Ghoooouls Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 (edited) 53 minutes ago, Chaos Shepard said: My interpretation is that Shields are a piece of equipment that alter the armor stat after the fact, thus allowing you to get to a 2+ save. If you look a Shield as it tend to appear on a warscroll, you will see it is regularly listed under abilities. This also means that if you took Ethereal the shield wouldn't work because it ignores all modifiers. Here is an example of a character that would have a 2+ save. And here is a pic because I feel like it. This is at least my interpretation, and I think it makes the most sense given its useless inclusion otherwise. This would be true for some shields and would be worded along the lines of 'add 1 to save rolls for a model with a shield', but as it stands it is like the vampire lord on zombie dragon shield that alters the actual save characteristic (and was often used with the ethereal amulet, seeing as it is NOT a modifier, it adjusts the save characteristic). Seeing as you choose a shield in step 2 of AoA, before you choose any other upgrades (step 6), lets say you choose a vampire, your save characteristic after choosing a shield would now be 4+ rather than 5+, then when you get to step 6 and add extra armour it goes to 3+ and cannot be upgraded any more than that, as per the armour rules in the AoA. Modifying the save characteristic is very different to adding to the save like a lot of other shields do. The one in AoA changes your heroes characteristic, meaning when you get to step 6, the save characteristic is 1 better than whatever it started as, and then the armour cannot modify it further than 3+. Edited July 16, 2020 by Ghoooouls 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qrow Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 (edited) Decided to try my hand at giving the colossal squig a better place on the table, instead of being outclassed by manglers 9 times out of 10. Edited July 17, 2020 by Qrow 1. Uploaded in better format 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dankboss Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 4 hours ago, Qrow said: Decided to try my hand at giving the colossal squig a better place on the table, instead of being outclassed by manglers 9 times out of 10. Where did the 3+ Ethereal come from? A colossal squig has a 5+ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skreech Verminking Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 17 minutes ago, Dankboss said: Where did the 3+ Ethereal come from? A colossal squig has a 5+ You can spend certain points to give your hero an extra +1 to it’s saving characteristics (which is not a modifier even if it sounds like one) and then there is the ethereal ability, that you can give that hero as well for some points spend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dankboss Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 Just now, Skreech Verminking said: You can spend certain points to give your hero an extra +1 to it’s saving characteristics (which is not a modifier even if it sounds like one) and then there is the ethereal ability, that you can give that hero as well for some points spend I know, it's just the intention of the Anvil is to create thematic characters, and I'm questioning the design choices. It just looks like all the powerful choices were taken. Of course they can create whatever they like, it's just it seems so unlike the real colossal squig. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demonlizardfromouterspace Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 5 hours ago, Qrow said: Decided to try my hand at giving the colossal squig a better place on the table, instead of being outclassed by manglers 9 times out of 10. Oh, a hero with 3+ ethereal save with regeneration. Really creative. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skreech Verminking Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, Dankboss said: I know, it's just the intention of the Anvil is to create thematic characters, and I'm questioning the design choices. It just looks like all the powerful choices were taken. Of course they can create whatever they like, it's just it seems so unlike the real colossal squig. My first thoughts, When I was trying to build a mad Warlock engineer driving a doomwheel around. It kinda works, but all those special things that make the doomwheel special in it’s own way wasn’t there, So I gave the idea up. I think the Anvil of .... is a basic way to recreate some special character on certain mounts. For example A claword or Master moulder on bone breaker rat-ogre, can be pretty much build very effectively with this system 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleboda Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 On 7/9/2020 at 4:16 AM, RedMax said: Alternatively (and more convinient to use), we have the Warscroll Designer build by our friend @RuneBrush that allow to fullfill warscroll online (definitively my prefered option). Does anyone know if this tool is approved by GW? I can see the disclaimer, but that's not quite what I'm asking. I'm a big supporter of the rights of creators, even when those creators are big businesses. I really want to use this tool to make my own warscrolls. If GW is giving the thumbs up, then yeehaw heck yeah I'm using it. If not, I'm not. The fact the GW provided their own template rather than pointing to one created by a community champion gives me pause. Note: I'm not accusing @RuneBrush of any bad behavior, and in fact think what he's created is cool as heck. I just want to be sure I'm supporting creators appropriately. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dankboss Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 4 minutes ago, Sleboda said: Does anyone know if this tool is approved by GW? I can see the disclaimer, but that's not quite what I'm asking. I'm a big supporter of the rights of creators, even when those creators are big businesses. I really want to use this tool to make my own warscrolls. If GW is giving the thumbs up, then yeehaw heck yeah I'm using it. If not, I'm not. The fact the GW provided their own template rather than pointing to one created by a community champion gives me pause. Note: I'm not accusing @RuneBrush of any bad behavior, and in fact think what he's created is cool as heck. I just want to be sure I'm supporting creators appropriately. What I'm doing is using Runebrush's app to work out the scroll, and then when my custom hero is ready, use the official warscoll to create his final version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleboda Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 20 minutes ago, Dankboss said: What I'm doing is using Runebrush's app to work out the scroll, and then when my custom hero is ready, use the official warscoll to create his final version. Which is cool, but still leaves open the more basic question about the existence, publishing, and use of Runebrush's tool and whether GW has 'blessed' it (overtly or otherwise). I have the same question (but waaaaaay more doubt) about AoS Reminders. I think these sorts of community-based tools are awesome and a testament to the passion and spirit of the people in our hobby. Like I said, just wanna know that the people who built up a thing over decades of work and risk are ok with with how their legally-protected creations are being used. I'm crossing my fingers for a win-win-win (creator, innovator, user). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dankboss Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 Just now, Sleboda said: Which is cool, but still leaves open the more basic question about the existence, publishing, and use of Runebrush's tool and whether GW has 'blessed' it (overtly or otherwise). I have the same question (but waaaaaay more doubt) about AoS Reminders. I think these sorts of community-based tools are awesome and a testament to the passion and spirit of the people in our hobby. Like I said, just wanna know that the people who built up a thing over decades of work and risk are ok with with how their legally-protected creations are being used. I'm crossing my fingers for a win-win-win (creator, innovator, user). Knowing GW, he'd already have been sued if it was an issue. If you want to present it to GW, use their template. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qrow Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 3 hours ago, Dankboss said: I know, it's just the intention of the Anvil is to create thematic characters, and I'm questioning the design choices. It just looks like all the powerful choices were taken. Of course they can create whatever they like, it's just it seems so unlike the real colossal squig. I agree to your points, and also made a heap of mistakes as it was about 2am when I made it. No idea why I thought you could increase the damage of mount attacks and apparently for free as well... how about this version, severely toned down. I still gave it a 4+, because the 5+ GW gave the colossal makes me sad, especially when the manglers get a 4+. It has no Ethereal however, and I kept its points closer to the original. This version is basically a slight step up from a loonboss on mangler squig, a little more damage and survivability, slower, but with a +hit command ability that squig armies struggle to access. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Shepard Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 2 hours ago, Sleboda said: Does anyone know if this tool is approved by GW? I can see the disclaimer, but that's not quite what I'm asking. I'm a big supporter of the rights of creators, even when those creators are big businesses. I really want to use this tool to make my own warscrolls. If GW is giving the thumbs up, then yeehaw heck yeah I'm using it. If not, I'm not. The fact the GW provided their own template rather than pointing to one created by a community champion gives me pause. Note: I'm not accusing @RuneBrush of any bad behavior, and in fact think what he's created is cool as heck. I just want to be sure I'm supporting creators appropriately. I wouldn't say it has GW's blessing as it wouldn't be Unofficial then, but I don't think its braking any laws so you probably don't need to worry. The app isn't profiting off of GW's IP and it doesn't actually provide the user with any protected information like points. The only thing it has is the old warscroll arrangement and you cant really have a copyright on how information is arranged. As a disclaimer, I am not a lawyer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleboda Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 41 minutes ago, Chaos Shepard said: I wouldn't say it has GW's blessing as it wouldn't be Unofficial then, but I don't think its braking any laws so you probably don't need to worry. The app isn't profiting off of GW's IP and it doesn't actually provide the user with any protected information like points. The only thing it has is the old warscroll arrangement and you cant really have a copyright on how information is arranged. As a disclaimer, I am not a lawyer. I don't want to derail, but a common misconception about this area of law is that as long as you don't profit from infringement, you're ok. You're not. Profit can increase your damages, but distributing copyrighted material (or creating confusion in a reasonable evaluator over authorship) is the core issue. Not saying this does that, or that the materials in question are even copyrighted. I don't know, which is why I'm asking. Knowing is half the battle. The other half is killing your enemy (with a custom Bonereapers hero). Anyway. I'll leave it there. @TwiceIfILikeIt and I are excited to make some new heroes, convert models to match, and play some games!!!😁 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Shepard Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Sleboda said: I don't want to derail, but a common misconception about this area of law is that as long as you don't profit from infringement, you're ok. You're not. Profit can increase your damages, but distributing copyrighted material (or creating confusion in a reasonable evaluator over authorship) is the core issue. Not saying this does that, or that the materials in question are even copyrighted. I don't know, which is why I'm asking. Knowing is half the battle. The other half is killing your enemy (with a custom Bonereapers hero). Anyway. I'll leave it there. @TwiceIfILikeIt and I are excited to make some new heroes, convert models to match, and play some games!!!😁 And that's why profit wasn't my only point. The warscroll designer doesn't appear to use protected information in it. I'm talking point cost and names, sure I could type in Stormcast Eternal, but I can also type in Ninja Turtle. At that point any word program is copyright infringement, heck this site would not be able to function. The only thing that might be questionable is the use of the AoS logo. Now it does have a nice and large Unofficial on top of it. This is probably transformation enough to be fine, and the whole site makes it very clear that they are not official, so they are clearly not trying to commit fraud. But again not a Lawyer. Anyway back on topic. I saw this image in the inspirational art thread. Art by Les Edwards Anyway it inspired me to make this. He comes in at 370 point so he's legal if you can read through all the sass. Edited July 18, 2020 by Chaos Shepard getting back on topic 2 2 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gunslinger Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 I saw this as more of a tool to create thematic heroes that are represented on the model. So with the Ethereal, I would expect an explanation and a conversion as to why it had it. If someone can give me a good reason why a giant squig or khorne lord would be ethereal I would play against it, if it's just an obvious power move I won't. Personally, I think this is great and I can't wait to make a custom Lahmian Vampire for my army! 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ageofpaddsmar Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 On 7/16/2020 at 7:17 PM, Ghoooouls said: 6+ save like skinks can just pay for 3 armour upgrades for a 3+ save and then use one of the two handed weapons for decent attacks, rather than taking a shield and being locked to the garbage weapons. Yes I forgot you could just buy the better armour more then once. Maybe the shield does act like normal shields which add to your save after the fact. Like a vamp lord is characteristic is 4+ on his wars roll but the shield adds to it making it 3. I guess we need an faq Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghoooouls Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, ageofpaddsmar said: Yes I forgot you could just buy the better armour more then once. Maybe the shield does act like normal shields which add to your save after the fact. Like a vamp lord is characteristic is 4+ on his wars roll but the shield adds to it making it 3. I guess we need an faq Vampire lord changes the characteristic, it doesnt add 1. 'A model with an ancient shield has a save characteristic of 3+' Adding to saves is worded like the grave guard shields 'add 1 to save rolls for models carrying crypt shields' and (a lot) more shields that most units get. Changing the characteristic is quite rare. In the AoA it very clearly states 'add 1 to the save characteristic', not 'add 1 to save rolls'. Edited July 18, 2020 by Ghoooouls Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnith Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 So thinking about shields and how they just feel redundant. Some shield options, all should cost 1 dp. I'd also probably make a change that Ethereal units shouldn't probably be allowed to have more than a 4+ save, or that shields do not work on etheral units (would be hard to do though, since a lot of these rules can easy be fluffed as something like impenetrable armor and not that you just a spooky ghost). Buckler +1 save in combat Pavise +1 save from ranged attacks (crossbowmen shield to protect themselves from ranged fire) Parry Shield Reroll 1's in combat. Heavy Shield +1 sv, but only costs 1 DP since you are forced to take a worse off weapon, still can't bring you a 2+ but you atleast get something Rune shield 5+ MW save Bladed Buckler - it's like the buckler in +1 sv in combat only, and has kick back mw on save of 6's. Probably worth 2 DP. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddpainting Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 Got my conversion i've been working on finally playable, WOOT! PS, forgot to add the moster keyword. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amysrevenge Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 Good chance to recreate Duardin King on Shieldbearers. I built one on paper to 20DP/200 points that does a good job of recreating the one I used in the early days of AoS. Have to get it in scroll form at some point... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingGabaSnagga Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 I was having fun creating all those heroes that have been stuck in my head for some time... then I started to notice something. These custom made heroes are damn expensive. 😮 Like almost twice as expensive as an original hero . anyway, my creation: Grot wizard Grot: 3DP Wizard (Free): 1 cast / 1 unbind weapon 1: Axe = 1DP weapon 2: improvised = 0 DP Consumate commander= 5DP Ward= 3DP Regenerate=3DP Archmage = 3DP Move: 5 inch Bravery: 4 Wounds: 4 Save 6+ Weapon 1: 3 attacks 4+ to hit 3+ to wound rend -1 damage 1 Weapon 2: 3 attacks 4+ to hit 4+ to wound rend 0 damage 1 18 DP = 180 points. A "normal" Fungoid cave shaman comes at 90 ptn. While my custom hero still feels cool, my army would be better off with 2x Fungoid cave shamans. 😛 Anyone else feels bummed out too by this? Or am I missing something? Ps: I also recreated the light of eltharion, because it's awesome! I came at a whopping 47 dp That's 470 points to try and try to recreate a model that's 220 points. I was trying to make a grot version of the light of eltharion... "The Nightlamp of Skarsnik." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleboda Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, KingGabaSnagga said: These custom made heroes are damn expensive. 😮 Like almost twice as expensive as an original hero . Good! Any system like this is really open to being min/maxed in bad ways. Overpaying should help to mitigate the issues that could come up. It also might encourage events to allow these characters. Edited July 19, 2020 by Sleboda I'm old. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gunslinger Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 Had a go creating a custom Necrach Vampire by following some of the bloodline abilites from an old Vampire Counts army book. At 140 points he is the same price as a normal vampire lord, but more directed towards spell casting. I like the idea of using the leader from the Grymwatch as a conversion for this model and changing the halberd to a staff to represent the Unholy Staff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Mackay Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 12 hours ago, Sleboda said: Good! Any system like this is really open to being min/maxed in bad ways. Overpaying should help to mitigate the issues that could come up. It also might encourage events to allow these characters. Alternatively, the cost might just force everyone to spam the 3+ save Ethereal heroes that no one wants to see because people might think they aren’t worth taking otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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