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So what's next for Stormcast?


Indecisive

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On 7/10/2020 at 9:08 AM, readercolin said:

I would recommend looking at some of the new lists coming out of the Starcast thread.  There are a few people in there that are looking into running an Arcanum as their wizard, and also a few people looking at running Concussors as a hammer in addition to their drakes.  Anything beyond that and you are looking at a less competitive list.

That being said, if you are ok with playing a less competitive list, the following is mine:

Lord-Arcanum on Dracoline
Knight-Incantor
Knight-Heraldor
Lord-Ordinator

5x Sequitors
5x Sequitors
5x Sequitors

6 Evocators on Dracoline

Celestar Ballista
Celestar Ballista
Celestar Ballista
Celestar Ballista

Command Point

You could take something like this, and either swap out the dracolines for your Concussors (which also eliminates the need to take the Arcanum on Dracoline, so you can swap in your Gryph Charger).  Alternatively, you can swap out the ballista+ordinator package for the Concussors, and between the 580 points there and the points drop from the upcoming changes, you might be able to fit 6 Concussors in there.  Otherwise, it might be a good idea to see if you can sneak in an Everblaze Comet.  For myself, this list should gain ~60 points if I don't make any modifications, so I'll probably be looking to see if I can slip in an Everblaze Comet.

Do the heavy cavalry like the Draco-Paladins and Evo-dracos perform better in 6s or can one use minimum units for more threat overload?   I really like the Stormcast heavy cavalry variety.  Like a zoo.  I kinda want some pallidors too.  With them I’m aiming for a pretty and fun army that doesn’t completely let me down in performance at least some of the time.  I haven’t seen the points changes yet , if any.  Not really shooty as I have my Flamers of tzeentch for that 🔥 

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15 hours ago, Lord Krungharr said:

Do the heavy cavalry like the Draco-Paladins and Evo-dracos perform better in 6s or can one use minimum units for more threat overload?   I really like the Stormcast heavy cavalry variety.  Like a zoo.  I kinda want some pallidors too.  With them I’m aiming for a pretty and fun army that doesn’t completely let me down in performance at least some of the time.  I haven’t seen the points changes yet , if any.  Not really shooty as I have my Flamers of tzeentch for that 🔥 

Evocators on dracolines I find work much better in units of 6, unless you are playing in a meta with a LOT of MSU's.  Basically, if you give a unit of 3 the charge, they will do ~16 damage to a save of -, and ~10 damage to a 4+ save without any buffs, and not counting the celestial lightning arc.  Frequently, when I was playing with them, they would charge forward, hit something, and then stall because they couldn't quite punch through.  Swapping them to a unit of 6 though generally gave them the power to punch through targets.  Now, you can of course give them buffs (+1 to hit from pride leader, +1 to wound from spell, re-roll wounds from spells, re-roll 1's to hit from command ability or celestial vindicators ability, +1 attacks from celestial vindicators command ability, etc.), but many of the buffs are spells or command abilities that are somewhat single target focused, which means that they apply much better to a single unit rather than multiple, which benefits the single unit more again.

As for the various Dracothian Guard units, it depends a little bit on which one.  Concussors?  Sure, run them as MSU's because you can hit and prevent piling in.  Fulminators?  Ehhhh... they are really charge dependent and a pair of them won't really go through whatever they hit, so they really want to be in a 4-6 man squad.  Desolators?  They get an actual bonus to number of attacks based on the number of models in the unit, so they really want to be a 6-8 man squad to maximize that bonus.  Tempestors?  Wait, what are those?  Yeah... you would probably do better to ignore these guys.

Lastly, pallidors.  I haven't used them, so I can't comment.

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6 Evo-dracos on the way!  Thank you for the inputs.  I think with this shipment I'll be good except for a Knight-Heraldor.  I might customize that Knight-Incantor from the start playing magazine into the Heraldor actually.  

And for some reason ally in Drycha Hamadreth.  Or an Anointed Frostheart Phoenix if I ever get another one cheap.

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I agree with @readercolin but keep in mind that placing 6 of them is a pita - plan ahead. So still get 6 but also experiment also. Oh and never run them without buffs imho. The insane damage comes from the buffs on the charge. I am mean 2+ RR1 with wound reroll is so crazy good. 
Mystic shield + Castellant buff is also a nice thing for them, gives them a 3+Rr1 save with heal on a 6. 

 

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  • 8 months later...

easy fix for having updated warscrolls sell more models: make mixed kits for the old units, or sell ladycast 'expansions' that can easily be slipped into existing units--especially Liberators, Judicators, Hunters, etc. They could also make model representation of the unstable Stormcast who bleed lightning etc.

the fact is, that even if the Stormcast get new models the rest of our army needs a heavy rework. I'm willing to give GW the benefit of knowing this as well, since Stormkeeps *are* a good idea of splitting them into 2 loreful playstyles.

Because of Broken Realms and Gordrakk's Ram, I still retain that Ruination is the likeliest next chamber and that this chamber might/should include Azyrite mortals like the Cursed City prophetess.

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27 minutes ago, DoctorPerils said:

For some reason, "Ruination" makes me think of a chamber focused on war engines, siege breakers and so on. Imagine steam storm tanks, charioteers, pavaise crossbowmen, catapults, siege towers/rams...

Oh no, leave tanks and engine to 40k players🤣 I can make an exeption only for skaven and city of sigmar!

Seriously, hope for heavy improvement of what we just have, battletome, battalions some units stats and point cost.

I would like to play a better version of paladins/tauralon/stardrake/prosecutors/hunters and palladors

Edited by baiardo
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25 minutes ago, baiardo said:

Oh no, leave tanks and engine to 40k players🤣 I can make an exeption only for skaven and city of sigmar!

Seriously, hope for heavy improvement of what we just have, battletome, battalions some units stats and point cost.

I would like to play a better version of paladins/tauralon/stardrake/prosecutors/hunters and palladors

Speaking of hopes: I just hope that GW has now learned what it takes to make an effective (though not necessarily S tier) "elite" army and they apply it to stormcast:

  • Higher cost per model / Lower model count (I am ready to hurt myself on this, having just finished painting a new 30-men unit of liberators)
  • Higher wounds per model (baseline goes to 3 or even higher, rest changes accordingly)
  • IF mortal wounds remain as easily accessible as they are now: a decent way to protect against those (the chaos shields: 5+ save against MW)
  • Higher output per model
  • And above all: some sort of rule to make it possible to play the objectives, either another iteration of the ogres rule or some sort of "objective secured" rule
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13 hours ago, Marcvs said:

Speaking of hopes: I just hope that GW has now learned what it takes to make an effective (though not necessarily S tier) "elite" army and they apply it to stormcast:

  • Higher cost per model / Lower model count (I am ready to hurt myself on this, having just finished painting a new 30-men unit of liberators)
  • Higher wounds per model (baseline goes to 3 or even higher, rest changes accordingly)
  • IF mortal wounds remain as easily accessible as they are now: a decent way to protect against those (the chaos shields: 5+ save against MW)
  • Higher output per model
  • And above all: some sort of rule to make it possible to play the objectives, either another iteration of the ogres rule or some sort of "objective secured" rule

Totally agreed on the unit cap, I think 15 (maybe 20) should be the max for our battleline, 10 other infantry like paladins. At the minimum, all the great weapons on sequitors and liberators should be 2" range as well, probably +1 damage or 1 more attack or MW for those special weapons. 

I'm agree with higher wounds and/or saves for a higher elite cost. Min, 3+ as a standard would be nice for those with shields, leave the re-roll 1s for mystic shield and other buffs (Castellant, Staunch Defender)

Objective secured: 1 model = 2 models would be good enough imo. 

Also, please have more mobility buffs for the infantry / or make heroes like Vexillor do more to increase mobility. 

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I think Stormcast warscrolls are in a good spot. The problem is the Allegiance ability,the chambers and Battalions. They are very weak. Maybe some allegiance like Give every Stormcast Unit within 9 inch of a Hero a 5+ MW Save would change alot and reflect more there Glory and Armoured look.The Battalions are all weak or not playable.

- A army wide 3+ save would be too much i think.

- 1 model counts as too would be very good!!

- Maybe make some point adjustments and make alot of units cheaper so they would be viable

also Command Abilitys of Stormcast seem very weak compared to other factions

 

 

Edited by Erdemo86
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13 minutes ago, Erdemo86 said:

I think Stormcast warscrolls are in a good spot.

2 wounds with a 4+ save and 2 attacks at 3+/4+ with no rend is not "a good spot" for an ogor sized model wearing full plate and wielding a blade the size of an adult man.

Stormcast need to be more elite and less numerous.

Edited by PJetski
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16 minutes ago, Erdemo86 said:

90 points for 5 Models. 

Is that a good design for an elite faction?

You said the warscrolls are in a good spot, but it seems you really meant "the warscrolls are in a good spot relative to their point cost". That's a different argument.

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33 minutes ago, Erdemo86 said:

I think Stormcast warscrolls are in a good spot.

 

 

Our warscrolls are some of the weakest in the game at this point, especially considering the lore of the faction. Immortal demigods clad in divine armor have a 4 up save, no FNP, 2 wounds, die to everything, hit like wet noodles, and are literally the worst battleline in the game (can't hold objectives against other horde battleline)?

Please. They have all the drawbacks of being "elite" and NONE of the bonuses that are supposed to come with that. 

 I would love to see them become more like Custodes. Points increase across the board, sure. Give them all a 2-3+ save, 5+ FNP, minimum 3-4 wounds apiece, 8 wound heroes, Objective Secured, attacks hit like Mack trucks, factionwide bonuses against Chaos and maybe Death. Feel free to season to taste.

They would actually feel like immortal demigods in that scenario. That's my vision for them, but I really doubt it will ever happen.
 

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3 minutes ago, LordPrometheus said:

Our warscrolls are some of the weakest in the game at this point, especially considering the lore of the faction. Immortal demigods clad in divine armor have a 4 up save, no FNP, 2 wounds, die to everything, hit like wet noodles, and are literally the worst battleline in the game (can't hold objectives against other horde battleline)?

Please. They have all the drawbacks of being "elite" and NONE of the bonuses that are supposed to come with that. 

 I would love to see them become more like Custodes. Points increase across the board, sure. Give them all a 2-3+ save, 5+ FNP, minimum 3-4 wounds apiece, 8 wound heroes, Objective Secured, attacks hit like Mack trucks, factionwide bonuses against Chaos and maybe Death. Feel free to season to taste.

They would actually feel like immortal demigods in that scenario. That's my vision for them, but I really doubt it will ever happen.
 

I don't think Stormcast should become as relatively elite as the Custodes because there are scaling problems. If you make a Liberator as strong as a Custode then what about Paladins? What about Dracoth cavalry? Lord-Celstants? Would it be fun to have Stardrakes cost 800 points? How could you possibly make every unit useful if all our heroes cost 150+ points? 

The relative power balance in the 1.0 Warrior Chamber warscrolls is fine - ie. the difference between Liberator, Retributor, and Lord-Celestant - but the rest of the game has evolved while Stormcast remained with the same warscrolls from the starter box.

My dream warscroll for Liberators looks something like this:
3 wounds, 4+ save, 3 attacks @ 3+/3+/-1/1
Shields give +1 save
Paired weapons give +1 attack
2 in 5 get Grand weapons which are 3+/3+/-1/2
Prime gets +2 attacks or +1 with Grand weapon
Max unit size 20

Working up from there the Retributors would look like this:
4 wounds, 3+ save, 3 attacks @ 3+/3+/-1/2
Prime gets +2 attacks
Blast to Ashes
2 in 5 get Starsoul Maces
Max unit size 10

Point costs would depend on the allegiance abilities, but probably something like 120-140 for Liberators and ~200 for Retributors.

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2 minutes ago, PJetski said:

I don't think Stormcast should become as relatively elite as the Custodes because there are scaling problems. If you make a Liberator as strong as a Custode then what about Paladins? What about Dracoth cavalry? Lord-Celstants? Would it be fun to have Stardrakes cost 800 points? How could you possibly make every unit useful if all our heroes cost 150+ points? 

 

I agree, this is a problem with my idea, which is part of why it will never happen. The model range is just too ridiculous at this point to try to rebalance them all as super elite Custodes-like.

However, I think we can both agree that they definitely need to be more elite than they currently are. I like your Liberator ideas, but I would tweak it to give them either a 3+ save or 3 wounds apiece. In fact, adding a minimum of one wound to all SCE units would be a good starting place for a more elite army.

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6 minutes ago, LordPrometheus said:

 I like your Liberator ideas, but I would tweak it to give them either a 3+ save or 3 wounds apiece. In fact, adding a minimum of one wound to all SCE units would be a good starting place for a more elite army.

My dream Liberators posted above have both 3 wounds and a 3+ save (with a shield) o.O

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Another thing I really want to see with Stormcast is to make the Primes more impactful. They are a unique aspect of the Stormcast army and they are drastically underutilized, usually just a unit champion that gets +1 to hit or +1 attack.

My first thought is that they should be allowed to use Command Abilities as if they were a HERO unit, similar to the Ossiarch Bonereapers.

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