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jeanfluflu

Vanguard chamber with new updates

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Hello fellow heroes of sigmar, i'm new to age of sigmar and only started to play recently.

I've been collecting miniatures for a while though and i started to build an army arround the vanguard brotherhood starting box i bought a couple of years ago.
With the recent leaks arround the new general's handbook i started to update my army and push it to 2000pts using the point updates.

I'm mainly playing with casual players but i like to have some optimisation on my list (I'm not going for full hardcore shooting list, i'd like to keep my friends playing against me from time to time).

Anyway here's the list, i'll put some descriptions to tell you guys how i usually play this even though some units are pretty obvious.

Stormcast Eternal: Anvils of Heldenhammer.

- Lord aquilor, 170pts:
General, he's going to play some trick by using his command ability to teleport units where they would be the most usefull (raptors and palladors are best for that).

- Lord Castellant, 120pts:
He's there for the save bonus, also he's a good miniature to keep in the backline to avoid some unfortunate invocation with his griffin.

- Knight azyros, 100pts:
reroll 1 to hit, he's there to secure the raptor's fire and allows for some situationnal mortal wounds with his lantern. He can fly, probably duel some low wounds heroes or weak unit but i try to keep him away from combat as much as i can.

- 15 liberators, 270pts:
The big unit, works as budget sequitors since i can't use them with this general. with the castellant behind them they are solid enough (3+ save rerolling ones)  and can survive one turn or two.
I don't expect much from them beside buying some time and giving me some table presence.

- 2x5 vanguard hunters, 2x100pts:
The miniatures are amazing and brought me into this chamber (these and the palladors of course) the reduce in points is a nice small bonus.
They are mainly here to shoot at low armor units, go on flanks and take objectives, typically the kind of unit i'll keep in reserve to TP them where i need them the most since they can run and still be useful by shooting.

- 7 evocators, 294pts:
Again, beautiful units, the mortal wounds they do are amazing and with grand staff they can hit behind my liberators without taking too much hits.
They hold the core of the list together with the castellant and offers me some much needed damage in close combat.

- 2x3 palladors, 2x170pts:
These units helps me in lots of situations. killing a low profile hero, finishing elite units...etc. they bring some very reliable damage (-2 rend for the chickens, mortal wounds on a 6...etc) they are not killing machines but i know i can count on them every time, they also have 15wounds which allows them to take some hits.

- 2x3 aetherwings, 2x40pts:
Best unit in the book, the potential to block very high impact units DURING enemy turn is a must have in my opinion.
They are here to die and give me some time/table control, block a bloodthister/cavalry unit...etc.

- 6 vanguard raptors with longstrikes crosbow, 340pts:
The heavy damage unit, most of the time they will focus heroes and key component of enemy army (basically everything that goes fast, hits hard and is not super heavily armored such as bloodthirster/heroes on chonky monsters but also smaller heroes to take away key bonuses from the enemy) they need to shoot as much as possible so i usually keep them behind my line of liberator and keep the castellant close to them to shoot during hero phase and shooting phase.

TOTAL: 1914pts
I can get an extra command point to get me to 1964pts.

Here's the base of the list, it's not perfectly balanced yet and beside the longstrikes i don't have much heavy hitters (evocators are cool but so far i only played them once so i can't have a definitive judgement on them).
I have concerns on the palladors as well, i love the miniatures so i'm definitely playing them but do you think i should use them in a big unit of 6 or should i keep them split to get them where i need it the most? Is 6 too much? maybe 4 or 5 is enough so i can get the points elsewhere....etc.

Having 1964pts isn't very optimised though, maybe i can move some units here and there to get some well rounded total points.

Anyway thanks a lot for reading all this, i'm very impatient to hear your advices

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18 minutes ago, jeanfluflu said:

Hello fellow heroes of sigmar, i'm new to age of sigmar and only started to play recently.

I've been collecting miniatures for a while though and i started to build an army arround the vanguard brotherhood starting box i bought a couple of years ago.
With the recent leaks arround the new general's handbook i started to update my army and push it to 2000pts using the point updates.

I'm mainly playing with casual players but i like to have some optimisation on my list (I'm not going for full hardcore shooting list, i'd like to keep my friends playing against me from time to time).

Anyway here's the list, i'll put some descriptions to tell you guys how i usually play this even though some units are pretty obvious.

Stormcast Eternal: Anvils of Heldenhammer.

- Lord aquilor, 170pts:
General, he's going to play some trick by using his command ability to teleport units where they would be the most usefull (raptors and palladors are best for that).

- Lord Castellant, 120pts:
He's there for the save bonus, also he's a good miniature to keep in the backline to avoid some unfortunate invocation with his griffin.

- Knight azyros, 100pts:
reroll 1 to hit, he's there to secure the raptor's fire and allows for some situationnal mortal wounds with his lantern. He can fly, probably duel some low wounds heroes or weak unit but i try to keep him away from combat as much as i can.

- 15 liberators, 270pts:
The big unit, works as budget sequitors since i can't use them with this general. with the castellant behind them they are solid enough (3+ save rerolling ones)  and can survive one turn or two.
I don't expect much from them beside buying some time and giving me some table presence.

- 2x5 vanguard hunters, 2x100pts:
The miniatures are amazing and brought me into this chamber (these and the palladors of course) the reduce in points is a nice small bonus.
They are mainly here to shoot at low armor units, go on flanks and take objectives, typically the kind of unit i'll keep in reserve to TP them where i need them the most since they can run and still be useful by shooting.

- 7 evocators, 294pts:
Again, beautiful units, the mortal wounds they do are amazing and with grand staff they can hit behind my liberators without taking too much hits.
They hold the core of the list together with the castellant and offers me some much needed damage in close combat.

- 2x3 palladors, 2x170pts:
These units helps me in lots of situations. killing a low profile hero, finishing elite units...etc. they bring some very reliable damage (-2 rend for the chickens, mortal wounds on a 6...etc) they are not killing machines but i know i can count on them every time, they also have 15wounds which allows them to take some hits.

- 2x3 aetherwings, 2x40pts:
Best unit in the book, the potential to block very high impact units DURING enemy turn is a must have in my opinion.
They are here to die and give me some time/table control, block a bloodthister/cavalry unit...etc.

- 6 vanguard raptors with longstrikes crosbow, 340pts:
The heavy damage unit, most of the time they will focus heroes and key component of enemy army (basically everything that goes fast, hits hard and is not super heavily armored such as bloodthirster/heroes on chonky monsters but also smaller heroes to take away key bonuses from the enemy) they need to shoot as much as possible so i usually keep them behind my line of liberator and keep the castellant close to them to shoot during hero phase and shooting phase.

TOTAL: 1914pts
I can get an extra command point to get me to 1964pts.

Here's the base of the list, it's not perfectly balanced yet and beside the longstrikes i don't have much heavy hitters (evocators are cool but so far i only played them once so i can't have a definitive judgement on them).
I have concerns on the palladors as well, i love the miniatures so i'm definitely playing them but do you think i should use them in a big unit of 6 or should i keep them split to get them where i need it the most? Is 6 too much? maybe 4 or 5 is enough so i can get the points elsewhere....etc.

Having 1964pts isn't very optimised though, maybe i can move some units here and there to get some well rounded total points.

Anyway thanks a lot for reading all this, i'm very impatient to hear your advices

Nice throughts, but you cant get 7 evocators, either 5 or 10

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damn, didn't know about that.....

Am i supposed to add miniatures 5 by 5 each time i grow a unit?

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1 minute ago, jeanfluflu said:

damn, didn't know about that.....

Am i supposed to add miniatures 5 by 5 each time i grow a unit?

It is written in the warscroll/point table, for example aetherwings goes in unit of 3, raptors too

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2 minutes ago, Yondaime said:

It is written in the warscroll/point table, for example aetherwings goes in unit of 3, raptors too

Thanks for that, i didn't pay attention to that particular detail.

In that case the list will propably go this way:

-Lord aquilor 170pts
-lord castellant 120pts
-knight azyros 100pts
-15 liberators 270pts
-10 evocators 420pts
-5 hunters 100pts
-5 hunters 100pts
-3 palladors 170pts
-3 aetherwings 40pts
-3 aetherwings 40pts
-6 raptors longtstrike 340pts

For a total of 1870pts, i removed one unit of palladors and add more evocators as i felt they where the better unit.
I still have some room for extras, maybe 5 more liberators and 3 more eagles?

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11 minutes ago, jeanfluflu said:

Thanks for that, i didn't pay attention to that particular detail.

In that case the list will propably go this way:

-Lord aquilor 170pts
-lord castellant 120pts
-knight azyros 100pts
-15 liberators 270pts
-10 evocators 420pts
-5 hunters 100pts
-5 hunters 100pts
-3 palladors 170pts
-3 aetherwings 40pts
-3 aetherwings 40pts
-6 raptors longtstrike 340pts

For a total of 1870pts, i removed one unit of palladors and add more evocators as i felt they where the better unit.
I still have some room for extras, maybe 5 more liberators and 3 more eagles?

a unit of 20 libs with a castellan behind can provvide a solide hanvil (you are looking at 40 wounds at 3+ save)

3 units of 3 aether can provvide a really nice screen 

so yeah, thats a nice idea

I suggest to remove the evocators (in this list you dont really need them) and put 9 longstrikes, and with the remaning points you can add balistas for more shooting, or add more bodies (liberators/sequitors etc)

 

Your main goal here is to protect the longstrikes (you can teleport them with aquilor if needed, trust me your opponent is gonna love that xD) while your bodies control the objectives

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Thanks for your answer, i'll probably not go for 9 raptor though.

I'm really aware of the lethal potential of these guys and the friend i'm playing against the most really hates them already (so far we've played 6 or 7 games together and he won none of them due to these guys).

what are your thoughts on palladors though, they never betrayed me and did their job each time but they are not brilliant either so right now i have mixed feelings about them should i invest in them a bit more?

Speaking of adding bodies i saw that gryph-hounds got some point reduction as well (from 140pts before to 120pts now) they are really useful to block people and are quite resilient (3wounds each and they can disengage after they attack) still vulnerable to saturation but they can do their job nicely against enemy elites.
I mainly use them to pin down expensive units and/or screen precious melee fighters but they are not going to do any kills.

At 140pts for 6 they where expensive but right now are they more valuable for 120pts?

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120 points is still way too much for 6 gryphhounds. I love the models and the utility, but they're not efficient.

Palladors are the cheapest fastest chunk of wounds we can get. Consider them as objective grabbers and screens, any actual damage they do is icing on top. Plus they look . So. SWEET. ;)

You might also want to consider Vanguard Raptors with Hurricanes. These are unsung heroes of our tome, i run two units of 3 with a unit of aetherwings each as a roadblock /screen clearer. They're hard to charge due to aetherwing intercept and -1 to charge bubble and they generate a whopping 27 shots when they scions in or teleport with a Lord Aquillor.

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27 minutes ago, Lucur said:

Palladors are the cheapest fastest chunk of wounds we can get. Consider them as objective grabbers and screens, any actual damage they do is icing on top. Plus they look . So. SWEET. ;)

I think i have never read an better analysis of Palladors :) nailed it

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Thanks a lot for your answers guys!

I see the problem now and why people go full shootcasts (9 raptors+4 ballistas...etc) each time a unit is described it's almost always the same thing:
"nice utility but not enough damages".

I think i have good threat in the form of the 6 raptors with the CA of anvils, i have a big blob of liberators to take the center and go die for sigmar and enough cover with the two units of aetherwings to form a solid line.
I like your analysis on the palladors, and if they are "objective grabbers and screens" i will just keep one unit and forget the idea to get a second one (The vanguard hunters serve almost the same role in this comp: grab obj, secure flanks and clean weak units).

I'm confident about my ability to choose fights and play with the battlefield 

I'm just puzzled about the big unit of evocators, 10 seems like a serious threat and i need these damages because outside of the raptors i don't have much to respond (and mortal wounds are probably the best way to apply pressure to any enemy) but at the same time it is 420pts... i'll make some games and see how they go.
I've used them once as a counter charge unit and they did good in this role, helping to finish a bloodthirster and a big unit of 15 blood warriors but they all died in the process because they where just 5 members and couldn't sustain an extended fight.

The list can go on two directions from there:

aquilor
castellant
azyros
10 sequitors
10 evocators
2x3 aetherwings
6 raptors longtstrike
3 palladors
3x5 hunters
1 extra command point

total 1990pts

I added a third unit of vanguard hunter to fill the line requirement and replaced the 15 liberators for 10 sequitors, it's less wounds on the table but with the save reroll i'm only really vunlnerable to mortal wounds, the sequitor also have much more punch in melee with the 5 big maces and the 3+ to hit.
I think the combination of these 10 with the 10 evocators is enough of a threat for my opponent to distract them from my precious raptors.
The extra command point will be useful to TP one unit without sacrifying a precious shooting roll during hero phase.

or:
aquilor
castellant
azyros
15 liberators
5 evocators
2x3 aetherwings
6 raptors longtstrike
3 palladors
2x5 hunters
3 ballistas

total 1990pts

i removed the extra 5 evocators to push 3 ballistas, i don't have enough points to include the lord ordinator with them so i don't know if this is viable in this configuration.
Ideally i'd like to TP them in cover for the sweet 2+ save and use the rapid fire (in average it is 4d6 hits with -2 rend which i can direct at what my raptors are not here to kill such as big units with decent saves, cavalry ...etc).

Thanks a lot for you help guys i really appreciate it :)

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Posted (edited)
19 hours ago, Lucur said:

Palladors are the cheapest fastest chunk of wounds we can get. Consider them as objective grabbers and screens, any actual damage they do is icing on top. Plus they look . So. SWEET. ;)

18 hours ago, schwabbele said:

I think i have never read an better analysis of Palladors :) nailed it

Actually adding on to this discussion, what do we arm Palladors with?

My thinking is that in line with this, Starstrike Javelin is the way to go, to allow them to annoy at all ranges.

The damage increase of Boltstorm Pistol / Shock Handaxe (with 0 rend) seems minimal compared to the range benefit of the javelins in melee and range. 

Edited by Evantas

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Yeah, javelins are the better choice, the melee output comes from the chargers anyway. And they look better. ^^

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23 hours ago, jeanfluflu said:

Thanks a lot for your answers guys!

I see the problem now and why people go full shootcasts (9 raptors+4 ballistas...etc) each time a unit is described it's almost always the same thing:
"nice utility but not enough damages".

I think i have good threat in the form of the 6 raptors with the CA of anvils, i have a big blob of liberators to take the center and go die for sigmar and enough cover with the two units of aetherwings to form a solid line.
I like your analysis on the palladors, and if they are "objective grabbers and screens" i will just keep one unit and forget the idea to get a second one (The vanguard hunters serve almost the same role in this comp: grab obj, secure flanks and clean weak units).

I'm confident about my ability to choose fights and play with the battlefield 

I'm just puzzled about the big unit of evocators, 10 seems like a serious threat and i need these damages because outside of the raptors i don't have much to respond (and mortal wounds are probably the best way to apply pressure to any enemy) but at the same time it is 420pts... i'll make some games and see how they go.
I've used them once as a counter charge unit and they did good in this role, helping to finish a bloodthirster and a big unit of 15 blood warriors but they all died in the process because they where just 5 members and couldn't sustain an extended fight.

The list can go on two directions from there:

aquilor
castellant
azyros
10 sequitors
10 evocators
2x3 aetherwings
6 raptors longtstrike
3 palladors
3x5 hunters
1 extra command point

total 1990pts

I added a third unit of vanguard hunter to fill the line requirement and replaced the 15 liberators for 10 sequitors, it's less wounds on the table but with the save reroll i'm only really vunlnerable to mortal wounds, the sequitor also have much more punch in melee with the 5 big maces and the 3+ to hit.
I think the combination of these 10 with the 10 evocators is enough of a threat for my opponent to distract them from my precious raptors.
The extra command point will be useful to TP one unit without sacrifying a precious shooting roll during hero phase.

or:
aquilor
castellant
azyros
15 liberators
5 evocators
2x3 aetherwings
6 raptors longtstrike
3 palladors
2x5 hunters
3 ballistas

total 1990pts

i removed the extra 5 evocators to push 3 ballistas, i don't have enough points to include the lord ordinator with them so i don't know if this is viable in this configuration.
Ideally i'd like to TP them in cover for the sweet 2+ save and use the rapid fire (in average it is 4d6 hits with -2 rend which i can direct at what my raptors are not here to kill such as big units with decent saves, cavalry ...etc).

Thanks a lot for you help guys i really appreciate it :)

Can I add a slight side route. What about 3x3 longstrikes and 3x3 aetherwings in the vanguard justicar battalion? 
the utility is nice. But more importantly it’s an extra artefact command points. And bottom of the list less drops. 

That artefact is so important to protect your heroes. Because they are annoyingly squishy. 

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2 minutes ago, Kramer said:

Can I add a slight side route. What about 3x3 longstrikes and 3x3 aetherwings in the vanguard justicar battalion? 
the utility is nice. But more importantly it’s an extra artefact command points. And bottom of the list less drops. 

That artefact is so important to protect your heroes. Because they are annoyingly squishy. 

i was thinking about that.

it's only 20points more than the azyros (which i can remove then since it offers me almost the same bonus) and i can have an extra command point and less drops.
The downside is that anvils of heldenhammer is less useful in that configuration as shooting with only 3 longstrike has low impact compared to 6.

or maybe we can go another way with a bigger group of 6 longstrikes and 2 little groups of 3 hurricanes?

this way i have the big group for the extra shot and i can also get some nice saturation with the groups of hurricanes.

i need to find some room to get all this and i think i'll get it by removing some liberators and the group of palladors (farewell my kings).
It could look something like this:

aquilor
castellant
10 liberators
10 evocators
6 longstrikes
3 hurricanes
3 hurricane
3 aetherwings
3 aetherwings
3 aetherwings
5 hunters
5 hunters

justicar battalion

for a total of 1950 pts, i can get another extra command point for 50pts and get to the sweet 2000pts.
about the artefact which one should be useful you think? most of what we have is ****** in this book except maybe the 4+ save against spells (obsidian amulet) do you have something else to suggest?

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Another idea i got was to keep the initial list and instead of putting more liberators and aetherwing to fill the gap by adding a knight incantor.

The spell is a nice plus and the auto disspell could probably be relevant against some armies (even though i think against magic specialist who cares about auto disspell when you throws 7 or 9 spells).

Also the scuicide grenades looks like tons of fun to use :D

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Here's the start of the army, most of this is currently getting painted and i'm in the middle of my big evocator's unit (got the half of souls war to complete the ones that i already had).

I'll take more pictures if you guys are interested, so far i love these models, especially the feminie ones, they got much dignity and charisma as well as great details and poses.

 

IMG_20200711_122308.jpg

IMG_20200711_122343.jpg

IMG_20200711_004147.jpg

IMG_20200711_004238.jpg

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Posted (edited)
On 7/9/2020 at 9:31 AM, Kramer said:

Can I add a slight side route. What about 3x3 longstrikes and 3x3 aetherwings in the vanguard justicar battalion? 
the utility is nice. But more importantly it’s an extra artefact command points. And bottom of the list less drops. 

That artefact is so important to protect your heroes. Because they are annoyingly squishy. 

I've been thinking of this multiple times and here's what i came up following your advice:

Lord aquilor
Lord castellant

3x5 vanguard hunters (lines)
3x3 Raptors longstrikes  
3x3 aetherwings     
20 sequitors
3 palladors (couldn't think of anything else with 180pts)

Using justicar conclave i'm at 1990 points.

If i can keep 6 units in reserve it means i can only start the game with the lord aquilor and the 3 raptors and aetherwings on board (2 poses if i'm correct).
The rest will come after (big sequitor blob and castellant arround the objectives and the rest will depend on the situation).

For the stormhost the best option i can come up with would be the anvils of heldenhammer even if spending a command point to make 3 shots of longstrikes does not seems really useful.
Maybe using staunch defender could be a another option there to give the sequitors the sweet 2+ save (they have low chances of charging anything and are there to tank punches anyway so why not pushing this instead).

I have to make some tests with my friend to see how it goes, i've never tried 20 sequitors, especially without evocators to boost them.
Maybe it's not the best but it's more solid than the liberator blob and they pack more punches thanks to their 9 big maces.

I'll buy the GHB to see what kind of artifacts i can add to my castellant to make it more resilient.

I hope you'll find this interesting, let me know what you think :)

Edited by jeanfluflu

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With the ghb changes, I am too interested in playing Vanguards. The ability to teleport our hunters battleline units on objective is strong in certain scenarios. They won t kill anything so if an enemy unit need to be deleted first, we ll need some units capable of that which I think the Vanguard chamber lack so I m adding some much needed punch with the two 10 Evocator units

The aquilor is cp hungry so I ll be trying tempest lord for the list 

The raptors are there for the aethewing to potentially block a key enemy charge only so the cheapest version will do just fine and 27 shots could actually do a few wounds here and there

The list is built around the movement phase (Aquilor ability to teleport vanguard units, retreat and charge from heraldor, teleport and reroll charges from vexilor, aetherwing move before ennemy charges)

Stormhost: Tempest lords

Leaders
Lord-Aquilor (170)
- General
- Command Trait: Divine Executioner
- Artefact: Patricians Helm
- Mount Trait: Lithe limbed(+1 move)
Knight Heraldor(100pts)
Knight-Incantor (120pts)
Azyrite Halo
Knight-Vexilor (110pts)


Battleline
5 x Vanguard-Hunters (100)
- Boltstorm Pistols and Shock Handaxes
5 x Vanguard-Hunters (100)
- Boltstorm Pistols and Shock Handaxes
5 x Vanguard-Hunters (100)
- Boltstorm Pistols and Shock Handaxes
5 x Judicators (140)

Units
10 x Evocators (420)
Celestial blades
10 x Evocators (420)
Speed of lightning
3 x Aetherwings (40)
3 x Aetherwings (40)
3 x Vanguard-Raptors with Hurricane Crossbows (140)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs


Total: 2000/ 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 140

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5 minutes ago, azdimy said:

With the ghb changes, I am too interested in playing Vanguards. The ability to teleport our hunters battleline units on objective is strong in certain scenarios. They won t kill anything so if an enemy unit need to be deleted first, we ll need some units capable of that which I think the Vanguard chamber lack so I m adding some much needed punch with the two 10 Evocator units

The aquilor is cp hungry so I ll be trying tempest lord for the list 

The raptors are there for the aethewing to potentially block a key enemy charge only so the cheapest version will do just fine and 27 shots could actually do a few wounds here and there

The list is built around the movement phase (Aquilor ability to teleport vanguard units, retreat and charge from heraldor, teleport and reroll charges from vexilor, aetherwing move before ennemy charges)

Stormhost: Tempest lords

Leaders
Lord-Aquilor (170)
- General
- Command Trait: Divine Executioner
- Artefact: Patricians Helm
- Mount Trait: Lithe limbed(+1 move)
Knight Heraldor(100pts)
Knight-Incantor (120pts)
Azyrite Halo
Knight-Vexilor (110pts)


Battleline
5 x Vanguard-Hunters (100)
- Boltstorm Pistols and Shock Handaxes
5 x Vanguard-Hunters (100)
- Boltstorm Pistols and Shock Handaxes
5 x Vanguard-Hunters (100)
- Boltstorm Pistols and Shock Handaxes
5 x Judicators (140)

Units
10 x Evocators (420)
Celestial blades
10 x Evocators (420)
Speed of lightning
3 x Aetherwings (40)
3 x Aetherwings (40)
3 x Vanguard-Raptors with Hurricane Crossbows (140)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs


Total: 2000/ 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 140

I definitely like the thought of Tempest lords as I really struggled with cp management last time I played them. 

What's the plan to get the Evocators wher you need them to be? You got the once per battle teleport and you're deepstriking them depending on the scenario. Plus the extra speed. That would be my main worry. Have you played it yet?

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I agree on the Evocator charges, it s not the surecharge guarantee tm of the hammers of sigmar so there is a high risk there. It gets somewhat mitigated by doubling up on the evo units. Cogs may be the only option for that host but with the downside of giving speed to my opponent also,  I am not sold.

With the pandemic really bad where I live, I have not tested the list yet but, I am painting them to play some games hopefully soon

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On 7/31/2020 at 4:07 PM, azdimy said:

I agree on the Evocator charges, it s not the surecharge guarantee tm of the hammers of sigmar so there is a high risk there. It gets somewhat mitigated by doubling up on the evo units. Cogs may be the only option for that host but with the downside of giving speed to my opponent also,  I am not sold.

With the pandemic really bad where I live, I have not tested the list yet but, I am painting them to play some games hopefully soon

And what about the evocators on dracoline? Would you prefer them? 

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With the potential mortal wound output,the 10 evo on foot they outperform the ones on dracoline imo despite the slower movement

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11 hours ago, azdimy said:

With the potential mortal wound output,the 10 evo on foot they outperform the ones on dracoline imo despite the slower movement

That’s assuming you get all 10 in. Which is what I’m imagining is going to be a struggle. But it’s a good point. Your bringing them for their damage output not their speed. 

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I feel like if al those raptor shots cant do it. 10 slow evocators arent going to kill it either. Raptors are super killy and do it at range

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