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PiotrW

Random questions: Flesh-Eaters and Neferata

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Hello, folks!

If you don't mind, I have two random questions as someone who has not really dipped his feet in the GA Death side of AoS. Could you help me out?

1. I recently got myself the Grymwatch warband for Underworlds, because I found them... alright, strangely cute :) And now I'm curious: what's up with these Flesh-Eater people? Do they all really see themselves as high nobility? How come they are all so deluded? Do any of them know they are actually eating people and running around naked?

2. I haven't really considered making a Death army, but there's one model that caught my attention: Neferata. She looks cool! Speaking mostly theoretically, is there a way of building a good-looking army around her? From what I checked, she aligns with vampires and skeletons - but these models are all quite old and not that attractive visually... Are there any modern Death models that could serve as an army for Neferata?

Please advise, good TGA people :)

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As far as building a vampire army I'd hold out awhile as rumor pics and teases seem to be leading into an inevitable Soulblight (vampire) release. 

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19 minutes ago, Vasshpit said:

As far as building a vampire army I'd hold out awhile as rumor pics and teases seem to be leading into an inevitable Soulblight (vampire) release. 

Oh! So, finally, some modern vampire models? That would be interesting...

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6 hours ago, PiotrW said:

Oh! So, finally, some modern vampire models? That would be interesting...

Only rumours currently but I'd still hold out at least a while. 

To answer your FEC questions:

Long ago Nagash had his most faithful vampire servant, the Bloodrose Prince who for some reason turned against him, Nagash cursed him to look like on the outside how he is on the inside (ugly because he's evil), imprisoned him in a tower full of mirrors for all eternity so he could look at his hideous form. This understandably sent the vampire mad and eventually this madness led to the delusion that things were back to how they were before he turned against Nagash. 

Luckily for our crazy Prince, Sigmar attacked Shyish and accidentally freed him. The Bloodrose Prince, now known as the Carrion King, started infecting other vampires who became his followers, they now have the same delusion and also get mutated to look more like their liege but see themselves as benevolent Kings or leaders of great nations. These Abhorrents then draw human cannibals to themselves and these guys share the delusion and mutate into Ghouls and then the Abhorrents (Ghoul Kings and Archregent) make other Ghoul Kings who go off and form their own kingdoms and repeat the cycle of infecting with the delusion. 

Not all of them think they're knights as the Blisterkin see themselves as a cult of the sun going about to spread their faith. I think ghouls do get a small glimpse every now and again that somethings not right but it doesn't last long. 

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1 hour ago, Tikhunt said:

To answer your FEC questions:

For the old school version from the world that was, search for Ushoran...

brother to neferata, tried to hang out with her top dogs, got on her wrong side and she kinda high school mobbed him into madness and got him wrecked by orks. 
 

Haven‘t read that much AoS lore, but the local king emits a strong mental corruption that will turn people into beast...iirc there is a story of knights, fighting against undead monsters time and time again in a grueling struggle, loosing themselves and getting corrupted by the maddening influence, ending up being the monsters they once fought. Still seeing themselves as heroic defenders of righteousness on a crusade to free the lands of evil, sometime catching a glimpse of what they have become in the reflection of their blade or the dying eyes of one of their victims...
pretty nasty stuff, especially vampires are susceptible to the corruption, so they tend to either stay far away or kill them off quickly, of course risking to become new kings.

to become stronger you’ll haven’t eat a lot and be acknowledged by your liege, their‘s is talk of kinda vampiric Blood rituals, lies of course. You‘re invited to dine with your king after a successful battle, where he congrats you for your valor and shares a nice feast with you. Toasts are spoken, fealty is declared, all very merry and knightly. Afterwards you’ll feel kinda strange, about to burst with pride, but wake up feeling awesome and chivalrous...

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Thank you! FCE seem to be an interesting faction, then. Kind of likeable :)

Question re: Nagash. I've read some fluff about him and it seems to me that he kind of... evolved since his Warhammer Fantasy days? Back in the Old World, be seemed to be this sadistic, megalomaniacal monster. But in AoS, he seems to be calmer, quite lawful (if lawful evil), prone to issuing ironic judgements etc. Godhood served him well?

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7 hours ago, PiotrW said:

Thank you! FCE seem to be an interesting faction, then. Kind of likeable :)

Question re: Nagash. I've read some fluff about him and it seems to me that he kind of... evolved since his Warhammer Fantasy days? Back in the Old World, be seemed to be this sadistic, megalomaniacal monster. But in AoS, he seems to be calmer, quite lawful (if lawful evil), prone to issuing ironic judgements etc. Godhood served him well?

He can still be all of those things, I think him being in the spotlight so much in AOS 2.0 has led to his characterisation being more fleshed out rather than just a change in personality. He feels like less of an evil dark Lord stereotype and more like a person with his own flair. 

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9 hours ago, PiotrW said:

Godhood served him well?

Not quite sure... I think he was pretty awesome in WHF. The person who invented necromancy, the one who defied death by will alone, the one who would not give up and would not back down, no matter what weapon did a last second number on him.

even then it was lore, that he lost himself in the resurrections, that he forgot more and more, hid fragments of his mind in artifacts to keep them save...and when he managed to assemble himself far enough to get off his boney butt, the whole world was in trouble.

in AoS he kinda has the saturday morning cartoon villain style, luckily not to the failbaddon the armless degree. He gets things done.

 I also don’t like the theory that he fragmented, took on aspects of other Death gods or projected aspects of himself into his mortarchs. But maybe „the undying king“ doesn’t really show him at his finest...

->any good read ups in the AoS lore for him? I haven’t really bothered to do my reading yet, rather pull out the old gotrek&felix by king or the vampire wars

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Hmmmm...

One more question, guys: what are the OBR, exactly? I only know they are some sort of super-skeleton army. Is there more to their story?

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2 minutes ago, PiotrW said:

Hmmmm...

One more question, guys: what are the OBR, exactly? I only know they are some sort of super-skeleton army. Is there more to their story?

They're Nagash's idea of a society when he takes over all the Realms. 

Constructs made out of various bones and filled with fragmented souls hand picked to fulfill the purpose given to them by Nagash. 

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On 10/16/2020 at 12:11 PM, PiotrW said:

Hmmmm...

One more question, guys: what are the OBR, exactly? I only know they are some sort of super-skeleton army. Is there more to their story?

They are essentially the Roman empire but for death. Extremely disciplined, never running to battleshock, think shield walls and phalanx formations. On the table they play as rock solid elite guard supported by weakish melee heros that bolster their offensive and defensive capabilites. Check out Hey Woahs videos on YouTube if you want a more a good overview, or 2+ tough for lore. 

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Is there any interesting lore tied to them? Or is it an army of personality-free skeletons?

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On 10/16/2020 at 6:11 PM, PiotrW said:

Hmmmm...

One more question, guys: what are the OBR, exactly? I only know they are some sort of super-skeleton army. Is there more to their story?

Ossiarchs are basically a golem style army. 

Nagash creates them by basically grinding up bone magically and reforming it into new bodies. These bodies then get brought to life by being given real souls, so its not the same as the typical necromancer animating skeletons who exist by the will of the necromancer, but are otherwise without their own life. Ossiarchs are fully alive, but twisted. The fragmented souls that form them are chosen for specific traits - so a soldier might have many soldiers souls bound together to give them supreme fighting skills of many years experience. Some, like the 4 headed warriors, even have so much that they can flip between totally different styles of fighting. 

Because they are alive they do create cities and settlement;s they do "live" as much as they can. Thus they do have art and craftsmanship; only instead of decades of study they'd be made from the souls of craftsmen. 

That said they are also somewhat mechanical/obsessive in their outlook on life, because they weren't born but constructed, often for a purpose. Giving them quite a blinkered view. They also take on traits of their many souls and the bones they are formed of. Ossiarchs formed from animal bone are often more wild/rabid in battle than those formed from other types of bone. 

 

Nagash also gives them purpose and can impose his will upon them, though for the most part they are free willed, they just only really have a will to follow Nagash's intentions. They were created to be his ultimate army and people. A people he fully controls, who exist because of him. Unlike mindless skeletons or wilful vampires and ghosts always seeking to release his control over them. 

 

 

In the Realms they are a bit like gangsters. They'll offer your settlement protection, but only in exchange for a Tithe of resources. These resources being bones, but also souls. They'll also twist the deal so that it is "unfair" and the settlement might well fail to pay, or might have to war to get enough bodies to appease the Ossiarchs. Because if you don't pay they come to collect and each person is a source of soul and bone. 

Also, because they are constructs, they don't have to obey normal creation laws; their trebuchet is a semi-living war engine that moves on its own. They have huge harvesters that stride the battlefields, spewing out bones from their mouths and grasping up all the little bits of bone for the harvest. 

 

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Thanks for an explanation! They seem like total abominations. :)I shall enjoy smashing them... *swings a Sygmarite hammer*

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Ossiarchs are pretty great.  As mentioned, they are 'free willed', but constructed in such a way that their only will is to do as Nagash wishes, so that freedom only extends to coming up with creative ways to better serve him.  Their hybrid souls are also interesting.  The lower ranking an ossiarch is, the more fragmented their soul, combined from the few useful bits and pieces that could be teased from dozens or hundreds of less worthy souls.  Teams or regiments of lower ranked ossiarchs can also often share the same hybrid soul to allow them to work in synch more easily.  Higher ranked ossiarchs are made from higher quality souls, which means fewer useless bits need to be removed and what is useful relies more on the rest.  The soul of a great general's command ability, for instance, might rely on the interplay of early childhood experiences that made them stubborn and unrelenting AND combat training as a young adult AND years of experience as a soldier AND the personal attention of a skilled mentor AND time spent studying the great battles of old AND years of experience commanding armies so to transfer that souls command experience into the new ossiarch all of those pieces of what made them who they are in life have to be maintained largely intact, and great care must be made to excise the undesired bits (faith in other gods, a sense of honor and mercy, love for their homeland and family) and insert more desired traits (commitment for nagash, hatred for his enemies, disdain for all life, familiarity with the particular types of soldiers and war machines that will be placed under their command, understanding of the combat tactics and abilities of the enemies they will march against, etc), without disrupting the overall shape of the soul that made it worthy of being used in a high ranked ossiarch to begin with.

In this way, the higher ranked an ossiarch is, the fewer souls were used to make its composit soul, and the more of its previous living identities show through.  Basic line troops will have shards of souls from dozens or hundreds of warriors while the elite necropolis stalkers are made from the souls of exactly four legendary warriors each.  Only the very pinnacle of the ossiarch hierarchy are made from individual souls with identities that carry over unbroken from their life to their new unlife, including the Likes of Katakros, Zandtos, and maybe Vokmortian - afaik his origins are somewhat unclear.

...

FEC are a really interesting and compelling faction narratively.  Unfortunately their model range is exceptionally narrow, and the core concept of their delusions really doesn't show up in the models themselves.  FEC armies can be fun and effective as is, but they could really benefit from some new models and units to add a bit more character and variety.

...

Neferata is a cool character, albeit one criminally underutilized in the lore.  She has a signature subfaction in the Legions of Nagash book that isn't terrible, but I would hold off pending more news of the long rumored Soulblight book.  Whatever form it eventually takes, Neferata is likely to feature heavily there.

...

Nagash has suffered some pretty highly varied characterizations stemming from different authors with different takes and multiple retcons through the years.  He can be a pretty compelling character when he's allowed to be clever and commanding, but as often as not he's kind of a silly cartoon villain.  On a positive note, he has set the tone and driven the overall narrative for Age of Sigmar pretty much since the release of 2nd edition, so at the very least he's a very prominent character who keeps the undead overall at the forefront of the game's story.

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On a sidenote. just started listening to Neferata : Dominion of Bones... 
Not really a fan after 2/10 hours. Some backstory and explanation went on for ever( I get it, the tower is in ruins, but can’t crumble, stop telling me that)

there Neffi is depicted as slick scheming and cunning, rises within traps within subterfuge... pretty cool, then she fights a bunch of Khorne dudes like an ork, no grace, no Style, not fast as s shadow. 

the old world books were more to my liking, of I‘m too old for the new fluff

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There's better new fluff than that.  GW's writers didn't know how to write neferata most of the time even in the old days, that's not really a new problem.

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3 hours ago, Sception said:

GW's writers didn't know how to write neferata most of the time even in the old days

I did like the 3rd Edition description of the Spy-Queen...

a spider in a world spanning net of corruption and influence, playing far away kingdoms like puppets on a string, unseen till it´s too late.

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9 hours ago, Honk said:

On a sidenote. just started listening to Neferata : Dominion of Bones... 
Not really a fan after 2/10 hours. Some backstory and explanation went on for ever( I get it, the tower is in ruins, but can’t crumble, stop telling me that)

there Neffi is depicted as slick scheming and cunning, rises within traps within subterfuge... pretty cool, then she fights a bunch of Khorne dudes like an ork, no grace, no Style, not fast as s shadow. 

the old world books were more to my liking, of I‘m too old for the new fluff

Like others have said, Neferatas books aren't great. They're the only novels for Age of Sigmar I've read so far other than the Realm gate Wars that I dislike. 

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2 hours ago, Tikhunt said:

Like others have said

Yes, the old books were just on another level...
the Nagash trilogy, vampire wars , the red duke, Necromancer or even Gilead’s Blood, Felix&Gotrek (only from King 😅)

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