'm not really enamoured with the old Chaos miniatures. Marauders are just... extremely dated, the regularly-available Knight and Warriors are a bit better, but also somewhat old. I could get the StD Start Collecting box - the monster-mounted Chaos Lord is very nice indeed. The Warriors in that box are okay (even though they have only one weapon configuration available) - but the Knights break my suspension of disbelief due the idea they are supposed to use their lances in close combat... And overall, aside from the Chaos Lord, I'm just not sold on the "big evil guys in full armour" visual for Chaos worshippers.

So, my question is: is it actually possible to build a Chaos list using the Chaos stuff I actually like: Darkoaths, Warcry crazies etc.? Here's what I have:

  • Darkoath Warqueen & Darkoath Chieftain
  • Theddra & the Godsworn Hunt
  • 3 Chaos warbands from Warcry (possibly 4, if I manage to get the Catacombs box)
  • Ogroid Myrmidon + Fomoroid Crusher + Mindstealer Sphiranx
  • Furies & Raptoryx
  • Gaunt Summoner

I also plan on keeping the Slaanesh warband from the coming WHU starter. If I have some spare money, I could add the Chaos Lord from Start Collecting! box, *maybe* the Chaos Warriors from the same box - I could also add some Daemonettes, Nurglings or Kairic Acolytes. Varanguard and Mutalith Vortex Beast are also a possibility.

Sooooo... could any Chaos-themed list legal for Matched play be made out of these? Any suggestions?

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1 hour ago, PiotrW said:

Okay, here's a bit of a question / challenge for experienced Chaos players:

Playing Chaos in AoS isn't my first priority - I'm building a Skaven army, but they are their own thing... That said, I see that I'm slowly amassing a solid collection of Chaos stuff: all those Darkoath people, Warcry warbands, new Chaos monsters etc. And I'm wondering: could an army be built around them?

I initially thought about making a Slave to Darkness army, but I learned that none of the units I own actually counts as StD Battlelines. I'd need to pick up some Chaos Warriors / Marauders / Knights... the problem is, I'm not really enamoured with the old Chaos miniatures. Marauders are just... extremely dated, the regularly-available Knight and Warriors are a bit better, but also somewhat old. I could get the StD Start Collecting box - the monster-mounted Chaos Lord is very nice indeed. The Warriors in that box are okay (even though they have only one weapon configuration available) - but the Knights break my suspension of disbelief due the idea they are supposed to use their lances in close combat... And overall, aside from the Chaos Lord, I'm just not sold on the "big evil guys in full armour" visual for Chaos worshippers.

So, my question is: is it actually possible to build a Chaos list using the Chaos stuff I actually like: Darkoaths, Warcry crazies etc.? Here's what I have:

  • Darkoath Warqueen & Darkoath Chieftain
  • Theddra & the Godsworn Hunt
  • 3 Chaos warbands from Warcry (possibly 4, if I manage to get the Catacombs box)
  • Ogroid Myrmidon + Fomoroid Crusher + Mindstealer Sphiranx
  • Furies & Raptoryx
  • Gaunt Summoner

I also plan on keeping the Slaanesh warband from the coming WHU starter. If I have some spare money, I could add the Chaos Lord from Start Collecting! box, *maybe* the Chaos Warriors from the same box - I could also add some Daemonettes, Nurglings or Kairic Acolytes. Varanguard and Mutalith Vortex Beast are also a possibility.

Sooooo... could any Chaos-themed list legal for Matched play be made out of these? Any suggestions?

You can build a list with Grand Alliance Chaos as your allegiance.  You'll have access to battleline options in every chaos faction, except "battleline if".  The only issue is that you don't currently own any of the battleline options, so you'll have to go buy 3 units.  Daemonettes and Kairic Acolytes both count as battleline.

You'll want a unit of daemons for the Gaunt Summoner to summon.

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26 minutes ago, meatpipeline said:

You can build a list with Grand Alliance Chaos as your allegiance.  You'll have access to battleline options in every chaos faction, except "battleline if".  The only issue is that you don't currently own any of the battleline options, so you'll have to go buy 3 units.  Daemonettes and Kairic Acolytes both count as battleline.

You'll want a unit of daemons for the Gaunt Summoner to summon.

Hmmm...

Okay then. My current thinking is that I could get the SC! box, use the Warriors from that box as 1 Battleline unit, then get a box of Kairic Acolytes and split them into 2 Battleline units more. Also, I could use my Furies as the summonable unit for the Gaunt Summoner - or, maybe, get 10 Daemonettes? And then, add the monsters and the WHU / Warcry warbands. And, of course, use the Chaos Lord from the SC! box as one of the leaders...

That way, I'd get an army that would be both Matched Play-legal and colourful. An alliance of Chaos cultists from all around the Realms: an armoured overlord with some cronies, a solid crowd of Tzeentch guys, as well as some smaller allies from other places, both human and mostrous. And the actual demons would remain in the background, ready to be summoned... Hmmm...

My question is: do people actually play "plain" Chaos? I don't think there are many additional options for such armies, such as those that are described in specific Battletomes?

Edited by PiotrW
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1 minute ago, PiotrW said:

My current thinking is that I could get the SC! box, use the Warriors from that box as 1 Battleline unit, then get a box of Kairic Acolytes and split them into 2 Battleline units more. Also, I could use my Furies as the summonable unit for the Gaunt Summoner - or, maybe, get 10 Daemonettes? And then, add the monsters and the WHU / Warcry warbands. And, of course, use the Chaos Lord from the SC! box as one of the leaders...

That way, I'd get an army that would be both Matched Play-legal and colourful. An alliance of Chaos cultists from all around the Realms: an armoured overlord with some cronies, a solid crowd of Tzeentch guys, as well as some smaller allies from other places, both human and mostrous. And the actual demons would remain in the background, ready to be summoned... Hmmm...

My question is: do people actually play "plain" Chaos? I don't think there are many additional options for such armies, such as those that are described in specific Battletomes?

I rarely see Grand Alliance lists when I'm browsing Tabletop TO.   They are generally less powerful, because they lose the powerful allegiance abilities in the allegiance-specific Battletomes.  It seems like it is generally more advantageous to use Allies instead of a Grand Alliance.

I do see Legion of Chaos Ascendant lists, but I wouldn't describe LoCA as a Grand Alliance army.

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2 minutes ago, meatpipeline said:

I rarely see Grand Alliance lists when I'm browsing Tabletop TO.   They are generally less powerful, because they lose the powerful allegiance abilities in the allegiance-specific Battletomes.  It seems like it is generally more advantageous to use Allies instead of a Grand Alliance.

I do see Legion of Chaos Ascendant lists, but I wouldn't describe LoCA as a Grand Alliance army.

All right. Tell me about this LoCA thing. Where are they described and what can they take?

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Legion of Chaos Ascendant is everything with the Chaos and Demon keyword. So it is all Chaos Demons like Furies, Demonettes, Bloodletters... and all the Greater Demons. Furthermore, you can also add some Verminlords as they also have the right keywords. However, in a Legion of Chaos Ascendant, you will not be able to play your Cultists, as you can only take demon units. 

If you want to play your cultists, the only army that synergises with cultists is Slaves to Darkness. If you take Ravagers subfaction, you are able to summon cultists from the Board Edge. If you play Cabalists, you can sacrifice Cultists for casting bonuses. Darkoath Chieftain and Warqueen both synergise pretty well with Cultists. Theddra is a pretty neat wizard for 70 points. She synergises especally good with Belakor, as both have a -1 to wound spell. There are many buffs to hit, but only very few for wound rolls. So -2 to wound is huge. 

About allegiance: If you use Slaves to Darkness, you`ll need some battleline. So you do not like big armored guys like Chaos Warriors, Chaos Knights or Chaos Chariots. There are only two more battlelines( Yeah, Varanguard, but Archaon is outta here): Marauders (ugly minis) or Marauder Horsemen. Perhaps they fit your idea. They are rather new and not heavily armored.

 

If you do not want to buy too many new minis, you might just go with Grand Alliance Chaos. In a Grand Alliance Chaos, Clanrats can be battleline. So you can run Clanrats along with the Cultists. Or Stormfiends and Chaos Knights. Although the allegiance abilites are rather weak, you can field all your minis together. Worth a try. 

 

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4 hours ago, Salyx said:

Legion of Chaos Ascendant is everything with the Chaos and Demon keyword. So it is all Chaos Demons like Furies, Demonettes, Bloodletters... and all the Greater Demons. Furthermore, you can also add some Verminlords as they also have the right keywords. However, in a Legion of Chaos Ascendant, you will not be able to play your Cultists, as you can only take demon units. 

If you want to play your cultists, the only army that synergises with cultists is Slaves to Darkness. If you take Ravagers subfaction, you are able to summon cultists from the Board Edge. If you play Cabalists, you can sacrifice Cultists for casting bonuses. Darkoath Chieftain and Warqueen both synergise pretty well with Cultists. Theddra is a pretty neat wizard for 70 points. She synergises especally good with Belakor, as both have a -1 to wound spell. There are many buffs to hit, but only very few for wound rolls. So -2 to wound is huge. 

About allegiance: If you use Slaves to Darkness, you`ll need some battleline. So you do not like big armored guys like Chaos Warriors, Chaos Knights or Chaos Chariots. There are only two more battlelines( Yeah, Varanguard, but Archaon is outta here): Marauders (ugly minis) or Marauder Horsemen. Perhaps they fit your idea. They are rather new and not heavily armored.

If you do not want to buy too many new minis, you might just go with Grand Alliance Chaos. In a Grand Alliance Chaos, Clanrats can be battleline. So you can run Clanrats along with the Cultists. Or Stormfiends and Chaos Knights. Although the allegiance abilites are rather weak, you can field all your minis together. Worth a try.

Thank you for ideas!

I have a question regarding Varanguard: I see that they can be used as Leaders? Warscroll Builder has them listed as something called "Knights of the Empty Throne". How does that work, then - they are a unit of three / six / nine / twelve riders serving as a collective Leader?

BTW. Warscroll Builder doesn't list a plain Gaunt Summoner for Slaves to Darkness, only Gaunt Summoner on Disk. Is that a mistake?

Oh, and Gaunt Summoner's summoning ability - does it work automatically? The warscroll doesn't mention any roll for it. Does it mean that Gaunt Summoner has, in practice, a free summonable unit built in? That sounds good... too good :D I'm wondering whether there's a catch?

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You're going to need battleline choices, though you actually get three with the start collecting box (2 units of 5 warriors, one of knights). From there you're probably going to be best served with ravagers for summoning cultists, though you'll get some amount of use for them in cabalists as sacrifices,  and despoilers gives some additional possibilities for the monsters, but will require at least one daemon prince to make use of most of the bonuses.

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6 hours ago, PiotrW said:

Thank you for ideas!

I have a question regarding Varanguard: I see that they can be used as Leaders? Warscroll Builder has them listed as something called "Knights of the Empty Throne". How does that work, then - they are a unit of three / six / nine / twelve riders serving as a collective Leader?

BTW. Warscroll Builder doesn't list a plain Gaunt Summoner for Slaves to Darkness, only Gaunt Summoner on Disk. Is that a mistake?

Oh, and Gaunt Summoner's summoning ability - does it work automatically? The warscroll doesn't mention any roll for it. Does it mean that Gaunt Summoner has, in practice, a free summonable unit built in? That sounds good... too good :D I'm wondering whether there's a catch?

 

You can take Varanguard as Heroes in the Knights of the Empty Throne allegiance. So they can get General Traits, can use Command Abilitiea and can take Artefacts. However, These can Only be used from a very limited list. Furthermore, a unit that has been killed, can return on a roll of 5+.

I would love to play that one, but sadly, Varanguard are so expensive. 

Gaunt Summoner in the recent Std battletome only comes on Disc. There is one on foot, but only in Tzeentch armies.

And yes, the Gaunt Summoner has a free summon, through He can only summon 5 Horrors and 10 of the other daemons after the last FAQ. 

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9 hours ago, CeleFAZE said:

You're going to need battleline choices, though you actually get three with the start collecting box (2 units of 5 warriors, one of knights). From there you're probably going to be best served with ravagers for summoning cultists, though you'll get some amount of use for them in cabalists as sacrifices,  and despoilers gives some additional possibilities for the monsters, but will require at least one daemon prince to make use of most of the bonuses.

I'd love to use Knights from the SC! box... but, as I mentioned, I have a problem with the lances. Seriously, if anyone explains to me how do these guys use them in close combat (and they *do* use them, because their warscroll doesn't say anything about a minimun range for them), I'll take them. Right now, I look at them and can't help thinking that they just don't make sense...

6 hours ago, Super_Prototype said:

Chariots are battleline- could use those and swap the crew for Warcry models?

Oh, interesting idea! I might look into it...

4 hours ago, Salyx said:

You can take Varanguard as Heroes in the Knights of the Empty Throne allegiance. So they can get General Traits, can use Command Abilitiea and can take Artefacts. However, These can Only be used from a very limited list. Furthermore, a unit that has been killed, can return on a roll of 5+.

I would love to play that one, but sadly, Varanguard are so expensive. 

Gaunt Summoner in the recent Std battletome only comes on Disc. There is one on foot, but only in Tzeentch armies.

And yes, the Gaunt Summoner has a free summon, through He can only summon 5 Horrors and 10 of the other daemons after the last FAQ. 

Thanks for the explanation re: Varanguard.

Gaunt Summoner comes only on Disk in StD??? Noooooooooooooooooooo...!!! I don't like it. But maybe I could use a Disk-less one as an Ally? Would that be legal?

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20 hours ago, PiotrW said:
  • Darkoath Warqueen & Darkoath Chieftain
  • Theddra & the Godsworn Hunt
  • 3 Chaos warbands from Warcry (possibly 4, if I manage to get the Catacombs box)
  • Ogroid Myrmidon + Fomoroid Crusher + Mindstealer Sphiranx
  • Furies & Raptoryx
  • Gaunt Summoner

You lack battleline, as you‘ve mentioned yourself. 
Apart from that you don‘t have the units it takes to not be wiped off the board by turn 3. ... you also don‘t deal dmg (well nothing in the S2D time really does)

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1 hour ago, PiotrW said:

I'd love to use Knights from the SC! box... but, as I mentioned, I have a problem with the lances. Seriously, if anyone explains to me how do these guys use them in close combat (and they *do* use them, because their warscroll doesn't say anything about a minimun range for them), I'll take them. Right now, I look at them and can't help thinking that they just don't make sense...

Oh, interesting idea! I might look into it...

Thanks for the explanation re: Varanguard.

Gaunt Summoner comes only on Disk in StD??? Noooooooooooooooooooo...!!! I don't like it. But maybe I could use a Disk-less one as an Ally? Would that be legal?

Check the books, but I think both Gaunt Summoners (disc and foot) have keyword Slaves to Darkness, so you can take either without using up Allies allowance- they're just not both in the same book.

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4 hours ago, Super_Prototype said:

Check the books, but I think both Gaunt Summoners (disc and foot) have keyword Slaves to Darkness, so you can take either without using up Allies allowance- they're just not both in the same book.

Interesting... They both do have that keyword on the warscrolls available through the free app, true. Nevertheless, non-Disk Gaunt Summoner isn't listed on the StD army list... Unfortunately, I don't own the StD battletome to verify?

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18 minutes ago, PiotrW said:

Interesting... They both do have that keyword on the warscrolls available through the free app, true. Nevertheless, non-Disk Gaunt Summoner isn't listed on the StD army list... Unfortunately, I don't own the StD battletome to verify?

As long as it has the keyword, it can be included in the army and be part of the Slaves to Darkness allegiance abilities, regardless of what book it's printed in (or if you've just got the warscroll off the site). 

By the same token, the foot Summoner (and anything marked Tzeentch) from the Slaves book can be included under the allegiance abilities in the Tzeentch book, because that allegiance only requires everything to share the Tzeentch keyword.

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Honestly, Cultist units are quite bad due to the fact that they simply can't get any of the four gods keywords which means that they don't benefit from the best allegiance abilities of the STD armies and they can't be included in god specific armies.

And even beyond that, their statlines are nothing special.

On the other hand, best battleline in StD are marauders, but their models are old and hideous.

So I run Cult units as Marauders. I use Splinter Fangs as Slaaneshi Marauders. Nice models and good rules, win-win.

As for Knights and Warriors, see if you can get some older models on ebay or the like. Rules wise they are nothing to write home about, but old models are nice. New ones are too much.

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Kairic Acolytes and Tsaangors are new sculpts and unconditional battleline if that helps you a bit.

You could also do a bit of proxying:

Ogroid Myrmidon => Ogroid Thaumaturge (though that model is brilliant)

A few warbands => Kairic Acolytes

Raptoryx => Screamer, or put a person on top and make Tzeenchy Marauder Horsemen

Furies => With some effort Tsaangor skyfires

The warbands can also proxy to Marouders quite well, and the Godsworn Hunt can easily fit in the Splintered Fang

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  • 1 month later...

Okay, so I've just been reading the Warhammer Community article on themed armies that could be done with Broken Realms rules and I saw this bit about Slaves to Darkness:

The Idolators can take any Cultist unit as Battleline.

And I went: "Whaaaaaat?"

This is a total gamechanger when it comes to my "Chaos army without boring Chaos core units" project. Not saying that this would lead to a strong army, but... heck, something to consider :)

I have some questions, then:

1. Do you guys think that picking up the BR: Morathi book is a good idea? Or are the rules inside going to be temporary - or incorporated into future battletomes?

2. Does picking up the StD battletome now make sense? Or, maybe, BR will lead to AoS 3.0 in a few months and a brand new StD battletome coming on its heels?

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1 hour ago, PiotrW said:

Do you guys think that picking up the BR: Morathi book is a good idea? Or are the rules inside going to be temporary - or incorporated into future battletomes?

If you only want it for the Slaves to Darkness rules, then no. The Idolators are... well the usual crude S2D design.

If you are into the Lore or any of the other featured factions then: yes!

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2 hours ago, JackStreicher said:

If you only want it for the Slaves to Darkness rules, then no. The Idolators are... well the usual crude S2D design.

If you are into the Lore or any of the other featured factions then: yes!

Well, I'm curious what's going on with Morathi, so I'm tempted to buy it anyway...

I'm just worried that whatever new rules for DoK or StD are there in the book, they'll get invalidated (or repeated) by some new battletomes appearing out of the blue in a few months. The book isn't exactly cheap...

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