New Gods for Death & Destruction

[Morglum Ironhide]

I was thinking about it recently that 1 thing that really sets apart Order/Chaos with Death/Destruction is the former are lead by pantheons where as the latter just by 1 god. So to help raise these 2 factions I was thinking it would be cool if they added at least 1 extra god to each of these. 

Death: Raise up one of the Vampires. Not Mannfred or Neferata as they already have their own rules and would ****** with the game too much, but Diefy Vlad or Isabella like how Melekith turned into Melerion. So still have Nagash still rule over all the dead-dead boney-ghosty stuff, and have this new god rule over all the semi-living stuff like the vamps, flesh eaters and bring back more wolf & bat stuff. 

Destruction: Re-split Gork & Mork but both retain their full power.  Have Gork more fully representing the giant beast side of destruction, iron jaws and maw tribes and gargants, and other big beasts. Have Mork fully representing the tricky stuff like the bad moon and spiders and kunning bonesplitters. 

Probably totally crazy fan-fictioning but what does everyone else think? Any other ideas on how to raise up and expand Death & Destruction? 

[MitGas]

Well, less unification makes for more drama and possibilities... I like your idea personally as I also think that the background could use a more intimate setting at times. Single-minded, gigantic forces that each serve one specific God/GA clashing with each other is much less interesting that say 10 much more "grey" factions working against each other. Also, while Gods or God-like beings are much more involved in here, I think they should really focus lesser heroes (and villains). Something absolute (wheter good or evil) is terribly dull. I'm glad that the Chaos God aren't directly involved, as in having tiny avatars of themselves run around (like Nagash) - I know the greater demons could be seen as something similar but they do have their own goals, characters and minds usually and are thus servants.

[FrekyDoogal]

I actually like the idea for Destruction, splitting up Gork and Mork (and maybe eventually them having their own models too), but I do not think that Death should have another god on the level of Nagash. Death is characterized by Nagash's absolute order and iron grip upon it so that there are no genuine threats from within his own faction, the extreme opposite of Chaos where they bicker with each other just as much as the other Grand Alliances. Order has that internal strife as well, and Destruction is.. Well, destruction. Death not having as much of that gives them a reason to exist without just being the other Alliances but more.

That being said, that does not mean I don't think that Death shouldn't have internecine conflict. They should give Ushoran a model and bring him back to openly defy Nagash with the FEC that he can wrestle out of Nagash's control, and having other Death factions that turn against Nagash would be quite interesting as well. That being said, they shouldn't be god-level or capable of stopping Nagash themselves - just powerful enough to pose a threat that Nagash cannot destroy without committing his full attention. And seeing as Nagash is waging a war against 3 other Grand Alliances as well, he will not have the ability to give them his full attention.

Basically, Nagash should be the supreme power of Death, and those fighting him should operate more like rebellious cells that cannot overwhelm Nagash themselves, but have to pick and choose when to fight to take small victories on the fringe of Nagash's grip.

Edited April 1, 2020 by FrekyDoogal

[Dr Ben]

It's an interesting idea but for me part of the fun of each grand alliance is how different they are. I wouldn't want them being too similar. Each grand alliances serves its own narrative purpose. 

In Death Nagash's will is monolithic and inevitable, like, well, death. This enables you to tell stories about acts of internal and external resistance to absolutist regimes (as stated by @FrekyDoogal) or explore ideas like Nietzsche's master morality or the superhuman. 

Destruction obviously feeds off the Darwinian competition/Hobbesian war of all against all. Perfect for thought experiments about anarchy, evolution and the limits of freedom. Besides, in the existing narrative for each subfaction has such different views of Gorkamorka that they might as well be worshipping different gods anyway! 

Death and Destruction offer natural ways into different narratives, complimenting the politicking of Order or unstable but ultimately predictable equilibrium present in Chaos. So, whilst I wouldn't object to some new deities being raised up, I guess I'm kind of happy with the current state of play

[Neverchosen]

I wish that Grimnir and the Fyreslayers were under the Destruction banner. I also think it would have been cool if IDK were also destruction but their associated God obviously wouldn't be.

[Morglum Ironhide]

Ok I'll concede that with Death the Mortarch's can pretty much be Nagash's pantheon, so that's good enough. I really want to see a properly fleshed out Soulblight thing happen though. 

 

 

 

[Morglum Ironhide]

1 hour ago, Neverchosen said:

I wish that Grimnir and the Fyreslayers were under the Destruction banner. I also think it would have been cool if IDK were also destruction but their associated God obviously wouldn't be.

I used to say this all the time! Orders too top heavy, and I kinda wish they would split the shadowy-aelfy stuff from order too. 

[mojojojo101]

Isn't heir already loads of other Death gods that exist as part of how the Realm of Shyish works. Nagash just likes to go around and consume them and envelop their underworlds into his own power. I kind of like that Death has one all powerful, dominating, dictator in charge, with potentially smaller factions running guerilla campaigns against him / trying to avoid his gaze at all costs. I'd also like to see a faction of normal human worshipers of Nagash who have gained pseudo-immortality because Nagash hates them and doesn't want anything to do with them :P.

New destruction Gods would be cool. I do kind of like the idea of Gorkamorka as a mirror to Nagash though. What I mean by that is that he is another singular God but unlike Nagash he isn't that bothered by anything other than your ability to smash ****** up and have a good time doing it. Sort of as close to a benevolent dictator as is possible.

[Kramer]

The thing you're asking for is irregardless of number of gods. You want more strife and possibilities within factions. I don't think you need to split up gork and mork to achieve that. You could split up their followers. at least that's my interpretation.

For example: The bonesplitters become more and more numerous, and tensions rise. Under the leadership of one boss (who;s name will undoubtedly start with an G)  part of the the Bonesplitters become more and more Gorky, while under boss man 2 (starting with an M) the more Morkey Bonesplitters fight back. That infighting spreads and spreads until even the grots fight over the dark and light side of the bad moon. 
Although a new Destruction faction worshipping a Turtle like Godbeast that  survived a punch by GorkaMorka would be awesome. And allow for a very different style of destruction army. Not fast and aggressive but slow and survivable. Like a gletsjer eroding and conquering the lands. They are inevitable.  

Regarding Death... I'd say stick with a Nagash as the absolute rules. It's a nice difference to the other GA's. But a new Vampire race would be very cool and again would allow for different objectives and intrigue. Nagash isn't above letting his Martochs duking it out in their down time. Also imagine the response (and creative freedom) it would allow for when Neferata en Manfred get challenged like that.
On second thought they could already unite vs the bonereapers. Because Bonereapers will leave no blood to drink. So they will need to be the ones that conquer the realms for Nagash. Of course hindering the bonereapers in the process will only help that end goal. 

 

[zilberfrid]

I'd love for more gods in these factions. Monolithic stuff is boring to me. Also, bring back Valaya and Taal.

[Melcavuk]

I'd be happy with shards of Vulcatrix being worshipped by destruction fire centric factions. You could also have fractured avatars of Gorkamorka pulling the Suneater out as its own distinct personality amidsts the ruling pair. That said with so few people running grand alliances these days the fact that alot of the forces are order matters very little when order themselves arent whiter than white, you can still easily play plenty of conflict between the inner workings of Order.

[novakai]

I mean everything GorkaMorka touches becomes a super godlike entity, so while he the main God, destruction has things like Da Bad Moon, The Spider God, Everwinter, and Maybe more aspects that doesn’t make it truly monolithic.

[Neverchosen]

11 hours ago, Morglum Ironhide said:

I used to say this all the time! Orders too top heavy, and I kinda wish they would split the shadowy-aelfy stuff from order too. 

Much to everyones chagrin, I keep on pushing forward the idea that Malerion is being corrupted by Slaanesh.  I think that it would be an interesting narrative to have him think that he could supplant Slaanesh and bring order to chaos, while actually playing into Slaanesh's hand. Furthermore, it would cause tension with his former allies particularly his mother. 

[Kronos]

I’d love to see the Original Bloodline Vampires Return (Neferata was cool, but would have hoped for a more singular model and not part of a dual kit). Could have these Vamps almost like Fantasy Undead Primarchs, just absolute powerhouses in lore and in game.  I can’t see a way for their being other Gods pf death without retconning a lot about Nagash and changing his whole dynamic of ego and wanting sole power over Death, fella doesn’t share well. Bit would like to see some deities crop up, or even have aspects of Nagash. The Battle Wizard, The Warrior, the Necromancer, the Nightmare, the Icon of  Death, etc Plenty of arms on the kit to represent a different aspect/emotion.

 

As for Destruction, Split Gork and Mork sounds great, If anything I think it should be a continuous cycle or splitting and Joining. That would make 3 Destruction gods 😉.

[FrekyDoogal]

I believe it's been mentioned that Nagash wants to have nine Mortarchs, the same as his Nine Books of Nagash. If that is true, we will get 4 more Mortarchs on the way, and each Mortarch is basically a demigod in terms of power and with their own personalities.

Here's hoping for a Deadwalker Mortarch and a Deathrattle Mortarch (Krell?) each leading expanded zombies and skeletons (in the wight aesthetic).

Edited April 1, 2020 by FrekyDoogal

[Icarion]

I really just want some clear dilineation of power/abilities explained between incarnate gods (Gorkamorka, teclis,sigmar,nagash, ect.) vs godbeasts, and finally other "gods" known to exist in the realms (Kurnoth, death gods that nagash hasn't eaten) 

[Aelfric]

If we are to have another God in Destruction, I'd like it to be radically different from mindless violence for it's own sake.   Not an easy ask, I know.

Perhaps a God whose central tenet is that there is a series of realities, each one more profound than the last until you reach the ultimate reality where there is no Order or Chaos or Death; where true nirvana of the soul can be achieved for eternity.  To get there simply requires the destruction of each current reality as it is passed through until the final goal is achieved.

[PlasticCraic]

12 hours ago, novakai said:

I mean everything GorkaMorka touches becomes a super godlike entity, so while he the main God, destruction has things like Da Bad Moon, The Spider God, Everwinter, and Maybe more aspects that doesn’t make it truly monolithic.

Yep there's loads.  Behemat and Ymnog are Gods in their own right to Gargants (which we'll hopefully find out more about soon).  Firebellies worship the Suneater aspect of Gorkamorka.  Like you said, the Bad Moon is an entirely separate, physically present deity that travels around the Realms.  

Destruction is not lacking in volume of things to worship, and the supremacy of Gorkamorka has not been an impediment to the creation of yet more in the setting.

[ShadowSwordmaster]

The whole point of Death is that Nagash got rid of them all in some fashion. He is more of less the God of Death in the Mortal Realms.

[King Under the Mountain]

I know at this point the ship has long since sailed

but Hashut would of been a great contender for another God of Destruction. 

[zilberfrid]

5 hours ago, xking said:

These are all the gods in Age of Sigmar ( that we know of) https://ageofsigmar.lexicanum.com/wiki/Category:Deities

I see Valaya listed as sister to the other dwarven gods, but isn't she their wife?

[FrekyDoogal]

1 minute ago, zilberfrid said:

I see Valaya listed as sister to the other dwarven gods, but isn't she their wife?

Yes.

To elaborate, Grungni, Grimnir and Valaya all sprouted into existence together, and Valaya is married to both Grungni and Grimnir. So they are all brothers and sisters and husbands and wife. It's not really blood-related, but they are referred to as such.

[zilberfrid]

14 minutes ago, FrekyDoogal said:

Yes.

To elaborate, Grungni, Grimnir and Valaya all sprouted into existence together, and Valaya is married to both Grungni and Grimnir. So they are all brothers and sisters and husbands and wife. It's not really blood-related, but they are referred to as such.

Ah, sorry. I don't have many sources, just the internet.

I do have a chapel to Valaya in the works though.

[FrekyDoogal]

3 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:

Ah, sorry. I don't have many sources, just the internet.

I do have a chapel to Valaya in the works though.

It's Warhammer Fantasy lore, which I think is still relevant here since it's the same Grungni, Grimnir and Valaya as from the Old World.

[zilberfrid]

16 minutes ago, FrekyDoogal said:

It's Warhammer Fantasy lore, which I think is still relevant here since it's the same Grungni, Grimnir and Valaya as from the Old World.

Yeah, it's relevant, and I'm glad to know it. Thanks!