Soulblight As a Replacement for LoN?

Liquidsteel · November 17, 2020

Coming on or around AoS 3.0 (if it is next Summer) would be fine, as you'd rather be first of the new edition and ensure full compatibility with the new edition (you'd hope!).

Bademeister · November 25, 2020

I think and hope there will come a battletome like Orruk Warclans for LoN, Soulblight and Nighthaunt.

Here you can find every Warscroll of each unit from the above mentioned factions. Each of them get a stand alone Subfaction with diffrent Legions/Bloodlines/Hosts, just like in the most updated Battletomes. Despite you get one big Death faction, where you are able to play each Death unit - or just from the units inside of this book - in one mixed army.

Like i said, just like the Orruk Book, where you can finde Ironjaws, Bonesplitterz and other Big Waaagh! Allegiance

Sception · November 25, 2020

That is extremely unlikely. Warclans combined two mini factions into one faction of the same 'type' - orcs. Nighthaunt alone is a large faction, iirc more kits than all of the warclans put together, with a very distinct 'type' from other undead. Combining nighthaunt with LoN would be like combining stormcast and cities of sigmar in the same book. Not impossible conceptually, but not the direction the devs seem to be moving in.

Soulblight might stay with the remains of legions of nagash, that wouldn't even be combining factions as those are already the same faction. But nighthaunt and obr aren't getting rolled into the rest any time soon from what I can tell.

Honk · November 25, 2020

5 hours ago, Bademeister said:

Like i said, just like the Orruk Book, where you can finde Ironjaws, Bonesplitterz and other Big Waaagh! Allegiance

That would be fun, to be Allentown play „Grand Alliance: Death“ again, but as stated above... not likely.

After the Slaneesh vs Snake-Mountain Debakel of my shattered Hopes, I just pray we get an early book of AoS 3.0, than the last of 2.0 ...

BaylorCorvette · November 25, 2020

56 minutes ago, Honk said:

That would be fun, to be Allentown play „Grand Alliance: Death“ again, but as stated above... not likely.

After the Slaneesh vs Snake-Mountain Debakel of my shattered Hopes, I just pray we get an early book of AoS 3.0, than the last of 2.0 ...

Yes I agree. While that means a little bit longer wait, I would prefer a 3.0 Battle Tome as well.

Sception · November 25, 2020

We've seen a lot of undeadish previews, previews that read to me very much like a "LoN 2.0" such as that posited for soulblight by this thread. The previews seem to feature too many weapons and not enough feral claws for a Flesh Eater Courts expansion - though FEC units with corroded arms & tattered armor are certainly one way they could go with that faction so it isn't impossible. Either way, they seem way too corroded for an all-vampires-all-the-time version of Soulblight. Looking at existing warhammer vampire models, up to and including Mannfred and Neferata, none of their weapons are pitted with corrosion that way.

Granted, those previews could be skaven instead, and not undead at all, but if they /are/ undead it looks to be either a straight up Legions of Nagash 2.0 release, which seems highly unlikely given the evolution of the Death narrative in AoS, or else it's something like what's been speculated here, an AoS version of the old Vamp Counts faction, likely as a replacement for LoN as we currently know it.

There have been several such previews, going back a while now, but no hint of the actual release they might be tied to, which is probably justa result of the overall production schedule being set back by Covid, but could be because it's part of a more significant upcoming release that they're not quite ready to show off yet.

So where am I going with this baseless speculation, based on what could easily just be a skaven box for War Cry and nothing Undead or even AoS at all? Simple.

Neo-Vampire Counts in the AoS 3.0 starter box, releasing Summer 2021

Probably vs. Stormcast, but maybe not. Is this likely? No, not at all. But if it does happen, remember, you heard it here first.

lare2 · November 25, 2020

Another Death faction in the starter? I'd like it but I really can't see it.

Bademeister · November 26, 2020

20 hours ago, Sception said:

Neo-Vampire Counts in the AoS 3.0 starter box, releasing Summer 2021

That would be great. But i think the Story has to go in this direction for such a release. We still don't know what nagash is thinking about the things that happened in the Morathi book. Katakros is still sitting in the Eightpoints, Lady Olynder waiting for instruction. The other 3 Mortarchs ain't doing a thing.

jeremym · November 26, 2020

I have a wild theory, and I frankly don't have anything other than gut to go on, so feel free to dismiss this out right.

I can see vampires being added into the Nighthaunt. Especially with the in faction fighting present in the broken realms books, its only a matter of time before some of these undead express a level of self interest.

I just get this feeling GW could put all these last pieces of the puzzle together and push a bunch of mortal realms in the meantime

Nullius · November 27, 2020

I’d say Soulblight confirmed! That symbol is basically the skull mask of manfred’s dread abyssal.

Overread · November 27, 2020

Underworlds Warbands are never confirmation of anything.

That said honestly soulblight is one of those "I'll be shocked if they never do them" kind of armies. Kurnothi I can see being just a creative project, just like wolf riding goblins. But Soulblight has vampires which feature so heavily in Nagash's lore and general lore of the Realms that it would be very surprising to never see them appear.

Honk · November 27, 2020

18 minutes ago, Nullius said:

I’d say Soulblight confirmed!

Yeah, for underworld...

just like legion of azghor 🤣

but as stated above, vampires are just too present in the setting to be ignored. Hopefully then in June, together with AoS 3.0 😇😈👻

Blueraven84 · November 27, 2020

Just don't mix them with stupid disney pirates or I'm afraid there will another youtube burning army video coming next summer. Old school vamps or schools out for summer

El Antiguo Guardián · November 28, 2020

Cannot wait more.

Nullius · November 28, 2020

21 hours ago, Overread said:

Underworlds Warbands are never confirmation of anything.

That said honestly soulblight is one of those "I'll be shocked if they never do them" kind of armies. Kurnothi I can see being just a creative project, just like wolf riding goblins. But Soulblight has vampires which feature so heavily in Nagash's lore and general lore of the Realms that it would be very surprising to never see them appear.

Oh I would be fairly confident that a number of Kurnothi units make their way into the next Sylvaneth Army book. It’s in the name; Fauns, Centaurs, and various sylvan fairy Creatures are right on theme for Sylvaneth, and Kurnoth is an opportunity for another centerpiece for what has proven a perennially popular army.

I expect there is also a massive dark oath release somewhere out there waiting in the wings. (Either that it’s the dark oath units were repurposed for Warcry and Slaves to Darkness). That leaves the wolf riders, who may also turn up in a green skin army book sooner or later.

since 2nd edition was all about nagash, I would expect the death faction has one more big fanged release left in it. We have AoS ghosts (nighthaunt), AoS Skeletons (OBR), so it stands to reason that Manfred, Neferata, and all their scheming offspring will land somewhere. The fact that the symbol on the preview is basically the skull faced head of Manfred’s Dread abyssal says it all.

Overread · November 28, 2020

Dark Oath is very odd. I'd have thought they've have had one of the warbands for Underworld, but they don't. It seems that Dark Oath have been put to one side or are waiting for an eventual replacement of the marauders kits. Basically when we read a lot of the Dark Oath stuff it was basically core Slaves to Darkness models. I do think they were part of the marketing for things like Primaris and such - ergo a thought that GW could copy the same army over again. However I think its a segment of ideas that have been abandoned- why have two near identical slaves to darkenss forces under different names when you can just have one and have a different army entirely.

Nullius · November 29, 2020

12 hours ago, Overread said:

Dark Oath is very odd. I'd have thought they've have had one of the warbands for Underworld, but they don't. It seems that Dark Oath have been put to one side or are waiting for an eventual replacement of the marauders kits. Basically when we read a lot of the Dark Oath stuff it was basically core Slaves to Darkness models. I do think they were part of the marketing for things like Primaris and such - ergo a thought that GW could copy the same army over again. However I think its a segment of ideas that have been abandoned- why have two near identical slaves to darkenss forces under different names when you can just have one and have a different army entirely.

I’m not so sure. I think there is a rich vein to be mined in the Darkoath concept. There is room for standard pagans, like the old norsicans. Norsicans honored Sigmar, grungi, Ulric, Morr, and so forth AND the chaos gods all equally, depending on the season and the need. In other words, the dark oath would represent the vast majority of the survivors of the age of chaos. They would honor Sigmar, Nagash, all Arielle, and the whole pantheon of Order, but also the Dark gods. They would be tragically tainted, and almost on the Path to Glory, but they would be very relatable, almost heroic Survivors above all else. If I were a designer, I would tug on this thread. It’s in the name “Dark-Oath,” as in these are not cultists of the dark gods. These are ordinary folks who have sworn an oath, or taken a fated quest for the dark gods, setting their feet on the path, perhaps for just reasons, or simply for survival. They would be a human faction, and relatable, with a hint of tragedy. It would also clarify why the Warcry warbands have the “cultist,” keyword. Their adherence to a chaos cult or creed would put them at a step removed from ordinary human survivors living in the wreckage of the mortal realms. Those ordinary, desperate, and heroic survivors would be the Dark Oath.

Clan's Cynic · November 30, 2020

Darkoath are probably just going to be whatever the updated Marauder models are. Slaves to Darkness was a weird release, wherein only the Start Collecting(!) and arguably the War Cry bands were new models. We know a multi-part Chaos Warrior/Knight release will land at some point, presumably alongside updated Marauders which will probably be rennamed Darkoath Raidkin or something - a lot of older models have aged gracefully, but the Marauders are not one of them.

Edited November 30, 2020 by Clan's Cynic

Gibs · January 8, 2021

Vampires Counts / Soulblight / Whatever...have more than enough IP just from being vampires to justify their own corner of death with an extensively refreshed model range. I would like to see the narrative of this faction looking to seek greater independence from Nagash even begin to challenge his control and split away from LoN. Maybe another 'ancient' vampire line rises up to challenge Nagash and Manfred....

In terms of playstyle, hordes of skeletons while cool has now become the realm of other Death factions. However, Vampire Lords back in fantasy days were some of the most enjoyable characters to build and field and I hope that aspect can be recaptured somehow. Ideas:

Re-introduce the customization of the vampire lord and make then the beating heart of the army
- In VC days when your Lord was defeated your army started to crumble (this felt good and very thematic)
- Maybe each Vampire Lord could have a bloodline and each unit in the army has to be allocated to a bloodline . Then when a lord is defeated, that bloodline is reduced in effectiveness and possibly even begins to perish?
Reliance on fresh blood - mortals on the table
- Instead of hordes of undead skeletons, mortal units could fill out the bulk of your battelines
- Elite vampires could then choose to consume mortal units to boost their powers or recover wounds (D3, D6 and even 2D6 models consumed gains incrementally more powerful effects).
  - Different bloodlines could excel in different areas (magic, combat and resilience)
  - This would create an interesting dynamic of how to use your army (resources) and would add a real element of skill to the army.

Models

Footslogging elite vampire warriors
New sculpts of vampire lords on foot (bigger bases and sculpts)
A couple of new vampiric beasts that can be summoned
Updated blood knights (Blood dragons)
Mortal bloodline units (servants/food)

Summary

Push vampire's in their own direction and begin the narrative of splitting from Nagash in some capacity
Introduce a new or returning vampire family (bloodline)
Keep the vampire lord/s front and center and bring back some of the customization
Tie bloodlines effectiveness to the vampire lord
Bring in mortals as battleline and make them a dual resource for vampires
- Send them into conflict and/or consume them to empower your vampire characters
Bring in elite footslogging vampires and update vampire lord sculpts (make them bigger)

Edited January 8, 2021 by Gibs

Sception · January 8, 2021

11 hours ago, Gibs said:

In terms of playstyle, hordes of skeletons while cool has now become the realm of other Death factions.

Except that it really hasn't. OBR are fairly elite and independant by design. Nighthaunt can go semi-hoardy, but that's not the primary thrust of their faction, not with ethereal saves and flight faction wide. Ghouls also can go semi-haordy, but it's again not the primary thrust of their faction which puts a lot more emphasis on monster mashing and even their hoardy units are less hoardy than even nighthaunts.

The only 'classic hoard of slow, weak undead empowered by necromantic commanders' faction is Legions of Nagash, and narratively legions of nagash is a defunct faction. The Legion of Sacrament outright no longer exists in the lore. Grand Host looks to be in the same boat, even if it hasn't been stated as overtly. The only legions left are Blood and Night, and when they lose there commanders to an inevitable Soulblight book, no matter what form said book takes, that's it. Legions of Nagash might persist in the mechanics for a time, but in the setting it will simply no longer be. If Soulblight ends up taking the form of another dedicated elite army, then the entire classic undead hoard concept will disappear from the game altogether.

I'm not saying that couldn't happen. It certainly could. But 'hordes of skeletons' absolutely is not the realm of other Death Factions.

Further, while Soulblight as a concept is deep enough to support a stand alone AOS style mini faction with a completely new model range a la fyreslayers, and GW does want us to buy new models, it's ALSO true that GW wants people to keep buying old models, the models that they've already invested development time and molds into. That's why each grand alliance has at least one, and often more, large hodge podge battletomes of oldhammer models. Ogors. Skaven. Beastmen. Seraphon. Cities.

Legions of Nagash *was* this for death. But once a Soulblight book is published, again regardless of the form it takes, that's it for the current version of Legions of Nagash. At that point there are only three options.

1. Stop selling still popular kits that they already put significant resources into developing. Skeleton Warriors, Grave Guard, Black Knights, Mortis Engines, corpse carts, etc. Either shelve them, or shift them exclusively over to the Old World game. This is entirely possible. Unlikely, imo. Again, GW have *not* been retiring oldhammer factions of late. They did to a few factions when AoS was released, but it's been quite a while since entire model lines were discontinued, and to the contrary we keep seeing army books printed for old lines.

2. Put out a replacement battle tome for the Legions. Legions minus ghosts, ghouls, vampires, and deathlords. Legions minus the Legions. A hodge podge of corporeal undead without the mortarchs to command and define them, since they all live in other books now. This is possible, but seems unlikely, and notably the lore has decidedly not been moving in this direction. Vampires might be strong and useful enough to justify letting them keep their classic undead armies rather than grinding them up into OBR, but necromancers and wights? It's already pretty firmly established that these lesser undead commanders do not have that kind of pull on their own. If the devs intended for there to be a generic undead faction led only by necromancers and wights going forward, the current OBR fluff would not be what it is now.

3. Some other undead faction absorbs the hodge podge role by taking on the leftover Legions units. The extremely focused themes of the FEC, NH, and OBR factions makes them unlikely options. On the other hand, the units in question have already shown that they can work as lackeys in a 'vampire' faction. Furthermore 'inherent command of lesser undead' is an established gimmick of warhammer vampires, a core part of their lore, a feature more fundamental to warhammer style vampires than even 'weakness to sunlight' or 'hunger for blood'. If the devs want to convey that aspect of warhammer vampires in a new soulblight book, it would pretty much require lesser undead within their faction to do so.

I don't think 3 is guaranteed, but Imo it looks like the most likely option at the moment.

Neil Arthur Hotep · January 19, 2021

Well, @Sception, it seems like you called it: Soulblight Gravelords.

lare2 · January 19, 2021

Excited to see what Saturday brings for us now. Just 4 more days of work to get through.

Sception · January 19, 2021

HYPE HYPE HYPE HYPE

The leaked vampire lord looks SO SO GOOD. I love her so much, she's everything I ever wanted in a vampire lord model. Well, apart from the cool cape that can be optionallyswapped out for bat wings, and I guess personally I prefer swords to maces, but regardless she looks great and if that's the prevailing aesthetic for mor new vampire stuff (fingers crossed for the long hoped for plastic blood knights), I'll be very excited indeed.

Sception · January 19, 2021

As for how this leak relates to the theory of the thread, "soulblight gravelords" does sound like the sort of generic faction keyword for a faction of miscelanious undead that are lead by but not necessarily solely consisting of soulblight vampires. After all, for the vamps to be 'gravelords' there'd have to be some 'gravepeasants' for them to lord over, no? Furthermore, in a pure vampire faction, you'd figure a vampire hero would have to be more specific than 'vampire lord'.

All that said, without anything but the name and a vamp lord to go on, it /could/ still be a pure vampire faction. I'll wait for the saturday reaveal before I unroll any 'called it' banners.

Neil Arthur Hotep · January 20, 2021

Working under the assumption that Soulblight Gravelords will be a replacement for Legions of Nagash and will retain a lot of Legions of Nagash kits, I have been thinking about which current kits will stick around and which ones will be retired:

Safe:

All Deathrattle troops (Warriors, Grave Guard, Black Knights)
Wight King with Tomb Blade
Necromancer
Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon kit
Mortis Engine kit
Neferata and Mannfred (Mortarch kit)
Vargheists

Basically, all the plastic kits that still look good.

Getting a new sculpt/spiritual successor:

Blood Knights (obviously)
Dire Wolves
Giant Bat/Bat Swarms (I tend towards Bat Swarms just being out. Maybe a bat swarm endless spell, though?)
Deadwalker Zombies
Corpse Cart? (If Zombies get a significant redesign, the Corpse Cart will look out of place. It might be removed even though it's a nice sculpt and plastic.)
Vampire Lord (confirmed!)

Gone:

Wight King with Axe (Finecast)
Wight King on Steed (Finecast and ugly)
the assorted Vampire Lords
Necromancer with Hat

Not in the book, but not gone:

Nagash, Arkhan, Morghasts (Now just in OBR. Nagash might get rewritten to be playable in all Death armies.)
All Nighthaunt

Basically, I think OBR, Nighthaunt and Soulblight will be properly separated after this book, and the Soulblight range will be left without Finecast models.

New models:

Deadwalker hero and zombies:

Spoiler

Hero: