Elite infantry in AoS

[mhsellwood]

On 24/08/2016 at 7:31 PM, Cookiez said:

Hello everyone, my first post here.

I would like to talk about the old elite infantry in Matched Play, which, in my opinion is rather unusable. Take stormvermin - amazing stats, probably the best elite in the whole game, but they cost 280 points for 20 models, 5+ save (4+ against 1 damage attacks) and 5 bravery (can be bypassed easily, but it's still there). Why even bother if i get 3 stormfiends for 300 points, which can shoot 2d3 mortal wounds each and hit like a truck or even like a freight train with dooflayer gauntlets.

Or grave guard, swordmasters... 5 models for 80 points, so probably you should take 10 for 160. I can't see a reasonable point in including them in the list. Ok, tarpits/chaff still works in Age of Sigmar (nothing more amazing to see for me than brutes, wasting their precious turn in which they should come as close to my ranged units as possible or charging stormfiends, smiting to dust 60 points 10 clanrats instead), but then there is a huge gap in overcosted (?) old elite infantry (should the brutes or retributors become the new elite infantry, 3 wounds each?), and in the end we got behemoths and elites of elites, like stormfiends or heavy cav like skullcrushers.

Do you have any other experience, you would like to share?

In Matched play my feeling is that part of the points value of any model is a kind of baseline "cost for putting one model on the table". This is because the game is won and lost by control of objectives, and normally who has more models. What this means is that having 10 models is prima facie more valuable than having 1 model, because 10 models will control objectives more effectively. In addition more models gives you more board control as you can cover a greater area - using 20 Stormvermin as a roadblock may not be the best use of them but if you need it done they will do it more effectively than 3 Stormfiends.

If you are playing kill everything to death type games, then units like stormfiends will be relatively advantaged as their killing power is what you pay for and their other disadvantages are less relatively important - i.e. if you are fighting to the last model standing then roadblocks are less important, and holding objectives is less valuable, so those disadvantages are less concerning.

In general I actually think that the categories the Jabber proposes are probably more useful than the old core/elite dichotomy. There are a number of aspects to consider for all units, and a balance that needs to be struck across the army as whole. So, a successful army in Matched Play really does need numbers to control objectives, and support units to buff units, and offensive units to pump out wounds both at range and in combat, and speed to get to objectives, and toughness to absorb damage. Different units bring different mixes of these things and it is up to individual player to determine the mix of units that deliver these things.

In this context, think about your whole army (say 2000 points). You may have filled your Battleline with 3 units of 30 clanrats. At that point you have probably ticked off the numbers side of things, so you may not feel the need for Stormvermin as you would probably be looking for other things from your points spend. On the other hand if you are short on actual model count, Stormvermin bring good damage dealing, reasonable movement, reasonable survivabilty, and good model count.

[DodgyRoller]

Personally I've found in AOS especially matched play that elite infantry defiantly has a place, Storm vermin were mentioned at the beginning of this topic as being too many points which imo they are pointed about right, yes they are 280pts for 20 models with 1 wound but then clan rats are dirt cheap to make up the numbers. I think a better question to ask would be are units that are 'too expensive' valid options in matched play or should they be left to casual play games. I watched one of Adam Sinclair's latest bat reps and he used 10 chosen and archaon but then had 2 x 20 blood weavers so he still had models on the table which I thought was a gd idea when list building, using cheap units to soak up damage so your stronger units like storm vermin can attack unscathed, I spoke to a member of the white dwarf team at the AOS open day and one of the things we discussed was that every unit could be considered worth it if you use it effectively, storm vermin are better than storm fiends in scenarios where the number of models makes a difference for example take and hold you need 5 models to hold the objectives.