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albionsangel

Need help picking my first army

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Posted (edited)

Hi all, new here. Reddit sent me in your direction as they (and I) are kinda obsessed with 40k right now and its hard to get AoS advice. 

About to start heading into the strange and mysterious world of AoS games. Been a follower of old world lore for a while, and a collector and player of 40k for years. I would not be looking for tournament ready stuff, but my friends collect and play between themselves (non-competitive), and want me to do the same.

For reference, my friends collect Skaven, a variety of Chaos Daemons (both Tzneetch and Khorne), and a third has just picked up his first set of Nighthaunt.

I have been having a look purely at models, and after falling in love with Lizardmen in old Fantasy, I of course see the appeal of Seraphon - though compared to the old range, the AoS range seems fairly limited. Sylvaneth has even fewer models, but looks so damn cool. Finally, I am wondering about Gitz or Orruks, mostly because they are fun models.

It would be even better if I could use some of the models for warcry games too. 

I want to stay away from destruction and death armies for a couple of reasons:

Nothing there really takes my fancy. Never been a massive fan of daemons or Chaos. I liked necrons in 40k, and I liked the old tomb kings. But I also quickly get bored of "yet another skeleton".

My friends play armies from those subsets, and it would be fun if eventually we could represent 3 out of the 4 groups, or even all 4.

The thing is, I already lose to my friends in 40k because Drukhari are a pain to field correctly. So I am also looking for an army thats a little forgiving, as well as interesting to model and paint, and that I could have some fun army building with.

So, does anyone have any advice for the armies I mentioned above? Is there anything just around the corner for any of them? How are they currently playing? Even if they are doing well, am I forced into a small handful of boring looking units to remain competitive? And are any of them likely to pull double duty as old world armies when they bring back fantasy (thus saving me a ton of money, given that Daemons and Skaven are likely to be directly transferable)?

Edited by albionsangel

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I messed up and now cant edit the OP for some reason. When I said "I want to stay away from destruction and death armies" I meant "chaos and death armies". 

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Seraphon are a great team to get into, they are definitely a meta team at the moment if you want to win but I like them for 2 reasons:

1. Range of models and teams, yes there is the kroak/salamander list expected to dominate tournaments but I play an all skink thunder lizards army which is very different but still plays well. 

2. Easy to get started, both start collecting boxes are excellent value and contain core units you will want in your army. 

 

Sylvaneth are an expensive team to play as you will need to buy lots of wild woods to be competitive 

Destruction armies are not my thing but they have lots of options within them for different armies. 

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Your group lacks destruction. 

Go Ironjawz....

Right now...

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, albionsangel said:

Hi all, new here. Reddit sent me in your direction as they (and I) are kinda obsessed with 40k right now and its hard to get AoS advice. 

About to start heading into the strange and mysterious world of AoS games. Been a follower of old world lore for a while, and a collector and player of 40k for years. I would not be looking for tournament ready stuff, but my friends collect and play between themselves (non-competitive), and want me to do the same.

For reference, my friends collect Skaven, a variety of Chaos Daemons (both Tzneetch and Khorne), and a third has just picked up his first set of Nighthaunt.

I have been having a look purely at models, and after falling in love with Lizardmen in old Fantasy, I of course see the appeal of Seraphon - though compared to the old range, the AoS range seems fairly limited. Sylvaneth has even fewer models, but looks so damn cool. Finally, I am wondering about Gitz or Orruks, mostly because they are fun models.

It would be even better if I could use some of the models for warcry games too. 

I want to stay away from destruction and death armies for a couple of reasons:

Nothing there really takes my fancy. Never been a massive fan of daemons or Chaos. I liked necrons in 40k, and I liked the old tomb kings. But I also quickly get bored of "yet another skeleton".

My friends play armies from those subsets, and it would be fun if eventually we could represent 3 out of the 4 groups, or even all 4.

The thing is, I already lose to my friends in 40k because Drukhari are a pain to field correctly. So I am also looking for an army thats a little forgiving, as well as interesting to model and paint, and that I could have some fun army building with.

So, does anyone have any advice for the armies I mentioned above? Is there anything just around the corner for any of them? How are they currently playing? Even if they are doing well, am I forced into a small handful of boring looking units to remain competitive? And are any of them likely to pull double duty as old world armies when they bring back fantasy (thus saving me a ton of money, given that Daemons and Skaven are likely to be directly transferable)?

Seraphon are probably one of the strongest armies in aos currently.

you will basically be dominating in most phases, thanks to having a ton of options to getting cp that can buff your shooting, combat and more.

 

So should you go seraphons, loosing most games (at least right now) won’t be a thing.

I’m not sure if they are very forgiving considering how many special rules they have, but we aren’t humans, if we don’t make mistakes.

The last update we heard of the old world, was a few month ago.

It gave us an idea how the map will look like, but there isn’t really much else we know about it currently.

It might be what we old veterans may have considered the 9th edition to be.

It could also just be some kind of an old world game playing around with like only humans of the empire fighting each others, since they were back then more or less separated.

Or it might just be a small Board game, like for example Risk or monopoly.

not much is currently known about the old world.

 

Edited by Skreech Verminking

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Seraphon is definitely the best army in the game right now so they would be a pretty safe choice. 

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If destruction is an option I’d advise Ogors. 

looking at the armies your friends play you don’t NEED to play the hot new thing to compete. Which currently is Seraphon from your options. 

give the Ogor range a look and see if they appeal because if you’re going to spend time painting, you need to like them. 

but big advantages of Ogors: They are fun and fast to paint, cool as hell models they are forgiving in playstyle while your still have some tactical challenges beyond just charge and kill, a 1000pts army needs nothing more than a start collecting and a hero that you like. the gutbuster side is a bit more expensive but there are a lot of eBay ogors floating around.  

also they are forgiving of in game mistakes. Due to the speed and amount of wounds you aren’t out of the game if you misplace one unit. 
also there are no real ‘pointless’ units. Some armies have a unit that’s just a worse version than another option.  For ogors that can only be argued for gorgers and thundertusks. Which both aren’t bad, and if your not aiming to win tournaments they’ll work fine as well. 

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Ok, thanks guys!

When I was looking earlier, I didnt enjoy the aesthetic of IronJawz. Too... 40k? But they might grow on me. 

What you are all saying about seraphon sounds encouraging. I think I remember something on Lustria online ages ago about how they were kinda bad becasue of how old their battlescrole was, and then how their new battlescroll didnt help a lot because they didnt get much rend. But you are all telling me they are top notch! 

I notice only one of you said anything about Synvaneth. And that was only to say they were expensive and that I need wild woods. Anyone care to expand on that? I think sylvaneth are the ones I have the most visceral "I want those lovely models" reaction to. 

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There are lots of possibilities to build plants and trees from different materials. Not saying it could be done easy or quick, but it doesn’t  have to be expensive.

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4 minutes ago, albionsangel said:

Ok, thanks guys!

When I was looking earlier, I didnt enjoy the aesthetic of IronJawz. Too... 40k? But they might grow on me. 

What you are all saying about seraphon sounds encouraging. I think I remember something on Lustria online ages ago about how they were kinda bad becasue of how old their battlescrole was, and then how their new battlescroll didnt help a lot because they didnt get much rend. But you are all telling me they are top notch! 

I notice only one of you said anything about Synvaneth. And that was only to say they were expensive and that I need wild woods. Anyone care to expand on that? I think sylvaneth are the ones I have the most visceral "I want those lovely models" reaction to. 

Sylvaneth - If you like those models the most, I'd pick them personally. They are just not very competitive right now, and you might want to look at the Sylvaneth thread here on this forum within the Order section (the last few pages will give you a good impression ... ) about how they play and if that playstyle looks appealing to you (as a Drukharri player it might look a bit similar, but I don't know much about 40K so I might totally be wrong there).

If their playstyle looks also appealing to you, there is no reason not to go with them, if you friends are not all into really competitive builds (both Nighthaunts and Khorne are also not considered to be top notch right now). 

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Sylvaneth has a lot of teleporting shenanigans with their trees. Pretty cool thematic army, will some cool looking models. I've seen people do season themed armies (fall, winter, etc.), which look pretty damned cool! And you're group doesn't play competitive, so why not? 
Gitz can have some pretty big unis - units of 60 stabbas or shootas. So be prepared for a pretty big paint job. Some cool looking heroes though, like the Loonking,  as well as cool faction terrain. As for orruks, if you don't like the aestethic of iron jaws, then you have savage orruks. Limited range of models though, I believe. And of course with Orruk warclans you can combine IJ and savage orruks.

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If you´re looking for funny models, Gitzs are awesome. They´re not easy to play, it´s true, but you will learn a lot.

Orcs/Orruks are easier but not as funny as Gitzs.

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Personally, I would go Gitz. In their battletome you have four different armeis; Moonclan, Spiderfang, Troggoth or all three together. Plus, I've always loved the goof factor of goblins. 

They also have gargants(giants) and with the Sons of Behemet(all gargants) coming, your gargants can play double duty.

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sounds like your friends play very friendly games and not huge meta chasers, id a fully recommend Idoneth deepkin here. They're a fast army. beautiful models to hobby, and have a lot of diversity in list building 

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Posted (edited)

I think that every army is potentially interesting and rewarding if you enjoy the models and play style so making recommendations somewhat difficult. I think an important aspect is to factor in is your love of 40k. So I think the important question is what do you want out of this game? 

For example do you play Orks? If you do play Orks, destruction factions will give you a host of kitbash materials and would allow you to reuse paints. If you do not play Orks, playing a destruction faction could open you up to building an Ork force one day in the future. Similar logic applies to Chaos although you are less inclined towards them. Eldar and Aelven forces can also provide you with some good model synergies. There are also some carry overs between strategies, as the armies largely emphasize similar feels across systems (elves are quick, chaos is tough, orcs are strong). 

Conversely you can build something entirely different and really embrace the new system.  Sylvaneth are very low tech and fantastical and would provide you ample opportunity to stretch your horizons as a gamer and hobbyist. Seraphon are pretty unique in either setting and a decently strong army competitively speaking and again will give you many opportunities on and off the table. I think that all of the options you listed will be really fun and greatly add to your group, but nothing is better than just having a friend to play alongside, so consider which army benefits your own enjoyment first and foremost.  

Kharadron Overlords have always reminded me of 40k tactically, but are aesthetically pretty unique plus you could run them as Squats in friendly 40k games (maybe proxied for Admech?).

Edited by Neverchosen
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Posted (edited)

As for the cost of Sylvanth it seems largely tied to the fact that they function around terrain mechanics involving a piece of scenery called Wyldwoods. They gain certain buffs for fighting in and near the terrain and can use them to teleport models across the board. They place one on the board at the start of the game and can summon further wyldwoods through various means (notably through spells). I assume for friendly games three would be an ample number but I have never played the army. The Warcry set Souldrain Forest seems like a decent deal but again I do not play the faction and have no great insight into their cost. They can also summon Dryads which are their basic infantry unit which I can imagine adds to the army's cost as well.

I will say that the Sylvanth start collecting set seems like a pretty good value netting you a monster, a hero and a big unit of Dryads. The unit size in the box is a little awkward though as they are a minimum of ten but the box comes with 16. An additional unit should net you 30 though which seems like a decent sized unit or a good number for summons. There are probably further hidden costs like units might get bonuses over certain sizes or possibly due to Spite units being very low value for points and a high cost for models?

Edited by Neverchosen

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Thanks guys :)  Lots of stuff here. 

The more I think about it, the more sold I am on Sylvaneth. I borred a friends battletome and core rules book and did some reading and then popped over the the order sub-forum and threw together an army list and will see what people say. 

After sitting on it for a while, I am moving away from Gitz. While I do want to learn new things, Gitz is a bit too far out of my ability range when it comes to painting for my perfectionism to allow. Plus I dont have the space for hundreds of models. 

Seraphon were an initial draw after getting really into lizard men in Total War a couple years ago. I got disheartened when I saw their range dramatically decrease with AoS, but then new things seem to be added fairly often. They certainly seem to be current GW favourites and I am probably looking at some easy wins against my friends if I went with them - especially with coalesced. But... there is just something not sitting right with me. And I dont know what that is. Almost like a part of me is rebelling against the idea that I SHOULD want to be Seraphon, and I SHOULD want easy wins. And they can do everything that Sylvaneth can do, but better. And yet, the idea of teleporting and summoning tree folk excites me, while teleporting and summoning sentient lizards does not.  

I will continue to think. 

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2 hours ago, albionsangel said:

And yet, the idea of teleporting and summoning tree folk excites me, while teleporting and summoning sentient lizards does not

A better argument won’t be found. 

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On 7/30/2020 at 5:47 PM, albionsangel said:

I notice only one of you said anything about Synvaneth. And that was only to say they were expensive and that I need wild woods. Anyone care to expand on that? I think sylvaneth are the ones I have the most visceral "I want those lovely models" reaction to. 

Personally I think you should always go with the army you like the look of the most.

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Rock the army you like the most of tbh. You’re gonna be the one using them. If you are feeling the pull of the forest with Syvaneth then go for it and make Allariele proud.

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