The Anvil of Apotheosis - Post your creation

[Carnith]

2 minutes ago, Korazell said:

Your base save can go to 3+ but a shield never adjusts your save stat, it just ADDS 1 to it for having it.  Lots of units have shields that buff their saves for having them. +2 is a doable thing and, frankly, I think they didn't understand the demand for this feature and balance it enough because etheral is just bonkers~

So both shield and extra armor have the same wording. Weapons and shields are in step 3, and hero characteristics are in step 6. So if you had a duardin, with a base 4+, and added a shield, you are at a 3+. You've improved your save and your extra armor cannot add anything more since by the time you got to step 6, you were already at a 3+ save due to the shield improving the characteristic by 1. It's pretty clear by intent that a 2+ is not meant to be possible, and attempting to get it in a narrative system just feels power gamey. 

[Korazell]

14 minutes ago, carnith said:

So both shield and extra armor have the same wording. Weapons and shields are in step 3, and hero characteristics are in step 6. So if you had a duardin, with a base 4+, and added a shield, you are at a 3+. You've improved your save and your extra armor cannot add anything more since by the time you got to step 6, you were already at a 3+ save due to the shield improving the characteristic by 1. It's pretty clear by intent that a 2+ is not meant to be possible, and attempting to get it in a narrative system just feels power gamey. 

I mean,  I took it as the weapon itself is down and has it's description, just like any other loadout that has shields. 

 

To better explain,  let's say I start out with a vampire and I want to make a mounted lord to lead my bloodknights. Great spear and a shield is the weapon load out. Lances get added, shield gets added, the shields improves my save as 1. That doesn't mean I take the 5+ save I have and make it a 4+, I just know since I have this, I add it to the save as a modifier. It's not my models inherit save value. 

 

"[Characteristic Enhancement] Improve your hero’s Save characteristic by 1 (to a maximum of 3+)." is directing altering the stats. It's not a load out modifier.  You can't go down lower than 3 because with a shield you can get 2+ and and nothing has a 1+ save. That's literally the most defense you can get. 

 

Am I saying I enjoy how this works? Ehhhh. I think you should be able to make a great character...to a point. I have no value in named models, I make my own lore and I do my own heros using stats and kitbashes and whatever else I want.  That said...I think there really needs to be a restriction on Ethereal because if I'm paying for a 3/2 up save, it better be rended somehow.

 

Does this make more sense?

 

Power Gaming is making a situation where someone can't easily win or has to make a custom list to beat you. A 400 point max dps 2+ etheral monster is power gamey and I agree, not fun or flavorful, that's just WAAC.

Edited July 16, 2020 by Korazell

[Carnith]

No, because both modify the characteristic. The Shield does turn the 5+ to a 4+. That's what improving the characteristic means. Both have the same wording. You change whats in the top left of the warscroll, this is not modifying the dice roll to have +1, otherwise it would say "Add 1 to your saving throws". 

[Korazell]

15 minutes ago, carnith said:

No, because both modify the characteristic. The Shield does turn the 5+ to a 4+. That's what improving the characteristic means. Both have the same wording. You change whats in the top left of the warscroll, this is not modifying the dice roll to have +1, otherwise it would say "Add 1 to your saving throws". 

Hmm...I took it as that's the shields ability being added to the warscroll and not actually increasing it, just like other shields, but I suppose this could be valid, too. I'm not really sure, honestly, that means shields are meaningless and have no value.  Which I can't assume they meant. If the shield was free with a one handed weapon I could understand, however, it's not. 

 

I'd really like an errata for that and for Ethereal to be on Nighthaunt only or make it a 4 save regardless of what happens. 

[Carnith]

Shields have value. Perhaps you want your dude to have a shield. It's modeled on there. There's rule for it. Now, I wish there were different shields. A reroll 1's to save shield (or maybe a rule for a parry dagger), or a 5+ MW save like chaos get. 

[amysrevenge]

Shields in AoS don't universally do the same thing.  Some shields add 1 to saves, some shields let you reroll 1s to save, some shields let you reroll saves, some shields give a 5+ to ignore mortal wounds, etc.

[Korazell]

29 minutes ago, carnith said:

Shields have value. Perhaps you want your dude to have a shield. It's modeled on there. There's rule for it. Now, I wish there were different shields. A reroll 1's to save shield (or maybe a rule for a parry dagger), or a 5+ MW save like chaos get. 

Well, they have no value at the moment, they actually are over costed based on the weapon options then. It should be 1 for a shield since the 1 handed weapons are 1 point. 

To the second comment, however, yeah, if they did other things, it would be pretty cool and worth the points, I think that's a big thing they skimped on frankly as every shield is different to a degree. 

[Mattrulesok]

Love this addition, kitbashing might be my favourite part of the hobby. 

 

I present my newest hero. 

[Korazell]

12 minutes ago, Mattrulesok said:

Love this addition, kitbashing might be my favourite part of the hobby. 

 

I present my newest hero. 

Ohhh! I love this and I really don't enjoy Stormcast even, how did the grass look so nice? Do you have an applicator? Jewelry chain for the leash?

[Mattrulesok]

4 minutes ago, Korazell said:

Ohhh! I love this and I really don't enjoy Stormcast even, how did the grass look so nice? Do you have an applicator? Jewelry chain for the leash?

Thanks

The grass is a mixture of premade tufts I've cut into smaller pieces and spread around and static grass glued on, I don't have an applicator so I just add it by hand. 

The chain is just green stuff. 

[Korazell]

1 minute ago, Mattrulesok said:

Thanks

The grass is a mixture of premade tufts I've cut into smaller pieces and spread around and static grass glued on, I don't have an applicator so I just add it by hand. 

The chain is just green stuff. 

Nicely done! It looks very natural with the mix. 

 

...Also that chain is- excuse me? Really? For true? You speak the true-true? 

 

I need to up my sculpting game!

[Ghoooouls]

6 hours ago, Duke of Gisoreux said:

That's wrong, the shield adds +1 to the save characteristic, not to the save roll. So it's possible to have a 2+ save with the shield. Otherwise the shield option would be completely useless.

You do step 2 (picking weapons and shield) before step 6 where you can choose armour. So if you have a shield, then buy armour, the armour upgrade still says to a max of 3+. So it is impossible to have a 2+ save.

 

But yeah I commented the +1 save when I hadn't seen the book and was going off what others said.

Edited July 16, 2020 by Ghoooouls

[Ghoooouls]

4 hours ago, Korazell said:

Well, they have no value at the moment, they actually are over costed based on the weapon options then. It should be 1 for a shield since the 1 handed weapons are 1 point. 

To the second comment, however, yeah, if they did other things, it would be pretty cool and worth the points, I think that's a big thing they skimped on frankly as every shield is different to a degree. 

Our house rule is shield costs 1, and they're still useless. One handed weapons are too bad and require too much upgrading.

 

We are gonna do more testing, but shields costing 1 or free and one handed weapons starting at 3s to hit and wound minimum with -1 rend might work.

Edited July 16, 2020 by Ghoooouls

[Ghoooouls]

4 hours ago, carnith said:

Shields have value. Perhaps you want your dude to have a shield. It's modeled on there. There's rule for it. Now, I wish there were different shields. A reroll 1's to save shield (or maybe a rule for a parry dagger), or a 5+ MW save like chaos get. 

In my opinion the shields and one handed are so utterly rubbish that I'd just use a 'two handed' weapon profile and 'extra armour' as the shield.

For instance, if I chose a one handed sword and shield and wanted my weapon to hit and wound on 3, rend 1 damage 2, I would need to spend 8DP. That means that if I chose a vampire (one of the cheaper options) I now have a character that is 120 points (!!!) Without any abilities whatsoever and only 3 attacks 3s 3s r1 d2.

Or I could just spend 6DP on the 2 handed axe and armour upgrade and get the same save with a weapon that hits on 3s, wounds on 2s with rend 2 damage 2.

Edited July 16, 2020 by Ghoooouls

[Num]

Yes some  weapon options are universally better (double hammer or grandhammer/great axe). I don't really get why they are so many weapon profiles instead of just letting weapons be customizable too (with the same destiny points system). Especially as one can just change the name of the weapon, and the tool is name the "anvil".

 

 

Edited July 16, 2020 by Num

[Mattrulesok]

7 hours ago, Korazell said:

Nicely done! It looks very natural with the mix. 

 

...Also that chain is- excuse me? Really? For true? You speak the true-true? 

 

I need to up my sculpting game!

Yep just green stuff, I'd like to tell you I'm a master sculpter but I just followed a YouTube video that had a really great method for easy chains

Link if you're interested Link

 

[Carnith]

I don't wanna always game the system, as it's meant for narrative, but there are times where the idea of a character becomes cost prohibitive that to make him decent, just doesn't work. In my warscroll on the previous page for Delsear, he's got two swords, but to add two swords, and make his main weapon a strong attack, I'd be spending a lot of points. And the idea for him is that he sword fighting skills are meant that he finds openings for additional slashes. To get all of that, we're looking at a really expensive character. But all I ended up doing was taking the great sword, called it two blades. Honestly, if i wanted more out of him, I'd give him the great axe for that additional rend. 

Also, my custom fighter, is as many points as Eltharion, doesn't have as good of a save, no ethereal, no rend 3, no mw ranged attack. 

[Melcavuk]

42 minutes ago, carnith said:

I don't wanna always game the system, as it's meant for narrative, but there are times where the idea of a character becomes cost prohibitive that to make him decent, just doesn't work. In my warscroll on the previous page for Delsear, he's got two swords, but to add two swords, and make his main weapon a strong attack, I'd be spending a lot of points. And the idea for him is that he sword fighting skills are meant that he finds openings for additional slashes. To get all of that, we're looking at a really expensive character. But all I ended up doing was taking the great sword, called it two blades. Honestly, if i wanted more out of him, I'd give him the great axe for that additional rend. 

Also, my custom fighter, is as many points as Eltharion, doesn't have as good of a save, no ethereal, no rend 3, no mw ranged attack. 

Barring the obscenely cheap starting level you’ll find all custom characters here roughly 15-30% over costed. I assume this is done with the intent to make them more acceptable for matched players to play against. However as it’s a narrative system I’d encourage building them to suit what they are, rather than worrying about costs.

[amysrevenge]

The more I look at this, the more I'm seeing great fun value in the 12-20 DP range for support heroes.  Especially of the +1 to hit bubble variety.  Recreating the Battle Standard Bearer.

[Zamik]

I'm working on a Khorne Arch-priest, and I wanted to know if the +1 to prayer rolls counted for summoning Judgements. The warscrolls for the Judgements call the roll a "Judgement Roll," so does that mean it's a completely distinct thing from a Prayer roll?

[ageofpaddsmar]

13 hours ago, Korazell said:

Well, they have no value at the moment, they actually are over costed based on the weapon options then. It should be 1 for a shield since the 1 handed weapons are 1 point. 

To the second comment, however, yeah, if they did other things, it would be pretty cool and worth the points, I think that's a big thing they skimped on frankly as every shield is different to a degree. 

Shields do have a use on the basic characters that start with a 6+ save like skinks. It's away for them to get to a 3+ save 

[Ghoooouls]

2 hours ago, ageofpaddsmar said:

Shields do have a use on the basic characters that start with a 6+ save like skinks. It's away for them to get to a 3+ save 

6+ save like skinks can just pay for 3 armour upgrades for a 3+ save and then use one of the two handed weapons for decent attacks, rather than taking a shield and being locked to the garbage weapons.

Edited July 16, 2020 by Ghoooouls

[Chaos Shepard]

My interpretation is that Shields are a piece of equipment that alter the armor stat after the fact, thus allowing you to get to a 2+ save. If you look a Shield as it tend to appear on a warscroll, you will see it is regularly listed under abilities. This also means that if you took Ethereal the shield wouldn't work because it ignores all modifiers. Here is an example of a character that would have a 2+ save.

And here is a pic because I feel like it.

This is at least my interpretation, and I think it makes the most sense given its useless inclusion otherwise.

[Dukeus]

Thats some tanky beast. Like it. 

[Dodo]

I have an unpainted Hydra in my basement. It‘s the Last Remnant of my old world Dark Elves Army besides my DoK. I always envisioned as a pet to some Kind of DoK-Sorceress or Priestess. Now i created this Scroll. 36 points spent on her