Getting Priced Out

[zilberfrid]

23 minutes ago, EccentricCircle said:

While I don't disagree with a lot of what you're saying, it is worth pointing out that the fascism and xenophobia in 40K is satirical rather than something they're condoning.

I appreciate that the super serious style they present their world in doesn't help matters, compared to the more openly parodic stuff of yesteryear. However, the point of the setting is to take some of the most unpleasant aspects of human society and blows them up to insane levels as a critique and parody of what we see in the real world.

Certainly that involves asking the audience to empathise with unheroic heroes, which not everyone will find a pleasant experience. It's very much the Judge Dredd school of story telling, or evolved out of that at any rate. The fact that the protagonists are fanatical religious fundamentalists, and the arm of an oppressive, mass-murdering state is meant to prompt people to question authority, rather than defend its excesses.

Whether all the fanboys get that or not is a topic for another day of course...

I get that it is described as satire originally, but the tone has become too serious. And too many of its players take it too seriously as well. It reads a bit too much as Schrödinger's jokes used by the utter right.

If people agree, it wasn't a joke, if people disagree, it was a joke and you're judging it too hashly.

[Beastmaster]

Remember that they definitely don’t hold back to tell you the unpleasant results that such ideologies have. No one in their right mind would want to live in the 40k universe for even a day. It’s never presented as anything anyone would wish for outside the game.

[Rodiger]

14 hours ago, MarkK said:

£100, I believe

I bought the starter last year, and it felt like great value; two warbands, monsters and enough terrain to fill the board. 

To make this set comparable to last year's, I would like to have seen more chaos beasts (new subterranean types?) and underground terrain (actual walls and walkways). Then no need to include old terrain set to bulk out the contents.

Even compared to the very expensive Necromunda Dark Uprising box, this looks like bad value.

As I said in the Rumour thread, an actual starter at a cheaper price point of 60-80€ with 2 warbands, some terrain, rulebook and extras might have been a better option. 

I'm surprised really after the good job they done with the 40k starters that GW would release a €160 starter for a low model count skirmish game. 

Anyway, looking forward to see what the rest of the new warbands look like

Around 2 years a go I thought GWs prices were reasonable for these things. The original Kill Team starter I thought was quite well priced, as was the first Necromunda box, Blood Bowl and Shadespire. I bought all of them, some just because I was prepared to take a chance and there was a lot of stuff in the box. Now after 3 price rises, they look awful. I bought War Cry last year and I thought that was a bit too much. Now all of these things are less stuff for more money. I'm no longer prepared to take a chance on stuff like this or impulse buy it. Everything in the box has to be of worth for those prices. 

If the prices were less I'd spend more. As is I'm spending nothing. 

The new Hero Quest is 150 pounds with all the stretch goals that include 2 expansions. That is a much better deal than this.

[EccentricCircle]

4 hours ago, zilberfrid said:

I get that it is described as satire originally, but the tone has become too serious. And too many of its players take it too seriously as well. It reads a bit too much as Schrödinger's jokes used by the utter right.

If people agree, it wasn't a joke, if people disagree, it was a joke and you're judging it too hashly.

That's true enough.

On an unrelated note: Looking at catacombs I almost feel like they wanted to make heroquest, but tried to mash it together with warcry and got something which isn't quite either.

[Mikosan]

So after avoiding this for 12 pages I guess I'll go ahead and leave my thoughts.  I've been around since 5th ed oldhammer and I have rarely if ever thought I was getting some kind of steal buying GW products.  Which is why in leaner times I only buy what I want, when I can afford it and in not so lean times I only buy what I want, when I feel like it.  For me,  dropping a couple hundred US dollars on my hobby in one trip is never going to happen.  Spending that same amount, or likely more, over the course of 6-12 months?  Yeah sure, and not just because its easier to hide the receipts from my better half.  

I should say I don't really get into any of the side games.  They just aren't worth it to me since if I have the time I am going to play AoS.  I did however buy Silver Tower to introduce some board game friends to the IP and that has been worth every penny given the number of game nights it has seen.  

Some folks aren't going to like the hobby comparisons but I have friends that golf, and it amazes me how much they spend on a set of clubs, just to then buy more clubs.  I know people that spend as much as a "cheap" army on a day at a fancy course to swing them clubs on.  How about my other hobby, guitars?  Well sure I could get a guitar cheap, but then I just have a cheap guitar.  Fender strats, gibson LP's, Martin acoustics all cost over $1K and if electric you also need an amp that can run anywhere from $100-$1k on their own.  Then you have the various gear, pedals, new strings, an upgraded pick up set etc.... You get where I'm going with this.  It's not a cope out to say a lot of hobbies are expensive.  That said it becomes a matter of what value you get from the hobby.  I don't need to spend $1K on a guitar because I don't play as much as I used to.  Just like I don't need to spend whatever they want for Warcry because I won't play it.  Now if a new army comes out and it hits my hobby in the feels, cost will factor in to how quickly I get an army up and running, but between painting, playing, making lists, and talking with buddies about this points cost or that battalion, I get countless hours of return on my investment.  

So do I think GW costs are absurd? Yep.  I also think the cost of a gaming console is crazy.  New and even used cars?  Outrageous. Hell even the craft beer I like is ridiculous.  My point isn't that these are all comparable, just that as I get older the price of everything seems crazy.  Just put a personal value on the item and spend accordingly.  Obviously having insane prices makes it harder to jump in to a new hobby or new army and that can be bad for the game in general, but there are more points of entry at varying price points than at any time I have been involved with Warhammer.  

[Sleboda]

Random thought:

 

People are willing to wait in line (virtually or otherwise) to spend a minimum of $500 to buy a new console despite knowing:

- It doesn't come with a game to play

- You need to own a TV for it to be useful, preferably a big 4K bad boy

- You'll have a diminished experience unless you pay for a monthly subscription service

- It will need patches and upgrades for, likely, years before it actually functions the way the manufacturer wanted it to

- With just a tiny bit of patience, they could get the console cheaper, bundled with extra goodies, or both once the initial new hotness rush fades

- To get the most out of it, you need to have/buy quality internet service

- In a few years, it'll be junk (from most peoples' perspective)

- Every game you buy for it retails for $50+, more for the deluxe versions

- Your game experience is at the mercy of the manufacturer as they issue patches you can't avoid in any practical sense

- The whole purchase (not "investment") is trash with one surge or spilled shot of vodka

- If the power goes out, it's a paper weight

- It's not even a facilitating a hobby. It's just a game machine. You don't create anything tangible. You don't make anything.

- Most of the social interaction that comes from it is with bullies who yell at you anonymously from 5000 miles away

 

And people complain about the cost of our hobby!

 

Sheesh.

Edited October 20, 2020 by Sleboda

[zilberfrid]

33 minutes ago, Sleboda said:

- It's not even a facilitating a hobby. It's just a game machine. You don't create anything tangible. You don't make anything.

- Most of the social interaction that comes from it is with bullies who yell at you anonymously from 5000 miles away

Mostly agree, but these two points.

I don't think about the permanence of my models. I wouldn't get anything done if I did.

That social interaction can be really cool.

EvE online can be seen as a somewhat hostile environment, and I have travelled a lot in places that were not safe. At one point, I cut it very close and I just managed to dock back into the station when ambushed by pirates (My character was a few weeks old at that point).

We ended up talking while I was cowering inside. Sometimes, pirates will extort you to let you pass (and really, you're at their mercy). I ended up getting an escort to safe space (with that ship still flashing really red because it had almost destroyed me just before), and was reimbursed the estimated cost the repairs had been. By every ship in the ambush. Without asking for it. They didn't even let me return it when I noticed it was way too much.

I had that a few more times (though not that extreme). It only went wrong when I wasn't paying attention, or when it was so quick I had no time to make contact (but even then, I had someone gift me a ship of equal value to the one that was lost). People just want an enjoyable experience in a game. If you're a nice person, you'll encounter nice persons, because you infect them with oozing niceness.

Online people can be really nice.

To the detriment of any gaming computer: You're still at the computer, which is something I already do all day. It's a major reason why I don't have a 3d printer.

[Sleboda]

35 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:

I don't think about the permanence of my models. I wouldn't get anything done if I did.

That social interaction can be really cool.

Really? The physical, lasting presence is a huge part of the hobby.  I have armies I've not used in decades, but they are proudly displayed in glass cabinets around my house. Plus, having them around lets you show yourself how much better you've gotten over the years  at painting (it's why I recommend people never strip and redo their old paint jobs).

 

As to the interaction, I more mean the times when DqFrt69 insults your momma from another continent.  Ooo, big man.  Say it to my face.  Ya know, that sort of thing (it's a big reason I use my real name in forums - keeps me accountable). No amount of oozed niceness is going to help a 12 year old with bad parents treat you better.

Edited October 20, 2020 by Sleboda

[zilberfrid]

18 minutes ago, Sleboda said:

Really? The physical, lasting presence is a huge part of the hobby.  I have armies I've not used in decades, but they are proudly displayed in glass cabinets around my house. Plus, having them around lets you show yourself how much better you've gotten over the years  at painting (it's why I recommend people never strip and redo their old paint jobs).

As to the interaction, I more mean the times when DqFrt69 insults your momma from another continent.  Ooo, big man.  Say it to my face.  Ya know, that sort of thing (it's a big reason I use my real name in forums - keeps me accountable). No amount of oozed niceness is going to help a 12 year old with bad parents treat you better.

Oh, I do like the progression and do display the models, but I can get paralized by choices if I think about them too much. Not thinking about what's a good thing to put on the model, or even what metal the flintlocks of some other guns were is just easier. Pick up a model, paint it, and then pick up a new model. Thinking is for work.

EDIT: There is one exception where I tried for the website colour scheme for once (which didn't work because this isn't the FW model):

Edited October 20, 2020 by zilberfrid

[MarkK]

2 hours ago, Mikosan said:

Well sure I could get a guitar cheap, but then I just have a cheap guitar.  Fender strats, gibson LP's, Martin acoustics all cost over $1K and if electric you also need an amp that can run anywhere from $100-$1k on their own.  Then you have the various gear, pedals, new strings, an upgraded pick up set etc....

I feel personally attacked! 😄

Probably spent more on guitars and associated gear than I ever will in this hobby, although GW are trying their best to even that score!

Fender American Strat, Fender Mexican Blacktop Tele with Seymour Duncan's and new hardware, and a Tele I'm building with a body made by a luthier from local walnut, currently putting the finish on the body. Thankfully I don't have the urge to buy anymore, a mortgage usually curbs that feeling! All bought when I had more money than sense 😁

[Overread]

I should note that "priced out" has two interpretations

1) The cost of the product is greater than the person can justify spending on the product. 

2) The cost of the product is greater than the person can afford to spend on the product

 

When dealing with luxuries where its non-essential items and thus optional from the very start we have to remember that people in group 2 find "other hobby is more expensive" to be a poor argument since it doesn't matter if something else costs more. They still cannot take part and if GW's prices have risen beyond their actual means then it is a hard barrier for them. 

 

I also think its important to remember that even if we can justify the expense in terms of hours of enjoyment we have to consider that we can get the same creative and artistic fun from other miniature manufacturers. Granted the gaming side can be a bit more hit and miss and sometimes to do another game you have to accept far fewer local players or even having to create your own player interest to get things going. 

 

 

 

[Greybeard86]

15 hours ago, Mikosan said:

So do I think GW costs are absurd? Yep.  I also think the cost of a gaming console is crazy.  New and even used cars?  Outrageous. Hell even the craft beer I like is ridiculous.  My point isn't that these are all comparable, just that as I get older the price of everything seems crazy.  Just put a personal value on the item and spend accordingly.  Obviously having insane prices makes it harder to jump in to a new hobby or new army and that can be bad for the game in general, but there are more points of entry at varying price points than at any time I have been involved with Warhammer.  

Quoting you, but answering to all the "but golf is more expensive!" or "I get enjoyment at 2 cents an hour from GW products".

Typically, complains about GW prices come from the fact that we customers believe that the current prices are the result of market power, and that in a different market structure (multiple competing similar wargames) we would have lower prices.  E.g. we could potentially have megagargants sold at a profit for half or less of the price, but GW uses its market dominance to keep prices "high". 

Whether the gargants are "valuable" enough to you for their price is a different matter.

People complain because they do think that we could have "cheaper" gargants we may want to buy but GW is locking some people out of the market to make more profit out of the models. And, as a matter of fact, this is absolutely true. GW is most certainly using market power to keep prices "high", and that is absolutely "pricing out" some people that would otherwise participate. 

Obviously, those complaining the most are the group that are "outpriced". 

[Nos]

On 10/20/2020 at 7:57 AM, Mcthew said:

Wow. That's not good. It would be helpful to learn why those rises are outstripping wage inflation. This is not like buying a house. You don't need plastic soldiers to live. And you can buy them cheaper elsewhere.

The Financial Times assessment of GW recently has everyone still amazed about this 'plastic' bubble of success the company has formed but also warned investors against GW:

"The quality of growth is another concern. Analysis from research house Stockviews shows that since 2016, Games Workshop has become increasingly reliant on trade channels, whereas retail and online sales per hobby centre have stalled. A pause on shop openings since the start of the pandemic suggests that trend is unlikely to reverse any time soon.

Greater reliance on independently operated stores increases the risk of disappointment. Not only are profit margins lower, but the reseller network suffers more during disruption than the core. Games Workshop’s full-year earnings showed trade-channel revenue down 16 per cent in the six months to the end of May versus the previous six months, compared with an 11 per cent decline in sales made through owned stores and online."

This coupled with above inflation price rises will make GW games a higher tier of premium and force their players into a lower tier and away from GW games. Or, it will almost certainly turn them to the eBay market where GW will not make a penny and lose further revenue. There might be reasons for the constant price rises but not being transparent about them will hurt the business. 

As an aside, I havent bought anything from GW or Warhammer beyond the occasional paint pot, in over a year. And in the last 4 months I've only bought from eBay. For example, my last purchases had an rrp of £130 but I bought these new at £70 from an eBay reseller (one where GW will see nothing from that sale). This is not anti-GW, more a fiscal choice. The hobby is overpriced and when it interferes with essential living costs, it becomes an unhelpful distraction more than a hobby.

I fear this will apply to most gamers in the months to come. So GW aren't helping themselves.

I'm pretty sure at this point that GW have eyes on prizes outside of minis. Obviously that will be their main focus for the immediate future but pandemic permitting I think they'll be looking at becoming a media franchise proper- cinema, tv, merchandise etc.

Their trademarks and IP and most importantly their capacity to reinvent and add to it and keep pace with commercially woke/acceptable diversity trends (to clarify, I am not dismissing the importance of either of these, but clarifying the existencev of a specific commercial expectation for what that means, which Disney have established very effectively the past few years) are now commercial strengths which are too big to be maintained to a niche hobby. If GW do not see themselves doing this independently, I expect an astonishingly expensive take over by one of the entertainment monopolies who already have that structure in place. They will continue to make and create games of course in the same manner that Marvel continue to publish comics but they will become more an expression and means of interacting with the media output than a self contained hobby.

Unless the pandemic fundamentally disrupts the global economy to the point where Disney et al are in trouble, I think this path for them is both intentional, logical and inevitable.

I also expect 40k Lore to be continued to be re-written for expressly this purpose. AOS will be safe given that it was/is basically the test case of blowing up the old lore and moulding it into something more contemporary, less globally problematic and more profitable.

Edited October 21, 2020 by Nos

[Overread]

I don't think GW is aiming to become a media franchise power in the least. 

Yes they are doing media, but I get more of a vibe that they are using that to develop something they want to make which can also turn a profit and, most importantly, expose more people to their IP and thus help drive game sales of their core product. Its just the same as how they do their computergames, only instead of using 3rd parties, GW are doing the media a little more under their own umbrella. 

Shifting gear to try and become Marvel/DC/Disney is a VASTLY different ballgame and well outside of GW's comfort zone. It's a wholly different market and attitude and I just don't see any hint that GW is even trying to go that way. 

 

In the end GW makes good money from franchise work, but at the same time its an extra ontop of their core business of making models. Considering that they've kept that all inhouse (their new factory is at the same site in the UK) I don't think they are aiming for a huge media model as their main income source. Heck its very premature as we've not even seen a single one of GW's new media productions and their earlier attempts were, honestly, mostly very cheap/disasters. IT might well just be a pet project that happens and dies on its own; or becomes its own thing. 

 

 

In the end GW is in the miniature model business

[Kramer]

28 minutes ago, Overread said:

I don't think GW is aiming to become a media franchise power in the least. 

Yes they are doing media, but I get more of a vibe that they are using that to develop something they want to make which can also turn a profit and, most importantly, expose more people to their IP and thus help drive game sales of their core product. Its just the same as how they do their computergames, only instead of using 3rd parties, GW are doing the media a little more under their own umbrella. 

Shifting gear to try and become Marvel/DC/Disney is a VASTLY different ballgame and well outside of GW's comfort zone. It's a wholly different market and attitude and I just don't see any hint that GW is even trying to go that way. 

 

In the end GW makes good money from franchise work, but at the same time its an extra ontop of their core business of making models. Considering that they've kept that all inhouse (their new factory is at the same site in the UK) I don't think they are aiming for a huge media model as their main income source. Heck its very premature as we've not even seen a single one of GW's new media productions and their earlier attempts were, honestly, mostly very cheap/disasters. IT might well just be a pet project that happens and dies on its own; or becomes its own thing. 

 

 

In the end GW is in the miniature model business

Every business is (read should) be a media company. 
its a bit of an catchy statement from a public speaker and entrepreneur. But the truth is every non local business produces media. And should take it seriously, and usually does. 
same for GW. That’s what sells their models. 

in the miniature model making business you also need to be visible. 

Edited October 21, 2020 by Kramer

[Mcthew]

55 minutes ago, Nos said:

I'm pretty sure at this point that GW have eyes on prizes outside of minis. Obviously that will be their main focus for the immediate future but pandemic permitting I think they'll be looking at becoming a media franchise proper- cinema, tv, merchandise etc.

Their trademarks and IP and most importantly their capacity to reinvent and add to it and keep pace with commercially woke/acceptable diversity trends (to clarify, I am not dismissing the importance of either of these, but clarifying the existencev of a specific commercial expectation for what that means, which Disney have established very effectively the past few years) are now commercial strengths which are too big to be maintained to a niche hobby. If GW do not see themselves doing this independently, I expect an astonishingly expensive take over by one of the entertainment monopolies who already have that structure in place. They will continue to make and create games of course in the same manner that Marvel continue to publish comics but they will become more an expression and means of interacting with the media output than a self contained hobby.

Unless the pandemic fundamentally disrupts the global economy to the point where Disney et al are in trouble, I think this path for them is both intentional, logical and inevitable.

I also expect 40k Lore to be continued to be re-written for expressly this purpose. AOS will be safe given that it was/is basically the test case of blowing up the old lore and moulding it into something more contemporary, less globally problematic and more profitable.

Must admit I'm sceptical about this approach. It surmises that GW lore is a strong brand in the world of entertainment. Its not, compared to the big hitters and is limited in the same way as Dungeons and Dragons has always been. The media off-shoots are noway near successful enough to compete outside its own limited fan base which relies on the models and games to provide the business with oxygen. You only have to look at console gaming and the general dim view of GW licensed product, to see that it doesn't compete with say Fortnite, it cant compete with genre book sales, comic sales, and the last film was dire. For it to be a big player you would need a Disney type buyout which will never happen in the current climate based on how Entertainment needs a complete revision to function in a pandemic world.

Its very unlikely that we would see anything like this soon  and would prove a costly mistake if attempted in the near future.

Maybe in 10-20 years it could I guess... But by then will we even care?

[RuneBrush]

11 hours ago, Sleboda said:

- It's not even a facilitating a hobby. It's just a game machine. You don't create anything tangible. You don't make anything.

Glad you said that!  It was a revelation I had a number of years ago when I was playing far too much WoW than was healthy (around the time Burning Crusade came out) and prior to that was after playing too much SWG.  I had the realisation that all of the hours I spent tucked away of an evening in front of the computer didn't give me anything I could touch or show people.  "what did you do over the weekend" - "I dehydrated and starved myself to change one collection of pixels into a different bunch of pixels that was better".  That was the point where I shifted over to committing more time to the hobby and if I'm honest never looked back.

[Beastmaster]

I don’t know. A gaming console is a piece of pretty sophisticated electronic hardware (even though such things are easily mass-produced nowadays), while a Gargant miniature or two is basically a piece of pressed plastic (even though well designed etc.). In my mind, they should be priced on completely different levels for me to say „That’s a fair offer“.

I admit, I never understood capitalism. 

[Greybeard86]

43 minutes ago, Beastmaster said:

I don’t know. A gaming console is a piece of pretty sophisticated electronic hardware (even though such things are easily mass-produced nowadays), while a Gargant miniature or two is basically a piece of pressed plastic (even though well designed etc.). In my mind, they should be priced on completely different levels for me to say „That’s a fair offer“.

I admit, I never understood capitalism. 

Once you abandon the realm of "competitive markets prices are no longer "mostly about costs".

To the people mentioning the prices of musical instruments, let's look at the different margins that the piano maker Kawai has vs games workshop.

https://www.morningstar.com/stocks/xdus/g7w/performance

https://www.morningstar.com/stocks/xtks/7952/performance

I mean, everyone knows this, even though you get the "but what about the costs of development and..." sort of comments time and again.

Yes, GW is charging "a lot" because they are "very dominant" in the wargaming market, and yes, their "very high prices" mean that there are people who could be served at a profit who are "priced out" because GW prefers to charge at a far above competitive market price.

I mean, it is a classic example of what market power brings, and one of the main reasons why we (as societies) actively fight against market concentration.

[EccentricCircle]

I can't see GW trying to switch to competing with the big media companies to be honest. While I'm sure they'd love to make Marvel Money, and would work towards that if they could, its presently on a different order of magnitude.

I think they are much better off being a colossal razor toothed shark in the tiny goldfish bowl that is tabletop wargames, than they would be trying to compete as a pretty small fish in the ocean of the big media conglomerates. They are much better off licensing their IP to those companies, and making money in tandem than they would be trying to compete with Disney on its own terms. I don't see the advantage of them soliciting a buyout by a larger megacorp either.

[Kramer]

17 minutes ago, EccentricCircle said:

I can't see GW trying to switch to competing with the big media companies to be honest. While I'm sure they'd love to make Marvel Money, and would work towards that if they could, its presently on a different order of magnitude.

I think they are much better off being a colossal razor toothed shark in the tiny goldfish bowl that is tabletop wargames, than they would be trying to compete as a pretty small fish in the ocean of the big media conglomerates. They are much better off licensing their IP to those companies, and making money in tandem than they would be trying to compete with Disney on its own terms. I don't see the advantage of them soliciting a buyout by a larger megacorp either.

They don’t need to make money out of media. Nor beat Disney. 
if that series help introduce people into the hobby because we as fans show others. 
 

its a communication tool. It increases brand recognition and Engagement. 
It it achieves those goals it will lead to sales. I believe those anime like series will lead to that. (Probably why it’s different styles as well, see what gains the most traction) 

[DellaMorte]

I had a look at the charts for GW and was staggered by how much they've made out of the Covid era so far! I guess it's given a lot more people, a lot more time to do things they otherwise wouldn't! I'll certainly be keeping an eye out on the charts for a dip, plenty of room for short term covid downside!

[Kramer]

1 hour ago, DellaMorte said:

I had a look at the charts for GW and was staggered by how much they've made out of the Covid era so far! I guess it's given a lot more people, a lot more time to do things they otherwise wouldn't! I'll certainly be keeping an eye out on the charts for a dip, plenty of room for short term covid downside!

I'm curious. Do you know how shop sales and sales through third parties are taken into account? 
Because locally the shop closed, so they will have ordered less. People will likely have order more online instead. But that won't factor change a thing for GW because it's both sales they would have made. 

But sales through walk ins must have changed. This weekend I bought a pot of paint because my two year old daughter grabbed it out of the rack and started crying when I took it away 😂. That wouldn't have happened with a greater daemon, but I would be interested to how those extra online vs in shop sales have changed. 

[DellaMorte]

Haha that's funny about your daughter, did you happen to point her in the general direction of the colour you wanted?! From my own experience I only bought some paints as an excuse to talk to the geezer in store lol. From my own experience I would imagine that most seasoned gamers and that is GWs biggest sales base would buy from third party retailers due to knowing they can get the goods cheaper away from Games Workshop - the ultra loyal would buy from GW on principle but I highly doubt that would be a big number, I can't comment on foot traffic in store but the store in my town is always dead.

Business to business sales will just be cumulative to total sales one would imagine as a sale to business is no different sans margin so would think sales are definitely up through third parties given their excessive prices. I expect that Games Workshop have really strong margins on their models given that absolutely everything is done in-house as I understand it. I think as mentioned before with lockdown, there's a lot more freetime which is an untangible asset to a hobby based company and you'll have seen the biggest spikes in retail sales aimed at "freetime activities" DIY one of the biggest drivers with things like arts and crafts and gardening following along and obviously the streaming services and gaming industry has seen a massive uptick.

When we have total lockdown again (which we will) toward November/early December I reckon you'll see another spike in GW sales. It will be interesting to see if we can catch a dip before then. I'm interested now so I'm going to see if I can get hold of some balance sheets and see what's up rather than speculate - investing in a company you believe in is powerful and it's something repeated in history from any decent investor.

[Kramer]

14 minutes ago, DellaMorte said:

Haha that's funny about your daughter, did you happen to point her in the general direction of the colour you wanted?! From my own experience I only bought some paints as an excuse to talk to the geezer in store lol. 

Haha no, but you could say I 'primed' her  for that behaviour from a young age. It's absolutely fascinating to her why some paint pots make a sound when you shake them and others don't.

That started really young, I would lay often her on the table next to me while I painted. And around that time hearing and touch develops so it was just playing around. Shaking a pot for the sound, letting her touch an old paint brush bristles, like a bad magician changing one bright coloured pot for another faster than she could register and seeing if she reacted to the change in colour. (and that's how I explained my ever increasing paint collection; no honey, it's an educational tool for the baby)

And now it's just collecting and arranging the paints. If I leave my box with paints within her reach. I will find all the pots neatly ordered, in her mind at least, in another place. And still shaking every pot to check which make sounds.

14 minutes ago, DellaMorte said:

usiness to business sales will just be cumulative to total sales one would imagine as a sale to business is no different sans margin so would think sales are definitely up through third parties given their excessive prices. I expect that Games Workshop have really strong margins on their models given that absolutely everything is done in-house as I understand it. I think as mentioned before with lockdown, there's a lot more freetime which is an untangible asset to a hobby based company and you'll have seen the biggest spikes in retail sales aimed at "freetime activities" DIY one of the biggest drivers with things like arts and crafts and gardening following along and obviously the streaming services and gaming industry has seen a massive uptick.

Yeah that makes sense. 

14 minutes ago, DellaMorte said:

When we have total lockdown again (which we will) toward November/early December I reckon you'll see another spike in GW sales. It will be interesting to see if we can catch a dip before then. I'm interested now so I'm going to see if I can get hold of some balance sheets and see what's up rather than speculate - investing in a company you believe in is powerful and it's something repeated in history from any decent investor.

GW is a global retailer. Here in the Netherlands we are already as close to a lockdown as we'll get I suspect. And that will be the case for more countries. So it might be a bit more spread out this time. Last time the whole of Europe went in the same 2 weeks. Combined with new releases, I would wager that any dip will hardly noticable.

Edited October 21, 2020 by Kramer