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Disclaimer: I do apologise if this topic has been touched upon already in e.g. the Events section!

So. I just got the GHB 2020. I have painted a metric ton of plastic. I have written more than 20 lists for the same faction, and some 10 more following the recent points changes. I have listened to all the possible podcasts, Twitch streams, Youtube videos, and more about anything related to AoS (including videos on terrain I will never in my life have the time to make). I have even brought LadyWife into the hobby (ultimate achievement: unlocked!). 

Now what?

That is, when do people think we're going to roll some dice within a proper AoS Tournament environment? Here in the UK it would appear a couple of events are going to take place in Scotland soon... which is an excellent start! As I am not as well connected as I'd like to be, though, I genuinely don't know what to expect. Will the TGA Events Calendar fills out like crazy starting from September? And what about all over the World? Are people back to actual tournaments, or perhaps slowly getting there via a couple of games with their mates first, their local clubs to follow... and maybe in a few weeks (months?) the actual tournament scene is going to restart? 

Are tournaments going to look exactly as what we were used to (I doubt it)? Now more than ever, my gratitude levels for TOs are absolutely through the roof!

I'd love to know, folks - as I am absolutely confident I am not the only one longing to roll some dice and having a grand time at tourneys again...

P.S. I would never underestimate the seriousness of the present situation - I am just curious to know what people think it's going to happen!

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I think a lot of the major events will be dead until next year - meanwhile smaller and local events might start to creep back into life here and there. It will be a steady progression provided that locally and nationally we don't see infection spikes and lockdowns. Everyone is also somewhat worried about winter when everything suggests that the situation should get worse. Does that mean an extra 100 people infected a week or an extra 10,000? 

There's so many what-ifs and such going around right now.

Wargames are also in a really odd place; on the one hand the building and painting can be done soloe. On the other the actual playing is a corona nightmare. Two people touching models for the best part of what might be four hours. Even with a table between you that's a longtime indoors right now in a confined space playing. 

So in many ways its not a good idea t obe organising day long or even weekend long events.

 

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47 minutes ago, Overread said:

I think a lot of the major events will be dead until next year - meanwhile smaller and local events might start to creep back into life here and there. It will be a steady progression provided that locally and nationally we don't see infection spikes and lockdowns. Everyone is also somewhat worried about winter when everything suggests that the situation should get worse. Does that mean an extra 100 people infected a week or an extra 10,000? 

There's so many what-ifs and such going around right now.

Wargames are also in a really odd place; on the one hand the building and painting can be done soloe. On the other the actual playing is a corona nightmare. Two people touching models for the best part of what might be four hours. Even with a table between you that's a longtime indoors right now in a confined space playing. 

So in many ways its not a good idea t obe organising day long or even weekend long events.

The solution, of course, is not to touch each other's models, and playing outside.

Preferably when it's windy and rainy, so it's well ventilated and to clean everything you only need to spray soap over the battlefield. Scotland seems perfect for this.

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I think there will be dramatic regional variance for this.  Even within the same country.

One of my clubs is planning a 50 player event for the last weekend in August (in a playing area normally large enough to host 100 players).  I'm not going.

My other club is allowing drop-in/casual play on Thursdays, with masks and a signed waiver.  I'm not going.

There are many places in the world where either of those would not be allowed.

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we got 25 people events and soon in germany an 100 player event.  Im not to worried to be honest. I think if the numbers are still oke we slowly see some tournaments starting to take place again. 

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If you have friends you're seeing regularely anyway, that might be a good start. I started playing Frostgrave and Rangers with some people quite close to me and I don't see a reason why AoS could not work the same way, setting up a table isn't that much work (depending on your sense of disbelief), and you'll get a few games in.

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Posted (edited)

In the U.S., I'd expect a long period of waiting depending on where you live. It's a cluster here, always has been. Places are reopening, only to immediately shut back down. Some states are reaching their peak infection levels. Government is lying to folks in order to jump start the economy. I don't anticipate any (trustworthy) tournaments here for a hot minute.

Edited by Mutton

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Yeah, I think it's pretty telling that GW just released more solo play rules for Underworlds.

2020 Nurgle ain't lifting the quarantine any time soon. :/

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In the short run if you want your large scale gaming fix I'd recommend looking into the narrative Animosity campaign.  No it's not competitive gaming but it is a way to put the things you are doing in isolation or in limited contact gaming into a bigger picture and give you something to drive towards

This is by the guys who did the Coalescences international AoS Narrative campaigns in the past. 

https://animositycampaigns.com/

 

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, zilberfrid said:

The solution, of course, is not to touch each other's models, and playing outside.

Preferably when it's windy and rainy, so it's well ventilated and to clean everything you only need to spray soap over the battlefield. Scotland seems perfect for this.

To be even safer I'd recommend rinsing your models in a bucket of bleach whenever you pick them up.

When they're killed, just store them in the same bucket too.

(Edit: disclaimer: don't do this!)

Edited by a74xhx
Added disclaimer just to be sure
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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, a74xhx said:

To be even safer I'd recommend rinsing your models in a bucket of bleach whenever you pick them up.

When they're killed, just store them in the same bucket too.

If you don't like the smell of bleach, paint thinner could also work, or white spirit.

(don't actually do the latter, it will warp GW plastic)

(EDIT: Don't do the former either, but especially not the latter)

Edited by zilberfrid

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20 minutes ago, a74xhx said:

To be even safer I'd recommend rinsing your models in a bucket of bleach whenever you pick them up.

When they're killed, just store them in the same bucket too.

(Edit: disclaimer: don't do this!)

And now I’m genuinely curious as to what happens when you do put a painted model in bleach. It shouldn’t harm plastic at all. Some metals would oxidize, and I have no idea on what the paints would do.

 

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19 minutes ago, Fairbanks said:

And now I’m genuinely curious as to what happens when you do put a painted model in bleach. It shouldn’t harm plastic at all. Some metals would oxidize, and I have no idea on what the paints would do.

Well, I'd hazard to guess, it bleaches them.

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There are 25+ player events (2 dayer) already happening in Denmark. I really dont understand why people are SO afraid of wargaming. We obviously do not touch each other's models, dice, measure sticks/tapes etc. There are hand sanitizers at every table. People give each other space and you obviously dont have 10 bystanders around a table.

From my experience it is in general WAY more crowded in many malls or shops, so I dont feel like wargaming is especially risky in regards to COVID-19. Sure the ventilation isnt the same, but there are significantly more people moving through the same space in a mall during an hour than at an event for a whole day. There have been studies showing that COVID-19 can last for a long period of time in the air, so unless you are super scared of going outside, I dont see why you would be more scared of doing wargaming.

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Look out for more info on the TSportsNetwork Super Series.  I believe that will go ahead whilst tournaments can’t as it is only ever two teams that meet.

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I'd agree that I think there is going to be a massive amount of regional variance.  Partly due to the differing countries attitude and partly due to people's personal feelings.

For me personally, I've written 2020 off now from a hobby event / gaming tournament perspective.  I don't believe we're "out of the woods" so to speak, and within the UK different regions have vastly differing infection levels, so I'd not feel comfortable going to anything where it's necessary to be in close proximity with somebody else.

This might seem pretty drastic, but let's be honest when you hear that events in the past have had to put antiperspirant into the toilets to ensure everybody stays "fresh", I really don't hold out much hope for people keeping face coverings on and sanitising.  That's before you consider the generally lacking toilet & hand washing facilities in many venues*.  It only takes one infected person to infect the entire room.

* hand sanitiser on it's own isn't enough, you should still be washing your hands for 20 seconds every couple of hours.

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I'd also say that one reason I like to go out to things is to have a good time; right now I'd not feel safe nor that I was having a good time going out to a wargame session. The fun wouldn't be there if I'm constantly worrying if I'm standing too close; if the windows are letting in enough air; if the masks are fitting right; wait did he bump that terrain with a hand etc.... 

Especially if you want to go for a nice proper 2K or so game and thus you'll be spending 4 hours or thereabouts hanging around chatting, talking etc... Even with masks on at that length of time the mask will be annoying; the vigilance wearing and by the end you'll have either given up (or someone else will which defeats the whole situation) with vigilance or the vigilance will have taken its toll on you. 

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I'm itching to play at the moment but I've made this the year of hobby instead. Absolute loving painting at the moment, I am having trouble staying away from the paint station!

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Thanks, folks!

It seems that a good portion of "continental Europe" is feeling substantially more relaxed than UK people... that's understandable, I'd say, based on both (COVID-19) numbers and management. Debatable, of course, but let's not open that particular can of worms...

It will also appear that while some events - on smaller scales than what we are perhaps used to - are starting to appear, not all of us are willing to take a gamble. I feel I might be one of those people: while I'm absolutely craving some games, the risk-benefit equation in this case is borderline ridiculous: do I want to risk contracting a very serious disease (or, most importantly, am I willing to risk spreading it!) for the sake of playing a game with plastic soldiers? It does sound outrageous...

3 hours ago, Overread said:

I'd also say that one reason I like to go out to things is to have a good time; right now I'd not feel safe nor that I was having a good time going out to a wargame session.

That is very true. I guess some people (and I am not judging anyone at all) might feel relaxed enough to just roll with it - hence why I feel that some forms of tournament will go ahead across the World. Can / do we want to have a conversation about whether that's good for the hobby? I am not sure. The last thing everyone wants is to read on the news that a 100+ tournament turned out to be a cluster of infections two weeks later. Conversely, I have faith in most TOs and I am starting to see a number of bespoke solutions that seem very safe to me.

To roll or not to roll? That's a really tough one for me. Not now (that'd be a no-no) but perhaps in September, if the numbers keep going into the right direction? Who knows.

Meanwhile, there is TTS - I hear. Downloaded it, had a look, looks amazing... can't be bothered - yet. You lose so much, compared to the real thing.

4 hours ago, Gilboy said:

the TSportsNetwork Super Series

Yeah, I've heard of this one... sounds really weird to me. Very "elite". For three reasons: (1.) I don't have a team - I'd love to, but... (2.) I don't have much time at all - tournaments are great because with a lot of effort I can carve myself a time window which is for me alone, 24/48h, and that's it. They want a "coach" as well? Come on now...  (3.) This "bans" thing seems meant to be targeting people with a truckload of different factions and/or very comprehensive collections. I only own what I want to play, and I only play 2-3 factions, with a substantial overlap between all of them in terms of models. I appreciate this must look really cool as an event (I'll probably tune in to follow from time to time) but for the average player that sounds off the table... at least, that's my first impression - feel free to correct me!

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1 hour ago, Thamalys said:

the risk-benefit equation in this case is borderline ridiculous: do I want to risk contracting a very serious disease (or, most importantly, am I willing to risk spreading it!) for the sake of playing a game with plastic soldiers? It does sound outrageous...

I understand that the UK and US both struggle with this more than some others, we have it far better here in Denmark and besides some extra hand sanitizers all over the place, things are more or less normal.

I will add to the statement, that stuff like that is not outragerous. This world state will be here for a long time, most will have to deal with their anxiousness at some point, or not being able to enjoy much of anything. The world is changed, this will not just go away. Why do kids play ball in the streets in wartorn countries? That seems just as outrageous, should these kids not just cower in their homes until war no longer exists, surely playing in the street can't be worth the risk of getting hit by a stray bullet.

Well life is funny that way, we need to live and enjoy life, people in the west are just not used to having to live everyday life with any real conscious risk, but that is reality so many other places in the world. At least thinking about this for a second might brings things into perspective a bit more.

 

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Speaking from America, this year is only for hobbying.  Some people may be lucky and have situations with close friends that allow them to get some games in but it is not possible to safely run events like NOVA or LVO with conditions as they are right now.  My FLGS is considering running small, local events of up to 10 people and, in my opinion, that is doable but still risky.

The situation in America is not a "new normal" that we have to adjust to.  Conditions in America vis-à-vis the pandemic and our failure to appropriately respond are unendurable.  We are not at the same point in this crisis that many of our European, Canadian, and Australian friends were when they reopened.  We cannot safely reopen right now and should never have tried.  As a result we are now seeing a faster increase in cases than back in March and April.

For some added perspective, Denmark has had a TOTAL of 13,173 confirmed cases.  New York, Florida, and California have, at different times, approached or exceeded that number of DAILY confirmed cases.  Florida's record was over 15,000 new cases added in one day (July 12).  I know these states have a higher population than Denmark (5 million to Florida's 21 million), however that alone does not explain this rapid of an increase in cases.

We also have many people with the mindset that we can't let this pandemic harm our way of life; that "we need to live and enjoy life".  But in the face of a pandemic that is a dangerous attitude to have.  In case you missed it here's one such gentleman:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/california-man-who-posted-regret-attending-party-died-day-later-n1232675

All this is to say that I personally have no intention of attending any large event, Warhammer or otherwise, until at least 2021.  I fully support any event that chooses to close for the safety of its attendees.  Its gonna be weird here in the States for a while.  The rest of the world seems to have dealt with the crisis far more responsibly than the US and so you can begin to return to normal.  We'll be over here watching you all play games and go to events but we won't be able to join you for a good long time.  😞        

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Pst, there are online solutions to playing games if you're really itching for a fix. 

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8 hours ago, Scurvydog said:

hy do kids play ball in the streets in wartorn countries? That seems just as outrageous, should these kids not just cower in their homes until war no longer exists, surely playing in the street can't be worth the risk of getting hit by a stray bullet.

Your post has been rattling around in my brain the whole day. And this in particular. So thanks for that first of all ;) 

On the surface I agree with you. But the more I think about it the more I reach the opposite conclusion through your arguments. 

to finish the comparison, the kids you see on the news aren’t playing on the streets when the bullets fly. They play there the same moments the camera crews think it’s save enough to go out. And depending on your location, the bullets are still flying. and especially hard is that you can’t see them fly. 

now I admit it’s a heavy handed and a bit clunky analogy, but I do feel it leads up nicely to my conclusion. 
We don’t ‘NEED  to live and enjoy life’. When in doubt, don’t take the risk. Especially if it’s just for fun. If you need to work to feed your family that’s of course different. But in my opinion , if you can’t create a setting where it’s save to play. Than you are just going to have find something else. It is outrageous to take this risk. 

and for context I live in the Netherlands where things apart from social distance and extra hygienic measures much has returned to normal. It took a lot of discipline and hurt to get here so we shouldn’t waste that. And we luckily had it easy. 

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2 hours ago, Requizen said:

Pst, there are online solutions to playing games if you're really itching for a fix. 

This is a solace I'm having with AoS Champions going pure digital at the start of this year.

Also TTS and AoS Underworlds Online are tight.

Nothing beats a physical game though so here's hoping we can see the hobbystore light again without masks.

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2 hours ago, Kamose said:

We are not at the same point in this crisis that many of our European, Canadian, and Australian friends were when they reopened.   

We’re not out of the woods yet in Melbourne. We’ve just been (rightly)locked down again after a big spike in community transmission. My thoughts are with these who are doing it tough. Hopefully, our hobby is helping us get through these tough times. Thoughts are with you @Kamose.

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