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Mattrulesok

Your most disappointing unit in the game

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I am going to get some hate for this, but hear me out - Lord Kroak. 

Kroak is super good within the game, but a lot of that is value, and in particular his value over the point cost of a Slann.  But that is part of the disappointment. Lord Kroak is such a powerful Slann that his magic is still potent after death. On the table we get a better Slann, who is point costed in a way where basically the only reason to take a Slann is if you want a Slann AND Kroak. 

Korak-nado is also kind of boring to play. Rather than spells that impact the battlefield, and utilize terrain or movement or the fates, Kroak's main ability is murder facing support heroes that get too close (too close being a giant 22" bubble). 

It would be far more interesting and fitting to have a warscroll worth 500-600 points for Kroak. Giving a genuine decision between him and a regular Slann.  

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- Stormcast paladins, so cool but so bad.

- Stardrakes, while they can be really good, they do 0 damage against other heroes and monsters. All the epic artwork with them fighting other monsters I think, yep you will do d3 damage and then loose ;)

- Troglodons, GW reduces their points by 40 just a few months after the book release and they are still bad, hitting like a wet noodle.

- Gordrakk. He is supposed to be the Archaon of the destruction faction. His rules most certainly do not reflect that.

- Allarielle, same as Gordrakk although at least she is more unique in her faction. Being a god level wizard but with 0+ to cast/unbinds make her completely unviable for the job.

- Liberators, cheaper now but extremely outclassed in a fight with anything at similar point levels.

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4 hours ago, Scurvydog said:

iberators, cheaper now but extremely outclassed in a fight with anything at similar point levels.

Skavenslaves?

Edited by Skreech Verminking

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On 9/15/2020 at 12:59 AM, chord said:

Anything Stormcast,  Most Mortal Khorne units

But to me the biggest disappointment is the Celestant Prime.  In the novels he is such a bad a** and he looks so cool  But so terrible for his point value

No way

The Celestant Prime is the best depiction of Stormcast in the game. He strikes from the skies in a flurry of lightning, leaving destruction in his wake and before you know it, he's gone again, delivering Sigmar's justice on another battlefield.

The rest of Stormcast, sure, no argument. But hte Prime is worth his points and super fun and thematic.

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9 hours ago, The World Tree said:

No way

The Celestant Prime is the best depiction of Stormcast in the game. He strikes from the skies in a flurry of lightning, leaving destruction in his wake and before you know it, he's gone again, delivering Sigmar's justice on another battlefield.

The rest of Stormcast, sure, no argument. But hte Prime is worth his points and super fun and thematic.

Agreed, there's loads of competitive lists that have done really well with the Prime (often as an ally, but that's more a reflection of the state of Stormcast in general than the Prime in particular). 

He's also pretty handy for grabbing Auxiliaries - overall I'd say he's in a really good spot.

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Anything NH. 

With picking between units that do 1 damage with 0 rend or 1 damage with -1 rend, you often get spoilt for choice 😂

The book is full of magic and abilities that have 12" range, so useless for the ultra squishy heroes, as they'll rarely be able to get into range to use them unless you put yourself in range and hope for the double turn, knowing that if you don't get it those heroes are gone for the rest of the game. Then there's the basically non-existent casting/unbinding/dispelling bonuses, which was fine at the time, but sucks plums now. Plus the Briar Queen lacks the wizard keyword (don't know why, yes I've written to the rules team multiple times) so can't use endless spells or the spell lore. 

The synergies are mediocre at best, with many doing things with bravery, which hasn't been a thing in the entire game of AoS since Gitz book came out years ago. In the lore they are beings that cause fear and terror to all, yet in the game are one of the armies most susceptible to bravery and battleshock 😢

You're always forced to take the dreadblade as the general due to the generic command ability of teleporting a unit back to the general (which is really, really good and pairs incredibly with the dreadblade's own teleport ability), but it means you'll never see another general in a NH army unless the player is being fluffy and using Lady O. This is boring but I suppose fits well when choosing between your units that do 1 damage with 0 rend or 1 damage with -1 rend 😩.  

Without the incredibly spikey unmodified 10+ charge the army has nothing. "But you have fly and a 4+ ethereal and a 6+ ward save", yes but fly doesn't mean toffee when you get dealt a metric shed ton of mortals each turn or get charged by your opponents units that can easily cover 24"+ in a single turn, before dealing out such a huge amount of attacks and/or damage, that sheer weight of dice easily renders the 4+ ethereal and 6+ ward pointless and redundant. 

We have some of the best looking models in the entire game. And not only that, a contender for best overall model, which just so happens to be the most disappointing unit in the entire NH range, the Black Coach. It has a cairn wraith driving it, a cairn wraith who is a hero when on foot  yet for some reason when driving the BC lacks the hero keyword (it's not like it would be a broken OP unit with the hero keyword either). It's huge base size combined with it's fast movement and the need to be wholly within 12" of a hero, means it never gets a 6+ ward save in game without dedicating a further 90-120pt just to babysit it for the entire game, which makes it's durability even worse than it already is. It degrades quickly. And should you be able to get it into combat it can't punch it's way out of a paper bag. Yes it can heal units and itself but 12 wounds on a 4+ doesn't last long in the game atm, especially with the large amount of mortals bouncing around. This model really needs justice, it really needs to have a decent warscroll worthy of the sculpt. 

Rant over. 

ps. I love my spooky bedsheets. I just wish they had more varied rules for the huge variety of models. The book was bad on release and hasn't aged well and makes them very boring to play with. 

pps. I really do love NH as a faction, after 3.5yrs of playing them, I feel exhausted trying to get them to work in the increasing power creep of the game. 

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For me it must be a lot of SCE models unfortunately.

Paladins and Prosecutors have already been talked about but to be honest there are not so many SCE models that are vaible at all - in an super elite army that is supposed to represent the very best warriors of Order. Dracothian Guard are either to expensive or to weak, Stardrakes can be made to work but they need a lot of buffing and twisting to get them to work, while they just should be absolute monsters to be afraid of. Liberators should be a brick wall but feel like Goblins from Fantasy basically dying to everything in a matter of seconds. The list goes on and on and on as basically only Evocators, Raptors with Longstrike Crossbow and Ballistas are somewhat good from the get go. Man SCE really needs a complete rework 

Edited by Naem
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Excelsior Warpriest. Such a beautiful model, but it was stuck in a faction that was horrifically bad for a few years and then scrapped entirely despite being a beautiful recent sculpt. To add insult to injury, it was the only human in the game with a black skin tone and they never gave him the time of day.

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11 hours ago, PlasticCraic said:

Agreed, there's loads of competitive lists that have done really well with the Prime (often as an ally, but that's more a reflection of the state of Stormcast in general than the Prime in particular). 

He's also pretty handy for grabbing Auxiliaries - overall I'd say he's in a really good spot.

Yep 100%.  Think the reason people are listing him here is that he doesn't really make much sense within the confines of Stormcast, but like you say that is more a prob with the book.  He is lore and game perfect as a compliment within Cities of Sigmar though.  He isn't unfair or OP, but he is 100% functional in a competitive environment.  I love how he works if you just view him as a hamerhal character haha.

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2 hours ago, Trout said:

Excelsior Warpriest. Such a beautiful model, but it was stuck in a faction that was horrifically bad for a few years and then scrapped entirely despite being a beautiful recent sculpt. To add insult to injury, it was the only human in the game with a black skin tone and they never gave him the time of day.

Yeah, should've been put into CoS at least for sure. I'm not sure about it but apparently he got upgraded into a special Stormcast character now.

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men i love the exelcior warpriest! one of my fav models in game. I even want to go lethisian defenders just to give this guy some game time

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Agreeing with everyone on the SCE units, especially Prosecutors. They look bad-ass with two-handed weapons, and yet, they hit like wet noodles, can't hold a point, and are really there to get their wings tangled into whatever unit they're fighting. 

Going to add the Kharibdyss/Scourgerunners to this pile. Such a cool aesthetic, interesting and unique lore, and yet there's really no reason to bring any of them besides MAYBE the chariot unless you're playing a mostly narrative list. 

I think Plague Drones fall in here too. I love the models, and they're good for getting in the way, but even for Nurgle they deal no real damage. Plus their only reliable buff requires a demon hero within 7", so if you're not playing with S2D allies you can't throw them out to clog up a channel without support...which is exactly what they'd best at.  If they came down to around 150 points, I think they'd have a good place in a lot of lists, but right now if you're going full demons it just makes sense to bring ten more Plaguebearers and a Beast of Nurgle/Nurglings. Those are underwhelming as well, but it's more bodies on the table. 

 

Why yes I do have a lot of Scourgerunner/Plague Drones painted why do you ask

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For me, traditionally, it's been Wild Riders. I have ten of the cool old metal ones (the ones that look like an 80s hair band), but they often attack with rubber spears and then die to the return attacks, which is depressing.

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On 9/12/2020 at 4:04 PM, swarmofseals said:

While I heartily agree that the Blood Stalker warscroll is very disappointing, I think you are missing a key factor: hero sniping. Vanari Sentinels have pretty bad damage output for their cost, but the fact that they have good range and proc mortal wounds off the hit roll makes them good at picking off small heroes.

At 80 points I think they'd be good enough to see play but I don't think that they would be spammable. Their offensive efficiency at 80 points still isn't that good, and their defensive efficiency is merely fine. You might see some Kunnin Rukk style builds pop up around using Morathi and/or the mixed battalion, but I don't think builds with 70 Blood Stalkers would even be particularly good.

The problem is that as soon as Blood Stalkers become passably efficient (like in the 80 to perhaps 100 point range) they give the faction access to a key element that was previously to costly to really consider: hero sniping. One of the main things that keeps DoK honest right now is that they struggle to pick off support heroes. If you let DoK players pick off 5 wound support heroes for the cost of a 200-300 point unit then it might well unbalance the faction.

At 80pts their offense is totally irrelevant. They're 2 wound bodies with a decent resilience profile, an 8" move and a huge footprint. They don't need to kill anything. They just need to clog up the board, which they can do very well for very cheap. At 80 at least.

What other issues it causes with the faction is totally irrelevant. If they didn't want DoK to have a unit that can snipe, they shouldn't have made a unit with bows.  (Also, not for nothing but I don't think it's unreasonable for any 300pts of shooting to be able to off a five wound character with no defensive bonuses no matter what faction they are.)The point is that until their offensive output is significant enough to be worth at least some percentage of their point cost, they're ultimately so terrible that they can't be balanced by points reductions.

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