Knife to the Heart

[Tittliewinks22]

If a player controls both objectives at the end of turn 2, do they automatically win at the start of turn 3?  Would therr be an opportunity to roll of for turn to shift the tide?

[Graywater]

On 8/16/2020 at 9:33 AM, EMMachine said:

A Battleround for Knife to the Heart is basicly Structured like this (when you look at it like in a computer program):

At the Start of Battleround 3, the condition for Major Victory will be enabled, but you can't win at the start of turn 3 because the Check for Victory Conditions was at the end of last Players Turn 2. There is no check for Victory Conditions until end of Player 1 Turn 3 when Objectives are checked again.

Until the end of Turn two the Major Victory Condition is disabled you you can't win with a fast Army in Turn 1 or 2.

Edit:

If GW wanted that you win in Turn 2. They would have enabled the Major Victory at the end of Turn 2 (when the Last player checks Objectives) not at the Start of Turn 3.

I read this differently and have had it ruled differently than your interpretation at events. The "check for victory condition" isn't a thing really. The mission states that a player wins automatically if they control both objectives starting turn 3 onwards. Control of objectives is checked at the end of each player's turn each turn. Control of objectives isnt lost in the time between turns or rounds. Following that, if i go second in battle round 2 and gain control of both objectives at the end of my turn, i would be controlling both objectives until the end of the next player turn. Since I went second, we would be rolling off for priority in battle round 3. However, regardless of who wins priority, turn 3 will start. The victory condition is have control of both objectives, starting battle round 3. It is now turn 3 and i have both objectives. Therefore, I trigger the autowin condition.

GW has struggled with wording in objective games before. I agree that I think your interpretation is their intention, but the wording doesn't support that. They should have said something along the lines of "starting at the end of the first player's turn in battle round 3, one player wins a major victory if they control both objectives".

[EMMachine]

The Major victory criterion is enabled in turn 3 but checking for victory is at the end of a Player turn (when you look who controls objectives). So you can't automaticly win after turn two.

Only if at least the first Player has ended his turn 3.

[Tittliewinks22]

8 minutes ago, EMMachine said:

The Major victory criterion is enabled in turn 3 but checking for victory is at the end of a Player turn (when you look who controls objectives). So you can't automaticly win after turn two.

Only if at least the first Player has ended his turn 3.

Thats what we thought, but we could not find any source to back it up.  Do you know where this is written?

[EMMachine]

Well core rules Page 10 "Battleplans" "Objectives" paragraph 4 is the only point where the Check if you are controlling a Objective is mentioned. And it is at the End of a playerturn.

 

After it is the only point were in the entire turn where the ccontrol is checked  (and Knife to the Heart uses the Standard Objective Rules) the Check for a major victory can only be at the end of a playerturn, not at the start of a round.

[Tittliewinks22]

12 hours ago, EMMachine said:

Well core rules Page 10 "Battleplans" "Objectives" paragraph 4 is the only point where the Check if you are controlling a Objective is mentioned. And it is at the End of a playerturn.

 

After it is the only point were in the entire turn where the ccontrol is checked  (and Knife to the Heart uses the Standard Objective Rules) the Check for a major victory can only be at the end of a playerturn, not at the start of a round.

The only concern is that Knife to the Heart says "starting from the third battleround, if any player controls both objectives, they immedietly win a major"

So if they control both objectives at end of battle round 2, at the start of 3 they should immedietly win right?

[EMMachine]

A Battleround for Knife to the Heart is basicly Structured like this (when you look at it like in a computer program):

At the Start of Battleround 3, the condition for Major Victory will be enabled, but you can't win at the start of turn 3 because the Check for Victory Conditions was at the end of last Players Turn 2. There is no check for Victory Conditions until end of Player 1 Turn 3 when Objectives are checked again.

Until the end of Turn two the Major Victory Condition is disabled you you can't win with a fast Army in Turn 1 or 2.

Edit:

If GW wanted that you win in Turn 2. They would have enabled the Major Victory at the end of Turn 2 (when the Last player checks Objectives) not at the Start of Turn 3.

Edited August 16, 2020 by EMMachine

[Lord Krungharr]

Cool, gaming pseudo-code?!

[Kramer]

On 8/16/2020 at 3:33 PM, EMMachine said:

A Battleround for Knife to the Heart is basicly Structured like this (when you look at it like in a computer program):

At the Start of Battleround 3, the condition for Major Victory will be enabled, but you can't win at the start of turn 3 because the Check for Victory Conditions was at the end of last Players Turn 2. There is no check for Victory Conditions until end of Player 1 Turn 3 when Objectives are checked again.

Until the end of Turn two the Major Victory Condition is disabled you you can't win with a fast Army in Turn 1 or 2.

Edit:

If GW wanted that you win in Turn 2. They would have enabled the Major Victory at the end of Turn 2 (when the Last player checks Objectives) not at the Start of Turn 3.

I love that there are people in this community for who this is the easy way to make a point. This took me three takes to understand. 
 

but if you want the same answer in video format or a nice metaphor I’m your man  

Edited August 26, 2020 by Kramer