So how does everyone feel about Age of Sigmar?

[Grdaat]

24 minutes ago, Ninelives said:

I struggle to share your point of view. I wouldn't have imagined Kharadron, Idoneth, Lumineth in the World-That-Was setting at all...

I disagree there, you can find references in the Old World setting to an underwater race suspected of living in the sunken Lizardmen city, and the Dwarfs were already developing blimps as a better way to traverse the mountains. It would not be hard to bring either of them into the setting as their own faction.

[Sonnenspeer]

51 minutes ago, Barkanaut said:

Used to like AoS but it definitely feels like there are too many old characters coming back from the old world and factions. It feels less and less like Age of Sigmar with each passing year and more and more like Warhammer 9th edition from a lore stand point. 

I don't know why they even created it at this point as its not the game I fell in love with. 

 

22 minutes ago, Ninelives said:

Oh wow, I've never seen anyone say that? 
Who do you have in mind? Apart from Gotrek all the others always have been in Age of Sigmar lore haven't they? 

I struggle to share your point of view. I wouldn't have imagined Kharadron, Idoneth, Lumineth in the World-That-Was setting at all...

I really understand what Barkanaut wants to say. For people who don't know WHFB (It took some time to understand this does not mean Warhammer facebook) it is just annoying to see lore inconsistencies, like a super power dwarf from a world that was, just to please fans of an older game system.

 

 

[Skreech Verminking]

1 hour ago, Barkanaut said:

more and more like Warhammer 9th edition from a lore

But isn’t it practically that?

after-all, without the old world Aos wouldn’t even exist.

The lore is even based on that of the old world.

heck we even have sigmar, who is more them just part of the old world.

 

[Grdaat]

5 minutes ago, Sonnenspeer said:

I really understand what Barkanaut wants to say. For people who don't know WHFB (It took some time to understand this does not mean Warhammer facebook) it is just annoying to see lore inconsistencies, like a super power dwarf from a world that was, just to please fans of an older game system.

As a fan of that older game system, I can assure you it's just as annoying to see him in AoS, especially when the more interesting aspects around him are always dropped in favour of focusing on him (like the society he was assisting in Ghoulslayer, which had an interesting mix of old and new ideas and didn't fall into the AoS trope of being too big to worry about), and it's also annoying that the writers can't seem to figure out what to do with him, or even how he should act, like having him say he doesn't know if he's a Fyreslayer, which in his mind are a group who works for money even if Chaos forces are the ones paying them.

In short I also don't think it was a good idea to bring him back.

[Grdaat]

2 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

But isn’t it practically that?

after-all, without the old world Aos wouldn’t even exist.

The lore is even based on that of the old world.

heck we even have sigmar, who is more them just part of the old world.

 

That's like comparing the modern world to Lord of the Rings.

[JackStreicher]

3 minutes ago, Grdaat said:

That's like comparing the modern world to Lord of the Rings.

Not at all.

AoS is nothing but the continuation of Warhammer fantasy.  Though the game system was overhauled.

 

[Grdaat]

Just now, JackStreicher said:

Not at all.

AoS is nothing but the continuation of Warhammer fantasy.  Though the game system was overhauled.

 

And Lord of the Rings was meant to be a mythical origin story for the modern world, making the modern world the continuation of Lord of the Rings.

How is it "not at all" like that?

[JackStreicher]

8 minutes ago, Grdaat said:

And Lord of the Rings was meant to be a mythical origin story for the modern world, making the modern world the continuation of Lord of the Rings.

How is it "not at all" like that?

Fictional vs real

and

Fictional vs fictional. =}

but yes I get your point which is correct ^^ I thought you wanted to compare the „fantasy-ness“ of Lotr to the real world -> WHF to AOS Fantasy

Edited July 31, 2020 by JackStreicher

[Grdaat]

1 minute ago, JackStreicher said:

Fictional vs real

and

Fictional vs fictional. =}

but yes I get your point which is correct ^^ I thought you wanted to compare the „fantasy-ness“ of Lotr to the real world

My point is the modern world is just as different to Lord of the Rings as Age of Sigmar is to Warhammer Fantasy. It doesn't matter if one is supposed to come before the other, that does very little to tie them together.

[JackStreicher]

4 hours ago, Grdaat said:

My point is the modern world is just as different to Lord of the Rings as Age of Sigmar is to Warhammer Fantasy. It doesn't matter if one is supposed to come before the other, that does very little to tie them together.

And that I highly disagree with. There are way too many commonalities: Winds of Magic, the races, the gods, the great enemy and mich much More.

One might argue that it‘s the same as WHF with a more vague setting, more god involvement and 8 Plains  instead of three continents.

 

The only thing reality has in common with LotR is humans and Eru Illuvatar which is God (Christian) in less cringy.

[Skreech Verminking]

7 hours ago, Grdaat said:

That's like comparing the modern world to Lord of the Rings.

I’m not sure how this would be a comparison.

after all aos is the continuation of what we once knew as the 8th edition fantasy.

The whole fluff and lore is based on the old world dying and a new world, which we now know as the age of sigmar, rising of its ashes.

The chaos Gods, Sigmar, Teclis, Gotrek, Gorkamorka, the Gods of the Dawis, and more, all existed in the old world and are literally the same being as they were back then.

Sure the rules are different, but that really isn’t a reason to consider aos a game system that has nothing to do with the old world 

Edited July 31, 2020 by Skreech Verminking

[JPjr]

this actually has me thinking... what would AoS look like if they actually  had given themselves much more of a clean break from WHFB.

imagine they'd kept the central conceits. The End Times happened, the winds of magic went haywire, the world blew up and then the winds coalesced into the magical mystical mysterious Mortal Realms that we all know and love today.

but what if they'd then started from scratch, declared that WHFB models were WHFB models and not usable at all in AoS and they wouldn't let the new game/setting be constrained by trying to shoehorn in or reinvent old factions.

complete year zero, scorched earth policy.

now the answer would probably be that it would resemble a game with hardly any players but if it had taken off from scratch, if they could have created a whole new set of 'races', creatures and the like, not just ramped up existing themes but totally reworked what an elf or dwarf was (if they even included them), oh what wonders would we have seen?

 

 

[Sleboda]

7 hours ago, Ninelives said:

 Apart from Gotrek all the others always have been in Age of Sigmar lore haven't they? 

Gotrek is actually the only retread I hate seeing in AoS. It's lazy, weak pandering in my opinion. Not to mention, they had to change the rules of the game just for him in order to shoehorn him in and sell the model. Yuck. It's one of the very few missteps GW has made in the last few years.

 

Let the guy finally succeed in fulfilling his oath.

[Banshee1978]

I think AOS is quite simpel in terms of basic rule set. But as easy as the basic rules are the dozens of special abilities,buffs rerolls etc make the game tough to master. In the early days you could quickly play different armies as only equipment and statistics were changing. Nowadays you have to use AOS reminders for you army to have any chance at all to remember everything. At least as long as you play just a game per month and like to try out several armies.

[Vomikron]

I like AoS and WHFB for different reasons. Lore and setting wise I liken Age of Sigmar to the Greek Myths and WHFB to a Homeric epic. 

[Grdaat]

2 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

I’m not sure how this would be a comparison.

after all aos is the continuation of what we once knew as the 8th edition fantasy.

The whole fluff and lore is based on the old world dying and a new world, which we now know as the age of sigmar, rising of its ashes.

I've already explained it above, but I'll do it again because you missed it. The modern world is supposed to be a continuation of the Lord of the Rings trilogy, ie Lord of the Rings is a mythical origin story for the modern world. That's how it's a comparison, it's supposed to come before, but the modern world is just as different to middle earth as AoS is to Fantasy.

2 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

The chaos Gods, Sigmar, Teclis, Gotrek, Gorkamorka, the Gods of the Dawis, and more, all existed in the old world and are literally the same being as they were back then.

They're not the same, characters act out of character, people who died are back without explanation while others who died are not, and Gorkamorka is new.

2 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Sure the rules are different, but that really isn’t a reason to consider aos a game system that has nothing to do with the old world 

The rules are different, the setting is different, the factions are different, the lore is different, the scale is different, the only thing that is the same is some characters have the same names, that's it. 

[Grdaat]

4 hours ago, JackStreicher said:

And that I highly disagree with. There are way too many commonalities: Winds of Magic, the races, the gods, the great enemy and mich much More.

All of those work much differently than they used to. The winds were not actual lands you could walk on or live in, and their origin is also different since they used to come from the Realm of Chaos. The races are only similiar in name, and the same goes for the non-chaos gods.

4 hours ago, JackStreicher said:

One might argue that it‘s the same as WHF with a more vague setting, more god involvement and 8 Plains  instead of three continents.

Then that person would be very ignorant and making a bad faith argument, since you cannot normally cross between these plains without hoping through dimension gates, the plains themselves are nothing like the Old World and neither is the setting.

In short, you'd be claiming a shed is a castle because they both have four sides, a roof, a front, a back, and they're built upon the ground.

4 hours ago, JackStreicher said:

The only thing reality has in common with LotR is humans and Eru Illuvatar which is God (Christian) in less cringy.

In other words, it has just as much in common if we keep it to your vague criteria above. The explanation in LotR for the other fantasy races is they're still around, we just can't see/notice them (Elves, Dwarves, Ents) or they're now indistinguishable from humans (Hobbits).

With that mindset I could make the claim that the modern world as a setting is just like LotR, and I'd be just as wrong as somebody claiming AoS is just like WHFB.

[Baron Klatz]

11 hours ago, Barkanaut said:

Used to like AoS but it definitely feels like there are too many old characters coming back from the old world and factions. It feels less and less like Age of Sigmar with each passing year and more and more like Warhammer 9th edition from a lore stand point. 

I don't know why they even created it at this point as its not the game I fell in love with. 

It's just some older lore staples that serve as winks to old fans.

Honestly if you look up all the new characters native to the realms you get 50 characters for every returning character. Better yet is that the returning characters have to change and adapt to the new setting of the Mortal Realms as everything is new and different, many times the characters have to drastically change themselves like many of the new gods, Eltharion being a living suit of armor and Gotrek becoming a avatar that completely shifts his old views to a new brighter future.

Edit: Really unless they've returned as a demi-god like Archaon or Gotrek then they're in name only like Gelt as a Stormcast obsessed with the realms & hidden gods or Snarsnik a living comet that orbits da bad moon.

In fact that's the very purpose of avatar-Gotrek as shown in the Realmslayer interview:

"Bringing an Old World classic like Gotrek to the Age of Sigmar was honestly the best bit. He hates that dwarfs now ride magmadroths. He hates that you can’t get a Bugman’s anywhere. He hates that Teclis is a god now. From my very first thoughts on this I wanted Gotrek to represent the old fan who never got on board with the Age of Sigmar. He’s the guy who snarks on message boards, who closes his eyes and prophecies the doom of Games Workshop. He’s the guy who sets fire to his Tomb Kings. But he’s in the Age of Sigmar now, he’s got to deal with it, and in doing so, reluctantly acknowledges that there’s a place for him in it."

So the old returns are very much in character for Age of Sigmar and it's brand new direction and creations because they're not just returning, they're changing.

That's the entire point of AoS, changing and challenging old ideas to create brand new ones with endless possibilities like the infinite realms themselves.

Edited July 31, 2020 by Baron Klatz

[Grdaat]

Just now, Baron Klatz said:

In fact that's the very purpose of avatar-Gotrek as shown in the Realmslayer interview:

"Bringing an Old World classic like Gotrek to the Age of Sigmar was honestly the best bit. He hates that dwarfs now ride magmadroths. He hates that you can’t get a Bugman’s anywhere. He hates that Teclis is a god now. From my very first thoughts on this I wanted Gotrek to represent the old fan who never got on board with the Age of Sigmar. He’s the guy who snarks on message boards, who closes his eyes and prophecies the doom of Games Workshop. He’s the guy who sets fire to his Tomb Kings. But he’s in the Age of Sigmar now, he’s got to deal with it, and in doing so, reluctantly acknowledges that there’s a place for him in it."

So the old returns are very much in character for Age of Sigmar and it's brand new direction and creations because they're not just returning, they're changing.

That's the entire point of AoS, changing and challenging old ideas to create brand new ones with endless possibilities like the infinite realms themselves.

While I get what they're going for, I would've been much happier if they didn't do that because trying to have somebody like that while also reminding you again and again and again that the old setting they're from is gone just feels like they're rubbing salt in the wound. I know they don't intend for it, but it still feels like mockery.

[Baron Klatz]

Eh, to some it will and to some it's just the ticket. Avatar-Gotrek and Realmslayer have been instrumental in getting a flood of World-that-was fans to try the new game and setting and actually enjoy it that the gamble paid off splendidly. Reddit was swamped by "Well looks like i'm playing AoS now." and Realmslayer has come up time and time again by fans saying why they moved over to the new AoS lore.

When building bridges it's expected some will burn down but that doesn't stop the successful ones from helping tons of new people over.

Edited July 31, 2020 by Baron Klatz

[Skreech Verminking]

37 minutes ago, Grdaat said:

1I've already explained it above, but I'll do it again because you missed it. The modern world is supposed to be a continuation of the Lord of the Rings trilogy, ie Lord of the Rings is a mythical origin story for the modern world. That's how it's a comparison, it's supposed to come before, but the modern world is just as different to middle earth as AoS is to Fantasy.

2They're not the same, characters act out of character, people who died are back without explanation while others who died are not, and Gorkamorka is new.

3The rules are different, the setting is different, the factions are different, the lore is different, the scale is different, the only thing that is the same is some characters have the same names, that's it. 

1with the modern world, are we basically talking about the world, we people are living in right now, because if that is the case, then well then I didn’t know that people compared our world with that of the lotr.

2. No literally all the gods that existed back then (the horned rat, Khorne, tzeentch, etc.) came from the old world.

it is even written in the skaventide battletome how The great horned rat just crabbed a huge junk of the ratmen, saving them from the doom that came upon the Old world.

Teclis still has memories of his past trying to recreate what ones were his fellow brethren.

Gorkamorka, is even been written as Gork and Mork fusing into one great god, both of which existed in the old world.

And now we have Gotrek, who is literally grumbling about how the old world was better.

How can all of those stories, not link the age of sigmar to what we ones knew as the old world?

3I don’t know.

Skaven are basically still skaven, doing the skaveny stuff the did before.

Orks are still looking for a good beating.

And Gloomspite gitz, well they went in living in fortresses build the dwarfen empire, to living in probably taken dwarfen fortresses and cities, beneath the earth, and still doing their stabbedy stabbings.

Sure some Dwarfs may have chosen to take of into the skies.

and Some factions have joined forces.

and instead of a World we have now a huge ton of Realms.

But the old world is still a part of the age of sigmar trilogy, if you like it or not.

 

 

[Baron Klatz]

21 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

But the old world is still a part of the age of sigmar trilogy, if you like it or not.

Well of course, the God-king can literally look at it through his window.

 

[Grdaat]

14 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

1with the modern world, are we basically talking about the world, we people are living in right now, because if that is the case, then well then I didn’t know that people compared our world with that of the lotr.

Yes, like I said it was meant to be a mythical origin story to the modern world.

14 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

2. No literally all the gods that existed back then (the horned rat, Khorne, tzeentch, etc.) came from the old world.

it is even written in the skaventide battletome how The great horned rat just crabbed a huge junk of the ratmen, saving them from the doom that came upon the Old world.

Teclis still has memories of his past trying to recreate what ones were his fellow brethren.

Gorkamorka, is even been written as Gork and Mork fusing into one great god, both of which existed in the old world.

And now we have Gotrek, who is literally grumbling about how the old world was better.

How can all of those stories, not link the age of sigmar to what we ones knew as the old world?

Because they're acting out of character. It doesn't matter if they have the same names when they don't act like their old selves. I already went over this above.

14 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

3I don’t know.

Skaven are basically still skaven, doing the skaveny stuff the did before.

They're also working with Chaos forces regularly and their methods and goals have changed as a result.

14 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Orks are still looking for a good beating.

And Gloomspite gitz, well they went in living in fortresses build the dwarfen empire, to living in probably taken dwarfen fortresses and cities, beneath the earth, and still doing their stabbedy stabbings.

That's different, Orcs in Fantasy were more motivated by greed than lust for battle with the exception of Black Orcs. One of the most prominent is known for taking territory then extorting travelers who'd pass through it because he wanted gold (it also led to his death when he saw Thorgrim's golden throne and decided he wanted it). Those Greenskins were also known for having other motivations and aspirations, one of them for example wanted to steal a lot of Bugman's beer so he could create a force to rival Grom's, so that he'd be looked at the same way.

Those Greenskins are now just gone.

14 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Sure some Dwarfs may have chosen to take of into the skies.

and Some factions have joined forces.

and instead of a World we have now a huge ton of Realms.

And that's the same how?

14 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

But the old world is still a part of the age of sigmar trilogy, if you like it or not.

It's a part of it, but it's not the same.

[Beliman]

I think that nobody can't deny that AoS is the continuation of Fantasy. Of course AoS is really diferent form the Old World but that's a plus, it would be hard for me (as a fan of the Old World) to be a simple copy. If we want to look just for the diference and why they are diferent, that's fine, but in my opinion, it's a bit pointless. 

About AoS characters, I think that there isn't any  carbon-copy from Fantasy:

• Some were addapted because they had miniatures and the lore just shoehorned them.
• Others are just a link to the past and  they were used with that in mind.
• Others are completely new and they didn't have any type of release in Fantasy.
• Others are an evolution (or had a new development than before if you prefer or you are just salty and don't accept AoS As an evolution).
• etc...

You get the point. 

Edited July 31, 2020 by Beliman

[Skreech Verminking]

7 minutes ago, Grdaat said:

It's a part of it, but it's not the same.

Ok I agrees with you on that.

it is definitely not the same, but can still be considered as the 9th age of fantasy.

considering that it is a part of the the lore.

and has many pieces of the old world in it 

ps: the coal of the skaven hasn’t changed that much.

in the old world they were interested in ruling the world as the supreme being in the world.

And now it is basically the same, with them wanting to be the supreme ruling faction in all 13realms.

sure they considered a chaos faction by now, but like the stories have proven to be, you can’t trust them.

they might fight with you guys for a bit, before leaving you to die-die.

it is Basically  The same in the old world.
there is a reason why a true mixed Skaventide army can’t have allies😝