[tactics] knight venator anyone?

[jeanfluflu]

Hey guys, i hope each one of you are safe home painting models.

I am a stormcast player, mostly playing vanguard.
My usual list is pretty average, i don't look for extra competitive lists and recently i got to play against one of my friend who plays blades of khorne.

My list was the following:
vanguard1k.pdf

It was a 1k battle and he got the upper hand in the end.

Battle was fun and tough mostly due to his newly painted deamon prince (that thing is scary!!!! the command ability of this nightmare is terrific and the fact that he can fight at the start of the combat phase makes him a big nope to my list.... "shoot him already").

Anyway my two heroes for this lists are the lord aquilor of course and the knight venator.
As a sniper himself the knight ventator usually stay close to my raptor friends to make them shot during hero phase thanks to anvils of heldenhammer CA.
His long range helps him to stay a threat to anyone even far back.

Truth is for 100 point he doesn't offer tons of value for the army, he does one or two damages each shooting phase but that's mostly all, his once per battle ability might be good if it wasn't so random (you want to shoot a character with this, so it's most of the time a 3+ 3+ -1rend which can make it hard to pass without a luckstone to secure it).

overall i find him kinda meh, he's a nice support, the miniature is gorgeous, but he mostly provides regular cheap damages (joke is the eagle attacks did most of the job anyway).

My question is do you play him often?
How do you use him?
What hero could replace him in a vanguard army (knight azyros could be good but having to expose him to use his buff makes him more risky to play, knight zephyros can be a hero killer/follow the palladors to reach backline support...etc).

Thanks a lot, have a great day everyone!

Edited September 22, 2020 by jeanfluflu

[Sagittarii Orientalis]

As far as I know, the most competitive way of using Knight Venator is including him as a mandatory piece in Vanguard Auxiliary Chamber warscroll battalion. Even then, the warscroll battalion tends to get abysmally crushed by more recent armies such as seraphon, ossiarchs, kharadron overlords etc.

Other than that, Knight-Venator is the hero you use just because you do not want to see dust settle on the freshly painted model.

Edited September 22, 2020 by Sagittarii Orientalis

[jeanfluflu]

well as far as i'm concerned i'm only playing with friends and non competitive players so i'm prety far away from Hardcore army builds and other atrocities like this (150 plaguebearers list, tzeentch flamers....etc)

Glad to hear i'm not the only one who thinks he's pretty useless

[OkayestDM]

Back before the Sacrosanct chamber was released, I heard a lot of people refer to the Venator as a "bully unit". Even though you know he's not likely to successfully assassinate a hero, your opponent still has to take the fact that he might one-shot a support hero into consideration.

[Mark Williams]

2 hours ago, OkayestDM said:

Back before the Sacrosanct chamber was released, I heard a lot of people refer to the Venator as a "bully unit". Even though you know he's not likely to successfully assassinate a hero, your opponent still has to take the fact that he might one-shot a support hero into consideration.

I'm sure that if you tracked his damage across multiple games and compared that to many of the other 5- wound heroes in the Stormcast book, he'd actually be pretty high up there in terms of total damage done per game. He's a decent hero, but he just doesn't give any buffs, command abilities, or cast spells. He's in the unfortunate position that he's just a default "dude" sitting there doing his own thing, while most of the other stormcast heroes have some additional utility that they bring on top of their basic warscroll. If the books were changed in such a way that he did something else in addition to what he already does, I'm sure he'd be a very common hero. Unfortunately he's competing for a spot in a book that has a lot of other "must haves".

[OkayestDM]

2 hours ago, Mark Williams said:

I'm sure that if you tracked his damage across multiple games and compared that to many of the other 5- wound heroes in the Stormcast book, he'd actually be pretty high up there in terms of total damage done per game. He's a decent hero, but he just doesn't give any buffs, command abilities, or cast spells. He's in the unfortunate position that he's just a default "dude" sitting there doing his own thing, while most of the other stormcast heroes have some additional utility that they bring on top of their basic warscroll. If the books were changed in such a way that he did something else in addition to what he already does, I'm sure he'd be a very common hero. Unfortunately he's competing for a spot in a book that has a lot of other "must haves".

That's probably the best analysis of that model I've heard yet.It's a great model, but when it comes time to select heroes for a game I always pass him over for that exact reason. Even though I love him, other heroes just bring more to the table.

Edited September 23, 2020 by OkayestDM

[Kramer]

If you play mostly friendly games. What about making him an anvil of apotheosis  warscroll? 
could be fun! 
 
or get a squad of prosecutors and just use him as the unit champ. But that’s not the noblest ending 😂

[jeanfluflu]

4 hours ago, Kramer said:

If you play mostly friendly games. What about making him an anvil of apotheosis  warscroll? 
could be fun! 
 
or get a squad of prosecutors and just use him as the unit champ. But that’s not the noblest ending 😂

currently playing with the anvil right now.

I've written and i'm currently playing a homemade campaign, he's the main character and i love the model that's why i use him.
I could post the story right there but it's all written in ancient forgoten language (AKA french).

you can get some proxy for the venator with anvil 
Profile would be (with 20 destiny point to start, it's just the beginning of the campaign, i'll get into epic territories later):

bow:
18" range, 3 att,  3+hit,  3+ wound,  -1 rend  and 2 damages
Sword:
3 att 3+hit 4+ wound 0 rend 1 damage.

Fly ability and 5 wounds, 4+ save and 8 bravery.

almost the same as the venator use, without the long range (18" range instead of 30") or the big arrow of doom.
 

[Kramer]

2 hours ago, jeanfluflu said:

or the big arrow of doom.

Which you could add as an artefact maybe? Have him earn it game one of the campaign? 

but do share a bit about your campaign! How many players? What’s the basic narrative? How does that impact in game? I always love that stuff 😁

[jeanfluflu]

11 minutes ago, Kramer said:

Which you could add as an artefact maybe? Have him earn it game one of the campaign? 

but do share a bit about your campaign! How many players? What’s the basic narrative? How does that impact in game? I always love that stuff 😁

Well the campain relies heavily on storytelling, for now we are two players but another friend will join (me the stormcast player, my blade of khorne friend and later on another friend who will move and who plays the legion of nagash).

Here's the files i've written, there's a couple of pages explaining the context and developing the main characters, for the french speaking persons please enjoy .

 

this is the intro for the first battle (which we finished monday evening) i created a mini duel scenario that i can post right there too if you're interested.

My friend won the game so i'm going to write the rest of the story depending on that (basically what happens with this prisoner and what typeof curse did he got attached to him).
Spoiler he's possessed by a blood parasite, a kind of lesser daemon that feeds on the body and soul of his victim until he has enough strengh to materialize into the mortal realms, since my friend won his lord of war will be granted this power (so i created the profile for the warlord using the anvil of apotheosis).

Next scenario will probably be a hunt, after the loss of the prisonner and the unexpected fight down the walls of the citadel a small vanguard hunt will be gathered in order to track this mystery an take back or kill that daemon (even though stormcasts don't know yet what this is really about).

The daemon/parasite will need flesh, souls and lots of blood to sustain itself so i'll probably create a scenario where a source of life would be needed for khorne in order to accelerate the process (stardrake eggs? sap of life into sylvaneth forest?) i don't know yet how i will write this down but i'd like to play arround assymetrical game design and maybe use the tools GW gave us to fight a third foe before the undeads arrive to have unique and story driven moments (I love role playing game, so i though giving a little bit of this spice in to my favorite miniature game would be worth it).

Anyway here's a very poor translation with google trad of this story for the ones who don't understad french:

The walls of the cathedral rose high, the air was saturated with incense, and the sound of the psalms echoed through the rows of marble pillars adorned with statues of Azyr heroes.

Angelos loved the feeling, the freshness of the air and the familiarity of the place calmed his mind.
He let his main caress the stone and knelt in front of one of these grandiose figures, his mind was exhausted and he let himself be carried to the torpor of meditation while a group of magi from the sacrosanct chamber passed behind him.

Their presence still troubled him, even after so many years.
They had that electric aura that charged the air with great tension as the song of their voices vibrated like a distant or making planner throughout the temple a solemn gravity.

The day was almost over and as usual the evening prayer ended the ritual of his days, Angelos finished his psalm and waved his hand to bless this place one last time before leaving.

He did not have time to get up, however, when a large and icy cold landed on his shoulder, it was Aquilius his lifelong brother and Lord Commander of the Legion.

The man was of a tall stature and he always had this particular bearing of the head, at the same time friendly and warm.
In spite of everything it is the worried air and the body covered with his golden armor that he presents himself to Angelos.

"Bad news my friend, a prisoner has escaped and we need your help to find him"

"What happened?"
Asked Angelos

"You have to come with me to really understand."
The tone was imperious and serious, there was no point in discussing it any longer ....

Earlier a few miles away kharak goreblade with bare hands tore the head of one of his warriors with a Primal howl.

The assembly formed a circle around him and all were screaming for the glory of their leader, the tournament had been brutal and a lot of blood had been shed.

The guts covered the earth in an unholy, slimy mud that glistened in the light of the fire.

Kharak brandished his trophy with an outstretched arm and everyone screamed in heart.
"Blood for the blood god, skulls for the khorne throne !!!!".

Frenzy took hold of the men and they began to beat each other in fury as the slaugtherpriest entered the scene.

He approached kharak and took his head in his hand, he inserted his fingers in the cut throat and he started to wave it as if it were a puppet of flesh.

His body was shaking with spasms and he intoned a cursed prayer.
The words that came out of his mouth weren't human and every syllable that clicked in the air was like a stab in the fabric of reality.
The air began to vibrate and the viscera that littered the ground pulsed in unison with the cursed song.

They all knelt as blood rose in the air in an impossible movement.
The liquid was suspended in the sky like a liquid veil and through this portal a howl of magma was unleashed.

A mouth of fire and metal responds to the priest's song, flames and molten lava escaping from her fangs every time she utters something.

The air was now so heavy and the sound so loud that no one dared to move, only the priest and kharak still held their heads held high.
 
The ritual did not last long as it is rare to keep open the boundaries between worlds in the realms of sigmar.
In a final roar of fury the fiery mouth roared its final incantation as a red lightning struck the horizon with unearthly violence.

The magic crackling in the air faded in an instant and the hanging blood fell back in a sticky, dark rain.

All looked where the lightning had fallen, they had all seen the same thing, the silhouette of the City of Azyr lit up for a moment as the lightning struck one of its rounds.

Time had stood still and a dead silence hung over the assembly, kharak broke the moment with his metallic voice.

"It's time to get going."

Angelos and Aquilius had crossed the City as fast as they could to reach the keep, it was a great tower of gold and white marble that rose in the sky.

Sigmar's name inscriptions were carved into the Rock and the bars were purified daily as Liberator soldiers stood guard.

It was a fully guarded building but the most dangerous people were held in the highest geolles because it was said that the god of thunder thus held them closer to his gaze.

Angelos was tense and he did not dare to break the silence which weighed in these places, which he and Aquilius kept climbing higher and higher.

"It's here" Aquilius finally cut off after long minutes

What stood before them was incomprehensible, the heavy metal door had been shattered from the inside under the action of colossal pressure.
Most shocking was the impossible amount of blood all around them.
The walls were sticky and they were up to their ankles as liquid still spurted out between the joints of the stones.

"How many people were there?"
Asked Angelos

"Only one"
Aquilius replied.

On the ground stood the remains of broken chains as well as a golden mask engraved with sacred texts.
As Angelos inspected the cell his eye was caught by a glow that came from a corner of the room.

He leaned down and reached out to grab the object.
It was shards of azyrstone, a sacred relic carved out of celestial crystal.
These objects were held in the mouths of prisoners whose words alone could invoke torment and evil in these places.
Tied in this way no one could desecrate the purity of the place or ask for help from any god or demon.

"Is she broken?"
Aquilius asked.

"Better to leave asap, this man has a bite of steel but he will not outrun the dogs"
Angelos said.

"Let the hunt begin"
Aquilius replied.

[jeanfluflu]

Here's the duel scenario as well:

 

Both players have 15pv, their hero clash until one of the heroes loses all those HP.

Each round takes place in two stages, firstly the players decide in secret their posture for the next round.

Each player has three choices, an offensive stance, a defensive stance and a feint stance.

Offensive stance provides a +1 bonus to hit and +1 damage.

Defensive Stance grants a +1 bonus to armor save and -1 to being hit.

The feint stance gives a -1 rend bonus and a +1 hit bonus.

As for stone / paper / scissors each posture allows to gain the advantage according to the following diagram:

The offensive posture wins against the feint

The feint won against the defensive posture.

The defensive posture wins against the offensive posture.

The player who gains the advantage attacks the first this turn by benefiting from the bonuses of his posture, the opponent attacks second without benefiting from his bonuses.

Second, each player gets a secret trick, after revealing the postures this turn but before resolving the attacks each player rolls a dice, on a result of 6 this skill triggers.

Khorne:
The champion hits the weak spots of the armor in a targeted fashion in an avalanche of violence.
The khorne player can perform his attacks while benefiting from his posture bonuses without the opponent being able to retaliate, in addition he can re-roll the results of 1 to hit and hurt.

Stormcast:
Lightning fall from the sky, enveloping the hero's sword in a bath of blinding light.

This turn is canceled and whatever the result of the next turn, the stormcast player will be able to attack with an additional bonus of -2 rend and +2 damage.

If both players roll a 6 of the same type then the champions unleash their fury in a metallic and bloody crash, each hero takes 1d3 + 1 mortal wounds and the turn ends.

The battle lasts until one of the two heroes has lost all of those HP.

Edited September 23, 2020 by jeanfluflu

[Andrethegreat]

I use him as a sniper, I also put spellshield or Mirrorshield on him, I think the best way to use him is to sniper your enemy hero's, and you want him to have spellshield because your enemy is going to attack him with spells, well! any way. that's how I use him. 

[chord]

Back before the purge my Venator and Loremaster were the deadliest combo on the field.  Alas...those days are gone

[Juicy]

With a luckstone he feels decent, but without it.....ohw boi i cannot tell you how many times that special shot hit because i cannot remember it ever did.

[Milano]

Luckstone is a must have.  Equipped he performs pretty well for me. Star fated arrow hits 5 out of 6 times...and honestly one of the most memorable and enjoyable moments in the whole game. Will it hit or miss? Your palms get wet, heartbeat raises. Adrenaline. Fun.