New official battlefield sizes possible?

[Ravinsild]

3 hours ago, Landohammer said:

If i am having to field a 1650pt army, then I assure you I would gladly sacrifice 2-3 CP of my 17+CP to avoid paying 200pts+ in troop tax. 

What?

a 2000 point game gives you 12 CP period. It now costs CP to take detachments. CP is refunded in the detachment that your Warlord is in. So if it's a battalion you are refunded 3 CP. If it's like an Outrider Detachment you only get 1 CP returned. 

[Landohammer]

22 minutes ago, Ravinsild said:

What?

a 2000 point game gives you 12 CP period. It now costs CP to take detachments. CP is refunded in the detachment that your Warlord is in. So if it's a battalion you are refunded 3 CP. If it's like an Outrider Detachment you only get 1 CP returned. 

You do know that you  get +1 CP every command phase as well right?

So over 6 turns you can expect at least 18 CP. (though 6 turns hasn't been confirmed AFAIK)

Also, only Brigade, Battallion, and Patrol have been confirmed as giving the CP refund for having your Warlord.

Also we don't know for sure what the cost of Outriders/Spearheads/Vanguards are. Admittedly I am assuming between 1 and 3 but it could be higher. (actually it should be higher than a Battallion right?)

So personally I plan on taking a single Spearhead detachment. Even if it costs me -3 CP I will still be functioning on 15CP and can leave my troops at home. 

[Ravinsild]

1 hour ago, Landohammer said:

You do know that you  get +1 CP every command phase as well right?

So over 6 turns you can expect at least 18 CP. (though 6 turns hasn't been confirmed AFAIK)

Also, only Brigade, Battallion, and Patrol have been confirmed as giving the CP refund for having your Warlord.

Also we don't know for sure what the cost of Outriders/Spearheads/Vanguards are. Admittedly I am assuming between 1 and 3 but it could be higher. (actually it should be higher than a Battallion right?)

So personally I plan on taking a single Spearhead detachment. Even if it costs me -3 CP I will still be functioning on 15CP and can leave my troops at home. 

Yes, I'm aware you can get CP every turn, but how many 40k games realistically go past turn 3? In my experience not too many. It's pretty much decided by turn 3. 

The Detachments still have the same limitations. I don't know what army you are playing, but many armies need more than 2 HQ to reasonably function with their support auras and abilities. 

 

[Landohammer]

1 hour ago, Ravinsild said:

What?

a 2000 point game gives you 12 CP period. It now costs CP to take detachments. CP is refunded in the detachment that your Warlord is in. So if it's a battalion you are refunded 3 CP. If it's like an Outrider Detachment you only get 1 CP returned. 

 

13 minutes ago, Ravinsild said:

Yes, I'm aware you can get CP every turn, but how many 40k games realistically go past turn 3? In my experience not too many. It's pretty much decided by turn 3. 

The Detachments still have the same limitations. I don't know what army you are playing, but many armies need more than 2 HQ to reasonably function with their support auras and abilities. 

 

Ok I must be misunderstanding you on several levels.  Because you specifically quoted me and said that "a 2000pt game gives you 12 CP period". 🤨

Because even if your game ends by turn 3 then you would have had 15 CP. And that is just about double what I am use to having.

So my point still stands: Getting the troop tax removed (about 10% of my entire army) is worth a few CPs. 

Though again, we don't know what all of the detachments cost. For all we know a Spearhead or Outrider could be -6CP with no refund. And if that is the case I would absolutely stick to the Battalion. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ravinsild]

4 minutes ago, Landohammer said:

 

Ok I must be misunderstanding you on several levels.  Because you specifically quoted me and said that "a 2000pt game gives you 12 CP period". 🤨

Because even if your game ends by turn 3 then you would have had 15 CP. And that is just about double what I am use to having.

So my point still stands: Getting the troop tax removed (about 10% of my entire army) is worth a few CPs. 

Though again, we don't know what all of the detachments cost. For all we know a Spearhead or Outrider could be -6CP with no refund. And if that is the case I would absolutely stick to the Battalion. 

 

 

 

 

 

The period was in it's capped, and battalions don't give extra so you're stuck at 12 (or less) until you start playing. You can't get more CP in the list building phase, only once the game begins. 

[Sonnenspeer]

@Bayul

 Blasted Hallowheart set is 113 cm x 168 cm is 44,4x66, 1 

Edited June 9, 2020 by Sonnenspeer
clarificaton

[Maddpainting]

3 hours ago, Ravinsild said:

Yes, I'm aware you can get CP every turn, but how many 40k games realistically go past turn 3? In my experience not too many. It's pretty much decided by turn 3. 

The Detachments still have the same limitations. I don't know what army you are playing, but many armies need more than 2 HQ to reasonably function with their support auras and abilities. 

 

Most if you are playing equal level games.

[chord]

19 hours ago, Bayul said:

I am pretty sure that the Blasted Hallowheart set is not 44" x 60".

Probably not, in fact I don't even know what size it is. I know it fits on most dining room tables I've tried it on, is double sided and includes terrain.  I bought the azyrite townscape, and that fits in the box for a convenient travel size battle mat + terrain option. 

[Skreech Verminking]

15 hours ago, Maddpainting said:

Most if you are playing equal level games.

So space marines vs space marines

[Maddpainting]

8 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

So space marines vs space marines

Do you even play Warhammer? Just like AoS its the same for 40k. You both agree to what power level you are playing at, narrative, friendly, semi-comp, comp, etc..  If someone brings a Netlist IH army to your Pickup game then just don't play them. I play Nids, Quins, and DE mostly. I play against SM all the time at all levels, even for events and I never have a problem getting to the last turn.

Lets put it this way. You asked me to play AOS for a Pick up game, we didn't talk about how we wanted to play but I knew you had Slaanesh, assuming you are bringing a OP list I pull out my CoS tournament list with 18 Scourgerunners and 40 Shadow Warriors, you pull out your "pick up list" that has no KoS and actually playing with 90 Daemonettes. I will win turn 1 no questions asked. How is that any different than 40k?

[Bayul]

24 minutes ago, Maddpainting said:

Do you even play Warhammer?

Did.. did you just throw the wargaming-equivalent of Do you even lift? at him?

[Skreech Verminking]

6 hours ago, Maddpainting said:

Do you even play Warhammer? Just like AoS its the same for 40k. You both agree to what power level you are playing at, narrative, friendly, semi-comp, comp, etc..  If someone brings a Netlist IH army to your Pickup game then just don't play them. I play Nids, Quins, and DE mostly. I play against SM all the time at all levels, even for events and I never have a problem getting to the last turn.

Lets put it this way. You asked me to play AOS for a Pick up game, we didn't talk about how we wanted to play but I knew you had Slaanesh, assuming you are bringing a OP list I pull out my CoS tournament list with 18 Scourgerunners and 40 Shadow Warriors, you pull out your "pick up list" that has no KoS and actually playing with 90 Daemonettes. I will win turn 1 no questions asked. How is that any different than 40k?

Yes I actually do play 40k, but since I play a only khorne daemon army literally any army I face that isn’t well a melee army will has  been much more powerful no matter if we played the same amount of points.

this might have changed by now.

also I was mostly just joking😜,

since there was a time were almost nothing but space marines (in particular iron hands) have been used at tournaments, since they were dominating the scene so hard.

 

 

5 hours ago, Bayul said:

Did.. did you just throw the wargaming-equivalent of Do you even lift? at him?

I guess He did.

A joke that backfired, back to me😂

Edited June 10, 2020 by Skreech Verminking

[GrimDork]

2 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

A joke that backfired, back to me

Just like your technology, that’ so Skaven😉

[Lucur]

We can't just look at the table size in a vacuum. They also announced that they would increase the points costs (and substantially so by their e.g.) across the board for all armies in 40k, meaning there's not only less space but also less models. They want games to go faster. Also they see a need to give melee armies a bit of a buff (and rightfully so, melee is in a poor spot in 40k), where smaller board means less room to evade, screen etc.

In my store people use to play on the available space, but those are mostly 6' by 4'. Those are also used for Kill Team where 44" is already in place. I can't see that change anytime soon because of 10cm less being recommended.

 

 

[michu]

1 hour ago, Lucur said:

In my store people use to play on the available space, but those are mostly 6' by 4'. Those are also used for Kill Team

How? That's too big for Kill Team. 

[zilberfrid]

As someone who has Cities and Kharadron, smaller isn't really better. I don't think in AoS there was a problem getting into melee range.

[Lucur]

2 hours ago, michu said:

How? That's too big for Kill Team. 

Don't use the part that's "too big", use impassabke terrain as borders or just lay down a line of dice for setup. Sometimes there'd be two games on one table. There's nothing wrong with having more space than needed.

This morning i watched the last upload from SN batreps on YT, they just use some fitting glass covers to limit a 6'×4' to 60"×44". What i found most interesting is the verdict though, seems the table size makes for faster games but limits positioning (as is expected). I'm curious to see how that changes with the points costs reducing the model count.

[michu]

2 minutes ago, Lucur said:

Don't use the part that's "too big", use impassabke terrain as borders or just lay down a line of dice for setup. Sometimes there'd be two games on one table. There's nothing wrong with having more space than needed.

Then you actually are used to making your 6x4 battlefield smaller. What's the problem with new size?

[Maddpainting]

On 6/10/2020 at 2:35 AM, Lucur said:

We can't just look at the table size in a vacuum. They also announced that they would increase the points costs (and substantially so by their e.g.) across the board for all armies in 40k, meaning there's not only less space but also less models. They want games to go faster. Also they see a need to give melee armies a bit of a buff (and rightfully so, melee is in a poor spot in 40k), where smaller board means less room to evade, screen etc.

In my store people use to play on the available space, but those are mostly 6' by 4'. Those are also used for Kill Team where 44" is already in place. I can't see that change anytime soon because of 10cm less being recommended.

 

 

If you are playing smaller size, even with the new points (On live stream they said) "the internet grossly over estimated the change and in my 2k army I only have 1 less marine squad"

Going by 250pts, the table size is 76.619% of what it was, that means tables are actually slightly over 12% more crowded per point.

Edited June 12, 2020 by Maddpainting