Skarbrand Fiasco

[Bademeister]

Hey folks,

first things first. I am not a Khorne player. I play Death (everything except OBR) and  Ogors. I am helpless i want to ask you (Khorne players) for advice.

"That one guy" in my local store is playing Khorne. Its ok, i'm fine with that, but i don't like Skarbrand and the way he goes crazy with buffs, command abilities and so on.

With the the following list he wrecks me face. Some highlights: all 3 Bloodthirster are bubblewrapped in the Warriors and Reavers. Each standing next to the other. The Insensate Rage guy gets buffed by both Priets. He is also wearing the artefact to attack at the start of the combat phase. Now the show begins. So he gonna roll that 4+, uses 2 Command Points, one with the Unfettered Fury one and the other to attack twice with (my beloved) Skarbrand. So everbody is buffed by the Bloodsecrator, especially Skarbrand (who ddn't fight in the first Round). He is attacking 4 times with alle the guys. 6's with the Insenate Rage deamon rain down my units within 8", skarbrand doing his thing and throwing minimum of 16 Mortal Wounds on a 1+ (stupid ability) and some massive hits with his 2nd weapon, twice. Alltogether something aroung 44 Wounds. Most of the units die before they can do anything, don't forget all that things happen AT THE START of the combat phase. 

After he whiped the floor with my miniatures and proud i can try to fight back with the little which get left behind by his slaughter. 

I nearly forgot to mention that Skardbrand doing this 2 times in the 2nd battleround. So alltogether 88 Wounds in 4 activations.

Thats the point i can't understand how unbalanced a single model can be and thats why i need some advice, how t handle "that one guy" in my local store.

Thank you for reading and pointing with your finger at me while you can't stop laughing.

 

Allegiance: Khorne
- Slaughterhost: Reapers of Vengeance

Leaders
Bloodsecrator (120)
- General
- Command Trait: Mage Eater
- Artefact: Skullshard Mantle
Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage (270)
- Artefact: Khartoth the Bloodhunger
Bloodthirster of Unfettered Fury (270)
- Artefact: The Crimson Crown
Skarbrand (380)
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Bronzed Flesh
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Killing Frenzy

Battleline
5 x Blood Warriors (100)
- Goreaxes
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Reaver Blades
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Reaver Blades
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Reaver Blades
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Reaver Blades
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Reaver Blades

Battalions
Gore Pilgrims (140)
Tyrants of Blood (140)

Total: 1970 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 119

[lare2]

I'm sure you'll get some pointers here but did you intend this to be in the Chaos section?

[Bademeister]

Indeed, I make a double post. In chaos and death forum. Just to see the different reactions and advises 

[Scurvydog]

Skarbrand is the truest glass cannon in the game, but it seems your opponent is quite competitive and also knows how to use proper screening, so to compete with this, you will need to be rather sneaky as well, you wont beat that with any old beer and pretzels list.

The artifact only activates on a 4+ and allows the wearer to fight, this can then snowball in the tyrants battalion allowing other bloodthirsters to fight one after the other. Keep in mind here it is only 50/50 and the Thirster with the artifact also needs to be able to fight, so if you can engage Skarbrand alone, all you got to do is put 14 wounds on a 4+ save model, possibly 3+ if he got the bronzed flesh of on him.

You do not mention any of your lists, but at least a stonehorn with frostlord can be able to deal that kind of damage, especially with any kind of support ranged damage, like blood vultures or snowballs etc. For Ogors you could also consider a huskard on thundertusk with the mount trait that forces the opponent to fight last, that could really create some issues for his plans. You could also try a shooting build with the tyrant and artifact for +1 hit aura to ironblasters and leadbelchers. 

Saying you play death is also rather broad to give any specific advice, but if you play LoN or LoG you can always feed the bloodthirsters with chaff, or put a big block of reapers or skeletons in there and hold the line, if they die, summon them back at a grave. If you play FeC you can basically do the same thing with Terrorgheists, especially if fighting twice you should easily kill a Bloodthirster on average and you got better screens than he does. If you play Blisterskin you can fight first and cancel out his artifact too.

If you play pure nighthaunt it can get tricky,the best thing to do is screen as well and counter attack. Also remember Skarbrand can't fly and is slower than the others, I have played against him quite a bit and only really have issues when the Khorne player gets a good double turn, otherwise you know the exact threat range of Skarbrand and you might be able to exploit this with the far greater mobility of a nighthaunt army and engage where it suits you best. 

 

Edited October 21, 2020 by Scurvydog

[Marcvs]

a different angle would also be to consider why are you hitting that castle. From your description, it seems like all your opponent's army is concentrated to create that amount of synergy (and screening). Unless you are playing Knife to the heart, this leaves plenty of space to play the objective game.

Ogors have good speed and objective capping abilities, while death can normallly provide you with a lot of bodies. So, try to leave the castle alone and spread your army on as many objectives as possible. Bonus would be to also hold a sufficiently fast hammer to hit if needed.

This could/should evolve in two directions: a) your opponent will keep the castle together and use its might to reclaim one/two objective(s). Let him have it/them and keep moving around; b) your opponent will have to lose some of the synergies and spread his/her army. In that case you might be able to use your hammer to hit Skabrand (if you have the output to kill him in one go), a Bloodthirster (even bracketing them is good), some of the buff pieces or even take down a lot of his bodies, which will make it even harder for the opponent to play the objectives

[Bademeister]

When I said I could play everything in death faction accept OBR, I mean that I could go nearly everything you could imagine. 

3 Terrorgheist / Zombiedragon, 80 Ghouls, 27 Knights. 

80 skeletons, 20 GG, 2 Vampire Lords, 2 Necromancer, Arkhan. 

80 Chainrasp, 30 Grimghast, Olynder, 8 Banshees, 10 Harridans, 10 Hexwraith, Coach, Mourngul 

List is long. I tried different things before. Charging just one of them. Problem here they can pile in 6".

Shooting not enough in death faction. 

Casting, rerolls and - 1 because of the shrine, skulls and Bloodsecrator. 

Going for objectives just went wrong. I splitted my army to hold as much objectives as possible. He just shreds through them and holding the objectives and I can't get behind that castle. 

Just playing a passive and fast list, because there is no other way to handle it, seems very disappointing. Sure it will be victory but even Nagash needs some souls of dead units. That's not the way I like to play. 

[Liquidsteel]

Gristlegore terrorgheist (general) fights first when he charges, 3 inch maw can bite over the top of a screen. Can fight twice so another pile in.  If you survive and he kills you next turn, or kills you before you fight, you still get to attack twice (all heroes).

 

You can also pressure the board with summoning.

Edited October 21, 2020 by Liquidsteel

[Nirvana]

8 hours ago, Bademeister said:

 

List is long. I tried different things before. Charging just one of them. Problem here they can pile in 6".

They might be able to pile in 6" but they still have to be within 3" to pile in.  They get extra movement, not extra range on the base rule allowing them to pile in.  I was under the impression Icefall Yetis were the only ones capable of piling in 6" out as their rule says specifically says so.  Even with that rule yetis aren't great.  Otherwise, give him a conga line and remove models so they cannot attack a second time.  

With Death, I usually play Sacrament and debuff the heck out of my enemies.  I would also use spells like prison of grief, fading vigour (d6 charge), spectral grasp (half movement), etc. from death mages.  Also, using Arkhan to kill screening units allows you to resurrect destroyed units if they are near grave sites.  Snag a couple of cheap zombie units so you can take advantage of your own screen.  You may have more drops than him but multiple units of cheap zombies allows you to screen your own army.  He did 20 wounds to something?  Shoot, now he has nothing left to attack in his second activation.  Put your grave sites near places you know his screens will go - objectives, etc but not so far you can't reach them and not so close he is going to camp on that and an objective.

With Night, it would be fun if you let him come to you and you could set up in ambush and force him to spread out.  A couple of key units in his back field will force him to hold back.  Especially if they are riding on dragons.  You can also try a coven throne as Beguile prevents a unit from attacking them if you roll higher than their Bravery on 3d6.  Just have to make sure he doesn't gang up on you.  The mortal wounds from the spectral host are nice.

[Ghoooouls]

On 10/22/2020 at 2:16 AM, Nirvana said:

They might be able to pile in 6" but they still have to be within 3" to pile in.  They get extra movement, not extra range on the base rule allowing them to pile in.  I was under the impression Icefall Yetis were the only ones capable of piling in 6" out as their rule says specifically says so.  Even with that rule yetis aren't great.  Otherwise, give him a conga line and remove models so they cannot attack a second time.  

With Death, I usually play Sacrament and debuff the heck out of my enemies.  I would also use spells like prison of grief, fading vigour (d6 charge), spectral grasp (half movement), etc. from death mages.  Also, using Arkhan to kill screening units allows you to resurrect destroyed units if they are near grave sites.  Snag a couple of cheap zombie units so you can take advantage of your own screen.  You may have more drops than him but multiple units of cheap zombies allows you to screen your own army.  He did 20 wounds to something?  Shoot, now he has nothing left to attack in his second activation.  Put your grave sites near places you know his screens will go - objectives, etc but not so far you can't reach them and not so close he is going to camp on that and an objective.

With Night, it would be fun if you let him come to you and you could set up in ambush and force him to spread out.  A couple of key units in his back field will force him to hold back.  Especially if they are riding on dragons.  You can also try a coven throne as Beguile prevents a unit from attacking them if you roll higher than their Bravery on 3d6.  Just have to make sure he doesn't gang up on you.  The mortal wounds from the spectral host are nice.

 

The bloodthirster of unfettered fury command ability allows them to pile in an extra 3" AND be eligible to fight within 6" instead of the usual 3.

[BaylorCorvette]

As a Legion of Blood and Khorne player here are my thoughts:

At the end of the day, remember this is an objective based game. That list you posted of his has decent damage by not really any staying power. Be very strategic about your fights, do not overcommit yourself to fights, and by that I mean charging too many things in a single turn.

Now that Dolorous Guard is official from GW, if you want to be a real pain, play Legion of Blood, ally in DG (two units of 5 Hexwraiths) and have them be bodyguards for your VLoZD General. Give your VLoZD the Aura of Dark Majesty (-1 To Hit) and then either Soulbound Garments (always re-rolling 1 to save) or Orb of Enchantment. My personal route would be give the VLoZD the Soulbound Garments and then a Vampire Lord Flying Horror the Orb of Enchantment. Have the Hero with the Orb of Enchantment charge in on Skarrbrand or another Hero you want to neutralize for a turn and nuke it down without any sort of retaliation. If you're not familiar with Dolorous Guard, basically it allows you to shrug off wounds and mortal wounds from you general to near by Hexwraiths on a 2+.

[Jaxler]

If he is running a deathstar build, you need to ask yourself a question. Can I kill it in combat on the opposing player's terms? Considering it is a deathstar list, odds are no, but if you play bone reapers you could conceivably pull it off. 

 

So, you've accepted that you cannot kill it if it operates as a deathstar. This means you need the use the classic method to dismember a deathstar. Force units apart. Make them play the field. Keep your units spread apart so no direction is worth advancing in. He can kill stuff, that's fine, but If he kills 200 points a turn with his whole army, by the end of it you still are on the board and you could be up on points. 

Ranged options are invaluable here, (and to a lesser extent, magic). If you can pick out valuable models his star will fall apart. 

 

Most of all though, force him to choose between splitting up his army, or falling behind on points. From there you can pick apart his separated assets.  Of course you could always just go shooting and murder skarbrand turn one also. 

 

Basically, whatever you do, be honest with yourself, and ask if your army can kill the desthstar head on. If not, ask yourself how to minimize it's strength (power as a group, synergy with other units, protection due to screens) and maximize its weaknesses (lack of force projection/control across a 6 foot board, reliance on other units to perform, speed hindered by screen speed, lack of protection from shooting.) 

 

As bonereapers you can potentially take this head on. 2 catapults should kill skarbrand if they get to fire twice, and every dead thirster is a huge hole in his list. (Each one is a third of his killing power) With mortarch of the bone bulge, your guard get 3+3+6+4+ save if theyre next to a harvester, with the 4+ being unrendable, and his chaff become replacements for your bone boys. 

 

As LoN you have access to plenty of fast objective grabbers, reusable fodder, and powerful units that can go toe to toe with isolated thirsters. Place your sites around the table so you can easily summon back boys, and so they can only ever shut down one with ease. Play map control and try to force engagements you can recover from. 

 

Flesh eaters out do the killy monsters. A grislegore Goulking on giest goes first, hits twice, and is frankly going to murder skarbrand before he even swings. If he does, and kills the king, the kill will just fight one last time and kill the thirster. Your ghiests can out munch thirsters. 

As night haunt you need to play the board and avoid combat. You are faster than him. Abuse this. Dreadblades are perfect for porting guys across the board to nani his poor army and force him to redirect attention, as well as for snagging objectives. If you play scorched earth and have a dreadblade or two, you auto win vs that army comp. Abuse your mobility and play object control while feeding him units you are ok with losing. Speed is your only big edge against them, use it. 

As tomb kings, uuuuh... cry? 

 

Edited November 14, 2020 by Jaxler

[Lord Krungharr]

I used to play the Tyrants of Blood army, now I play Ogors (and BoC, and soon, SoBs).  I don't know about Death stuff, but for Ogors, Leadbelchers and Slaughtermasters and Stonehorns should help, and probably like 6 Frost Sabres with a Hunter.  The latter can deepstrike to nail at least 1 of those pesky Slaughterpriests/Bloodsecrators, and hopefully the Hunter combined with Leadbelchers and lucky spells or Slaughtermaster cauldron MW auras can help whittle down some other little heroes or bracket a Bloodthirster.

When targeting Bloodthirsters, go for the one with the Khartoth.  Those bracket.  Skarbrand gets better when he takes more damage.

When using trampling charges, sometimes you can eliminate the little screen units with 2 or 3 charges, and then pile in to other units close to them, or where they used to be.  If you can get to the Unfettered Fury Thirster or Skarbrand first with a Frostlord on Stonehorn, they gonna die!  And any Stonehorn unit should be able to survive the Unfettered Fury Thirster, even twice.  They're not all that great (especially if they have Greasy Deluge on them).

Now they probably will be able to summon another Thirster at some point with all those feeble Blood Tithe units.  But hopefully the Ogors will be dominating objectives, as that's a major strong point they have with Might Makes Right.  

Good luck, and BATTLE REPORT!!!