So how does everyone feel about Age of Sigmar?

[Grdaat]

7 minutes ago, Baron Klatz said:

Well Alarielle is, in a way.

"Currently it is a city that never sleeps, its industry unhalting. To this day Alarielle is still trying to retake the city's grounds via raining fast-growing plants that require fast removal."

If they have a vegan diet they're set.

How would she retake it by giving them food? That makes no sense.

7 minutes ago, Baron Klatz said:

I love that too about him. He's the (un)living incarnation of "victors write the history books".

With how smugly he thought himself as still undefeated despite being killed by Archaon leaves no doubt in my mind that if he conquered the Eight-points he'd make sure the ink would smear on that bit of trivia.

I thought he called himself undefeated because his current body was undefeated, so any loss never counted so long as he swapped bodies.

At least according to Phil Kelly that's how it worked.

[Baron Klatz]

8 minutes ago, Grdaat said:

How would she retake it by giving them food? That makes no sense.

I mean it was a joke but where there's a will there's a way. Wouldn't be fun to live of salads made of regular leaves but needs must.

Though in "Auction of Blood" showed one of the plant infestations was colorful spores that grew on metal walls and even a flock of birds had sprouts on them from preaching near there so purified & fried mushrooms could be on the menu.

Maybe a little aetherquarz wine on the side to catch any magic impurities.

8 minutes ago, Grdaat said:

I thought he called himself undefeated because his current body was undefeated, so any loss never counted so long as he swapped bodies.

Yeah, probably would have the defeated bodies burnt so there's no evidence with his pure new one to claim absolute victory.

Edited July 16, 2020 by Baron Klatz

[Grdaat]

8 minutes ago, xking said:

"Dark harvest" showed that the city of graywater has many farming settlements. They drain the swamps to make farmland, just so you know former swamps and marshlands make great farmlands due to the high quality and fertile soil.  This combined with them being in the realm of life means they can grow a significant portion of their own food.  This is not including other food and they can get from trade through their grand highway and their realmgate.

(I believe you can also make  fisheries in a swamp land)

If you don't read novels and short stories or books at all, you can't really appreciate the setting and you won't have as deep of an understanding of things. Even reading the soulbound RPG book would help, lots of stuff in there.

You really shouldn't need to read supplemental material to get that kind of info, plenty of settings managed that sort of world building just fine without relying on other books, and their own supplements would introduce new elements.

[Baron Klatz]

53 minutes ago, xking said:

This combined with them being in the realm of life means they can grow a significant portion of their own food.

This is the main one to me. In a realm where people can find life being born out of the ground and literal life giving water that can sustain them in the life-draining edges of Shyish, finding food and game should be child's play outside of Nurgle's territories.

It's in the realm of fire and metal where the food supply gets interesting. So far one thing I noticed is Chamon actually grows good grapes vineyards.

Which with a little research is clever as grapes can have a surprising amount of metals in them.

"Concentrations and sources of chromium (Cr), manganese (Mn), nickel (Ni), cadmium (Cd), lead (Pb) and arsenic (As) were also analyzed. Higher levels of these heavy metals were observed in grape skins than pulps

Finally, we evaluated the risk of ingesting heavy metal through grapes using the estimated daily intake (EDI). No health risk was found by consuming grapes according to the data from this study."

Edited July 16, 2020 by Baron Klatz

[Grdaat]

14 minutes ago, xking said:

What? are you here just to complain? It's a city in the middle of a marsh, with a realmgate at the center of it and a fortified highway leading out other parts of the realm of life. It obviously has ways of getting food.

 

I'm saying that because the post came off like one of those Rick and Morty "you need a high IQ to understand it" kind of posts. Saying you cannot really appreciate the setting without reading supplemental material comes off to me as elitist.

[NinthMusketeer]

  

3 hours ago, zilberfrid said:

For 40k, this is a major criticism. Nothing in the lore really matters, because a Deus Ex will always save the hopelessly outnumbered #insert faction#. Even squats are back.

For pricing, I have purchased, in late june, early july, over 400 minis for less than €200. Including shipping. This way, I can keep the workshops where people first build and paint their first d&d minis, then we can expand to Frostgrave/Rangers of Shadowdeep, and I have enough monsters for everything.

I would not do this with GW minis (if only because of their horrible size issues).

Simply because they are over 4* the price at the cheapest end. Leaders are at least 20 times the cost.

This stuff does matter to me, as I can provide the risk-free entry into wargaming and minipainting with my friends.

The scale of AoS, together with its lack of depth (Where does the food come from in Greywater? The Sylvaneth won't give it to them...) makes it ungrounded, and I can't really care about Azyr being burned to a crisp if Azyr would never function anyway.

Your whataboutism to the real world is weird. I don't care about AoS, so I don't care about my hobby shop? 

Why are those two opinions even related?

Sure, the shop has AoS models in them, but also other models, paints, people. 

Try to communicate with less false equivalencies or other fallacies in them.

 

No big deal if you don't understand my argument, but that does not make it fallacious.

Edited July 16, 2020 by NinthMusketeer

[Grdaat]

9 minutes ago, NinthMusketeer said:

No big deal if you don't understand my argument, but that does not make it fallacious.

Which part do you think people didn't understand? I'm genuinely curious.

[NinthMusketeer]

15 minutes ago, Grdaat said:

Which part do you think people didn't understand? I'm genuinely curious.

I was talking to him specifically. You seemed to understand it well enough for a sarcastic response!

[Grdaat]

3 minutes ago, NinthMusketeer said:

I was talking to him specifically. You seemed to understand it well enough for a sarcastic response!

Gotcha, I won't ask for them then.

[zilberfrid]

52 minutes ago, NinthMusketeer said:

No big deal if you don't understand my argument, but that does not make it fallacious.

So. This is an examply why I did not state I liked the whole community.

Equating the price of models, a bit of lore to stores and well, everything is a classic false equivalence fallacy.

[Beliman]

I want to add to this post that one of the worst things about AoS is the continue need of justification. 

I get that some people need to now the refraction rate of Aqshy crystal because it makes impossible to play a game without knowing that, but this type of questions should be asked directly to Phil Kelly.

 

[Grdaat]

10 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:

So. This is an examply why I did not state I liked the whole community.

Equating the price of models, a bit of lore to stores and well, everything is a classic false equivalence fallacy.

Sorry but I'm going to have to side with NinthMusketeer on this one, using real world examples as reference points is not a false equivalence fallacy. While I think their point was off base and ultimately wrong, it would've been harder for the to get the point across without using real world references, same goes for my argument against them where I also used real world references.

If you want to see what an actual false equivalence looks like, Beliman offered a pretty good example right under your post:

4 minutes ago, Beliman said:

I want to add to this post that one of the worst things about AoS is the continue need of justification. 

2 minutes ago, Beliman said:

I get that some people need to now the refraction rate of Aqshy crystal because it makes impossible to play a game without knowing that, but this type of questions should be asked directly to Phil Kelly.

I accidentally took part of that out and can't combine them together again on mobile for some reason.

[zilberfrid]

Whatever. I just want the points to come out, and one glance later I'm probably disappointed enough in its balance that nothing about Warhammer does matter to me, giving that point some traction in a most inelegant way.

[Beliman]

4 minutes ago, Grdaat said:

If you want to see what an actual false equivalence looks like, Beliman offered a pretty good example right under your post:

I wasn't talking about people on this forum or using real-world physics to explain anything btw.

It's just an example of people asking really strange questions to random AoS players just to find a hole in the Lore. It always ends with "look, that's what I was talking about, Fantasy is a lot better than AoS!!" or something like that.

I'm pretty sure that everyone in this forum knows at least one dude that do the same.

Btw, I was answering OP that if he/she want to know how the game goes, take care of that people.

[Grdaat]

6 minutes ago, Beliman said:

I wasn't talking about people on this forum or using real-world physics to explain anything btw.

It's just an example of people asking really strange questions to random AoS players just to find a hole in the Lore. It always ends with "look, that's what I was talking about, Fantasy is a lot better than AoS!!" or something like that.

I'm pretty sure that everyone in this forum knows at least one dude that do the same.

Btw, I was answering OP that if he/she want to know how the game goes, take care of that people.

It's still a false equivalency though, asking questions like "how do ogors free themselves after they've been frozen and haven't eaten for a while?" Isn't the same as asking "what's the perfect refractory angle of realmstone?"

One of those is a key component to how a faction works, the other is just random nonsense that has nothing to do with anything.

Edited July 16, 2020 by Grdaat

[Beliman]

1 minute ago, Grdaat said:

It's still a false equivalency though, asking questions like "how do ogors free themselves after they've been frozen and haven't eaten for a while?" Aren't the same as asking "what's the perfect refractory angle of realmstone?"

One of those is a key component to how a faction works, the other is just random nonsense that has nothing to do with anything.

It was a joke. You can use it for whatever you want.

[Grdaat]

Just now, Beliman said:

It was a joke. You can use it for whatever you want.

Sorry, it's hard to tell when you can find people unironically doing that.

[Beliman]

7 minutes ago, Grdaat said:

Sorry, it's hard to tell when you can find people unironically doing that.

Didn't want to be agressive in my last answer, sorry!!

My point has nothing to do with that type of questions, I just wrote a joke to make my argument a bit more clear. 

I was just advicing that there are dudes that don't even play the game (well, some of them can try a game from time to time) and just try to find any hole (or something that it's not explained) and usually ends with the same phrase that I mentioned before: "look, that's what I was talking about, Fantasy is a lot better than AoS!!".

They are not here to be part of the community, they are here to upset people.  And doesn't matter how many of their questions you can answer, they are going to find another question (or just dismiss your answer).

My argument was  just that, an advice to take care of that people. Hope it's a bit more clear and it has nothing to do with the lore or the game itself.

[Grdaat]

4 minutes ago, Beliman said:

Didn't want to be agressive in my last answer, sorry!!

My point has nothing to do with that type of questions, I just wrote a joke to make my argument a bit more clear. 

I was just advicing that there are dudes that don't even play the game (well, some of them can try a game from time to time) and just try to find any hole (or something that it's not explained) and usually ends with the same phrase that I mentioned before: "look, that's what I was talking about, Fantasy is a lot better than AoS!!".

They are not here to be part of the community, they are here to upset people.  And doesn't matter how many of their questions you can answer, they are going to find another question (or just dismiss your answer).

My argument was  just that, an advice to take care of that people. Hope it's a bit more clear and it has nothing to do with the lore or the game itself.

To give them some slight bit of credit, I also think the game has more holes than a sponge, but discussing them here would get us way off topic, so I'll just say that people relatively new to the setting are going to have a lot of questions since it's so far out there, and there aren't good answers for a lot of them at the moment.

I get that some people do it just to antagonize, but there are other people who do the same thing honestly, and who will ask questions like "In Ghur, where does the ocean go when the land eats it?" And are genuinely curious/confused by it.

Edited July 16, 2020 by Grdaat

[Beliman]

1 minute ago, Grdaat said:

To give them some slight bit of credit, I also think the game has more holes than a sponge, but discussing them here would get us way off topic, so I'll just say that people relatively new to the setting are going to have a lot of questions since it's so far out there, and there aren't good answers for a lot of them at the moment.

I get that some people do it just to antagonize, but there are other people who do the same thing honestly, and who will ask questions like "In Ghur, where does the ocean go when the land eats it?" And are genuinely curious/confused by it.

Yep, there are a lot of questions that you wil not find any answer, that's 100% true. AoS has a bit of mythos-like background that can't be explained like Fantasy. Why Zeus had a child after being hit with an Axe on his head? You can answer to that type of questions if you really try, but that's not the point. 

I must say that the in the last 3 years, the background has evolved a lot, we had the Core Book that even if it doesn't explain everything, it helped a lot. This year, we had Soulbound that it's the first RP book that did a really good job with the central part of Aqshy. 

But again, that's a bit offtopic.

[Grdaat]

3 minutes ago, Beliman said:

Yep, there are a lot of questions that you wil not find any answer, that's 100% true. AoS has a bit of mythos-like background that can't be explained like Fantasy. Why Zeus had a child after being hit with an Axe on his head? You can answer to that type of questions if you really try, but that's not the point. 

I must say that the in the last 3 years, the background has evolved a lot, we had the Core Book that even if it doesn't explain everything, it helped a lot. This year, we had Soulbound that it's the first RP book that did a really good job with the central part of Aqshy. 

But again, that's a bit offtopic.

Both of those also raised a lot more questions but that's getting off topic. I think the point is some people just prefer a more grounded setting where nearly every question can be answered.

[Beliman]

Just now, Grdaat said:

Both of those also raised a lot more questions but that's getting off topic. I think the point is some people just prefer a more grounded setting where nearly every question can be answered.

Yep, what some people prefer seems to not be what the game is about at this moment.

Btw, I prefer more grounded settings too, but AoS has a bit of both worlds (and some books have that grimdark feeling) and that pleases me.

[JPjr]

And some people prefer pizza to a curry. Which of course is fine, you just have to wonder why five years after Pizza Hut closed and reopened as Tikka Hut they’re still coming in everyday to complain that they can’t have mozzarella and pepperoni on their naan bread, instead of going next door to Pizza-2-Go. 

tbh I’ve totally lost the point of this discussion, if there ever was one, but this analogy was too stupid not to share

Edited July 16, 2020 by JPjr
Tautology

[Grdaat]

1 minute ago, JPjr said:

And some people prefer pizza to a curry. Which of course is fine, you just have to wonder why five years after Pizza Hut closed and reopened as Tikka Hut they’re still coming in everyday to complain that they can’t have mozzarella and pepperoni on their naan bread, instead of going next door to Pizza-2-Go. 

tbh I’ve totally lost the point of this discussion, if there ever was one, but this analogy was too stupid not to share

If Tikka Hut was using the exact same ingredients and equipment but with a slightly different recipe I could see why some people are bothered they can no longer get their pepperoni mozza.

Should probably get back on topic after this, but so long as we're temporarily jumping off we might as well commit to it.

[NinthMusketeer]

2 hours ago, zilberfrid said:

So. This is an examply why I did not state I liked the whole community.

Equating the price of models, a bit of lore to stores and well, everything is a classic false equivalence fallacy.

See, that was not what I was doing. At all. Now you are just bending it into something else and making this toxic, for no reason. If you disagree, just disagree. If you don't understand, just say so. There is nothing wrong with that.

I think maybe Grdaat's take-it-all-literally responses may be throwing things out of context, too. It is one of the problems with sarcasm in a text-based discussion. Rest assured that once jokes are put aside no one actually believes that a bit of fluff is literally analogous to the price of miniatures, that the people of Greywater literally eat invasive plant growth to keep it away, or that fluff-skeptics literally care about the refraction rate of Aqshian crystal.