Azyr app = Discontent

[RuneBrush]

I can completely understand why some of you are angry that the points haven't been updated and Azyr feels a bit like a forgotten child.  However can we please not pretend we actually know how GW's internal processes work, nor that points are "an easy change".  The only people who know how easy it is, is the actual app developers themselves.  If you work as a programmer of some kind then you may know how you might personally code it, but that doesn't prove that's the way it's been done.

Sorry if I come across as harsh, but it's a massive bug bear in my work when people tell me "that'll be a quick job" when they don't have a flipping clue - another bug bear is when I get criticised for having not done something when it's actually down to somebody not providing me the information/resources I need...

As a few of you have correctly said, if you don't think Azyr is worth it, don't pay the monthly subscription if you've not already cancelled it.

[JackStreicher]

@RuneBrush it‘s literally changing some numbers - that‘s it (where or how those are changed doesn’t matter). It‘s not even programming.

This would be different if they had to add new mechanics of armybuilding etc. - which it is not.

No matter of the internal workings, what they are doing right now is a disgrace unless they demonetize the App until it is up to date.

Edit: One might argue that they are exploiting their customers since they know that Warhammer fans are very forgiving.

Edited August 8, 2020 by JackStreicher

[Mattrulesok]

Honestly it doesn't matter how long it would take to update, could be 1 hour could be 1 month, the problem isn't the volume of work being done by GW, they can only do so much. The issue is how they have prioritised their time and the service provided to paying customers. 

GW chose to work on a new product over supporting a product people were currently paying for. That's not acceptable. 

 

Edited August 8, 2020 by Mattrulesok
Fixing wording

[Saturmorn Carvilli]

29 minutes ago, Mattrulesok said:

Honestly it doesn't matter how long it takes to update, could be 1 hour could be 1 month, the problem isn't the volume of work being done by GW, they can only do so much. The issue is how they have prioritised their time and the service provided to paying customers. 

GW chose to work on a new product over supporting a product people were currently paying for. That's not acceptable. 

 

I would argue it does matter how long it takes to update since GW is charging a monthly subscription fee.  The longer they delay, the less worthwhile a monthly subscription becomes.  If GW wants to go the fire and forget route with few and far between updates then they should probably consider a flat fee instead of asking customers to constantly pay for a non-service.

[Mattrulesok]

Just now, Saturmorn Carvilli said:

I would argue it does matter how long it takes to update since GW is charging a monthly subscription fee.  The longer they delay, the less worthwhile a monthly subscription becomes.  If GW wants to go the fire and forget route with few and far between updates then they should probably consider a flat fee instead of asking customers to constantly pay for a non-service.

Sorry my apologies, what I wrote is confusing. What I meant was the actual time it would take to complete the update isn't important, just whether or not they have made the update and reason for delay. 

 

Hope that clears it up, will edit my previous post for clarity. 

[stratigo]

19 hours ago, RuneBrush said:

I can completely understand why some of you are angry that the points haven't been updated and Azyr feels a bit like a forgotten child.  However can we please not pretend we actually know how GW's internal processes work, nor that points are "an easy change".  The only people who know how easy it is, is the actual app developers themselves.  If you work as a programmer of some kind then you may know how you might personally code it, but that doesn't prove that's the way it's been done.

Sorry if I come across as harsh, but it's a massive bug bear in my work when people tell me "that'll be a quick job" when they don't have a flipping clue - another bug bear is when I get criticised for having not done something when it's actually down to somebody not providing me the information/resources I need...

As a few of you have correctly said, if you don't think Azyr is worth it, don't pay the monthly subscription if you've not already cancelled it.

A programmer calling GW out on poor programming is entirely valid.

 

I have no restraint calling out badly researched or revised history, heck badly enough researched history is actively dangerous.

[Joseph Mackay]

To all those saying “if we stop subscribing the they’ll stop supporting it” I’d just like to point out that the app and Azyr  are NOT mutually exclusive.

the app (access to the warscrolls) is free. Azyr that you pay for is only the list building feature, which you can already do for free via warscroll builder anyway.
not subbing, doesn’t mean they’ll stop supporting the actual app

[Thamalys]

I think one has to put things into context.

The development of the 40k app is a huge effort (the cross-referencing alone must be quite the nightmare given how dynamic the content is/will be) from scratch, hence I am ok(-ish) with the current version of it being rather awful (it really is. Fact). 

However, what we are asking for Azyr is a simple update of the points (5’ worth of work. For real.) and the addition of the new factions, which is basically the Lumineth and that’s it, I believe. This can be done very quickly very easily - I know a thing or to about code/app design and development, and even assuming the most arcane/slow pipeline, these changes should not take more than one week (and that’s a gross overestimate).

Can’t GW (which I STRONGLY support as they make this hobby of ours an ever-improving reality) spare / invest in an extra week of work to fix Azyr whilst whipping the 40k app guys?

I really think they can and that in this case they are not doing the right thing. Yes, 40k is the biggest slice of the cake and yes, some people, including myself, are still paying 0.99 GBP/month for a functionality that is simply not there, but leveraging our laziness is not the right thing to do.

I am not massively annoyed by this (nobody should, in my opinion these are first-world problems) but I do think it’s important to point out that the devil is in the details, and that this particular detail is out of place.

That’s my 2 cents anyway...

[stratigo]

The right thing to do rarely, if ever, factors into the business strategy of any large corporation. What is the profitable thing to do is what the decision making process is based on, and so, if relying on laziness is profitable, then they have no incentive to change anything. Companies are also, usually, rather conservative in changes they make and if they are sure of less profit, they will usually take that over the possibility of maybe more profit with a bit of risk. 

[Thamalys]

2 hours ago, stratigo said:

The right thing to do rarely, if ever, factors into the business strategy of any large corporation. What is the profitable thing to do is what the decision making process is based on, and so, if relying on laziness is profitable, then they have no incentive to change anything. Companies are also, usually, rather conservative in changes they make and if they are sure of less profit, they will usually take that over the possibility of maybe more profit with a bit of risk. 

I would agree with you only up to a point, in that most large corporations are strategic enough to forfeit a short range margin/profit if they think they can make it up later on whilst keeping the customer satisfaction high in the meantime.

In this case, they are not making a profit with the choice of prioritising the 40K app while basically forgetting about Azyr, as both customer bases (i.e. 40K and AoS people, where there is obviously quite the overlap between the two) are, I think it’s very fair to say this, rather unhappy about both apps at the moment. 

The clever strategy would have been to fix Azyr first (small job compared to the 40K app) and simply delaying the release of the 40K app. There is so much going on with 40K anyway at the moment that I very much doubt people would have gone “oh, but you promised us an app on day X, how dare you?”. Simply admitting that Papa Nurgle’s gifts have been putting some rot into the cogs would have been enough for anyone but the haters to understand.

As we speak, we have both apps in a seriously bad place, with loads of users unsubscribing from both. Bear in mind that the whole package with the 40K  app is 4.99 £ so it’s not unreasonable to say that they screwed this up badly. I, personally, don’t mind 0.99 £ / month as I am a lazy ******, but 4.99 £? I unsubscribed the very moment I discovered they claimed they have an app - only to realise the iOS version was not available (that did annoy me a bit, I’d have to admit... now the iOS version is up, but no way to get it to work if you have an iPhone 6 or older - what a joke...).

In GW defence, when they realise they botched the 40K release they did wave the subscription costs for the first month. Would they be doing the same for Azyr? I think that’d only be fair, as it’s been months we have been paying for a service that it’s just not there.

 

[Sception]

I have an older android phone myself.  Runs the AoS app just fine, but the 40k app crashed /constantly/.  Ended up unsubscribing and uninstalling all of 10 minutes after first downloading and subbing to try it out.  There's just no point.  Even if it had worked for me, from what little messing around with it I was able to do, I doubt it would have justified the subscription price.  As for the AoS app, it's ok for referencing warcrolls & core rules, but the Azyr builder doesn't feel worth it.  Not when warscroll builder is free and has a cleaner, more intuitive interface.  Even without warscroll builder, I'd probably go with writing lists out by hand on paper or in a notes app rather than using Azyr.  It's just kind of clunky, and AoS list building just isn't complicated enough to warrant a a subscription based list builder.

Edited August 11, 2020 by Sception

[Greyshadow]

I think @RuneBrush is likely on the mark suggesting structural, resourcing and organisational problems are the cause of the problems with Azyr. Not even a simple job is done if no one has been assigned and given time to do it.

Being angry may be taking things a bit far though. The free app seems to me to be quite good as a library of war scrolls. (Perhaps it would be nice if all the older war scrolls were typeset in the new format though and I am not sure how long it takes for the very latest scrolls to be added). I have found it very accurate and useful with the more obscure war scrolls such as legends, compendium and scenery scrolls. It would be nice to see it much better resourced. I hope the Warhammer 40,000 version sets a new higher standard of how things should be done.

Edited August 12, 2020 by Greyshadow

[JCar09]

We can say that we are talking about abandonware...

[EMMachine]

I don't use the Subscription instead i'm Buying the Books (even though it is most likely more expensive than the subscription).

I don't like subscriptions because as we see now it is a lazy way for a constant stream of money without doing anything for the product.

With buying the books GW has to do something to get their money.

[Baron Klatz]

Same, I had this discussion on discord recently and I can agree that digital is the way forward but I need my physical tomes and general books.

That's why I hobby in the first place and not just stick to videogames. Which even then I stay with discs and cartridges. I want to own my product, not have it lended to me with someone else still in charge of it. 😛

[Gareth 🍄]

 

[Nezzhil]

None of the bugs were fixed, the realm artifacts are the Malign Sorcery artifacts... The patch is a disaster,

Edited August 21, 2020 by Nezzhil

[hughwyeth]

It broke on my phone. Tweeted WarCom and they said an update is coming in 48hrs.....

[Gaz Taylor]

If you have any issues, try mailing gwapps@gwplc.com so they can have a look. 

[Grimblaze]

Apparently it was updated yesterday - I’ve now re-subbed. 

[JackStreicher]

There is still no update for IOS on the AppStore... I even reinstalled it to no avail.

[LuminethMage]

19 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

There is still no update for IOS on the AppStore... I even reinstalled it to no avail.

I did the same, was just about to ask... . 

[Kramer]

7 minutes ago, LuminethMage said:

I did the same, was just about to ask... . 

I didn't update it, as far as I know, but just now saw some changes in the app. A neat little 'show matched play only' button but no points... most likely that button was there all along and just now saw it 😅 

[Naem]

On 8/8/2020 at 3:10 PM, RuneBrush said:

I can completely understand why some of you are angry that the points haven't been updated and Azyr feels a bit like a forgotten child.  However can we please not pretend we actually know how GW's internal processes work, nor that points are "an easy change".  The only people who know how easy it is, is the actual app developers themselves.  If you work as a programmer of some kind then you may know how you might personally code it, but that doesn't prove that's the way it's been done.

Sorry if I come across as harsh, but it's a massive bug bear in my work when people tell me "that'll be a quick job" when they don't have a flipping clue - another bug bear is when I get criticised for having not done something when it's actually down to somebody not providing me the information/resources I need...

As a few of you have correctly said, if you don't think Azyr is worth it, don't pay the monthly subscription if you've not already cancelled it.

Sorry but that doesn't convince me. If a guy alone in the basement can do a better job than a multimillion dollar company (hello battlescribe) the company messed up and there is no excuse for that. 
 

Being understanding about this behavior will only make it go on, GW needs to understand, that things like that will cost them greatly and we the customers should make them suffer for it. It is bloody obvious that GW does not take enough care of the digital aspects of the hobby and it strongly needs to invest much much much much much (much much much) more money into it. 

Edited August 24, 2020 by Naem

[azdimy]

So my android app updated over the we and I am now unable to  open the app because of it. I was fine without the update since I only use to access warscroll and build lists with warscrollbuilder that generates text format that I can save in any text editor. I feel this update was rushed