fight against kharadron

[jeanfluflu]

Hey guys.

I recently got baited into a game at my local gamestore, it was 2v2 with 1000pts each.
I was playing stormcast of course with a fairly soft list and was alongside my good friend who's playing khorne and we were up against a duo made up of kharadron and sylvaneth.

my list was the following:
lord aquilor
knight venator
2x5 hunters
palladors
3 longstrike
3aetherwings
6 gryph-hounds

And dear god that game was frustrating, sylvaneth had 6 kurnouth, a treelord and a couple of characters and dryads and the kharadron guy got a frigate and a smaller boat as well as some units.
He deployed in a small corner far from reach from anyone, we got the first turn i tried to TP my palladors and aquilor close to his boats but failed the charges (which cost us te game).
I managed to kill a branch witch and deal a couple of wounds on the kurnouth as my friend charges in with his troups.

First turn for them the entire khorne army got melted, the dwarf TP his boats and the firepower he got simply anihiliated at least 700pts in one turn, treelord made sure the fight we could win got resolved last (thus making them a lost) and the rest is just pure ******.
the 2+ bomb that deals mortal wound as long as it success got the deamon prince of my friend and the kurnouth decimated the bloodreavers/gryph-hounds and took the points back from us.

Anyway we quit the game after turn 2 where the game was obviously not winnable, i think we killed 2 kurnouth (who got healed and resurected) one mage and that's all while on their sides the entire khorne army was gone except 2 heroes and i lost most of my heavy punching units (oh and the longstrike got nullified because of the woods).

I know the frustration i got clearly comes from the fact that we played against very competitive lists but the matchup seems too perfect for them,  i can't imagine how to counterplay those nasty dwarf, i mean they have it all it seems without any downside:
low drops, insane firepower, TP, big rend and huge deal of MW...etc.

I'd like to have your thoughts on kharadron, what are your tactics and tips against them?
Is it winnable for stormcast or is it simply too OP and GG go next, i'll wait for my new battletome?

Edited October 13, 2020 by jeanfluflu

[Juicy]

I feel like khorne just got it bad against 2 shooting guys. If he had included be lakor he had a field day;). 
 

as for sce i had succes with my skyborne slayer list against a pretty strong ko competitive list and i recon our one drop list nukes the ko list out of the window. Lord ordinator with ballista is great against ko aswell. To beat them you got to field 2/3 units that can bring the hurt like longstrikes/ ballista,s or a late game prime(he dies after like always to). 

[jeanfluflu]

thanks for the reply, i got the same feeling as you.

Not gonna lie my friend was on the verge of leaving the table after the first enemy shooting phase....BoKis an old battletome and it's difficult to play with this army against shooting opponents hat can TP.

On our side I think with some dangerous shooting entries or surprise TP we have the tools to deal with some of the dangers KO opposes us (kill the big boat and the rest is free).
I don't know be'lakor yet but he seems perfect against such army, magic seems to ne a weak point of them, thanks for the advice!

[Sttufe]

Sounds like you get hit pretty hard, I would say you got pretty damn unlucky. Normally, our boats are surprisingly fragile, and if you had gotten in melee our infantry and boats tend to melt. Generally, we also are generally a bit weak-ish to mortals and high damage stuff. We have the bombs and drills for mortals, and thats it, and once again, our infantry is pretty squishy and no melee. Magic is pretty detrimental to us, we have usually one to zero unbinds, and finally, we are really slow once we get far from the boats. Kill the boats, and the foot soldiers are screwed essentially. Also, melting 700 pts is unusual for a couple of small boats and a frigate, so don't think that's a your screwed scenario. those had to be some lucky rolls. Also, that beginning charge would've definitely hindered the KO, but the main point is too let them come to you and put up chaff to zone them out, so basically sit on an objective, and make it so when the boats are coming in, they have to shoot your stuff u don't care about. Getting in the first hit is important, but unless you engage them with flying stuff, they can just leave and still shoot. KO is good, but there are def counters.

Edited October 13, 2020 by Sttufe

[Mark Williams]

The meta is shifting towards shooting armies.

[jeanfluflu]

  

7 hours ago, Sttufe said:

Sounds like you get hit pretty hard, I would say you got pretty damn unlucky. Normally, our boats are surprisingly fragile, and if you had gotten in melee our infantry and boats tend to melt. Generally, we also are generally a bit weak-ish to mortals and high damage stuff. We have the bombs and drills for mortals, and thats it, and once again, our infantry is pretty squishy and no melee. Magic is pretty detrimental to us, we have usually one to zero unbinds, and finally, we are really slow once we get far from the boats. Kill the boats, and the foot soldiers are screwed essentially. Also, melting 700 pts is unusual for a couple of small boats and a frigate, so don't think that's a your screwed scenario. those had to be some lucky rolls. Also, that beginning charge would've definitely hindered the KO, but the main point is too let them come to you and put up chaff to zone them out, so basically sit on an objective, and make it so when the boats are coming in, they have to shoot your stuff u don't care about. Getting in the first hit is important, but unless you engage them with flying stuff, they can just leave and still shoot. KO is good, but there are def counters.

thanks a lot, that's what my opponent said while blasting bodies like a madman "get me in close combat and my army will disapear".

Looking at the warscrolls the boats do look fragile and i do think i could have done things differently as i made some crucial mistakes.
I also feel that vanguard units have all the tools at their disposal to fight against that.
Maybe my friend's army probably needs some adjustments as most of what he plays except the deamon prince is pretty vulnerable and does not hit that hard.

AoS is pretty new to me though and i still need to practice to get to know my army better and avoid positioning mistakes, i want to play another game now !!!!!!

Edited October 14, 2020 by jeanfluflu

[zilberfrid]

9 minutes ago, jeanfluflu said:

  

thanks a lot, that's what my opponent said while blasting bodies like a madman "get me in close combat and my army will disapear".

Looking at the warscrolls the boats do look fragile and i do think i could have done things differently as i made some crucial mistakes.
I also feel that vanguard units have all the tools at their disposal to fight against that.
Maybe my friend's army probably needs some adjustments as most of what he plays except the deamon prince is pretty vulnerable and does not hit that hard.

AoS is pretty new to me though and i still need to practice to get to know my army better and avoid positioning mistakes, i want to play another game now !!!!!!

It's good that your opponent also highlighted the weakness of his army. If you know your own army, and know your opponent's... that's still no guarantee, but I don't think either the Kharadron or Sylvaneth armies are really broken.

I have seen Khorne obliterate most of a Kharadron army in one charge, so there is hope for your friend.

[JackStreicher]

Mhm you could longstrike shoot your enemy or send in the endless spell comet. Yet your opponents used two way too one-sided and strong lists for a 1k game, boring!

[zilberfrid]

27 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

Mhm you could longstrike shoot your enemy or send in the endless spell comet. Yet your opponents used two way too one-sided and strong lists for a 1k game, boring!

It depends on what the regular opponents at that shop bring. Bringing a strong list might be the norm for the players they usually face.

[jeanfluflu]

29 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:

It's good that your opponent also highlighted the weakness of his army. If you know your own army, and know your opponent's... that's still no guarantee, but I don't think either the Kharadron or Sylvaneth armies are really broken.

I have seen Khorne obliterate most of a Kharadron army in one charge, so there is hope for your friend.

my poor friend struggle a lot with his army.
Now that he plays khorne deamon prince things are getting better for him as he has something to hit hard (and first that's a game changer) but most of the time i think stormcast have more tools to their kit.

 

33 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

Mhm you could longstrike shoot your enemy or send in the endless spell comet. Yet your opponents used two way too one-sided and strong lists for a 1k game, boring!

well it was the first time for me against these two, i usually play soft lists against my friend so we can have fun together but now that i know that they are competitive dudes i'll adapt and try to catch them, it can go for very intense games :).
I'll see next time, frustration mostly came from the fact that it was a very one sided game.

[stratigo]

There is no victory, surrender your resources and labor to your new capitalist oveerlords. Free monocles and tophats for the first Stormcast to surrender while supplies last. Terms and conditions apply.

[Gokken]

What I do normaly, is I ask people what the play and if they say KO then I avoid them like the plague  I must say 700 points it quit nice. I play DOK and i normaly loose 1000+ on first turn. They just pop down shoot your cauldren, 2-3 other heroes and 1 major unit of witches and 1 smaller unit. Also if you play a melee army your a skrewed, when they drop the skaven trap in a bottle and you cannot run that game is done. 

people say the ships are squishy, lets be honest they have high health and a 4+ armor is not squishy and they can be repaired aswell, I play an army where super elite units have 5+ armor save, most is 6+

 

Combined with dropping everything, warp vortex and aether gold to reroll everything, most armies will last one turn, and not be able to move.

 

 

 

[jeanfluflu]

On 11/8/2020 at 8:23 PM, Gokken said:

What I do normaly, is I ask people what the play and if they say KO then I avoid them like the plague  I must say 700 points it quit nice. I play DOK and i normaly loose 1000+ on first turn. They just pop down shoot your cauldren, 2-3 other heroes and 1 major unit of witches and 1 smaller unit. Also if you play a melee army your a skrewed, when they drop the skaven trap in a bottle and you cannot run that game is done. 

people say the ships are squishy, lets be honest they have high health and a 4+ armor is not squishy and they can be repaired aswell, I play an army where super elite units have 5+ armor save, most is 6+

 

Combined with dropping everything, warp vortex and aether gold to reroll everything, most armies will last one turn, and not be able to move.

 

 

 

I agree, although i'm not a pro at playing against kharadron, the "squishyness" of the ships is quite relative.
We'll se next time how it goes, and if i go against the same man i'll just pop the 1 drop vanguard list to fight with something that can anwser his shooting style (And yes despite the miniature it looks like a 40K game :D)

[jhamslam]

The way to beat KO is gav bomb. Drop down 10 evos with Gav and evaporate them. They cant shoot whats not there

[jeanfluflu]

2 hours ago, jhamslam said:

The way to beat KO is gav bomb. Drop down 10 evos with Gav and evaporate them. They cant shoot whats not there

Good idea, it makes me think that skyborne slayers is probably a great idea too, it's easy to build a 1 drop list and get 20+ paladins to charge right away.
Also decimators vs boat is just insane, 10 attacks per model if there's dwarves in them (and there will be) makes a squad of 15 something like 90 att+ 4 starsoul maces !!!!!!!

Thinking something like
Celestant 
2X10 libs
2X5 judicators
15 decimators
15 protectors

I'm also thinking that the new battalions present in broken realms could really help us on this matchup, thinking about the one that allows you to TP 9 inches away from the enemy before first turn.
Someone pointed out that sequitors could be a part of it, i know a squad of 20 sequitors does not have the same impact than 10 evo but it is something to try out :).