Need help building a 2k list with my new SCE collection.

[TenthHaddock]

Hi All,

I was wondering if I could get a bit of help with list building around SCE. I have a bunch of models that I don't think synergies very well together. I want to make something that works out of what I've got rather than buying anything more (although if it was really key to the list I would consider it). They're being painted as Hammers of Sigmar so that's a must in terms of the Storm Host selection. Below is a list of what I currently have, I'm leaning more towards the sacrosanct chamber models but castigators seem next to useless and liberators etc don't gel well with the others as far as I can see:

• Castigator (4 units of 3)
• Celestar Ballista (1 unit)
• Evocator (1 unit of 5)
• Knight-Incantor (4 models)
• Liberators (4 grandhammers, 1 unit of 10)
• Lord-Arcanum on Gryph Charger (1 unit)
• Lord-Celestant on Dracoth (1 unit)
• Lord-Relictor (1 unit)
• Prosecutor (1 unit of 3)
• Retributor (1 unit of 5)
• Sequitor (40 models, 14 with greatmaces, 20 with mauls and 6 with tempest blades)

[LordPrometheus]

Unfortunately, SCE doesn't really have any internal synergy at the moment. Liberators are the worst battleline unit in the game. Their warscroll looks really solid on paper, but it falls flat in practice, because they get ZERO buffs. Literally what's printed on the card is all they get, unlike every other battleline in the game. Basically the entire SCE lineup is in desperate need of a rework.  

That said, with what you've got, your best bet is going to be doing your Lord Arcanum as general, so you can get the Sequitors as battleline. You definitely want the Evocators, although they are better in blobs of 10, but 5 are still good. The Incantor is an auto include, maybe 2 if you're short on heroes. You are also correct about the Castigators, they are total garbage. Ignore them, or play them as Judicators. Nobody will care. Toss in the Ballista and the Lord Relictor, maybe your Prosecutors to grab objectives, and you've got a decent starter list. 

Just don't expect to crush anyone, focus on having fun, and you'll be fine.  Then pray for a new SCE battletome soon lol.

[readercolin]

So this depends upon whether or not you want to be "competitive".  The first problem with going for competitive is that you are playing stormcast, and they aren't in the best position at the moment.  The second is that there are currently 2 competitive lists - Shootcast and Starcast.  I recommend looking through those threads if you want to build one of those lists, but of your current units... you have 2 units of liberators and a knight incantor that are used in them.

However, if you are ok not running a competitive list, then this is the "best" list that I can come up with with the fewest additional purchases needed:

Lord-Arcanum on Gryph Charger
    General
Knight-Incantor
Knight-Incantor
Gavriel Sureheart
    new model

20 Sequitors (mauls)
10 Sequitor (mauls or tempest blades)
10 Liberators
5 Evocators
5 Retributors

Command Point

This comes out to 1990 points.  You can also drop the command point and liberators for another block of 10 sequitors, or drop 5 liberators for a ballista.  But this is the gav-bomb.  The idea is to put the block of 20 sequitors in the sky alongside gavriel, and then bring them down and gavriel gives them +3" to their charge, and can use that ability twice on turn 1 for a successful charge as long as you roll at least a 3" charge, or a guaranteed turn 2 charge.  It also continues using Hammers of sigmar.

On that note - just because you painted them for hammers of sigmar, you don't need to run them as hammers.  There is nothing in AoS that ties your color scheme to a specific subfaction, so if you decided that you wanted to run without a stormhost, or with say Celestial Vindicators or something else, you can do so.

This isn't the best army.  It could easily be made better by swapping the retributors out for more evocators (use a block of 10 with gavriel instead).  But it is the best army with the models you currently have.

[chord]

Paint colors have nothing to do with stormhost, so feel free to pick the stormhost you prefer. 

[TenthHaddock]

17 hours ago, LordPrometheus said:

Unfortunately, SCE doesn't really have any internal synergy at the moment. Liberators are the worst battleline unit in the game. Their warscroll looks really solid on paper, but it falls flat in practice, because they get ZERO buffs. Literally what's printed on the card is all they get, unlike every other battleline in the game. Basically the entire SCE lineup is in desperate need of a rework.  

That said, with what you've got, your best bet is going to be doing your Lord Arcanum as general, so you can get the Sequitors as battleline. You definitely want the Evocators, although they are better in blobs of 10, but 5 are still good. The Incantor is an auto include, maybe 2 if you're short on heroes. You are also correct about the Castigators, they are total garbage. Ignore them, or play them as Judicators. Nobody will care. Toss in the Ballista and the Lord Relictor, maybe your Prosecutors to grab objectives, and you've got a decent starter list. 

Just don't expect to crush anyone, focus on having fun, and you'll be fine.  Then pray for a new SCE battletome soon lol.

Thanks for the input. So you reckon I should hang on to the lot on the premise we may get a rules revision soon? It's a shame about the castigators because I think they are lovely models, but having read them through they do seem pretty useless unless maybe you're fighting undead or deamons. I will have a further look into your suggestions.

 

16 hours ago, readercolin said:

So this depends upon whether or not you want to be "competitive".  The first problem with going for competitive is that you are playing stormcast, and they aren't in the best position at the moment.  The second is that there are currently 2 competitive lists - Shootcast and Starcast.  I recommend looking through those threads if you want to build one of those lists, but of your current units... you have 2 units of liberators and a knight incantor that are used in them.

However, if you are ok not running a competitive list, then this is the "best" list that I can come up with with the fewest additional purchases needed:

Lord-Arcanum on Gryph Charger
    General
Knight-Incantor
Knight-Incantor
Gavriel Sureheart
    new model

20 Sequitors (mauls)
10 Sequitor (mauls or tempest blades)
10 Liberators
5 Evocators
5 Retributors

Command Point

This comes out to 1990 points.  You can also drop the command point and liberators for another block of 10 sequitors, or drop 5 liberators for a ballista.  But this is the gav-bomb.  The idea is to put the block of 20 sequitors in the sky alongside gavriel, and then bring them down and gavriel gives them +3" to their charge, and can use that ability twice on turn 1 for a successful charge as long as you roll at least a 3" charge, or a guaranteed turn 2 charge.  It also continues using Hammers of sigmar.

On that note - just because you painted them for hammers of sigmar, you don't need to run them as hammers.  There is nothing in AoS that ties your color scheme to a specific subfaction, so if you decided that you wanted to run without a stormhost, or with say Celestial Vindicators or something else, you can do so.

This isn't the best army.  It could easily be made better by swapping the retributors out for more evocators (use a block of 10 with gavriel instead).  But it is the best army with the models you currently have.

I'm honestly not that fussed about them being competitive! I'll only ever really play them at my local club and mostly everyone is just out to have fun. But it's nice to make the most out of what you have. Thank you very much for the list. I will put that together and hopefully after the lockdown try it out with a friend of mine. Good to know no one cares what colour they are as to what stormhost you're running. I will potentially look at getting more evocators and gavriel then since I'm not all that fussed about the older models perhaps I will attempt to sell those on.  This gives me a distinct list of things to start painting so very great-full for that.

[readercolin]

If you are looking for completely new components to add to your army, consider creating a few "modules".  By that, I mean 5-600 point chunks of your army that you can swap in and out to get it to act differently.

For example, you can add what I call the ballista force.  It consists of the following:

Lord-Ordinator
4 Celestar Ballista's

This comes out to 580 points and adds a solid shooting threat that is all designed to work together to your army.  In the case of the above list, you can make room for this by cutting the retributors, 5 sequitors from the 10 man squad, 5 liberators from the 10 man squad, and one of the knight-incantors.  Other examples of "modules" would be things like:

9 Vanguard Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows

Knight-Heraldor
6 Evocators on Celestial Dracolines

Knight-Heraldor
6 Desolators or 4-6 Concussors/fulminators

Stardrake (drakesworn templar or Lord-Celestant)

Once you have a few "modules" that you can swap in and out, you can get different experiences from your stormcast list.  If you find that there is something that you really love playing, it can make it into the "Core" of your stormcast list (ex. I basically always love running with my Dracolines).  But the nice thing is that since you already have a solid list, you aren't in a rush to get something else, and can instead try testing the waters with a bit of this or a bit of that.

[TenthHaddock]

18 minutes ago, readercolin said:

If you are looking for completely new components to add to your army, consider creating a few "modules".  By that, I mean 5-600 point chunks of your army that you can swap in and out to get it to act differently.

For example, you can add what I call the ballista force.  It consists of the following:

Lord-Ordinator
4 Celestar Ballista's

This comes out to 580 points and adds a solid shooting threat that is all designed to work together to your army.  In the case of the above list, you can make room for this by cutting the retributors, 5 sequitors from the 10 man squad, 5 liberators from the 10 man squad, and one of the knight-incantors.  Other examples of "modules" would be things like:

9 Vanguard Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows

Knight-Heraldor
6 Evocators on Celestial Dracolines

Knight-Heraldor
6 Desolators or 4-6 Concussors/fulminators

Stardrake (drakesworn templar or Lord-Celestant)

Once you have a few "modules" that you can swap in and out, you can get different experiences from your stormcast list.  If you find that there is something that you really love playing, it can make it into the "Core" of your stormcast list (ex. I basically always love running with my Dracolines).  But the nice thing is that since you already have a solid list, you aren't in a rush to get something else, and can instead try testing the waters with a bit of this or a bit of that.

That's actually very helpful, thank you. Based on your advice I am thinking of perhaps moving on a few of the models I have to make way for others in particular Gavriel Sureheart and encourage actually finishing the army. I will try and sell the enormous amount of castigators I have as I suspect they will not get finished with no primary use in any force. I'm also considering moving on the prosecutors and the Lord-Arcanum on Gryph charger since none of your recommendations include them. I will also part with 2 of my Knight-Incantors as I forgot I have Xandria Azurebolt (who is another) bringing me up to 5 and I don't think i'll ever get use out of 5 so will part with the duplicate models. But it sounds like its worth keeping the liberators (perhaps because of their low point cost?), retributors and possibly the Lord-Relictor (as he's only one model).

Another thing I forgot to mention in my original post is that I have the stormcast endless spells as well. I've no idea if they're any good or if I should just shift them on. 

Should I hang on to just one ballista if I'm not that fussed about shooting? I'd be more include to go down the evocators on dracolines root than either of the shooting modules.  Besides that I'm very happy with the original list you gave me, I've already sorted out the models into their own box in order for me  to get cracking with it.

[LordPrometheus]

5 hours ago, TenthHaddock said:

Thanks for the input. So you reckon I should hang on to the lot on the premise we may get a rules revision soon? It's a shame about the castigators because I think they are lovely models, but having read them through they do seem pretty useless unless maybe you're fighting undead or deamons. I will have a further look into your suggestions.

I am hopeful for a new battletome this year, or next year at the very latest. 

 

 

6 minutes ago, TenthHaddock said:

Another thing I forgot to mention in my original post is that I have the stormcast endless spells as well. I've no idea if they're any good or if I should just shift them on. 

Should I hang on to just one ballista if I'm not that fussed about shooting? I'd be more include to go down the evocators on dracolines root than either of the shooting modules.  Besides that I'm very happy with the original list you gave me, I've already sorted out the models into their own box in order for me  to get cracking with it.

The Comet is REALLY good. Definitely worth the 100 points. The other two are just meh. Use them if you have a spare 20 points, otherwise, skip them. Ballistas can be fun, but if you only have one, it's not really worth it. The Evokitties will tear some stuff up and are a lot of fun.

[readercolin]

8 hours ago, TenthHaddock said:

That's actually very helpful, thank you. Based on your advice I am thinking of perhaps moving on a few of the models I have to make way for others in particular Gavriel Sureheart and encourage actually finishing the army. I will try and sell the enormous amount of castigators I have as I suspect they will not get finished with no primary use in any force. I'm also considering moving on the prosecutors and the Lord-Arcanum on Gryph charger since none of your recommendations include them. I will also part with 2 of my Knight-Incantors as I forgot I have Xandria Azurebolt (who is another) bringing me up to 5 and I don't think i'll ever get use out of 5 so will part with the duplicate models. But it sounds like its worth keeping the liberators (perhaps because of their low point cost?), retributors and possibly the Lord-Relictor (as he's only one model).

Another thing I forgot to mention in my original post is that I have the stormcast endless spells as well. I've no idea if they're any good or if I should just shift them on. 

Should I hang on to just one ballista if I'm not that fussed about shooting? I'd be more include to go down the evocators on dracolines root than either of the shooting modules.  Besides that I'm very happy with the original list you gave me, I've already sorted out the models into their own box in order for me  to get cracking with it.

It would be QUITE the list that wants to run 5 knight-incantors... heck, I struggle to think of one that wants to even run 3 (though if I had different sculpts for all 3, I would totally keep all 3).  Alternatively, you can take them and call them Evocators with Grandstaves...

I'm not sure if you mixed things up between posts, but you absolutely need to keep the Lord-Arcanum on Gryph Charger if you want to be able to run sequitors as battleline.  That being said, if you pick up another 5 liberators, you can run an all liberator battleline and save 90 points over doing the same with sequitors, which opens up a bit of space for units that can actually do something.  However, if you decide to change that lord arcanum out for another (ex. one on dracoline) then you can get rid of the gryph charger.

As for the endless spells, the Comet is pretty good, and if you already have it then I would highly consider tossing it in your lists (from the example list, drop 5 liberators for the comet).  I would want to have 2-3 casters who can cast it, but between the arcanum and the incantors you should have that covered.

Lastly, for the ballista.  While I much prefer dracolines to ballista's as far as the model goes, sometimes you really need a shooting force to go alongside your melee hammer.  For example, facing Ossiarch Bonereapers, they have re-roll saves available to them (with a 3+ save) in melee.  However, shooting them at range they don't have their re-roll saves, which means that the ballista's can do a lot more damage than the melee units can.  Another example would be facing something with strong support hero's AND good screening.  For example, legions of Nagash can bring back their hordes while sitting the general who can do that in the back, and shooting that general may be the only way to eliminate them.

If you really don't like ballista's, that doesn't mean you have to run them.  However, do consider ways that you can eliminate those support pieces that hold your opponents army together.

[TenthHaddock]

11 hours ago, readercolin said:

It would be QUITE the list that wants to run 5 knight-incantors... heck, I struggle to think of one that wants to even run 3 (though if I had different sculpts for all 3, I would totally keep all 3).  Alternatively, you can take them and call them Evocators with Grandstaves...

I'm not sure if you mixed things up between posts, but you absolutely need to keep the Lord-Arcanum on Gryph Charger if you want to be able to run sequitors as battleline.  That being said, if you pick up another 5 liberators, you can run an all liberator battleline and save 90 points over doing the same with sequitors, which opens up a bit of space for units that can actually do something.  However, if you decide to change that lord arcanum out for another (ex. one on dracoline) then you can get rid of the gryph charger.

As for the endless spells, the Comet is pretty good, and if you already have it then I would highly consider tossing it in your lists (from the example list, drop 5 liberators for the comet).  I would want to have 2-3 casters who can cast it, but between the arcanum and the incantors you should have that covered.

Lastly, for the ballista.  While I much prefer dracolines to ballista's as far as the model goes, sometimes you really need a shooting force to go alongside your melee hammer.  For example, facing Ossiarch Bonereapers, they have re-roll saves available to them (with a 3+ save) in melee.  However, shooting them at range they don't have their re-roll saves, which means that the ballista's can do a lot more damage than the melee units can.  Another example would be facing something with strong support hero's AND good screening.  For example, legions of Nagash can bring back their hordes while sitting the general who can do that in the back, and shooting that general may be the only way to eliminate them.

If you really don't like ballista's, that doesn't mean you have to run them.  However, do consider ways that you can eliminate those support pieces that hold your opponents army together.

Yeah I got totally mixed up I mean't get rid of the Lord-Celestant on Dracoth! That being said, based on our discussion I think I'm just going to find some better storage solutions and hang onto everything. If there's a new battletome on the horizon then maybe things will change and they will become useful. If not then I have a cool looking collection of things anyways. Really looking forward to getting these out on the table, been well over a year since I played the game and my Soulblight army always felt like a WHFB hangover so will hopefully get some satisfaction out of Sigmars chosen. 

Taking the comet does sound fun, particularly as I have the casting support for it and it looks like a fun model to paint. I've a lot of painting to do now  

Thanks again for the help.