Heijoshin Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 Regarding the OBR fix: What are people's thoughts on the "Melee only" aspect of the new RR1's ability? Personally I feel its a little uncalled for. If it was just a flat RR1's (so basically a free Mystic shield for all) I would be super happy with this change, even as an OBR player. It would be a good solid nerf and still have a broad defensive buff. But the melee only does kinda gripe me for some reason. It feels a little bit unnecessary and just as a gut feeling, makes it seem as though they wanted to ensure Nagash still has some level of defensive utility with his CA in PE. Don't get me wrong, I am still pretty happy with the change, just that the "melee only" part juuuuuust tipped it into the "maybe that's just a bit too much" for me in my opinion. Especially as strong shooting is way more prevalent now. What are people's thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenborn Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 (edited) On 7/20/2020 at 10:18 AM, Chumphammer said: Some of the big ones i have seen: Salamanders now 110pts Flamers/Horrors up 20pts. Gaunt Summoner 10 pink horrors now 5 horrors Scourgerunner Chariots 60/150 now 80/210 Steamtanks down to 180 I just purchased the electronic copy; Scourgerunner Chariots appear unchanged. Hunh. Edited July 22, 2020 by Ravenborn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skreech Verminking Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 5 minutes ago, Ravenborn said: I just purchased the electronic copy; Scourgerunner Chariots appear unchanged. Hunh. https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/5lv2Q42hrIDrrqNi.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloth_Corfiser Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 1 hour ago, Heijoshin said: Regarding the OBR fix: What are people's thoughts on the "Melee only" aspect of the new RR1's ability? Personally I feel its a little uncalled for. If it was just a flat RR1's (so basically a free Mystic shield for all) I would be super happy with this change, even as an OBR player. It would be a good solid nerf and still have a broad defensive buff. But the melee only does kinda gripe me for some reason. It feels a little bit unnecessary and just as a gut feeling, makes it seem as though they wanted to ensure Nagash still has some level of defensive utility with his CA in PE. Don't get me wrong, I am still pretty happy with the change, just that the "melee only" part juuuuuust tipped it into the "maybe that's just a bit too much" for me in my opinion. Especially as strong shooting is way more prevalent now. What are people's thoughts? I can understand the impression that the nerf feels like it was too much. From my limited experience against Petrifex OBR I can say that it feels okay. In my mind the Command Ability Bludgeon paired with the +1 Save was too much to handle. The Command Ability is still crazy good. Mortek Guard with Nadirite Blades can come at you with -2 rend attacks due to this Command ability. Or when you look at Necropolis Stalkers - there can be attacks at -3 rend 2 damage. It was just always way above the powelevel of my Army and often I did not need to roll saves anymore and my (admittedly flimsy Aelf Army) just died by the thousands. I am not ranting by any means - it was just my experience. We will have to see how the change will play out in the Future. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Entombet Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 2 hours ago, El Syf said: That's all very well and good until he rocks up at an objective and wipes everything out. Faq him he cost 1/4 of army. There are other objectives to claim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStreicher Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 2 hours ago, Heijoshin said: Personally I feel its a little uncalled for. If it was just a flat RR1's (so basically a free Mystic shield for all) I would be super happy with this change At first I thought so too, yet if you think about it: A free mystic shield for the entire army as a subfaction bonus is a bit much isn't it? Maybe we've all been spoiled by the utterly over the tops Legions trait of the old Petrifex 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heijoshin Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 (edited) 40 minutes ago, JackStreicher said: At first I thought so too, yet if you think about it: A free mystic shield for the entire army as a subfaction bonus is a bit much isn't it? Maybe we've all been spoiled by the utterly over the tops Legions trait of the old Petrifex Haha yeah, maybe I am just used to being spoiled! 1 hour ago, Aloth_Corfiser said: I can understand the impression that the nerf feels like it was too much. From my limited experience against Petrifex OBR I can say that it feels okay. In my mind the Command Ability Bludgeon paired with the +1 Save was too much to handle. The Command Ability is still crazy good. Mortek Guard with Nadirite Blades can come at you with -2 rend attacks due to this Command ability. Or when you look at Necropolis Stalkers - there can be attacks at -3 rend 2 damage. It was just always way above the powelevel of my Army and often I did not need to roll saves anymore and my (admittedly flimsy Aelf Army) just died by the thousands. I am not ranting by any means - it was just my experience. We will have to see how the change will play out in the Future. I completely agree, and I do also definitely agree a change needed to happen. Despite what others are thinking, I think Rerolling 1's is a good change from my initial thought of it, as it actually hits Mortek guard more so than other units. My particular point is 100% just on the Rerolling 1's change being for melee only. I did some calculations, albeit I am sure they are all super basic and some who is better at Mathhammer can probably correct me: If you have 20 attacks, at 3+ / 3+ / -1 / 1 dmg, you get this much damage overall: Old Petrifex : 3+ save unit (e.g. Deathriders): 4.44 Damage 3+ Mortek Guard: 2.96 Damage New Petrifex: Melee 4+ Save Unit (e.g. Deathriders): 5.44 dmg (22.5% increase) 4+ Mortek Guard: 4.44 dmg (4+ RR is the same as a 3+ save - 50% Increase) - This change hits Mortek harder, because whilst other units lose the save, but get a RR1, Mortek already have a RR all, so they don't get anything "back" to replace the lost save. Shooting 4+ Save Unit (e.g. Deathriders): 5.93 dmg (33.6% increase) 4+ Mortek Guard: 5.93 dmg (33.6% increase - Because they don't get to RR anyway in shooting. I guess these calculations probably aren't giving the best picture, but I just wanted a quick look at the impact of the changes and try to quantify them really. 22.5% more damage in melee and 33.6% in shooting on average is fine of course. This particular change does hit Mortek more, which I guess were an added thing people had issues with. I'll reiterate that it's not like I am against this change. I'm just a bit perplexed as to why the extra disadvantage to shooting was added. I don't know from personal experience so much, but wasn't PE already weak to shooting? Or was it only high rend shooting? Given the immediate following battletomes, it does seem odd to add this extra weakness (not trying to say that "newer books being a counter is enough" so to speak). Edit: I'll try and answer my own question - Could it be that its to incentivise more aggressive play? So despite the lore showing a defensive army, they've decided to make PE the more aggressive hit hard faction, in combination with Stalkers and Morghast? Edited July 22, 2020 by Heijoshin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasper Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 Not sure why the reroll 1s is specifically to melee it doesnt really make much sense to me, but overall it seems like a great change. Gives you an incentive to run something else than mass Mortek Guard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimeElectrid Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 It’s peculiar that GW nerf PE resilience immediately after releasing an army that can ignore rend 2 and boost to 2+/3+ saves. Oh well. The way I see it, this change makes no difference to MW vulnerability, so no change there. It slightly increases vulnerability to ranged rend (+/- Katakros), but those were going to be tough anyway so 🤷♂️ It makes games against melee armies a little more dynamic, rather than simply bouncing off Mortek walls, so that’s good. Not that it matters all that much. By the time coronavrius starts to ease and the competitive scene starts up in earnest the whole meta will have changed anyway. We’ll have at least one new release (Sons) if not more, and hopefully the winter FAQs to hit ranged armies with the nerf bat (looking at you, Kroak). 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Blade Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 On 7/20/2020 at 7:46 PM, NauticalSoup said: Poor battle wizards. I think there was certainly a host of stuff in the game more deserving of a whopping 20 point nerf than these guys, who were mostly used to pad Hallowheart lists after you already had a sorceress or two, a knight incantor and of course the ubiquitous hurricanum, all of which are better and more critical to a wizard ball. I don't understand this, my copy tells me that Battlemages are 90 points just like when the CoS book came out. Maybe I'm out of the loop though, I haven't played in some time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evangelist of Cinders Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 7 minutes ago, Black Blade said: I don't understand this, my copy tells me that Battlemages are 90 points just like when the CoS book came out. Maybe I'm out of the loop though, I haven't played in some time. the points adjustment for Cities and anything printed after are in Free FAQs on the website they are different then GHB which reflects earlier FAQ adjusments 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJetski Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 Called it... mostly. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Blade Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 51 minutes ago, Evangelist of Cinders said: the points adjustment for Cities and anything printed after are in Free FAQs on the website they are different then GHB which reflects earlier FAQ adjusments Oof that does seem overly harsh. I wish they gave a justification. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vasshpit Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 54 minutes ago, PJetski said: Called it... mostly. Pic or it didnt happe..... oh... 😜 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuneBrush Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 On 7/21/2020 at 2:11 PM, Quasistellar said: That's correct but we've known about it for quite some time. Really, the GHB is pretty outdated and they could just update points in the app. Which they still haven't done to my knowledge (seriously what is up with the app delay it's just numbers that need to be punched in). I'm actually more upset about that. It's a timing issue. The points will be updated but GW's in-house app team is getting the 40k app ready for launch. Warscroll Builder has been updated though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grdaat Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 On 7/21/2020 at 4:33 AM, El Syf said: And Gotrek stayed the same. He is a negative play experience more so then Petrifex were in my opinion. By contrast in every game I've played against Gotrek I've never been able to kill him. I've tried swamping him with horde units to tie him up, which doesn't take him too long to chew through and i've tried the other route of sending VLOZD + Morghasts into him for high rend, high damage attacks (which leads to disappointment as he just shrugs them off) and then spirit host for mortal wounds which he also gets a 3+ ward against! I now just refuse to play against lists with him in as I have found it to be no fun whatsover to play against. People moan about how bad Nagash was is; he's another 340 more points than the dwarf and nowhere near as survivable. Play Drakfoot, who can kill him very easily, or just avoid him, he's not very fast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddpainting Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 Yeah, he is very easy to counter, no reason for him to go up in points at all. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Hawkins Posted July 26, 2020 Share Posted July 26, 2020 On 7/21/2020 at 6:33 AM, El Syf said: By contrast in every game I've played against Gotrek I've never been able to kill him. I've tried swamping him with horde units to tie him up, which doesn't take him too long to chew through and i've tried the other route of sending VLOZD + Morghasts into him for high rend, high damage attacks (which leads to disappointment as he just shrugs them off) and then spirit host for mortal wounds which he also gets a 3+ ward against! I now just refuse to play against lists with him in as I have found it to be no fun whatsover to play against. People moan about how bad Nagash was is; he's another 340 more points than the dwarf and nowhere near as survivable. Don't ever try to kill Gotrek. He can't be teleported, so he can ONLY move/ run/ charge– just avoid him or slow him down. Only use small, cheap chaff units on him, and NEVER charge him, just set up a semi-circle or line 3" in front of him that he'll either have to move around or charge. He'll WIPE the unit, but he'll have made no more than 3-4 inches of forward progress and killed a 60-70 point unit. Meanwhile, you're focusing on the rest of his army and capturing objectives. But, as I've said before, it's STILL a bad play experience because playing a game of "haha now you can't use your expensive toy" isn't really much fun either. :/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
123lac Posted July 27, 2020 Share Posted July 27, 2020 On 7/22/2020 at 12:08 AM, Ravinsild said: I didn't get the GHB this year either. I just didn't see a point to it. Agreed. Total waste of money. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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